[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 80

On January 25 2014 12:17 kitaman27 wrote:


I don't have you in my top 2 at the moment?

On January 25 2014 12:14 WaveofShadow wrote:

You haven't seen anything compelling against toad? What about gonzaw and my prodding of him?

Do you agree with any of toad's case on me? Why or why not?

(Goes for you too austin)

On January 25 2014 12:28 austinmcc wrote:
The thing I like least about Toad is that there's no branching. You were mafia before he read your filter thoroughly (all this filter stuff MAY be "i read his filter, then he posted a bunch of large posts at the start of D2, then I have to read his new filter", not sure. If this bit is the case, all of this is less applicable to everything).

He recognizes that VE hits some of the same triggers as you do - lack of activity at lynch time, specifically. But he doesn't look harder into VE. He's tunneled into you. I don't love that, but I don't think I dislike it in a "toad looks scummy" way, more in a "I wish that toad would also tunnel everyone else, because he's just going full bore after one guy pretty much and wasn't around for D1 so that's not a lot of toadthoughts"

On January 25 2014 12:26 austinmcc wrote:
I still kinda like Toad. Liked HF. Don't care that Toad didn't read HF's filter. Wish there was more current contribution, because I think a lot of the early stuff has to be discounted given his lack of feel for the time right before lynch.

As far as his case on you, I think it starts off in a ... townie way I guess? For whatever reason, I view him as accusing you SOLELY because of your absence at lynch time, the 20 minute stuff, to be a townie-ish thing? That's a weak ass reason to vote someone over anyone and anything else in the game.

He explicitly states, with his vote on you and having said you're his favorite lynch, that he's still trying to get through your filter (vote early on, reading filter recently). I don't LOVE the idea of mafia straight up saying that they're going through the filter of a guy AFTER voting him.

So, right now I was townie on HF, and I'm now looking kinda townie on Toad. I think the majority of his early posts on you are not convincing of anything because they're based on little and he explicitly hasn't read you.

Overall, I find his case terribly unconvincing, but I think it comes from the right place.

On January 25 2014 12:33 kitaman27 wrote:


I think it's a valid point that you weren't sharing any strong opinions or pushing a lynch on day one. Some of the things that I've said about how Foolishness treats the lynch could probably be applied to you as well, which is why I'm not eliminating you.

I disagree with the way he paints your absence from the lynch as "convenient" as if you planned to throw down a vote decided not to post because it benefited you. I think it's more likely that you simply weren't around. I'm also concerned about the fact that he seems to only take day one events into account. It's unclear how caught up with the thread he actually is.

Could you refer me to the posts that from yourself/gonzaw that you think best summarize the case against him?

On January 25 2014 12:33 kitaman27 wrote:


I think it's a valid point that you weren't sharing any strong opinions or pushing a lynch on day one. Some of the things that I've said about how Foolishness treats the lynch could probably be applied to you as well, which is why I'm not eliminating you.

I disagree with the way he paints your absence from the lynch as "convenient" as if you planned to throw down a vote decided not to post because it benefited you. I think it's more likely that you simply weren't around. I'm also concerned about the fact that he seems to only take day one events into account. It's unclear how caught up with the thread he actually is.

Could you refer me to the posts that from yourself/gonzaw that you think best summarize the case against him?

On January 25 2014 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote:

Your reasons for finding Toad towny in this post remind me of the reasons why I find VE towny.
What say you to that?

On January 25 2014 12:43 austinmcc wrote:
I'm not seeing the connection, tbh.

If you mean because you're townie on VE for conspiracy theories, I don't think that translates. Toad is less conspiracy theory and more...jumping straight into things, convinced, and PUSHING them.

I think, honestly, otherwise, you don't actually have good reasons to think VE is town. I think it relies very very heavily on both talking about sandroba, except that you are both saying the same FACTS. Sandroba being a lazy scum is known. Apparently sandroba not caring about pressure is KNOWN. You're not both taking in information and spitting out these same weird thoughts or anything, you're mostly just both saying "the sun is hot."

You have a minor point on VE's ragequitting, how it's honest, more likely town, but you ask whether he ragequits as scum. If you believe the answers to that question (marv said yes, dunno if anyone else chimed in), then...all that ragequit jazz is null now.

alktjghaelkteahtea. Whatever. I don't see why you think the reasoning on the two are similar. And I don't think you have good points about VE. Sry.

On January 25 2014 12:49 austinmcc wrote:
It's a shit case on N1/D2, when he replaces in, in which he, at times, says things that put up big neon lights going O NOT TRUST THIS CASE IN THE LEAST*.

I have played with scumToad, and I feel like USUALLY he gets himself caught trying to do something tricky, or clever, or fun, but that was in themed games. I don't see the scumToad that I've read translating, even in a vanilla game, to O NOT TRUST MY CASE* ALSO HERE IS MY CASE.

At least to me, the toad that just blunders into replacing and is part wrong on some timings, is making accusations based on very little, whatever, is PROBABLY town.

It's the WAY he's making his case and the WAY he's tunneling you that I attribute to him being townie.

Prome's long case on VE (not gonna copy it here)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=51#1002
Some of it is fairly decent---he;s right in that VE around the lynch looked crappy and he didn't do a whole lot in the day, but then he is MASSIVLEY hypocritical with the stuff that compares the two of us:

Ultimately when gonzaw said it was VE's 'trial by fire' he has the right of it---his actions and behaviours don't always quite line up but if he doesn't show up to steer us in the right direction (one way or another) he is going to be lynched today. I for one would be very glad to talk with him to figure him out and prove things to the thread once and for all. The only way I will be voting VE today is if he gives up entirely; until then I consider him town.

On January 25 2014 12:56 austinmcc wrote:
Sorry for spam, I need to consolidate.

WoS, I'm actually interested in your right-now-up-to-the-minute stock ticker read of VE. I see stuff like this and

I KNOW THAT THESE THINGS DON'T MAKE VE SCUM

but

You admit that VE has some stuff that, at the very least, looks objectively scummy from D1. You note that a giving up VE gets your vote, and that he can show his colors by showing up to steer things in the right direction.

Do you believe he has taken control of the wheel? Given/not given up?