Mini Mafia 2
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 05 2010 16:52 Vivi57 wrote: I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity. Hm. Scamp doesn't post much, but what he does post is usually telling, in my experience. Since all we have on day 1 for choosing a Lynch target is behavioral analysis, I'd rather go after the people who are 'immune' to behavioral analysis. And by this, I mean Chezinu. Usually, all he posts are random references to 'Ace' and 'Brown', and his comments are completely unrelated to the game, its players, its roles, suggested courses of action, etc. That is, in fact, a valid mafia strategy- say a lot of shit so people don't peg you down for being inactive, but never commit to saying something relevant so that you won't be called out for something you said. As it is, the only way for the Town to ever determine his role directly will be through a DT, which I'd rather use on some other big-name players instead (L, Ace). Leaning: Lynch Chezinu Then, there's the matter of our other night roles: DTs, Medics, Vigis. DTs should definitely check out the big-name players. For me, these are: Ace, L. They're basically a big boon in terms of post quality, behavioral analysis and Town leadership if they're Townies, so it's a good idea to see whether we should be rallying around them early or not. And if they're mafia... we'll want them lynched ASAP. Oh, and do remember the Godfather won't show up as mafia in a RC; if a RC comes up Red, the DT knows with 100% certainty that player's mafia. If it doesn't come up red, the DT does not know with 100% certainty whether that player's mafia or not. Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime. On a final note: Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11. Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on? | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote: I guess the evidence points to killing Vivi. What evidence are you talking about? If it's, "He accused me so I'll accuse him", that's not valid in my book- it leads to Town infighting most of the time, which benefits none but the mafia. If you get accused / suggested for lynching, it's just that. Defend yourself; if we deem you to be innocent / not worth lynching, you'll live. Otherwise, you'll die. Starting a public flame war with another player is not the correct reaction to being suggested for lynching. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote: I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays). I never said it was easy for the rest of us to determine whether he's lying or not. But, seen from the point of view of someone who IS town-aligned, I can see how that person would want to jump into the limelight and assume a leadership role. Lurking or erring on the side of caution will just let someone else take the reins of leadership- why risk having mafia set the floor for the discussion, when you can do it yourself? It makes sense to me. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote: -I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red. -For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat. - Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side. I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 07 2010 01:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Zato, I agree kind of. In any other person I think it would be suspicious. I can agree L is saying some stuff I do agree with, however Judge is acting like a retard/mafia. The stuff he is doing just does not benefit us. You are actually essentially using the same mentality is him. Guilt by association, just because I said something about Scamp doesn't mean we are friends and on the same note just because he mentioned them I don't think they are mafia if he is, but you are saying we should kill him because then it casts doubt on the two others. This is the same logic he just used on me and Scamp which you just disagreed with. I honestly just think hes being a dumb townie. However that post is also from when I had not really said anything and Scamp hadn't really either. If we believe in lynching inactives to make mafia post or die then he chose two decent candidates, me having not posted anything and scamp having not really posted much. The only thing I posted was kind of in scamp's defense. I am sure Malongo would change his mind now when he rereads the thread. That post is from at least one page ago and kind of just looks like you are trying to save Judge from having made a bad move. I don't particularly care for Judge. He may very well be mafia. I just don't think it's a good decision to lynch him right now, because there are more likely mafia candidates. After night 1 comes and goes I hope to have a bit more clarity regarding him. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote: I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy. Well, this is how I see it. Judge says he has a plan. In my experience from previous games, when people say they have a plan but don't want to reveal it just yet, what they usually mean is, "I'm bluffing, so just trust me, m'kay?" I have little reason to believe it will be different this time. This does not, however, imply that Judge is mafia. He's been far too conspicuous, and for what? Wasting a DT role check? I wouldn't even check him. Anyone that comes up as anything other than a standard mafia thug could be the Godfather, so really, the best use for RCs is to try to confirm suspected mafia members. Everyone here seems to agree that he's either a) A medic, B) The Godfather, or C) A Vet trying to take a hit. So, yeah- chances are he won't show up as a regular mafia thug, and thus wouldn't even waste a DT check if the DT is smart. Or hey, Judge could be telling the truth and actually be a medic. Mafia will be happy to jump on the "He's generally suspicious, so lynch him" bandwagon in that case. I'm not saying he's innocent- that I can't know. What I am saying is, please think before casting your lynch vote. "He's generally suspicious because someone else said so" is not a good reason. "I think he's probably mafia based on the analysis I've made of his posts" IS a good enough reason. