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I usually get caught off guard as T when my opponent goes reaver or DT drop. Some opponents fake a 2 gate goon build but then directly tech to reaver/DT after killing my scouting SCV. What's the best way to deal with this?
I understand that the ebay should go up at 28 supply when you see exactly just 1 gate and/or robo tech. What's a good timing for the ebay against 2 gate builds and where exactly should the turrets be placed on maps such as destination, python, or heartbreak ridge? Also, when I'm massing my army of vults and tanks for the timing push is it always good to keep one or two tanks seiged next to turrets in your main to avoid drops? What really gets me are 2 zealot + reaver drops and sometimes if my opponent is smart he will attack in the front while simultaneously dropping my main.
Also, I'm also a bit shaky on when exactly to add factories and academy when doing a standard seige FE build. I add my 2nd factory (which gets a machine shop addon) as soon as my CC is ready and 2-3 more factories (that get built at exactly the same time) after I pump a few more waves of tanks out. What is also the best supply to get your academy/comsat up?
Thanks!
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If they're faking it, they're upgrading air weapons and canceling it when your scv dies, players frequently will cancel it while you still have sight, forgetting the delay after your unit's death. Keeping your scv alive as long as possible delays his tech by that long, as the 100 gas is a huge delay and also prevents him from placing citadel/robo while you can still scout. Other signs of reaver/dts are really late natural expansions, try and continually scout that.
Unless you mean they're faking 2 gates and canceling one, which just sounds weird.
Also, a replay could help (they're supposed to be included in the OP of [h] threads. Keeping one or two tanks by your main mineral line is usually a good idea, but sometimes you need it for your push (it's a judgement thing, usually as to how likely your opponent's harass is), and sometimes you have more vulnerable ones elsewhere.
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Sorry but I don't actually have the replay on hand. In this game I the P did not cancel his 2nd gate but instead just placed down his robotics and support bay directly after and went for a 2 zeal + goon drop while attacking at my natural choke on heartbreak ridge after I moved some tanks into my main to defend. How does one deal with this and what are the exact timings for ebay and academy?
Also in the event that I don't have turrets up to deal with a faked goon range or canceled 2 gate to reaver drop, what is the best thing to do?
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Well, I am only a C- toss player, but imo the standard timings are e-bay right after cc and first factory and academy after the second factory, these should keep you safe anyway. Also, if you scout reaver before range the best thing to do is get an ebay right after your first factory and before command, the goal is just to survive the initial attack.
If you are attacked and dont have any defesne up, just try to micro the best you can. Try and move your tanks back so that the scarabs only do have damage when they hit your tanks. Other than that I am not a t player, so that is my best advice. Hope it helps a bit
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United States3824 Posts
Bind your location keys F2, F3, F4 and pull your workers to the other base. Other than that keep your scouting SCV alive longer.
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Thanks. I have my main and nat hotkeyed to f2 and f3 and I can transfer workers without any issues. My problem is when the toss is able to take out my tanks in conjuction with a few scvs with the help of 2 zealots in the shuttle, which leaves me crippled for the rest of the game. This issue is largely micro based but any general tips that aren't so obvious would be helpful.
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United States10671 Posts
Well...I'm not the greatest player (barely made D+ last season) but I've had plenty of issues with Dark Templar and Reavers. My biggest advice would be mines. If your opponent is attacking you with DTS when you're getting your second factory up, that's already rather late, so worry more about early game harass than extending into a later early game into mid game attack.
Instead of worrying too much about maintaining an expansion from goon attacks, if you KNOW he is going some type of drop build, go for a combination of turrets and mines. Perhaps some reverse psychology could help too. Place turrets in locations but leave a rather LARGE spot open and plant that area full of mines. The shuttle will take the obvious opening, and hopefully, the mines will make short work of any DTs or Reavers that come out.
In my personal opinion, I've found that no matter how many ways you put it, reavers + shuttle > tanks. It's important that whenever you siege your tank, be sure you have a turret nearby. It would really help in diverting his reavers away from yours tanks, which is always good.
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The problem with vultures for DT drops is that I never have them in time. I have mines researched but I produce straight tanks from my 2 facts until I get my 3rd and 4th factories up.
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United States10671 Posts
On August 22 2009 07:14 asdfTT123 wrote:
The problem with vultures for DT drops is that I never have them in time. I have mines researched but I produce straight tanks from my 2 facts until I get my 3rd and 4th factories up.
