• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:11
CEST 13:11
KST 20:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced22BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 662 users

eSport's Athletes and Professionalism

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
cazter
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 02:11:07
January 18 2011 00:38 GMT
#1
Let me start by saying that the following statements -likely- do not apply to the majority of Professional eSport athlete's.

Unlike most other sport's, eSport's doesn't have a governing body that can regulate player's and their actions. At this point, it's up to the players, the managers, and beyond that their teams to keep their member's in line. With that said my problem lies in the way that some so called -Professional- athlete's treat the sport and the event's that surround it. There are those athlete's that agree to an event, receive all relevant event information, as well as contact information and then proceed to take advantage of the limitation's of the event admins. Specifically, they will check in extremely late, delay their match times, and generally disrespect all of the hard work that goes into planning the event. It's absolutely infuriating and extremely stressful. Particularly when you have an active stream of thousands and a strict event itinerary. Of course, the players know all of this and because they know that the event admin's are limited in their options they continue to press their advantage.

I actually think teams are just as liable as the player's. Team's, particularly with respect to new, or younger members, need to manage their players better.

But as I said at the beginning, this doesn't apply to everyone. Or even probably the majority. I can verify that some Professional athletes are in fact truly Professional. Making efforts to read pre-event info, keep in regular contact, and maintain professional and appreciative attitude throughout the whole event.


TLDR Some player's are failing to treat eSport's with the respect and professionalism it deserves.

This in no way represent's the combined opinion's of the SCReddit.com community or the SCRI event staff. It's purely my opinion.
COO, WellPlayed.org
Kolvacs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1203 Posts
January 18 2011 00:40 GMT
#2
I can agree to your complaints, but also at the same time some people might look "lazy" but might have had other commitments.

But I 100% agree that people not showing up on time to a match is very stressful T.T (I know from experience)
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 00:43:23
January 18 2011 00:42 GMT
#3
well, depends what you mean by "Professional".

I would call someone a pro if they're sponsored to play and they represent something (a brand, company, product, etc).

If using my definition of "pro", then most pros do indeed have a governing body, their sponsors. If they show poor sportsmanship and just display themselves as a total dick, the sponsors won't be happy.

Also, korean esports has the KeSPA... which is a really large governing figure over broodwar scene and other esports games like Special Forces (...)

Anyone who isn't showing Professional behavior isn't a PRO. That's how I see this.
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
January 18 2011 00:42 GMT
#4
What kind of events are you referring to? Online tournaments, the GSL, others?

I wasn't aware of the - as you suggest - big number of (due to lack of punishment) "unreliable" players. Can you cite any occasions where this has happened, or where you got this impression from?

(god, i sound like an admin^^ - no offense )
Always smile~
yoshi_yoshi
Profile Joined January 2010
United States440 Posts
January 18 2011 00:44 GMT
#5
A system can't be based on hoping that a large number of people (in this case, players) doing the right thing by themselves. If you are having trouble with this issue, I think you'll need to work with other tournament admins to set up guidelines where players have real consequences if they don't follow the rules.

It doesn't matter if it's the team or players fault - if they don't have consequences there is no reason for them to change.
InRainbows
Profile Joined October 2010
United States57 Posts
January 18 2011 00:46 GMT
#6
I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
zimz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States510 Posts
January 18 2011 00:47 GMT
#7
The tournament runner makes the rules. if you don't disqualify them when they do those things, then its your fault.
zimz
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
January 18 2011 00:48 GMT
#8
I don't really agree. If people BM/Cheat they get banned from leagues/tournaments. It might not happen too much right now, but it will happen more as the game develops.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
January 18 2011 00:48 GMT
#9
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote:
I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.


Uh...
It's more than that.

Inversely, I can say sports are just a bunch of jocks lifting weights to jump through hoops (or run in circles).

Don't simplify things because you either don't understand the scope of things or simply don't agree with them.

If Esports was just that, the popularity would be reflected.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
January 18 2011 00:49 GMT
#10
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote:
I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.


it's a new market. It's a place where computer related business entities can advertise. A new space of marketing. The game itself is not the focus for companies, it is the audience and consumers. It's serious because money can be generated from it.
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
January 18 2011 00:53 GMT
#11
ESPORTS

also basically it's up to each org/tourney to come up with rules

otherwise you can't "regulate" what idra says in an interview and to do so would be ridiculous. I'd rather hear what the players think than "I will try my hardest" and "it will be tough"
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
January 18 2011 00:54 GMT
#12
Maybe this is about Morrow in the SCRI?
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
January 18 2011 00:56 GMT
#13
I love Kennigits quote on SotG so i will use it again - he basically said we are a bunch of nerds trying to legitimise an esports industry.. things like professionalism are lacking but i think it is because these are a rather foreign concept. Esports isn't globally at the level were professional or unprofessional conduct would really affect anything.. However, i agree there are many many small things that tend to annoy me and hinder esports' ability to solidify itself.. Tasteless saying "bumrushed" during a live cast, Jinro swearing on a live interview (i know he is swedish, but that shouldn't be an excuse).. However these are rather minor infractions..

You also have to look to people like ChoyafOu - he was caught laddering in a dodgy fashion (paper, scissors, rock to win) and was banned from the team league and received and official warning..

