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I haven't seen this touched upon yet, so I wanted to cover the timing differences in tier 1 units and buildings, when comparing SC:BW to SC2. Breaking it down in sections, I'll list the items I'll be covering.
Terran:
Barracks, Marines
Protoss:
Gateway, Zealot
Zerg
Spawning pool, Zergling
Terran:
Everything about the barracks is exactly the same except for two small factors.
1. The SC2 barracks takes 20 seconds shorter to make.
2. It can be adapted with a reactor or a tech lab.
As for the marine, there are three differences, two more subtle than the other.
1. The SC2 marine has 5 additional health.
2. He takes 1 less second to make.
3. And he has 1 additional range.
Conclusion - In a pure comparison between the two, meaning that if you had the SC:BW Terran race play against a SC2 Terran race, the SC2 Terran comes out only with advantages. Nothing about the core components of it's tier 1 play has been reduced. Also, because of the 1 additional range, SC2 marines now have much more survivability and DPS compared to their SC:BW brethren.
Protoss:
For the gateway, there is only one difference.
1. The SC2 gateway takes 5 seconds longer to make.
As for the zealot, there are two differences.
1. The SC2 zealot takes 2 seconds shorter to make.
2. However he also has 10 less shields.
Also it's fair to note that after warpgate technology is reached, zealots take a total of 12 less seconds to make (28 seconds, compared to SC:BW's 40).
Conclusion - The changes aren't too dramatic, though some would argue that the 3 seconds to get the first zealot out could make it harder for Protoss to defend against early attacks, such as a 6 pool.
Zerg:
There are two significant differences to the spawning pool.
1. The SC2 spawning pool takes 15 seconds shorter to make.
2. It also has 250 more life.
And for the zergling, there is only 1.
1. In SC2 zerglings take 4 seconds shorter to make.
Conclusion - Combining the reduced time to create a pool, and your first wave of zerglings, it should be far easier to rush in SC2 compared to SC:BW, statistically speaking.
In short, not counting zergling speed, stim pack, or any of the assorted other changes that have been made, purely from comparing the numbers, both Zerg and Terran have received only enhancements to their tier 1 play. Protoss however, overall takes longer to start producing it's tier 1 unit, and when it is produced, it comes out with less overall health/shields compared to it's SC:BW counterpart.
I believe this may help to provide numbers to the common conception that terran is stronger earlier on in TvP, and how terran and zerg are able to reach a critical mass of marines and zerglings moreso than they were able to in SC:BW.
Please let me know your thoughts, all helpful criticism on my numbers is appreciated.
Thanks!
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there are more differences than that. most of the movement speeds and attack speeds are different for example
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one thing to point out though about the sc1 marines. They don't have to face banelings that wtf pwn an entire squad in .5 seconds. ^^
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Zerglings also have a lot less dps in comparison to the other units in comparison to BW.
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Ya you cant really compare the two together. Sure marines are "better", but in relation to SC2. In BW, in a 1v1 unit fight, a ling will beat a marine (yes i did some tests). And zealots in BW (i feel) where uber half jedi half pimps that were just simply awesome.
But I, echoing others, think that larger/better maps would significantly help each race differently in the early game, and increase overall gamelength. So if the maps got bigger, does that mean all the builds and timings used now would only need slight tweaks, or be obsolete altogether?
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I don't think we should be going here. Most of these threads deteriorate into BW vs SC2 pissing contests.
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BW Zerglings dps is a lot more than SC2
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I don't mean to be rude or derail, but what could we possibly gain from knowing the timing differences between SC:BW and SC2?
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.......
Did you know warpgates are REALLY good? A 12 second difference to build a zealot? That is absolutely huge. The game is also played extremely differently so direct comparisons are irrelevant to make.
Example:
Zerg in Sc:Bw had a suicidal Anti-air unit. In SC2 they don't. Therefore in SC:BW Zerg was better.
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Are the unit speeds different? The Zealot feels much slower... or is that just when concussion shells come into play?
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zerglings are way weaker in sc2 compared to sc1. Both marines and zealots are a lot better.
Marine vs Zergling for example.
In sc2 a marine will beat a zergling with ~15hp left.
In sc:BW the zergling would beat the marine with either 5 or 10 hp left. Add to the fact that marines are a lot easier to micro in sc2 which makes this effect even worse.
In sc:bw 3 zerglings would beat a zealot without too much trouble.
In sc2 3 zerglings is barely a threat to a zealot.
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On December 08 2010 10:03 MoogleStarcraft wrote:
.......
Did you know warpgates are REALLY good? A 12 second difference to build a zealot? That is absolutely huge. The game is also played extremely differently so direct comparisons are irrelevant to make.
Example:
Zerg in Sc:Bw had a suicidal Anti-air unit. In SC2 they don't. Therefore in SC:BW Zerg was better.
WRONG! SC2 Zerg would pwn SC BW Zerg is ZvZ b/c of banelings, obviously. Can't counter them, especially with no queen!
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marines do 6 damage instead of 5? Or do BW marines do 6?
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I believe this may help to provide numbers to the common conception that terran is stronger earlier on in TvP, and how terran and zerg are able to reach a critical mass of marines and zerglings moreso than they were able to in SC:BW.
Nope, not at all. Comparisons like this really don't lend any insight, because you neglect attack speed, movement speed, unit pathing, the existence of other tier 1 units and upgrades, etc. etc.
In fact, I'm sure at the start of alpha testing, all the stats for these units were the same as in BW, and they were tweaked by the amounts you pointed out to compensate for the interaction with all the new stuff added in.
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I don't know if this is intentional or just forgot (hoping it's the later) but... you mentioned Terran add-on to barracks but failed to mention Protoss zealots can be Chronoboosted and Zerg Zerglings can be massed via Larva inject.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Sorry but this thread really serves no purpose. All it will do is bring on the SC2 vs BW debate which we really dont need.
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EPT
