On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote: Speaking of HolyFlare, this is off topic from my current explanation but when I went back later on and reread his posts I thought he might be town. I don't even remember why but that's what I thought. I don't like reading into people getting replaced out so I focused my attention elsewhere. If HolyFlare is town I expect Toad to be able to prove it to us sooner and not later. And by sooner I mean end of night 2 at the absolute latest.
I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1.
I see absolutely zero reason why this section of your post is relevant, and I've said it multiple times before. I don't ever see mafia members actively trying to push lynches off their scumbuddies. However if you actually do think this way, maybe it explains why you as scum were trying to save sandroba?
As I said above, if you and kitaman want to run down the conspiracy theory hole even after there's a boatload of evidence proving my innocence and very little evidence proving yours (and VE's, and Toad's, and Kitaman's) then that's cool when you lose the game for the town.
I win games.
Silly question then in regards to your last post: Which two of the four of us are scum? And 'it doesn't matter' doesn't cut it because there is no way in hell the rest of the players in this game will simply follow your instructions and lynch those 4 without considering all options.
That's not a silly question. I believe it is you and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE.
Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time).
Mostly because....then our super awesome last minute switch to sandro...was kind of pointless? That's kind of depressing. I really want to think about that vote switch as super awesome
On January 25 2014 13:11 gonzaw wrote: Mostly because....then our super awesome last minute switch to sandro...was kind of pointless? That's kind of depressing. I really want to think about that vote switch as super awesome
Nah it still was. Last minute shenannies are fun and I'm sad I wasn't there for them.
[QUOTE]On January 25 2014 11:01 Foolishness wrote: Also, the meat of your argument seems to be that I lack a 10 page essay on why someone is mafia. I'll tell you right now that you certainly aren't getting one about any player in the game the next few days, and probably not for the entire game. I don't have the time in my life to do such a thing so I can only give you what I got with the time that I have to play this game./QUOTE]
Well, you do have the time to make 10 page essays about the votes, sandro's POV, and how much Prome is town, don't you?
On January 25 2014 11:01 Foolishness wrote: Also, the meat of your argument seems to be that I lack a 10 page essay on why someone is mafia. I'll tell you right now that you certainly aren't getting one about any player in the game the next few days, and probably not for the entire game. I don't have the time in my life to do such a thing so I can only give you what I got with the time that I have to play this game.
Well, you do have the time to make 10 page essays about the votes, sandro's POV, and how much Prome is town, don't you?
Alright fuck it. I didn't want to release this info to thread in case scum tries their own version of last-minute shenannies (or a bad town version of it) but I won't be there for lynch tomorrow either. Once again, letting you guys know way in advance so if you all switch to me for whatever reason there won't be a damn thing I can do to defend myself. Do with this info what you will, people. Make shit cases on how I'm scum avoiding lynch (though honestly I don't see how that would fly considering it will be very easy to lynch me at deadline if people desire it), eliminate me last second or don't.
My activity will also likely be sporadic tomorrow until my usual evening time. Are there any requests/suggestions for me? you all know my reads already I believe.
On January 25 2014 13:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright fuck it. I didn't want to release this info to thread in case scum tries their own version of last-minute shenannies (or a bad town version of it) but I won't be there for lynch tomorrow either. Once again, letting you guys know way in advance so if you all switch to me for whatever reason there won't be a damn thing I can do to defend myself. Do with this info what you will, people. Make shit cases on how I'm scum avoiding lynch (though honestly I don't see how that would fly considering it will be very easy to lynch me at deadline if people desire it), eliminate me last second or don't.
My activity will also likely be sporadic tomorrow until my usual evening time. Are there any requests/suggestions for me? you all know my reads already I believe.
If you don't want to go through his filter, ain't no thang. But could you give quick, dirtay, thoughts on marv?
On January 25 2014 13:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright fuck it. I didn't want to release this info to thread in case scum tries their own version of last-minute shenannies (or a bad town version of it) but I won't be there for lynch tomorrow either. Once again, letting you guys know way in advance so if you all switch to me for whatever reason there won't be a damn thing I can do to defend myself. Do with this info what you will, people. Make shit cases on how I'm scum avoiding lynch (though honestly I don't see how that would fly considering it will be very easy to lynch me at deadline if people desire it), eliminate me last second or don't.
My activity will also likely be sporadic tomorrow until my usual evening time. Are there any requests/suggestions for me? you all know my reads already I believe.
If you don't want to go through his filter, ain't no thang. But could you give quick, dirtay, thoughts on marv?
On January 25 2014 12:04 austinmcc wrote: Do you think Foolishness is the BEST lynch for today? Most likely mafia? Or just he's got a good chance of flipping, but probably better prey elsewhere?
