So in game 1 Ssak used the most baller strategy I've ever seen which included FE with academy to trick his opponent into going hydra/lurk when he's in fact going mines + tank and later switching to M&M + valks.

And those valks, my friends, where no normal valks -- his micro was f*ing jawdropping. I've never seen anything like it during my 5 years of watching progaming. Basically when in range of the mutas, the valks fired off their volley of missiles while at the same time flying backwards. There was no way Jaedong could kill them, cus the valks retreated back to the M&M force while shooting.

So my question is... HOW THE HELL DID HE DO THIS?

Hidden_MotiveS

Canada2562 Posts

July 08 2010 19:02 GMT

Read liquipedia article on valks
Iirc you have to patrol towards the mutas when they are in range, then quickly move the valkyries away.

I'm not sure what good switching out of mech would do though. Goliath are already pretty good against mutalisk, and the added valks will help fight them and defend your base, why would you give up your tank critical mass to switch out?

edit: I recalled incorrectly, check the article out here and look under valkyrie micro; http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Valkyrie
double edit: the trick needs some practice to do, even flash has made mistakes with his valkyrie micro.

mmp

United States2130 Posts

July 08 2010 19:09 GMT

On July 09 2010 04:02 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Read liquipedia article on valks
Iirc you have to patrol towards the mutas when they are in range, then quickly move the valkyries away.

edit: I recalled incorrectly, check the article out here and look under valkyrie micro; http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Valkyrie
double edit: the trick needs some practice to do, even flash has made mistakes with his valkyrie micro.

Don't you patrol just behind the valk while facing the target, then move away? I never really mastered this trick.

Freezard

Sweden1025 Posts

July 08 2010 19:12 GMT

I just watched the Fantasy vs Type-b game and indeed Fantasy does the trick a shitload of times, problem is he never succeeded in any of them, his valks just dances around. Ssak pulls the trick of every time so I thought there was a new, better way of doing it but I guess not.

Chill

Calgary25998 Posts

July 08 2010 19:21 GMT

If you patrol behind the valkyrie, while in range of units, the valkyrie will glide slightly away from the target and fire its full volley of missiles. This means that a mutalisk will eat all 8 rockets even if it has moved vastly out of range. This is different from the normal valkryie, which will glide forward while attacking.

The only downside is that you will completely lose control of the valkyrie until the firing is complete (you cannot interrupt the animation with stop / hold / attack). Once all 8 missiles are out you will regain control.

It's all on the liquipedia page though.

TheNessman

United States4158 Posts

July 08 2010 19:35 GMT

On July 09 2010 04:12 Freezard wrote:
I just watched the Fantasy vs Type-b game and indeed Fantasy does the trick a shitload of times, problem is he never succeeded in any of them, his valks just dances around. Ssak pulls the trick of every time so I thought there was a new, better way of doing it but I guess not.

Yeah that was the main difference i noticed too lol.

It seems like sSak has some real promise.... If he was on a team in the lower standings we would probably see him play all the time, like Action or something. But Skt1 actually has a dependable lineup lol.

Maybe in the finals, expect a snipe.

FlameSworD

United States414 Posts

July 08 2010 20:42 GMT

fantasy type b it does this wayy better

koreasilver

9109 Posts

July 08 2010 20:53 GMT

Fantasy has shown this first last year when he was doing valkyrie builds a lot. FE with academy doesn't trick a Zerg into going hydralurk either. I'm not sure why you would think that because it just doesn't make any sense. Seeing an academy would make the Zerg assume the Terran is just going standard bio, and would make the Zerg just use the standard ZvT bio unit composition of mutalisks, lurkers, and lings.

Freezard

Sweden1025 Posts

July 08 2010 21:05 GMT

On July 09 2010 05:53 koreasilver wrote:
Fantasy has shown this first last year when he was doing valkyrie builds a lot. FE with academy doesn't trick a Zerg into going hydralurk either. I'm not sure why you would think that because it just doesn't make any sense. Seeing an academy would make the Zerg assume the Terran is just going standard bio, and would make the Zerg just use the standard ZvT bio unit composition of mutalisks, lurkers, and lings.

