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Active: 749 users

Concerned About SC2 Scam

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1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 17:15:25
October 26 2011 12:46 GMT
#1
edit: Talk to the owner of the site:

I talked to Xavi for about 30 minutes.

While I'm still not completely convinced, he pointed out, very correctly, that there is virtually no risk to the community here.

There is fraud and theft protection built into PayPal, and into the credit card companies that would protect us as individuals should something shady happen.

But I don't believe he has bad intentions. He's a real dude - not some Russian hacker ripping off people's social security numbers.

The launch of the site might have been a bit hasty, and the lack of polish on smaller details like casters and streaming is a bit unfortunate, but I feel like he's actually a pretty legit guy, trying to provide something to the community.

I gave him some contacts to hopefully help him along, and I will continue to keep in touch with him, and, so long as everything is proven to be legit, will help him out where I can.

Again, I'm still not 100% convinced, but it's starting to look like I might owe Xavi an apology or three.






https://provpro.org/

wtf is this supposed to be?

The guy says he hasn't contacted players (but he's tried email and twitter) and yet he's accepting community donations.

This reeks of scam and it pisses me off.

If I'm speaking out of turn, then please, someone put me in my place, but I'm not going to sit here and twiddle my thumbs if I feel like our community is getting ripped off.

My rant on why this feels fishy:

+ Show Spoiler +
Here's where I stand on this:

For a site to just go up asking for donations, and then be plastered on reddit for thousands of people to upvote (people who are probably too young or uninformed to have ever been scammed before), thus creating hype and garnering more views is very suspicious.

There are countless avenues through which to do this legitimately.

I am personally ALWAYS looking for new ways to promote e-sports and create SC2 related content.

Guys like JP are ALWAYS willing to hear out good ideas (and this is a good idea) and help get them going if legit.

This just feels too shady.

If it's not, and if I'm smearing somebody's good name, then I am seriously fucking sorry, and I will make it right.

But in the mean time, people need to be made aware of the possibility of a major scam....


Response from site's creator:

+ Show Spoiler +
Hello,

Creator of ProVPro here. I'm sorry you feel this reeks of a scam. If there's anyway I can ease your concerns, please let me know. As other people on this thread have mentioned, money is not taken from donor's accounts until the show match happens. I also don't recorded people's credit card or paypal credentials. In the backend, I interface with paypal's credit card processing service to ensure everything is done securely and without the need to store CC info.

Up until this point, I have not been very aggressive about trying to contact many players. Before today/last night, most matches only had a $10 bid with the highest pot at $80 (Day9 vs Tasteless of course =P). At that point, I didn't think it was worth the reputation of the site (or my personal self-respect) to spam these players. They my e-heros and I love what they do. The last thing I want to do is annoy them or piss them off.

That said, I do need help contacting the players, namely Day9 and Tastless. As mentioned earlier I've tried e-mail and twitter with no success. If anyone could help or give some advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I live in California and it's currently 6:55am.


Creator response 2:

+ Show Spoiler +
Hello

Before I launch the site, I did try contact a number of casters and players. I even got to exchanged a handful of emails with Destiny, djWheat, and Artosis -- mostly about advice on how I should brand the site. When I say, I haven't been in contact with the players, I mostly mean I haven't been able to contact Day9, Tasteless, Idra, or iNControl.

Also, you are not trusting me with money. The site does not charge you until the show match occurs. Also, keep in mind that I'm using paypal for these transactions. Paypal (and credit card companies in general) have excellent anti-scam measures. If this does turn out to be a scam, paypal and/or your credit card company will cancel the hold your account (remember there is no money to be returned).

I understand that people would have concerns. That is why I'm making my contact info well known. My personal email is xavi.rmz@gmail.com (though adjunct@provpro.org also works) and my skype is xavi-ramirez. Please message me if you have concerns.

I assure this isn't some this isn't just some site I through up over the weekend. I've worked nights and weekends for the past month and half to make sure everything is as polished as possible. I've asked dozens of people for advice both in and out of the starcraft community. This is very much a labor of love.


I'm still very wary of anyone that asks for money.

Community ultimately has to be the judge.
TheSilverfox
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden1928 Posts
October 26 2011 12:48 GMT
#2
It says on their site that: "Note: You won't be charged until the match takes place."

I have not tested if it will be like that, but that should make it a bit more legitimate.
Also known as Joinsimon on Twitter/Reddit
Tercotta
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada402 Posts
October 26 2011 12:48 GMT
#3
He said on a reddit thread that no transaction is processed till the showmatch happens. The raw idea is kind of cool but needs to be vetted somehow. If an established institution did something like this is would be pretty cool.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 26 2011 12:53 GMT
#4
It's a nice idea, as long as money doesn't change hands, I'm fine with it.
Cauterize the area
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 26 2011 12:54 GMT
#5
This is on reddit, nothing been talked about on TL so I have no idea what this is, etc.
Should give more explanation in the OP.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ElusoryX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Singapore2047 Posts
October 26 2011 12:56 GMT
#6
let's see after the first match haha. innocent until proven guilty
xd
IMABUNNEH
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1062 Posts
October 26 2011 12:56 GMT
#7
As long as they don't charge until it happens I think it's ok. It's a well designed site at least.