I think it's between VE and Foolishness for me. Wave seems like he is putting enough effort into the game to warrant surviving at least one cycle longer than these two. I haven't seen a compelling argument against Toad yet. Holy was scummy null for me, but that was off a limited amount of posts. I'm mostly in wait and see mode on him.
I'm on the fence with VE right now. A lot of the things he is doing I can see from a town or mafia VE. As of right now, Foolishness is the best lynch in my opinion.
Strangely enough kita seems to be getting into my head again. At least regarding the Wave and VE stuff. Damn you kita. Anyways....yeah Wave isn't lynched today at all. Right now he has a 10 page filter, the 2nd most largest one (tied with marv). He's spent 6 pages of his filter being active in this D2. Can you say that of VE? Of Foo? Of Toad? Even of you kita, or austin or marv?
His most incriminating thing is defending VE so much with unconvincing stuff, going against Prome over so unconvincing stuff, and spending so much time on an impossible scumteam. But apparently he got his head fixed and is making more sense now. Out of every "not confirmed", he's putting the most effort in scumhunting. Cases on Prome, then cases on Foo, then cases on Toad. Like...yeah we don't lynch him, at the very least on principle (you don't want to lynch the guy putting the most content into the thread would you?)
Also, his outburst against Toad is genuine as fuck. Even I got angry at Toad's case when he made it, I can't imagine what Wave felt.
Another townie point is seeing how his reads evolve. He clearly starts this day going full on "Foo+Prome scum, VE town". But then see how his reads start shifting naturally from post to post. He starts getting into some confrontation with Toad. Then he checks Holy's filter and finds suspicious stuff. Then finds suspicious stuff on Toad. Then finds him more suspicious than Prome. Then the more shit Toad flings at him, the more angry and "sure" he's scum he gets (at least in an emotional sense). You can see that progression. If he's scum, what's preventing him from parking a vote on Prome/Toad/Foo and then go on a fluff rampage or whatever? He already made 4 walls of text about Prome/Foo being scum, if he's scum he is already "set" in terms of faking contributions and justifying his vote. Yet he is very active in the thread, chiming in on EVERY detail happening in the thread, and reacting to them. If he's scum, with say, VE/Toad/kita/etc, would he really have the motivation to keep up that kind of effort after a D1 scum lynch? Wouldn't he just go afk like VE did or something?
Also, I see him "pressuring" people the same way I see a townie doing right now. He pressures Foo, Toad, etc with questions, concerns, etc, even when he already labelled them "scum". But if he's townie, thinking they are scum but still trying to be sure, bla bla bla, it makes sense. E.g that's what me, marv, etc are all doing this cycle, and it feels natural. Counter that with for instance what Foo is doing, which is make the case on Wave, then don't even talk about him while still calling him scum. Or maybe even Toad I'd believe.
I have very very very little reasons for lynching Wave this cycle Promy boy, where art thou?
So, for me it is: Foolishness, VE or Toad. Who do we lynch of those?
Right now I'll chill and see things from outside a little bit. VE still hasn't done anything, but I want to give him time to "recompose". If he's town, he needs a little time. If he's scum, then the more time he spends doing nothing the more convincing the case against him is, and the less excuses he has. We also need Prome's updated reads. We could also need a little bit of drama. That's always welcome. We even have Toad right now!
On January 21 2014 19:34 marvellosity wrote: Oh, Foolishness just dropped that and left? I was expecting more. Seems like he's just jumping on a somewhat generic opening post and going "omg scum" (although he doesn't even deign to explain this).
Nothing else was very interesting to me
##Vote: Foolishness
The right read to get from this imo. Doesn't say a lot because I would think it's easy to come by but whatever. Oh let me preface this read post by saying I have still to this day never played with scum Marv and I have no idea what it looks like. I tend to suspect him early on in most games and then he tells me I'm dumb, bad or both, we talk for a while and then we get along great. That hasn't happened in this game. Not sure what to make of that if anything.
On January 21 2014 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote: If we're talking meta, pressure won't mean anything to sandroba. He'll either play or he won't, and if he's town he'll probably find some scum. People like kita voting for him as a joke will probably not pressure him as much as you seem to think.
I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today.
Why is he a great vote and/or lynch?
I really don't understand what your objective is here given a recent post of yours...
On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: ... Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? ...
I can't point out all the scummy things he posts if he hasn't posted yet. If you were to vote for him then maybe he will respond and I'd have something to give you. Sounds like a win-win to me!
Can we talk about something serious? What do you think of VE?
He's the topic du-jour.
I can't call VE scummy, else he will vote for me.
I KNOW YOUR SECRETS.
