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ok, i recently got done hearing a streem w/ chill and some other dude (sorry other dude, didn't catch ur name) and chill waz giving a macro 101 for new/ noobie sc players.
Chill threw out the idea (and sadly common fact for me) that when most players engage in a battle, they end up starring at the battle insted of doing anything useful- u know, the player attempts to micro, but ends up not microing well, or at all. So what chill suggested that sed player does, or begans doing is to focus strictly on macro for an entire serries of games by doing something that sounded extreemly crazy and impratical (aka noobish). he said do as follows:
1. Focus not on scouting at all for the entire game (assuming its a map like destination or hbr)
2. Focus on not having any idol workers
3. Builld a big ass army
4. Select the entire army and tell it to attack move to the enemy's base
5. DO NOT EVEN LOOK AT THE ATTACKING ARMY EVER AGAIN
6. Build up another big ass army
7. select the entire army and tell it to attack move to the enemy's base
8. DO NOT EVEN LOOK AT THE ATTACKING ARMY EVER AGAIN
9. Continue to do the big ass army thing all while teching, expanding, and building workers & supply as necessary
The idea behind chill's suggestion is that praticing this stategy will give new/newbish players a bare bones foundation on the importance of macro. This foundation is logically built as the player is forced to continue to do all the macro shit and build up their army insted of starring at a huge ass battle between their troops and their enemies troops. Furthere more, because the player is assuming that their big ass army is going to get eaten alive (as it should since it lacks proper micro), that player is begining to wrap their brains around the importance of hardcore macro, and constant unit production in the heat of battle.
Chill's idea sounds great, and i am happy to announce that i have just got done trying it vs the computer (gotta test it offline before i go live) and of course it worked briliantly. I found myself having 3 expands, hive tech, and like a gazillion units all while raping the comps main and expansions with only 86 fuckin apm in and 18 min game... of course the apm isn't really much to brag about (never waz -cough- -cough-) and my cazualty count waz kinda high, but eh, should't we expect that in Z v P nnewayz ? 
To Chill: All in all, i would like to report sucess on the idea, but i kinda can't since i've only tried it once vs the comp. will be trying it out online soon though. ^^
To all the soon to be trools: Yea sure, we all have talked about the importance of micro and macro together, and sure a majority of players that lurk tsl have already found their own way to break their previous noobie mindsets, so plz leave the trool like remarks out of the tread. This thread is only a quick response to chill, and a nice introduction to the idea to those who might want to try it out.
Ps: i would like upload a rep of the game i just played... but I kinda don't know how, and m a lill 2 lazy 2 find out :S
Pss: if this has already been posted, sorry, didn't search yet
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hotkeying ur buildings will make it easier 
that way u can at least macro a little bit if you are watching the battle
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It is great advice, there was a discussion in the other thread I'll just quote myself.
"Chill was in no way saying that scouting isn't essential he is simply trying to break the game up for new players and he's 100% right.
I have friends who are really bad and they focus all there attention on "what did he build", "how can I counter that", "what unit mix should I make" when 10 minutes into the game they only have 20 workers.
The BEST advice you can give these people is just what Chill said. Forget scouting, forget even what race he is just make LOTS of units as quickly as possible. Keep buildings depots/pylons in time, keep building workers, make sure you have enough production buildings.
If you can just keep your minerals below 500 that is enough to get out of Copper almost regardless of WHAT you actually make."
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My friend has been doing this for a while now, and it's really useful. The problem is that it doesn't work too well for Terran.
For me, I am a macro-oriented player, and my problem is my micro. My practice strategy is that I never look at my base unless I'm building something. I have all my gates hotkeyed from 3-9, and I do pretty well macroing. If I ever get good, games will need a lot more focus on micro rather than macro, so it's a good habit to get into early.