I just want Tasteless vs Day9 D=
"I think...now? No rival. Me world champion. Yeah. None rival." - oGsMC
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 26 2011 12:57 GMT
#8
On October 26 2011 21:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is on reddit, nothing been talked about on TL so I have no idea what this is, etc.
Should give more explanation in the OP.


I don't have any information. No one does. That's why I made the post.

It's a site that collects credit card and PayPal infos and promises to put together show matches.

If it's legit, I will gladly edit/delete my OP. If it's not, people should know.
aebriol
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway2066 Posts
October 26 2011 12:57 GMT
#9
You can't know whether or not it's legit before the matches are held so no reason to judge yet.
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands19135 Posts
October 26 2011 12:57 GMT
#10
This could really use some more info in the OP. At the moment users have to follow the link to get any idea of what is going on but this is just a contentless rant at the moment.
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 26 2011 12:59 GMT
#11
On October 26 2011 21:57 Nyovne wrote:
This could really use some more info in the OP. At the moment users have to follow the link to get any idea of what is going on but this is just a contentless rant at the moment.


Then please lock it.

There is no info. Just a guy asking for money.

Am I just being overly paranoid?
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
October 26 2011 13:00 GMT
#12
day9 vs tasteless already happened bros

tasteless won
FranzP
Profile Joined November 2010
France270 Posts
October 26 2011 13:00 GMT
#13
If it's a scam at the first scamming nobody will ever go the site again.

I think its a good idea to make the community sponsor showmatches but it should have a part dedicated to caster I think because its an important part of a showmatch.
"Cyberhacking is kind of like masturbation I guess, all countries do it but nobody actually talks about it. China just was accidentally doing it with the door wide open." Newbistic
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 13:01:51
October 26 2011 13:01 GMT
#14
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279472

Here we go:
To my knowledge, the site does not take money from the donaters until the showmatch has taken place. And if the showmatch does not take place, the donation will be voided/refunded. For more information, refer to the Reddit post or the website itself =)


You give the site more publicity if you don't agree or think it's ripping people off (by making this thread, thus grabbing people's attention). He hasn't contacted anyone (as someone said before) and so far, it doesn't really set anything off but start the cogs in motion (though maybe he should have done more than just make a site).

Just an odd approach I guess.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
WArped
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom4845 Posts
October 26 2011 13:04 GMT
#15
It's kind like kickstarter, whereby it gets refunded if it doesn't happen, but that site in the OP looks very suspicious. >.>
Ryder.
Profile Joined January 2011
1117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 13:06:26
October 26 2011 13:06 GMT
#16
Has he actually contacted all the players about it and gotten their approval? He must be a somewhat known figure in the community if all these pros (particularly day9 and tasteless, since seem to wish to keep their playing ability private) are willing to go forward with it.

Also the donations required are tiny, is the number displayed on the left what they currently have, or the target rate? I assume it's what they currently have because it is ridiculously small, so how do we know what the threshold required is?

And just because he says no money will be taken doesn't mean he won't stand by that if it is a scam...

I always err on the side of caution, would be nice to see some sort of valid explanation though since it is a good idea.
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 13:07:51
October 26 2011 13:06 GMT
#17
Edit:
already posted few post before.
If a mod could delete this useless post please.
And by this i mean mine not the thread ^^;
chambertin
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1704 Posts
October 26 2011 13:07 GMT
#18
IMO this is the situation:
A well-intentioned guy has gone ahead with an idea he had that he thought would be cool. He made a pretty flashy website that he has begun to advertise. However, he has also jumped the gun rather gravely. He has admitted to not having contacted players or casters previously to asking for donations. On the other hand, he appears not to be charging until the showmatches actually take place. This suggests it is not a scam. Thus I suspect either:

a) he is just well intentioned but rather ignorant of the fact that smoke without substance is not viable as a service/product.

b) he has put up the site because he has had trouble getting into contact with players and hopes that it generates enough publicity/notoriety that it will afford him the power to get in touch with said people.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates?
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 13:13:49
October 26 2011 13:12 GMT
#19
Here's where I stand on this:

For a site to just go up asking for donations, and then be plastered on reddit for thousands of people to upvote (people who are probably too young or uninformed to have ever been scammed before), thus creating hype and garnering more views is very suspicious.

There are countless avenues through which to do this legitimately.

I am personally ALWAYS looking for new ways to promote e-sports and create SC2 related content.

Guys like JP are ALWAYS willing to hear out good ideas (and this is a good idea) and help get them going if legit.

This just feels too shady.

If it's not, and if I'm smearing somebody's good name, then I am seriously fucking sorry, and I will make it right.

But in the mean time, people need to be made aware of the possibility of a major scam....
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 26 2011 13:17 GMT
#20
I think you gave the site more light and awareness than how little it had before.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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