I'd rather talk about marv. He suggest that the all vanilla setup makes things difficult to start off rather than attempting to generate conversation.
I never randomly generate conversation at the start of any games, and I very rarely talk about setup. You and most other players in the game should know this. Why are you suggesting it as something suspicious?
Mostly a weak idea to see if anyone wanted to take it farther than it warranted. Nothing useful really came out of it, besides maybe a few unnecessary defense posts that could possibly be looked at post flip later on in the game.
Do you feel Hapa's attempts to generate conversation are town motivated or is he more concerned with personal appearance?
Hmm. Alright. That might be reasonable. Defending marv always pro-town btw
I'm fine with Hapa atm, seems like his typical tryharding. Should be relatively obvious by the end of the day whether he's scum or not. Banking on no currently
Also the right read, but also an easy one to come by (if I can do it, it's easy lol)
On January 22 2014 04:25 austinmcc wrote: We can skip the yes/no portion I guess...
If you like Prome's explanation, I'm interested in hearing about that. If you don't, then you think Prome (1) is silly or (2) gave a false reason and/or (3) doesn't have a reason?
If you don't like Prome's explanation and it's (2) or (3), then whether there was a point of contention or not is irrelevant, except that it SHOULD be a point of contention. In my book, making up or having a very weak justification for treating in a different manner two people who do the same thing is a scummy thing (which is the mindset I find myself in at the moment, that yes, what he did was scummy because I don't buy that justification)
Just popping in between exercise and dinner, i'll go find kita's stuff a bit later.
Mostly 1, maybe a touch of 3? It's just something I don't find very surprising. I've often remarked to Prome that I find his opening to games bad/weak/scummy because he makes senseless accusations/stupid fluff/whatever.
Really (and this is to VE mostly I guess) I don't really care so much about him doing that at the start of the game, nor Hapa either, because it's what they do. The difference between here and LX is that on LX it was abundantly clear he was on the backfoot about his RNG plan, here his defence was on the frontfoot (partly *because* he didn't try to overjustify it again and again) and he simply moved on from it.
I sincerely wish I found it as interesting as you and VE seem to :p
I think I missed this insight originally on VE's LX comparison and now that I think about it he *may* be right? I mean, it doesn't necessarily answer the fact that Prome made the 'policy' post in the first place, but whatever.
Marv appears to go from suspicious on kita to...not around the time Foolishness showed up and did stuff. That was a little strange
On January 22 2014 08:42 marvellosity wrote: I did play in that game so I remember ^^. And yes it's the content. Enough for me to not want to lynch him atm.
gonzaw: Holy or Wave. Dunno about Prome, I don't have the issues other ppl seem to. Apparently I'm seeing ghosts with kita, I'll come back to that (or not) later. The Holy emotional stuff is pretty good as mentioned
Here he moves on to Holy from gonzaw maybe and me as well. This does seem typical to the marv I've seen who flip-flops reads very quickly and without bias, all the while considering things closely (but often in a hidden manner).
On January 22 2014 23:08 marvellosity wrote: Sorry Wave, what's the actual alignment conclusion (if any) about that post in the end?
Good question here because i didn't really have a good one at the time.
On January 22 2014 22:49 kitaman27 wrote: I'd much rather hear who marv is considering voting, rather than defending a player he thinks is town.
Wave looks better, for obvious reasons
Could you expand on this, even if it's brief? I didn't pick up on the obvious reason. Mine read was more based on the lack of anything wrong, rather than an abundance of anything he has done that is helpful.
Also, could you justify your Holyflare vote for me with specifics? You mention that you thought gonzaw's points were good. Is that what you're going by or is the vote mostly due to his absence from the thread?
I currently don't have a strong preference between sandroba and Holyflare and it seems like sandroba hasn't been inspired to rejoin the thread. I'll vote with you for the time being.
##Unvote ##Vote Holyflare
Wave is waffling earnestly at length as I'd expect him to. Although he's only got one scumgame, I'd very much expect him to be more direct than he has been if mafia. I've been suspicious of him in two reasonably recent games for being slow and waffly (##, LXIV) and now it just seems it's how he opens day 1 as town. So maybe not obvious after all. I just think his thought process is transparent. Like he's posted a lot of his thought process, where's his agenda?
Mainly with Holy that he seems angrier than was justified. But most of all it's the constant niggling at Hapa, especially with his last post(s) when Hapa was by a large margin the towniest guy in the thread. It's just not natural at all. Tbh I don't make a massive amount of his absence, I believe he'd be here posting as either alignment, so not that alignment indicative.
In this post marv nails me completely, and yet throughout D2 he has problems with my posting and still may think I'm scum....I suppose that may be due to the somewhat odd-considered nature of my Prome/VE reads posts rather than me being tentative but I wonder if he considered me scummy before that point because as far as I knwo my play didn't change throughout all of D1 so the read he had here should have held.
