EPTThanks
Terran Wall-Off
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hl2gamer
United States8 Posts
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HaGuN
United States154 Posts
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UisTehSux
United States693 Posts
I don't wall off vs Protoss because they could be rushing for void rays, and having some depots and your barracks away from your command center in that situation becomes a big problem. | ||
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tetramaster
Canada253 Posts
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Lemure
189 Posts
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
Same against protoss really but with void rays...I think stalker's with their range can pose a bit of a threat to your depots also. This is exacerbated by forcefields. You really don't need to wall off either...just keep good scouting and put down a bunker if you feel unsafe. | ||
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Battlescore
United States61 Posts
10 - Supply depot on side of ramp that has least visibility over incoming attacks 12 - Barracks (not part of the wall, build it a few units away) 13 - Supply depot next to other depot, leaving a 3x3 unit space for bunker 14 - Bunker on the side of the ramp that has the most visibility over incoming attacks With SCVs ready to repair the bunker, almost nothing gets through this wall. And if you're really worried about sieged tanks firing up your ramp, make one or two of your own. Against Zerg on 1vs1 maps, I might build the barracks into the wall, then float it off when I'm ready to put down a bunker. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Against Terran there is never a reason to wall. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:01 Battlescore wrote: Here's how I build my walls: 10 - Supply depot on side of ramp that has least visibility over incoming attacks 12 - Barracks (not part of the wall, build it a few units away) 13 - Supply depot next to other depot, leaving a 3x3 unit space for bunker 14 - Bunker on the side of the ramp that has the most visibility over incoming attacks With SCVs ready to repair the bunker, almost nothing gets through this wall. And if you're really worried about sieged tanks firing up your ramp, make one or two of your own. What do you do when your tanks are 2 squares away from his tanks because they're behind a depot? If you ever see a Terran walling off it is him advertising he wants to be contained and never expand. | ||
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Battlescore
United States61 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:07 Battlescore wrote: Normally I would have a banshee by the time sieged tanks start showing up. If for some reason I didn't, or my banshee was outnumbered by marines, I'd probably let them take down my wall and wait for them to come up into my tank range. When you have sieged tanks outside of your door, the last thing you want to do put your troops out there unless you know you have enough to take a couple hits and still take down the tank. I'm sorry but this is just a bad strategy. You're contained. You're not expanding. He has 2-3 siege tanks right outside your base (with more on the way) with turret support and probably some MM+Viking. Behind all of this he has an expansion up and is probably gearing up for a 6rax Marauder push. It simply does not work. | ||
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gun.slinger
Canada258 Posts
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Battlescore
United States61 Posts
I fully support the notion that terran must avoid being contained. | ||
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Fork
Russian Federation100 Posts
in a mirror match, marines and marauders will take down the supply depo's without retaliation (assuming you have vision) and if there are tanks, you just get your own tanks and shoot down the wall vs protoss, same can be said about stalkers and collosi, as terran, not counting tanks, you would have 20-30% of your army engaged with the enemy while the rest run around waiting for your front units to die having bunkers instead of depo's/ barracks atleast makes that "space" usable (not to mention the +1 range) vs zerg early game, wall ins make sense because you're up against an army that either has melee range, or range 3.. not to mention banelings either way, wall-ins tend to constrict movement in and out of your base.. if you're an aggressive player this may be more of a hinderance to you than a benefit, esp if you need to get your force back into your base quickly to kill of a drop or something. you COULD lift that barracks and lower your depo's, but that is extra APM that could technically be avoided. | ||
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:21 Battlescore wrote: I see your point, but a walling terran doesn't mean he's not expanding. Maybe he's going for gold, or taking a different expansion just to throw you off. The wall is an early 300 mineral investment that in many cases will save your ass. Granted, compared to zerg and protoss, terran are the least important race to wall yourself off from. I fully support the notion that terran must avoid being contained. It's not just less important...its downright bad! There's just no reason to wall-off unless you really really really want to make sure you hide your tech, at which point, you're still completely vulnerable all the stuff people have been mentioning. Mainly the siege tanks. | ||
