EPTTL Mafia XXVI
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious. Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth. YellowInk: He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. zeks: he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad. Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. DarthThienAn: I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic. I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do: 1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum. 2) Pardon power roles if necessary If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. Here are my credentials: Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times. I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target. I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me. I AM NOT SCUM. That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen. Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen. Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing: I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. I hope you all agree with me. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
That game doesn't count though, lol. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 08:19 LunarDestiny wrote: I would be happy just having the town getting mayor spot while leaving the pardoner's spot to the mafia. Uhh... no. Just... no. We can't let them have EITHER spot. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 11:55 Korynne wrote: I would like to point out that BrownBear made a false statement. xP You didn't so much barely lose as you caused the town to lose if I recall correctly. =P XeliN was like OMG KORYNNE SCUM except you did all sorts of stupid shit and made yourself too scummy to not vote for. =P So I guess you could say you just barely lost but it was also like, you were a big part of the cause. =P Anyway hope this post is okay cuz like, that's not deep analysis, if you read that game at the end you're just like, ohhh fuck. xD Edit: Yeah we all like to lurk and post random one-liners in games. xP No worries, just ignore us all. =P Hey, I made one bad judgement call, and paid for it the entire game. XeliN lost it for the town, not me  | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Of course, now you have garnered my ire. No pardons for you > Give me a little bit to craft my defense/ridicule of you. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote: BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post. Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. And here's why no one should listen to you  It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote: The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list. If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently. Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red. You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote: I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs.  Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up! | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 12:33 DarthThienAn wrote: As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past. I can't ever give you up, baby <3 Nah, but I'm backing you for mayor cause I think mayor position needs to be someone who understands the game pretty well, and you've proven you know what you're doing. Plus, Three Kingdoms was awesome, town council ftw ^^ | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 13:23 crate wrote: Brownbear, alright, so he's trying to get pardoner. I've not decided which office position mafia would like to have more ... pardoner is more obviously powerful in a way because it wastes a lynch, but the sheer fact that it's more obvious makes it less desirable. Upping mafia vote power to 8 instead of 6 can be a big deal too, so mayor is pretty good in that respect. Denying the town the protection and gaining the immunity to rolechecks that goes with either role is obviously huge. But anyway, I'm not trying to discuss that here; I'm posting impressions of the candidates, so I'll return to that. His plan for what to do as pardoner is, well, pretty obvious (kill mafia, save good guys!). It sounds good, but it sounds like politician-speak so I don't think it means much. Most of his activity is either his campaign post or his recent discussion with YellowInk. Certainly this is more activity than the average player who's said, well, mostly nothing of substance--having an inactive elected role is wasting the position of invincibility. The inactivity is my bad, sorry. I've been extremely busy the last couple of days trying to get a visa application out the door, but I will have a lot of time tomorrow to analyze and stuff. As a warning, though, I have job training this weekend so I will only be around in the evenings Saturday and Sunday. As to my politician-speak, eh, pardoner's not really that complicated of a role, it's hard to think of a different strategy as pardoner. I mostly posted that to prove that yes, I know how to play pardoner, I wasn't expecting everyone to jump on it and analyze it to death, lol. I'm not running for mayor because I backed Darth as a better candidate because he's a better player than me. I'm trying for pardoner simply because no strong candidate had emerged yet besides darth (the only other vote in the thread was YellowInk voting for himself), and I really didn't want mafia to get it. So, it's a bit of a gamble. I'm throwing myself on the line, hoping you all will trust me and trust when I say I am green, and in return, if I'm elected, I'll play pardoner to the best of my abilities. ...god that was more politician speak, wasn't it I'm not really sure how to phrase it otherwise though: I think mafia is in a good position to make a run at elected office right now, with only one strong candidate. I want to be the second-strongest candidate, so that we keep the elected roles out of the mafia's hands. Hope that makes sense.so let's look at inactives so far. As of MTF's post: barth AcrossFiveJulys Icysoul LaXerCannon supernovamaniac had not posted. Since, AFJ and supernova have posted saying they'll post later. If we return to bum's compiled clue link list, we have the following people: 1. TheGilaboy 4. crate 7. onihunter 8. MooCow 14. zeks 16. YellowInk 17. DCLXVI 18. TyranoS_NiveK 19. jiabung 21. LaXerCannon 29. deconduo I see LaXerCannon on both of those lists, so I Vote: Lynch LaXerCannon if the elected decides to go by majority vote. I like this. I don't think we lynch first day, though: just elect mayor. Unless mayor decides who to lynch? I'm not really sure about that. Rules clarification would be awesome ^^ I'll vote for mayor in the morning, since I'm going to bed soon. Let's see some names from the mayor candidates: who would you be lynching if you win? If you decide, like zeks, to go with a majority vote, who are you voting for yourself? Names and reasons, I want more information. Even you Brownbear. Humor me for a moment even though you're not trying to win. Let's say some freak accident occurs and you do; answer both questions please. It's not humoring you, I'm glad to answer. Who would I be lynching: If anyone throws themselves out as particularly scummy (which rarely happens day 1), I would choose them for the lynch target. If there's nobody, though, I will put it to a vote. I myself would probably vote for an inactive, both as an incentive to make those inactives post (hurry up you guys we love you and want you to play ) or one of the people connected to the clues. I have not thought much about it yet, but there's still 24 hours and a lot of