Yea and that's what Jaedong thought, a bio build when it was mech. No one goes lurker vs mech but he got tricked into doing it.

koreasilver

9109 Posts

July 08 2010 21:19 GMT

#10

No, you said the academy tricked Jaedong into going hydralurk, which doesn't make any sense to begin with and Jaedong didn't even go hydralurk until much much later. And as it was, the lurkers were fine as Ssak's army was predominantly standard except for the small number of vultures there were insignificant compared to the presence of the marines and tanks. Lurkers are still good against biomech unit compositions anyway, which was exactly what Ssak was doing for the entirety of the game. Lurkers are good as long as bio units have a significant presence in a force.

evanthebouncy!

United States12796 Posts

July 08 2010 21:34 GMT

#11

On July 09 2010 05:42 FlameSworD wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivK2nrts0M

fantasy type b it does this wayy better

I dunno, it looked pretty sloppy during muta harass

Freezard

Sweden1025 Posts

July 08 2010 21:52 GMT

#12

On July 09 2010 06:19 koreasilver wrote:
No, you said the academy tricked Jaedong into going hydralurk, which doesn't make any sense to begin with and Jaedong didn't even go hydralurk until much much later. And as it was, the lurkers were fine as Ssak's army was predominantly standard except for the small number of vultures there were insignificant compared to the presence of the marines and tanks. Lurkers are still good against biomech unit compositions anyway, which was exactly what Ssak was doing for the entirety of the game. Lurkers are good as long as bio units have a significant presence in a force.

Yea well maybe it wasn't that good strategy, but I still haven't seen anything like it. He changed units all the time and in the end he used everything at the same time except maybe goliaths, was pretty sick.

Anyway the point is that no one has ever done such good valk micro... and dude whoever posted that Fantasy - type b video -- did you even watch Ssak vs Jaedong? Fantasy had like 20 attempts at doing the valk trick and he failed everyone of them except maybe one, I didn't see it working even once and I watch the whole game. Then go watch Ssak and you'll see he didn't have nearly as many attempts cus Jaedong has a lot better muta/scourge micro but still succeeded fuking every time.

FlameSworD

United States414 Posts

July 08 2010 22:12 GMT

#13

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 09 2010 06:34 evanthebouncy! wrote:

Show nested quote +

I dunno, it looked pretty sloppy during muta harass

what muta harass xD

MageKirby

United States535 Posts

July 09 2010 00:39 GMT

#14

yea, you patrol back, not forward lol And this only works well if the mutals run away. If there are attackable air units around the valks, they will stop running away and turn around, like Ssak's valks.

ImaginationStation

Korea (South)25 Posts

July 09 2010 01:17 GMT

#15

Fantasy said in his interview that he'd help Ssak out so that he could beat Jaedong. All the credit (and even the micro, which Ssak probably learned from Fantasy) goes to Fantasy, which in turn goes to Boxer/iloveoov (whichever one of those two made the Fantasy build). Basically, the SKT terrans after Boxer and iloveoov are worthless leechers.

ella_guru

Canada1741 Posts

July 09 2010 01:31 GMT

#16

blehk. Fantasy owes a lot to those guys, but he spins up new plays in the middle of matches.

KP_CollectoR

United States744 Posts

July 09 2010 03:10 GMT

#17

All the credit (and even the micro, which Ssak probably learned from Fantasy) goes to Fantasy, which in turn goes to Boxer/iloveoov (whichever one of those two made the Fantasy build).

it was oov

doktorLucifer

United States855 Posts

July 09 2010 03:25 GMT

#18

Isn't Ssak the guy who ended Shuttle's 12-0 streak in the GOM tourneys?

I think I only remember this because it was the first tournament I saw, and actually the first time I saw progaming, so I just remember a bunch of random player's from GomS2. ;o

GhoSt[shield]

Canada2131 Posts

July 09 2010 03:30 GMT

#19

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 09 2010 10:17 ImaginationStation wrote:
Fantasy said in his interview that he'd help Ssak out so that he could beat Jaedong. All the credit (and even the micro, which Ssak probably learned from Fantasy) goes to Fantasy, which in turn goes to Boxer/iloveoov (whichever one of those two made the Fantasy build). Basically, the SKT terrans after Boxer and iloveoov are worthless leechers.

Every single day for the past several years FanTaSy and Ssak devote their entire energies towards living up to their bonjwa mentors.
If "leeching" means going to 2 consecutive OSL Finals, Winning Proleague MVP and ranking #3 in ELO (#2 Terran); Where do I sign up?

jalstar

United States8198 Posts

July 09 2010 04:19 GMT

#20

oov has been using valks since he started being a progamer (admittedly this is 2-fact valk, just showing that valks have been around much longer than the fantasy build)