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On April 19 2010 05:20 opsayo wrote:hotkeying ur buildings will make it easier that way u can at least macro a little bit if you are watching the battle
_-_... worst part about it... i did hotkey my buildings T_T....
yea, i just gotta stop sucking on the mechanics, and my apm will start to go up. I did max a 222 (in that game) though, but thats still not saying much T_T
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10387 Posts
Jaedong disagrees, he's always microing his army. Then again he has like 400 apm
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On April 19 2010 05:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
My friend has been doing this for a while now, and it's really useful. The problem is that it doesn't work too well for Terran.
For me, I am a macro-oriented player, and my problem is my micro. My practice strategy is that I never look at my base unless I'm building something. I have all my gates hotkeyed from 3-9, and I do pretty well macroing. If I ever get good, games will need a lot more focus on micro rather than macro, so it's a good habit to get into early.
Yeah but if you're able to macro well without looking then you're already better than Copper so this advice doesn't apply to you.
It's for 100% NEW players.
I also don't see how it doesn't apply to Terran.
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On April 19 2010 05:26 ArvickHero wrote:
Jaedong disagrees, he's always microing his army. Then again he has like 400 apm
jaedong probly has more apm in one finger than i have in two hands O_o. lol
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On April 19 2010 05:29 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 05:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
My friend has been doing this for a while now, and it's really useful. The problem is that it doesn't work too well for Terran.
For me, I am a macro-oriented player, and my problem is my micro. My practice strategy is that I never look at my base unless I'm building something. I have all my gates hotkeyed from 3-9, and I do pretty well macroing. If I ever get good, games will need a lot more focus on micro rather than macro, so it's a good habit to get into early. Yeah but if you're able to macro well without looking then you're already better than Copper so this advice doesn't apply to you. It's for 100% NEW players. I also don't see how it doesn't apply to Terran.
It doesn't apply to terran because if you're playing zerg, no matter how large your mnm army is, its gonna die to 2 lurkers and swarm if you're not looking at it. and if it's vs protoss, not laying any mines or sieging tanks is auto death.
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emm, why do i get the impression that first post is about BW, and then there are some posts about SC2( copper? wtf.. xD) People please check where are you posting.
Anyway back on topic. That way of learning the game might work for newbie players playing zerg, but other races require more attention at their army, since it's not so easy to remake it. But oh well, just try MAKING your hands move faster and thinking about all at once. Also find what kind of binds suits you best. For eg. i always binded hatcheries from 1 to 5-7 ( depends on time in game) and rest my army. Some people do opposite, but it's all up to you :D. It won't work on 1st , 2nd or even 100th game, but you will slowly get graps of it after few... .....hundreds of games
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agree with somebody above me, this is great unless you play terran T_T
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On April 19 2010 05:29 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 05:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
My friend has been doing this for a while now, and it's really useful. The problem is that it doesn't work too well for Terran.
For me, I am a macro-oriented player, and my problem is my micro. My practice strategy is that I never look at my base unless I'm building something. I have all my gates hotkeyed from 3-9, and I do pretty well macroing. If I ever get good, games will need a lot more focus on micro rather than macro, so it's a good habit to get into early. Yeah but if you're able to macro well without looking then you're already better than Copper so this advice doesn't apply to you. It's for 100% NEW players. I also don't see how it doesn't apply to Terran.
As a terran... (and therefore once a noob terran)
I can easily tell you that a big terran army vs big (other) army is virtually worthless without micro. If you don't siege your tanks properly, plant your mines, stim your marines, pull M&M back from lurkers, you're GUARANTEED to epic fail against both zerg & toss.
I'd say that this strategy is perfect for noob Protoss (or for any freaking protoss, it's natural for them), and very good for noob Zerg (good for ling/ultra or a good combination of units), and pretty doomed for Terran. Only if you had a strong sense of Mech can this strategy actually get you anywhere... but noob Terran & Mech don't go well together at all.
Of course, some might say that that's not the point; the point is to teach macro, and to get a habit of getting constant production. This is somewhat true... except you won't be winning anything, and you'll be developing a potentially bad habit of not keeping track of your very fragile terran units. Pumping units like Oov is only worth it when you've got the battle micro to keep them alive. Having said that, if you're not terran, this is a fantastic strat for you.