Then that's your ultimate problem. DTs rape the shit out of tanks unless you have scans, which probably won't be there when the DTs reach your base. So instead of pumping numerous amounts of tanks, balance it out with vultures and maybe get mines before siege. Of course, then you'll have to rely on micro to bust out of a small goon contain, but who said that Starcraft was an easy game right?
Again, scouting is most important. You can NEVER guess your opponent's build off of sheer guesswork and poor scouting. It's cliche, but guessing will ultimately lead to you losing the game.
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Okay, I will try to switch up my unit production from my 2 factories and see if that works a bit better because I guess it would also be useful to have a few mines laid out for reaver drops. I was told from several sources to only pump tanks from the first 2 facts as it would better prepare you for your 2 base timing push. Can anyone explain this to me and what the best course of action with unit production would be in early game TvP?
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You should try this out.
Go normal seige expand and get early academy and port right after your CC. Build a wraith and use it as a scout. If he goes reavers, your wraith should be out only slightly later after his shuttle appears.
Once you have deflected it, build a dropship and do some harass.
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On August 22 2009 08:52 JMave wrote:
You should try this out.
Go normal seige expand and get early academy and port right after your CC. Build a wraith and use it as a scout. If he goes reavers, your wraith should be out only slightly later after his shuttle appears.
Once you have deflected it, build a dropship and do some harass.
the problems with this is:
1. he will see the dropship harass a mile away because you built a starport
2. you will have severely less tanks/vults because youre still on 1 fact. this means he could easily swoop his shuttle around, use goons to cover it, and simply break your natural, seeing as youll have at most 2 or 3 tanks at that point.
3. if he ends up not going with a shuttle, congrats. you just wasted 150/100/2 on a useless (other than scouting) wraith and delayed your dropship.
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Even though i am a P player I have always liked the placement to be around the perimeter of the base instead of right next to the CC. That is just a preference i guess, and i am not sure if it is as effective.
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It might help to hide an scv on the map as the goon pops out to hunt the first scout... of course if you wall that might get spotted by the probe but still...
JMave describes the oov/fantasy opening that transitions into vulture harass, and it is quite strong as seen in pro games of recent times, provided that your drop succeeds and kills 6-7 probes.
On another idea: goons cost 50 gas, tanks cost 100, so they will have 2 goons to 1 tank in early game, unless they proxy 10/15(think travel time and how that affects things, not unit numbers overall) all in all just about enough to overrun you in this stage so you will need sim city/pulling workers to defend rushes. But it is possible to defend with this ratio of goons/tanks and it should be your goal.
Make 3 tanks, then skip one tank for 2 vultures/mine upgrade and resume tanks from your first factory
Check out liquipedia pages they have a few timings written down so you don't have to experiment openings yourself
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do it safe.. make ebay earlier. game would be much simpler and no need to post here.
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I've learnt many things offracing terran and playing against protoss, and one thing I know is that I don't have the skills to quickly transfer SCVs. So what I do is if I go FE, my build is something like this:
9supply
12rax
12gas
15supply (this completes the wall on most maps)
a marine
take scv off gas and use it to make factory when you get 200/100
another marine
when factory finishes build machine shop
depending on your scout if he goes zealot first you can go command center before tank
if he goes directly goon you get tank and siege first before cc
when you build cc pull an scv back on gas
this is all around 24/26
supply here
ebay at around 28/34, when your second tank starts
build turrets all around the edges of your base, your second base should be up and running at around the same time
protoss shouldn't have the shuttle reaver ready in time, and you'd already have turrets for detecting dts
idk, just my build. not perfect, just really safe, and usually if not always gets me ready for the mid game.
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The best counter is to just scout it. If your first scv died send another one to figure out what he does. If that doesn't work just do your standard 1 fact-expo bo and you will be safe if you build 1 turret in your main and 1 at your expo.
Keep your first siege tank sieged at your expo and take the second and third, together with your marines and keep them in your main to deal with possible drops in case you didn't manage to scout very well or feel he might be going for a proxy.
As a starting terran, you really need to make sure you're executing your bo's flawlesly. You'd be surprised how easy you can win games following the standard 5 fact bo as opposed to pulling a freestyle 5 fact push.
Check this thread and Stylish's vod thread for the bo's.
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Just open 2 fac vultures. You would be safe unless they proxied.
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EPT