posting left in the day, so are you cool with me answering this question more fully with an actual list of names tomorrow sometime? | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:06 YellowInk wrote: For the sake of argument, consider a game of mafia where we had no roles except vanilla townie and vanilla scum. It's clear that in a game like this, you never want to waste a lynch - it's the only way townies have a way to kill scum ever, even if it's completely random it is a net zero play. In truth, at the end of day 1 we do have some information, though it is limited - we have all of the posts that people have made thus far. So choosing a lynch victim based on the information we have is a pro townie play, even if it is still somewhat random. Now consider a regular game with roles like the one we're actually playing. If one were to argue that wasting the first lynch is pro town because we havn't done any investigating yet, this is implying that as the game goes on, the game evolves into a state where townies continuously gain advantage over time. This simply isn't the case. On day 2 and sometimes day 3, the town will still have little to no real 'hard evidence' on anyone. Our lynch victims will be chosen based on various reasonings - mostly that we think either the target is scum, or that if the target is revealed to be town it will strongly imply that someone else is scum, or to encourage a certain behavior (being active) so that we gain the capacity to root out the scum. It's the same on day 1 - we choose a lynch victim that will improve the state of the game such that we can find mafia. I avoid choosing to lynch someone who is likely to be modkilled because lynching such a person does not provide motivation. They were going to die anyway. As such this is a wasted kill. Therefore this does not benefit the town. Per my earlier post, I expect that AFJ, Elyas, and DD will be contributing more to the thread. If they don't, they're ignoring this kind of a warning and should be lynched. Does this make things clearer? Your logic does make sense, but you're assuming that people are actually having the thought "Today, I'm gonna get modkilled!" The whole lynch-inactives idea is really there to force people to be more active. If people think that not posting is going to get them lynched, they will post, simple as that. The more people post, the more likely it is that a scummy player will slip up somewhere - the reason why another of our policies is Lynch all Liars. Also: On June 04 2010 12:55 DarthThienAn wrote: Dude I always thought it was Finger of Suspicion. D'OH! >< You are right, I am an idiot. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:21 onihunter wrote: Beardude: I really liked him until he responded to Inkguy's attack. His responses weren't that coherent though imo, and he seemed really emotional in that post to me. Also he himself stated that it's personal between the two now, sort of alienating me. However, he IS running for pardoner specifically. Incorrect, good sir. I specifically said at the bottom of my response post that it WASN'T personal. The "no pardons for you" post was kind of meant to be tongue in cheek | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:26 YellowInk wrote: Via a PM conversation, a player believes that my calling people out for their errors and laying suspicion on them for it may appear to be a pro mafia style - at least to players who have not played very much (or any) mafia. In reality, it's quite the opposite. Even if there were no elected role, I would be going after these same people aggressively for their errors because I am town. It is the responsibility of every townie to point out when anyone makes flawed arguments or supplies bad information. If we didn't and just trusted each other to pick out the truth from the lies, maybe some townies would be deceived by some of the information some of the time, weakening the townie position. Consider the flip side - if a mafia player goes after everyone aggressively in the same manner, they're drawing attention to themselves. Such players are likely to be investigated - NOT because a detective necessarily expects them to turn up mafia, but because if they do, it not only gives the DT the name of a mafia, but also a number of people who are highly likely to be town! If a DT were find me mafia, they could reasonably conclude that it's likely that BB, LD, and Zeks are town. Of course this isn't 100% since 1) good mafia players will also cast suspicion on fellow mafia to help avoid this kind of collateral damage and 2) if taken as truth before I am hung, I could be a Miller. In any case, mafia playing aggressively like this can give the town a whole lot of information if and when the truth gets out. As such, most mafia generally have to play fairly quietly. Enough to maintain a presence in the thread, but not so much that they'll open themselves up to getting caught in a lie or give the town too much information if they are found red. This being said, play styles do vary and some people will play mafia roles counter to this stereotype, but it is a highly risky move for the reasons outlined above. This is why my aggressive play style gives evidence that I am pro town. I'm inclined to back him up on this, because it's true. I'm pretty sure he's town, given his insane level of activity and aggressive use of Finger of Suspicion. However, don't overdo the aggression, bro. You'll just end up confusing people and then the mafia can sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch us lynch ourselves to death. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Seeing as it's Yink and Darth running closely for mayor, it's now really down to who we want in the top spot and who we want as pardoner. I'm very positive DTA is town, and mostly positive Yink is, so I'm not too worried at this point about taking myself out of the running - the only reason I put myself in earlier was because of the fact that there was only one strong candidate (Darth) and I was worried about mafia ninja-ing their way into the election. Now that we have two very strong pro-town candidates, it's time for me to drop out and support this Darth/Yink ticket that seems to have sprung up. So now it's down to which one I want in the top spot. There's arguments for both. YellowInk is very hotheaded, so it might be better for him to be in a role where he has to listen to the town rather than be able to just act on his own. At the same time, putting the cooler-headed Darth as Pardoner might be good, because he will think rationally and not misuse his power. However, I think I'm going to stick by what I said earlier - I really think mayor is a role that should be given to the most experienced townie possible, because mayor also needs to be a leader. I think Darth would be a better leader than Yink, so he is going to get my vote. I still think Yink would be fine as mayor, and I think he'll be a great pardoner. Both Darth and Yink should continue to be incredibly active. They're about to step into the leader roles in the town - this means they are coordinating lynches, telling blue roles what to do at night, and it also means they'll be scrutinized heavily. We have to be incredibly cautious of a misread, so if one of them starts acting scummy, it's a very serious sign. Thus, so you guys don't get accidentally lynched because someone cries foul on you, keep up this level of activity and pro-town-ness | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
I'm sad I missed the action T_T | ||
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