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I have played a few games where I tried this out, mostly for a little fun, but I think in the right hands or after enough practice and testing it could turn into some interesting cheese tactics.
Basically it is a Proxy Creep Tumor via Hatchery cancel. When you cancel your Hatchery, it leaves about a 3 x 3 patch of creep that your queen can then put a tumor on.
The drone can then start a proxy spine crawler, and you can transfer more drones to add to the forward spine crawler proxy, OR you can just use the proxy tumor to block an expo, forcing the other player to get detection to get their expo there.
Maps with long distances for your queen to run would make this cheese very unsuccessful.
Has anyone else tried anything like this?
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^ that's completely different from what the OP is doing.
interesting post, i'm not sure how viable it is -- can you give specific map examples? -- given how many injects you'll be missing in the early/ early midgame periods that you'd like to block expos with via creep. but if you have any examples it'd change my mind. either way, creative thinking is always great to see.
e-- So, one question, if you make a hatchery, immediately cancel, you get this 3x3 creep to build a crawler or tumor on? How many minerals are lost to a cancel?
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No, that lets the hatchery finish. Mine makes use of a Queen and a canceled hatchery.
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I'm not sure on how many minerals are lost to canceling, but yeah, you can build a hatchery, cancel, and put down a crawler immediately (i think I did that at least once, sorry if I'm wrong) Problem is it will take damage from having no creep and slowly die. I will have to test that out though.
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Do you bring an overlord to spew creep on top after? Don't zerg structures slowly die without a hatchery nearby?
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On April 17 2010 20:44 P00RKID wrote:No, that lets the hatchery finish. Mine makes use of a Queen and a canceled hatchery.
you asked if anyone tried anything similar... that's pretty similar....
getting creep near opponent's base, and build spine crawlers
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Why are you usin the hatchery cancel at all? Why not just have an overlord spawn creep there, place a tumor and then build spine crawlers?
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On April 17 2010 20:49 SarcasticOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:44 P00RKID wrote:No, that lets the hatchery finish. Mine makes use of a Queen and a canceled hatchery. you asked if anyone tried anything similar... that's pretty similar.... getting creep near opponent's base, and build spine crawlers
Ok yeah that is similar, but I actually meant something that involved Hatchery canceling to generate creep, or anything involving proxy Creep Tumors.
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On April 17 2010 20:51 Konni wrote:
Why are you usin the hatchery cancel at all? Why not just have an overlord spawn creep there, place a tumor and then build spine crawlers?
Overlord spawn creep is t2? This can be done at any time.
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On April 17 2010 20:51 Konni wrote:
Why are you usin the hatchery cancel at all? Why not just have an overlord spawn creep there, place a tumor and then build spine crawlers?
that is tier2, this is if you want to do something really early game before you tech i suppose
some kind of creep tumor -> spine crawler rush!? :p
2 drones+queen on the way, drone 1 hatchery->cancel->spine crawler, drone2 waits, queen arrives, hatchery->cancel->tumor on space, hatchery->cancel->crawler
2 crawlers + creep tumor for the price of 2 cancelled hatches and queen travel time in the early game, for a very invested rush. that's one use i can think of.
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Dropping creep is only viable with lair. This kind of cheese doesnt make any sense so late into the game with overlords.
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On April 17 2010 20:48 Makica wrote:
Do you bring an overlord to spew creep on top after? Don't zerg structures slowly die without a hatchery nearby?
In that game, yeah, I did, to block his expo on the high ground. Yeah, zerg structures die slowly without creep, but they don't require a hatchery nearby.
On April 17 2010 20:51 Konni wrote:
Why are you usin the hatchery cancel at all? Why not just have an overlord spawn creep there, place a tumor and then build spine crawlers?
Because this can be done before Lair Tech. On a map like Steppes of War for example, you could get a queen to his natural fairly quickly, and instead of waiting for a Hatchery to finish completely, you could just plop a hatch, cancel, put up a tumor, and then just leave, or you could build proxy crawlers.
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Yeah, some of you without beta keys or any knowledge need to please cease posting before consulting sc2 armory. I think a lot of misinformation is spread this way;
1. Creep can only be spread by buildings, and creep tumors tier 1. By using a cancelled hatch, you're left with a patch so basically paying 75 minerals for the patch which isn't awful actually. So this way you'd be able to push with a few crawlers early to stop expo and potentially push.
2. Creep can be generated by overlords tier 2. You can use the same mechanics and just put down a tumor instead of spending the 75 minerals but are spine crawlers still useful? Depends one where you are in the game.
A proxy hatch with queens and sunkens pushing forward wouldn't be a terrible idea if you're on the offensive but at the same time you could just put a hatch down at another base so don't know how viable it is.
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I think it has its best potential vs Protoss, as they tend to wall + tech to robo. Spines at your front door + lings could potentially work, but I like this as more of an expo denial trick with potential of crawler cheese if you want to end it quick.
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Like this a lot. . .
Do you know off hand how much Mineral you lose to cancel a Hatch?
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I will definitely try this on Blistering Sands vs those pesky complete wall ins that toss do :p
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I don't have beta(will if I get 1 of those 50 new keys)so I don't have much experience but I have watched 1000+ vods of SCII(I tallied). I think this is a great idea except for 1 problem.
Remember how people used to try burrowing lings in ZvT to block expos and some people said to fix that with 1 firebat and have it shoot a unit(tank for existence) exactly where they thought the ling was? You can do the same thing with this idea except instead you use the hellion which is much more effective and will completely negate the tumor. If I saw a few reps/vods of this to see exactly how you implement this idea I would be able to comment on this far more accurately.
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On April 17 2010 20:49 SarcasticOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:44 P00RKID wrote:No, that lets the hatchery finish. Mine makes use of a Queen and a canceled hatchery. you asked if anyone tried anything similar... that's pretty similar.... getting creep near opponent's base, and build spine crawlers
there's a huge difference between investing 300 minerals + build time vs 75 materials and a an extra queen. so they're not similar. and you're an idiot
edit: sigh
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On April 17 2010 21:26 3FFA wrote:
I don't have beta(will if I get 1 of those 50 new keys)so I don't have much experience but I have watched 1000+ vods of SCII(I tallied). I think this is a great idea except for 1 problem.
Remember how people used to try burrowing lings in ZvT to block expos and some people said to fix that with 1 firebat and have it shoot a unit(tank for existence) exactly where they thought the ling was? You can do the same thing with this idea except instead you use the hellion which is much more effective and will completely negate the tumor. If I saw a few reps/vods of this to see exactly how you implement this idea I would be able to comment on this far more accurately.
If you really want to block the expo, you could literally cover the entire spot with tumors. There is no way you're going to do that kind of micro to kill a 5x5 patch of tumors.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://j.imagehost.org/t/0507/dronecheese.jpg)
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