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Edso
Canada112 Posts
TvT walls are only a benefit against melee units, if a range unit comes to you're wall and starts shooting it chances are if you don't have a bunker you're units can't fire back behind the wall. There really is no reason to wall against Terran. Walls also become a huge liability when you enter the mid game. Void rays charging, immortal sniping the depots, siege tanks, cloaked banshees ect ect. | ||
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Battlescore
United States61 Posts
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
As for toss if you build your first depo at the ramp the scv that has to walk there loses about 3-4 trips. Reason I say this is if you put your depo at the ramp you are already spreading your base out so you might as well put your rax there too. The scv goes to build the depo when you have about 80 minerals so that when the scv arrives you have 100 thats about (1 wasted trip) depo finishes you build another scv your 11th/12th scv starts to build in the meantime the scv that built the depo is not mining because by the time he walks back to the minerals its basically time to send him back as you would want to send him when you had about 135 minerals so you can put it down right on time. (1-2 wasted trips) As soon as the scv finishes building the rax you can immediately start on a bunker or depo to finish the wall off so there really any wasted trips here. Then the scv returns from the ramp to the mineral field (1 wasted trip) IN tvp what I do is my 9th scv that finishes immediately makes a depo. Then keep making workers at 12 (assuming standard play) I make a rax half way between the ramp and the CC (except on maps like metaopolis where the ramp is really close to your starting point) as soon as the rax finishes the scv runs to the ramp and builds a bunker while the rax starts a marine. At this point I have enough for a factory but not quite enough for a marine to immediately so i lift the rax off and fly it to the ramp. The rax (with possibly an addon) plus the bunker complete the wall off ( even if it doesn't stop everything at least big units like stalkers won't be able to sneak by.) Also in the case of early air units your rax can move to be safer and the bunker can salvage. | ||
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:36 Battlescore wrote: Walling isn't just about hiding tech, the whole point is to keep enemy from rolling straight into your base, terran protoss or zerg. I don't want to have my troops halfway across the map and an open door to my base. The wall gives you response time, which in many cases will save the game for you. Bunker is an important part of the wall. Some larger ramps I will place two bunkers. In early game, you absolutely don't want your SCVs being messed with. As a terran rolling into another terrans base, I'm very happy when I see they didn't wall off - and potentially dead if they did. -.- Sorry dude, but you're wrong. You want to move out so you close your wall so enemy units can't run by. How the hell do you reinforce? Most people here have unanimously agreed that it's better not to wall in vs T. How many TvT's do you see with good players where they wall in? EDIT: another reason which I don't think has been mentioned is worker harass whilst your supply/rax/whatever is building. It takes that much longer to send an scv to go and deal with it, and against a good player that can be hell even when the rax is close by. | ||
raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:01 Battlescore wrote: Here's how I build my walls: 10 - Supply depot on side of ramp that has least visibility over incoming attacks 12 - Barracks (not part of the wall, build it a few units away) 13 - Supply depot next to other depot, leaving a 3x3 unit space for bunker 14 - Bunker on the side of the ramp that has the most visibility over incoming attacks With SCVs ready to repair the bunker, almost nothing gets through this wall. And if you're really worried about sieged tanks firing up your ramp, make one or two of your own. Against Zerg on 1vs1 maps, I might build the barracks into the wall, then float it off when I'm ready to put down a bunker. Walling isn't just about hiding tech, the whole point is to keep enemy from rolling straight into your base, terran protoss or zerg. I don't want to have my troops halfway across the map and an open door to my base. The wall gives you response time, which in many cases will save the game for you. Bunker is an important part of the wall. Some larger ramps I will place two bunkers. In early game, you absolutely don't want your SCVs being messed with. As a terran rolling into another terrans base, I'm very happy when I see they didn't wall off - and potentially dead if they did. And if your forces are half across the map and you have walled as you described in first post, or worse, with many bunkers, the enemy just rolls over your forces and contains or kills you.. | ||
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