On January 23 2014 02:55 marvellosity wrote: yuh huh. you've been giving me the jeebies all game. but you're too active to lynch today in the end.
I commented on this one earlier on somewhere but this is one of those 'mind meld' moments Marv was talking about where I felt really good about him.
Ok so here are the posts about me post0lynch and they actually show a little of where he got to where he is now on me:
On January 23 2014 08:07 marvellosity wrote: lots of interesting things with this lynch, VE is one
Fool/kita/Prome/WoS are others for various reasons. I'll probably chat at length about it tomorrow.
On January 24 2014 00:43 marvellosity wrote: also Wave your posts post-lynch have been shocking. General wishy washy fingerpointing without actually fingerpointing. "there's gonna be a scum on the sandroba wagon" ... "cos feels bro". Can't actually tell what you're trying to achieve at all.
Like...the 'wishywashy' thing kind of bothers me because he should know that's how I am, but I guess I hit his limit to wishywashiness or something? Maybe marv himself should answer that.
I was just about to post how marv made a large 'suspicion' post on kita post lynch and then never came back to it, but here:
On January 25 2014 02:29 marvellosity wrote: Basically being petulant :p kita is more interesting, if Wave has things to do first then that'll probably line up with when I get around to looking at kita again. Although I kinda want to wait until kita has done his latest round of posting.
Pretty consistent, though I want to see where he is on kita now, especially since kita is one of the 'Foolishness Four.'
Conclusion: Typical marv imo. Town. Asks the right questions, gets to the bottom of stuff, good suspicion, all around townie stuff. I still have that little voice that says 'BUT WHAT IF?!' but for some reason this game I've been able to suppress it where marv is concerned.
I still can't believe VE spends 5 hours making porkchops. At least 5 hours from where he heats up the oil until he's done (he could have spent more time before defrosting them, etc). Unless you are at a charity or wedding making porkchops for 100 people, I don't see that happening? It's insane. Heating up oil and cooking 2-3 porkchops takes 40 minutes at most to me, not 5 fricking hours.
Maybe he's just fucking with us? Remember his excuse for not being around deadline is that he was with the porkchops too. Maybe he'll say he's still cooking those porkchops now?
On January 25 2014 13:59 gonzaw wrote: I still can't believe VE spends 5 hours making porkchops. At least 5 hours from where he heats up the oil until he's done (he could have spent more time before defrosting them, etc). Unless you are at a charity or wedding making porkchops for 100 people, I don't see that happening? It's insane. Heating up oil and cooking 2-3 porkchops takes 40 minutes at most to me, not 5 fricking hours.
Maybe he's just fucking with us? Remember his excuse for not being around deadline is that he was with the porkchops too. Maybe he'll say he's still cooking those porkchops now?
lol I read that and I wtfed too, but I personally hate judging people on RL shit. (I could be biased because I know I never lie about where/when I go or why I'm away and as you can see, I get retarded suspicion for it a lot.) Yes it's a viable way of getting out of suspicion by lying, but I find more often than not people do tell the truth.
On January 25 2014 13:59 gonzaw wrote: I still can't believe VE spends 5 hours making porkchops. At least 5 hours from where he heats up the oil until he's done (he could have spent more time before defrosting them, etc). Unless you are at a charity or wedding making porkchops for 100 people, I don't see that happening? It's insane. Heating up oil and cooking 2-3 porkchops takes 40 minutes at most to me, not 5 fricking hours.
Maybe he's just fucking with us? Remember his excuse for not being around deadline is that he was with the porkchops too. Maybe he'll say he's still cooking those porkchops now?
lol I read that and I wtfed too, but I personally hate judging people on RL shit. (I could be biased because I know I never lie about where/when I go or why I'm away and as you can see, I get retarded suspicion for it a lot.) Yes it's a viable way of getting out of suspicion by lying, but I find more often than not people do tell the truth.
That's why I backed out of it, because I didn't want to start a shitstorm trying to figure out the average cooking time of porkchops and discussing the consistency of oil or whatever shit. But...there is suspension of disbelief, and there is "wtf is that true?" territory.
Like, what if he had told us he was cooking the porkchops ever since he FoSed Prome? Would you believe him then? It's too wtf to ignore. The problem is that most of VE's "problems" with the lynch, thread, etc back on D1 hinge on this excuse of his. His unfounded vote on Holy then Foolishness, his behaviour from then until the deadline, etc. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't give a shit how much time he spends cooking food, but if his entire alignment hinges on that....well then you have to ask yourself "Is what this guy is telling true or possible?".
EPT