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Where was this aforementioned video posted? I'd love to watch it as my macro could definitely use some work, and I'd definitely like to thry this out =D
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On April 19 2010 05:42 Wings wrote:
Only if you had a strong sense of Mech can this strategy actually get you anywhere... but noob Terran & Mech don't go well together at all.
XDD
but yea, i must say this in defense of the attack move macro start: Eventhough i consciencely tould myself to foucs strictly on building units and attack moving them all over the opponent, i did find myself able to manage moving lurks in positions where they needed to be put. Though the purpose of this strat is to make you macro, and it waz clearly stated that you "DON'T EVER LOOK AT THE UNITS AGAIN" Naturally players would like to see how their units are doing in the fight and skadaddle themselves over the battle for brief moments, and then strait back 2 macro.
Yes i know the literal purpose of this strat (hell, i'm the one who interperted it into the post- no i'm not bragging about that), but underneath the literal purpupose, i think the goal chill wanted us to get at was that your time would be better spent pokeing at ur macro rather than staring at ur units dying in battle. I feel that chill didn't mean stupidly send ur siege tanks strait to ur opponents base, never to siege at all, or to send ur vultures full of mines, never to plant them; thats not at all what he waz saying.
I will say this however: I do see that is what my earlier interpertation implied that "yea, u should attack move unburrowed lurkers and defilers and never use them smartly" and i'm sorry for that, but come one guyz seriously, that waz kinda common sense. o_o;
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On April 19 2010 05:42 Wings wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 05:29 Klive5ive wrote:On April 19 2010 05:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
My friend has been doing this for a while now, and it's really useful. The problem is that it doesn't work too well for Terran.
For me, I am a macro-oriented player, and my problem is my micro. My practice strategy is that I never look at my base unless I'm building something. I have all my gates hotkeyed from 3-9, and I do pretty well macroing. If I ever get good, games will need a lot more focus on micro rather than macro, so it's a good habit to get into early. Yeah but if you're able to macro well without looking then you're already better than Copper so this advice doesn't apply to you. It's for 100% NEW players. I also don't see how it doesn't apply to Terran. As a terran... (and therefore once a noob terran) I can easily tell you that a big terran army vs big (other) army is virtually worthless without micro. If you don't siege your tanks properly, plant your mines, stim your marines, pull M&M back from lurkers, you're GUARANTEED to epic fail against both zerg & toss. I'd say that this strategy is perfect for noob Protoss (or for any freaking protoss, it's natural for them), and very good for noob Zerg (good for ling/ultra or a good combination of units), and pretty doomed for Terran. Only if you had a strong sense of Mech can this strategy actually get you anywhere... but noob Terran & Mech don't go well together at all. Of course, some might say that that's not the point; the point is to teach macro, and to get a habit of getting constant production. This is somewhat true... except you won't be winning anything, and you'll be developing a potentially bad habit of not keeping track of your very fragile terran units. Pumping units like Oov is only worth it when you've got the battle micro to keep them alive. Having said that, if you're not terran, this is a fantastic strat for you.
I can't see this working at even D level as Zerg (if we're talking about Brood War). ZvT without micro? Only strategies I see as even possible for that is ling all-in or 2 base ultra, neither of which is good for practicing your macro.
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On April 19 2010 06:03 nik_0_0 wrote:
Where was this aforementioned video posted? I'd love to watch it as my macro could definitely use some work, and I'd definitely like to thry this out =D
O_O; well if ur saying this in refrence to my inintial post, then yea, i kinda never promised to post a vid... and even if i did, turst me, it wouldn't help nneyone much -_-;
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dont try this in TvZ, kids, unless you want your opponent to get 40-kill lurkers
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@hyst.eric.al
plz read 4 post above mine (yes, counting urs directly above this one)
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sauron zerg!
this wont work at all for terran lol, maybe for toss, and definitely for zerg (conga line of zerglings anyone?)
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EPT
