|
I played some ICC today on HBR and Protosses play extremely cheesy and if nothing else, they will steal the gas. They even do that sneeky move Nony made against Idra, where they don't go near other terran buildings, so you can't possibly react in time. (this happens on 9 o'clock on HBR, while on 3 o'clock, the gas is on a silver plate)
So after getting annoyed unnecessarily, I came up with a solid solution that requires almost no sacrifice, and honestly I'm surprised noone popularized this build sooner.
I'm not one of the players that learns their BO to the letter, but as far as I know, almost all standard TvP openings have the same beginning:
9supply
11barracks 11 gas (when you have 250 minerals, you build them at the same time)
If you're a terran player, you know that:
1) there's a period of around 1-2 seconds where you're supply blocked while you're waiting for the first supply to finish
2) you have quite a few minerals in the bank before you start making the Barracks + Refinery
The alternation I made is making the Refinery at 10. The key is to NOT queue the 11th SCV until the supply finishes, you're going to need those 50minerals and the SCV isn't going to start building anyway due to the mentioned supply block. You'll see that you can make the Refinery without any problems at 10 supply. What next? Right after the Refinery starts building, you press ESC while your SCV is still selected and send it to the minerals right away. That way you don't lose the important mining time which is the usual downside of protecting the gas like this. Your supply should finish in the next few seconds, and you produce the 11th SCV normally.
When you get the next 150 minerals, build the Barracks and resume the Refinery construction. Remember not to get carried away and make the 12th SCV before the barracks coz then the build is not the same as the original 11rax11gas anymore.
RESULTS:
- gas is protected relatively early, I'm pretty sure it's safe against normal scout after 1st pylon on a map like HBR
- almost no mining time is lost, at most 1 round of mining of 1 SCV(8minerals)
Is this the next standard opening?
I wonder what TL terrans think, both newbies and experienced guys. So, your comments?
|
some plays 10 rax 10 gas. not standard whatsoever because gas before rax is kinda really bad vs proxy play. i would say get use to getting your gas stolen and baracks expand which puts you ahead.
|
You didn't read the post. If you do it the way I said, it's almost identical to 11rax11gas. read!
|
I always go 11/11 and just take the gas at 100 then take the SCV off it and use it to attack the probe if I see it coming in really early for the gayness.
Yeah, exactly this, been doing it for quite some time ^^
On February 25 2010 09:11 foppa wrote:
some plays 10 rax 10 gas. not standard whatsoever because gas before rax is kinda really bad vs proxy play. i would say get use to getting your gas stolen and baracks expand which puts you ahead.
Except it's really gay when you have to sit there repairing your bunker forever against mad goons while waiting for your tank to come out.
|
This sounds feasible.. just a lil extra micro.. i dont see why not =p
good job!
|
I think that's an absolutely fantastic idea for anyone playing TvP on a 2-player map. Very hot.
|
This is definitely pretty solid, especially since you'd be getting the refinery soon anyway.
I can see this being a good play if you anticipate you're opponent doing some sort of cheese, which is preceeded by a gas steal, but if you don't scout any kind of cheese or proxy rush, expanding after a gas steal is still better because it puts your opponent behind, whereas your idea keeps you and you opponent basically even.
|
On February 25 2010 09:18 jello_biafra wrote:
Yeah, exactly this, been doing it for quite some time ^^
I started doing it every TvP just today.
usually, I'd get my gas early only if I see the probe, and I'd feel all guilty and pwned coz he forced me to mess up my build.
This way, you get an equilibrium solution and you frankly don't give a fuck if he's going for the steal or not, it doesn't cost you anything.
|
On February 25 2010 09:33 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 09:18 jello_biafra wrote:
Yeah, exactly this, been doing it for quite some time ^^ I started doing it every TvP just today. usually, I'd get my gas early only if I see the probe, and I'd feel all guilty and pwned coz he forced me to mess up my build. This way, you get an equilibrium solution and you frankly don't give a fuck if he's going for the steal or not, it doesn't cost you anything.
Indeed, it is an excellent solution, my friend does it every TvP regardless now, I sometimes do it just in case but generally I'll only do it when I see the probe appear, gotta be quick though ^^
|
Common sense is ground breaking stuff. I hope that most Terrans that don't want to play a game after a gas steal play similar to this or else that's kinda sad.
|
Nice trick.
It would be more useful in destination I suppose. In HBR you can actually wall your entrance as early as the supply finished.
If you notice a probe passing by the supply you get a gas first, no sweat.
Awesome finding, though 
|
I don't really agree with this strategy. Even if it's just 8 minerals, it's 1-2 seconds sooner of a tank you are missing out on if your opponent does not attempt a gas steal. I'd say this is a solid strategy if you happen to spot a probe, but otherwise, optimize optimize optimize!
|
2 things:
if you know gas steal is coming, of course you do this. there's no reason to do it otherwise. assuming you're walling, you'll see it in time...
you generally want to gas on 12, not 11 (or at least for an economical build)
|
My solution on hbr is just to wall? You can't miss the probe then, and you can do 11rax12gas or 12/12 if you are so enclined. This seems good if you are going to 11/11 but I don't 
Maybe I should stop doing 12/12? I don't really pay attention to the early-early game at high levels.
|
You don't have to block, you can just make a supply depot that gives you vision of your entrance so you can react in time to take your geyser.
|
On February 25 2010 09:56 huameng wrote:My solution on hbr is just to wall? You can't miss the probe then, and you can do 11rax12gas or 12/12 if you are so enclined. This seems good if you are going to 11/11 but I don't Maybe I should stop doing 12/12? I don't really pay attention to the early-early game at high levels.
This is pretty much my opinion, except more confident that I'd rather go 12/12.
|
On February 25 2010 09:55 love1another wrote:
I don't really agree with this strategy. Even if it's just 8 minerals, it's 1-2 seconds sooner of a tank you are missing out on if your opponent does not attempt a gas steal. I'd say this is a solid strategy if you happen to spot a probe, but otherwise, optimize optimize optimize!
I can't imagine 1-2 seconds determining very many games at the D/C levels.
|
|
|
On February 25 2010 09:56 Pokebunny wrote:
you generally want to gas on 12, not 11 (or at least for an economical build)
That's why you delay the rax and make it at the same time as the refinery at 250 minerals, for SUPREME economical build you want 12/12 at 250.
|
On February 25 2010 09:55 love1another wrote:
I don't really agree with this strategy. Even if it's just 8 minerals, it's 1-2 seconds sooner of a tank you are missing out on if your opponent does not attempt a gas steal. I'd say this is a solid strategy if you happen to spot a probe, but otherwise, optimize optimize optimize!
Heh, I actually did try to optimize optimize optimize, but then in all that optimization, you realize that you could've fared much better over a course of 100 games if you did this build every time. Playing on the very edge is never good(unless you're playing vs a superior player and going all-in or something). This build is like 99.90% optimized, and if you go for a 100% optimized build, and you lose the gas, suddenly you're at 65% lol
This is the Nash Equilibrium of early TvP gas battle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