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote: So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on. No, I'm saying we shouldn't lynch him because I think others are more likely to be mafia. Like Malongo. On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote: Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument. Fine, be that way. I'm not so fanatically opposed to day 1 roleclaiming. Yet. I've yet to see how it plays out in this game. On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote: Look at what Judge has just done. Hey I'm a Medic! this can't be proven or disproved by anyone I have a plan, trust me! why are we putting blind faith in him? Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's say he made a mistake. It's done. So now your plan is to execute him for it? To what end? I'm not convinced. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote: Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
I explained my reasoning for suspecting Malongo. I was wrong about him. I have another suspicion for someone who could be mafia, but only after the night ends can that suspicion be cleared up. If my suspicion proves to be misplaced... I would look more carefully at the people who haven't made meaningful contributions to the Town. As to me and Judge... seriously. I've said I don't care about him, and I mean it. If it turns out he's been wasting our time all along on Day 2, I'll vote to lynch him. I'm going to go ahead and look at the times people submitted their votes, and the times they have been posting for now. I can hope to find people lurking at best, or nothing at worst- which is what we seem to have going for us right now as far as finding mafia is concerned. Off the top of my head, I'll look closely at Mikeymoo and nemY, iirc they weren't terribly active before day 1 ended. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote: What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
My original PM to Judge: "To: vx70GTOJudgexv [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Mini Mafia 2 Date: 1/6/10 06:03 I've played with you before, read your posts, and thoroughly considered your role claim. You may be mafia, in which case I'm condemning myself with this PM, but I think you're not. So, I just wanted to let you know. I'm the vigi." It's a risky move, because in case Judge was mafia, I'd probably die on night 1. This is the reply I got: "From: vx70GTOJudgexv [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: Mini Mafia 2 Date: 1/6/10 08:06 Thanks for trusting me. I am not in fact mafia. I will have a purpose for you in the coming days. Right now, play enough to avoid being lynched, but not enough to become a NK target. I need you alive N2 for my plan to work out." The fact that he wanted me to save my kill for night 2 made me a bit suspicious- maybe he just wanted me to save it while he killed me at night 1. At any rate, if mafia hit me on Night 1, it'd be very likely Judge would be responsible for it, so I sent another PM to L, incriminating Judge in case I died, just before Night 1 ended: PM TO L BEGINS HERE, SO MANY QUOTATION SIGNS MAY MAKE IT CONFUSING: "To: L [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Before night ends Date: 1/8/10 11:18 Hey L. I wanted to inform you of these PMs I had with Judge, in case I don't survive the night: "Thanks for trusting me. I am not in fact mafia. I will have a purpose for you in the coming days. Right now, play enough to avoid being lynched, but not enough to become a NK target. I need you alive N2 for my plan to work out. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I've played with you before, read your posts, and thoroughly considered your role claim. You may be mafia, in which case I'm condemning myself with this PM, but I think you're not. So, I just wanted to let you know. I'm the vigi." Starts with a reply from Judge, and my own message which initiated the conversation is below. As you can see, I roleclaim Vigilante to him (which I'm not, by the way), and he says he'll need me to hit something on Night 2. In case Judge is mafia, he'll likely take my bait and kill me on Night 1. So yeah. If I die, it's probably because of that PM, and because Judge is mafia." PM TO L ENDS HERE. If Judge was mafia, and L wasn't, I would die on night 1 and L would know Judge to be mafia. If Judge was Town and L was mafia, I wasn't putting myself on any more immediate danger- I lied to L, telling him I'm not a Vigilante, in order to look like a less desirable target for night 1. At this point, I'm fairly convinced Judge is Town-aligned. The fact that I lived through night 1 does little to confirm L, however, so he isn't confirmed yet as far as I'm concerned. I won't expect everyone to believe me or to begin trusting Judge now. But know that I do trust him now, and from this post onwards, you know my reasons for placing that trust; I thought he wasn't mafia on day 1, and after night 1 came and went, this hunch has gained some substance. Yes, he isn't 100% confirmed to be Town-aligned just yet. However, he certainly looks more Town-aligned to me than anyone else, at the moment. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote: WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!? Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 08 2010 21:39 Chezinu wrote: If you guys decide to lynch me, I just want yall to know that I'm suspicious of Ace. Same, actually. The only thing that casts a doubt in my mind, is the fact that he was leading the bandwagon to lynch someone OTHER than a person he'd know to be Town-aligned (Malongo) if he was mafia. Maybe Judge was a bigger target? Still a ballsy move if he's mafia. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