Everyone knows about naniwa and ESL so no need to repeat..

So these are signs of some sort of framework.. All of us want esports to become a serious enterprise but i dont think there are that many of us that want to take esports seriously.. we still want it to be "fun" ..
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
Tiazi
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands761 Posts
January 18 2011 00:57 GMT
#14
well e-sports players are human after all.. I don't think its worse or better than other sports to be honest.
"A brilliant yet deluded man once said, 'Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.' Gumiho is that agent of chaos." -monk
Kolvacs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1203 Posts
January 18 2011 00:59 GMT
#15
On January 18 2011 09:54 Peterblue wrote:
Maybe this is about Morrow in the SCRI?


After watching SCRI and Morrow like flip shit or something, he would be the first person I would put into the category of "un-professionalism".
zyzski
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
January 18 2011 00:59 GMT
#16
there's a difference between having a personality and being "unprofessional", come on now
TYBG
Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
January 18 2011 01:06 GMT
#17
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote:
I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
Football is a bunch of hooligans trying to kick a ball in a goal.

Or ehh, a bunch of pub gooers who throw small arrows into cork for a living. :')

Professional sport has always been kind of a silly thing.

Also, regulating organs in sports are usually disastrous, more often than not they end up being like KeSPA, answering to companies and sponsors, not to players and fans. This whole 'e-sport licence' they have going is ridiculous, together with whipping aplenty for players who don't stand in line. Such as players who sit down and talk with blizzard.

It's been like this in about any sport which is centrally regulated, let tournaments decide on their own sanction on players.

What strikes me as completely silly is that some Koreans are now actually in jail for what comes down to receiving money for not doing their best at a videogame. If you can make a living by winning at a computer game, why not by losing at it?
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
ZeroChrome
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1001 Posts
January 18 2011 01:06 GMT
#18
On January 18 2011 09:38 cazter wrote:
Let me start by saying that the following statements -likely- do not apply to the majority of Professional eSport athlete's.

Unlike most other sport's, eSport's doesn't have a governing body that can regulate player's and their actions. At this point, it's up to the players, the managers, and beyond that their teams to keep their member's in line. With that said my problem lies in the way that some so called -Professional- athlete's treat the sport and the event's that surround it. There are those athlete's that agree to an event, receive all relevant event information, as well as contact information and then proceed to take advantage of the limitation's of the event admins. Specifically, they will check in extremely late, delay their match times, and generally disrespect all of the hard work that goes into planning the event. It's absolutely infuriating and extremely stressful. Particularly when you have an active stream of thousands and a strict event itinerary. Of course, the players know all of this and because they know that the event admin's are limited in their options they continue to press their advantage.

I actually think teams are just as liable as the player's. Team's, particularly with respect to new, or younger members, need to manage their players better.

But as I said at the beginning, this doesn't apply to everyone. Or even probably the majority. I can verify that some Professional athletes are in fact truly Professional. Making efforts to read pre-event info, keep in regular contact, and maintain professional and appreciative attitude throughout the whole event.


TLDR Some player's are failing to treat eSport's with the respect and professionalism it deserves.


You obviously didnt do any research before posting this. KeSPA is a governing body over all BW progamers. None of the stuff you listed happens at proleague/osl/msl events, because all these leagues and the players in them are truly professional. Compared to the BW scene, SC2 'esports' are amateur events atm, like hockey before the NHL was created. People who arent professionals cant be expected to act like them.
Forward
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
January 18 2011 01:13 GMT
#19
I think before this discussion can be pushed forward, the concept and definition of professionalism should be established. All sports, even outside the sport, have some forms of lack of professionalism within their players.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
January 18 2011 01:15 GMT
#20
On January 18 2011 09:59 zyzski wrote:
there's a difference between having a personality and being "unprofessional", come on now

Yeh and the difference is the growth and future of Esports.
If you're a public person, attending in broadcasted tournaments and such then it wouldnt be too bad to concider the approach and attitude towards the other player in perpective to the audiance.
Dont flame. Stay classy. Improve Esport as a whole.
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Spirit vs GeraldLIVE!
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillous
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs TBD
ComeBackTV 1297
RotterdaM1191
IndyStarCraft 469
CranKy Ducklings157
Rex154
3DClanTV 112
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1191
IndyStarCraft 469
Rex 154
ProTech58
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11236
Horang2 9974
Hyuk 5114
Hyun 1150
Barracks 951
Mini 835
BeSt 607
firebathero 531
Larva 467
EffOrt 417
[ Show more ]
Stork 320
Soulkey 178
Last 177
ZerO 105
sorry 104
Free 56
Noble 54
zelot 44
Sacsri 39
Sharp 36
Shinee 29
sSak 26
soO 23
Rush 22
NaDa 20
Movie 17
yabsab 12
Icarus 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Bale 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe537
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K578
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor267
Other Games
gofns15150
B2W.Neo846
Beastyqt654
DeMusliM139
SortOf74
QueenE23
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH388
• StrangeGG 11
• tFFMrPink 10
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3569
• WagamamaTV549
• lizZardDota2243
League of Legends
• Jankos383
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2h 49m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6h 49m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.