As has been suggested by many, it's either Chez or Mikeymoo tonight. Based on their posts, I find Mikeymoo more likely to be mafia than Chez (he's only begun posting more since he was pointed at by Chez, and didn't have any defense to speak of). Besides, if he was Town, he'd have tried to give us useful last words before his death- since he knows he'll just flip red, he's not even bothering to do that. I find this post from L summarizes the game so far nicely- except for the fact that I did, in fact, think Malongo could've been mafia when I originally voted for him: On January 09 2010 10:47 L wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I said I meant nemy in that post. 10/10 for reading comprehension. As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity. ______________ Okay, recap time: Recap time: Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else. During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed. RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed. Most importantly, Heavonerth is killed. SOMEONE PLEASE GET A LIST OF ALL HIS POSTS Why is this important? Because it wasn't me, ace, rol, judge, zato or any of the 'content' posters Day 2: Chez claims he's the DT and has checked mikeymoo. People go batshit. Zato claims to be vig. People go double batshit. So we can examine this from two points of view: If you were mafia, how would you react to a bunch of town members claiming? Well, maybe you'd claim too! Throw a wrench into their gears. Alternatively, you could attack the credibility of their claims. This has happened for pretty much every claim thusfar. If you were town and people claimed, what would your reaction be? Well, you can be somewhat angry that a dt and medic 'revealed' themselves, because they would be likely to die, but at the same time given the volume of claims, its likely that some of these claimants are lying, and that one of them is probably going to get protected. But would you assume immediately that they had to be mafia? While one of the claimants might be mafia, it is highly unlikely that all 3 are. Zato is nearly 100% town; if he hits someone tonight, barring a medic protection, we can be certain its him. If someone objects, we kill them both and we net a mafia. Chez is a retard, but we can make sure he's telling the truth by having him check someone else; We can discuss who during the night because I'd rather not have people fishing in PMs to find out the roles beforehand. Judge is probably town too, but even if he's godfather, I can force him to die for no benefit if we go along with his plan. So overall, it seems like mikey is the best shot right now; If chez is lying, we vig him tonight. Mikeymoo had better be mafia, Chez, for your own sake. Then again, if he does flip red, figuring out my target for the night won't be so easy. | ||
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
Day 2, Chez presented a very easy choice for the rest of us. Not much to say until that lynch was made so we could draw some conclusions. That said, thank you Chez for helping us lynch a mafia. This does not mean you're a confirmed Town member now, for the reason many posted before me- you could just be mafia making a sacrifice to gain Town trust. So now we're here, Night 2. I have a decision to make, and I'll inform you of my decision prior to sending Incognito the PM. I just want to check a few things before I make my decision. As to Medic actions for the night? Good targets would be, IMO: * Zato-1: Some strongly suspect me of being Town already, and after my hit tonight, I'll be in a good position to ask Townies for roleclaims via PM. * L: He's a player with name-brand recognition, people will take him seriously and more importantly will be influenced by him, and he's been unambiguously pro-Town in his posts so far, both in form and substance. On top of that, I think he probably is Town-aligned so far. I can't think of many others. As I mentioned previously, I also think Judge is on the Town side, but since his plan couldn't be completed, it'll be hard for him to garner much leadership in the days to come. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of trust in the Town for his figure. As to Chezinu, he might be a DT and thus warrant a medic cover. But based on his posts thus far, I don't think he'd merit it. He'd need to make a strong case for himself soon if he wanted to be on my medic cover list. DT check for tonight... You could check me, but you're gonna get Vigilante anyway, even if I was the Godfather. As I mentioned previously, the _only_ RC that you can be 100% sure is accurate is the one in which your target comes up as a vanilla mafia member. If I had to suggest a list of who I think could come up as vanilla mafia members in a RC, it'd be something like: *nemY *Vivi57 It's a weak hunch so if someone has a better idea, hopefully backed up with arguments, please let us know. And btw, this does not mean those two are my prime mafia suspects for killing tonight. My prime mafia suspect for tonight would probably be the Godfather, if I'm right about him. | ||
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