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Starcraft in Africa - Page 7

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Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
April 09 2012 08:32 GMT
#121
On April 08 2012 03:33 snakeyezz wrote:
The amount of ignorance here is shocking...

I am South African and I totally play sc2 with my pet Cheetah.


Wouldn't be awesome?

Every country and region have different cultures and unique approach to gaming in broad sense. Japan is one of the most developed country in the world but gaming especially PC gaming level is below most of the countries.
Also in my country broadband internet is pretty common but competitive SC2 gaming is nearly nonexistent. There are some tourney and lots of master level players but not like Korea or Sweden. It is all about culture and approaching to gaming. You can be a progamer at 14 in Korea, in Turkey you should prepare your high school/collage exams, there is no other option.

I think it is all about culture, acceptance of gaming and overall infrastructure.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 08:34:42
April 09 2012 08:33 GMT
#122
On April 08 2012 08:08 Flonomenalz wrote:
Well I'm currently playing from Nigeria, and the lag to NA isn't too bad, some days it's pretty good, other days it's awful. The internet in Nigeria as a whole is pretty terrible, I should probably play on EU but I don't feel like making another account and getting to low Masters all over again (ugh, it was so hard with my connection t.t...)

Anyway, PC gaming here (in Nigeria) is pretty non existent, almost any gamer I know plays console games, predominantly FIFA/PES or shooters.

I can make a statement with almost near certainty that I am one of maybe, MAYBE 3-5 Nigerian SC2 players in the entire country, and that's being optimistic. There might be some foreigners on a visit to the country that play SC2, but that doesn't really count.

So yeah, don't expect SC in Africa to be going anywhere anytime soon.

3 players? lol. And Nigeria is a rich country. I'd like to see Chad's, or the congo numbers. It's just not worth it to blizz simple as that.
MC for president
Davidsomedoit
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa4 Posts
April 09 2012 08:37 GMT
#123
Blizzard has pretty much always ignored its African market, a small example would be BNet Authentication Dongles which only became available in SA for purchase in the past ten months, unless you downloaded a buggy Android version that would completely forget which cell phone network you belonged to.

When you look at the amount of WOW players in SA, companies like WTFFast make a small fortune as they provide stable pings of between 300 and 800 ms to EU and US servers. Petition after petition for just ONE! WOW realm or forwarding authentication server has fallen on deaf ears for years, even when reaching a community of over 10000 players, to Blizzard our market is rather insignificant.

Under these conditions though, a very different kind of gamer is bread and developed, in almost complete isolation as the world passes us by, so it is no small surprise that Blizzard didn't include us in their grand plans of a Starcraft World Championship, irrespective of weather we have players that can actually compete, we are just not important enough
Building number 7
redemption
Profile Joined February 2006
United States112 Posts
April 09 2012 08:45 GMT
#124
On April 08 2012 04:35 Eiaco wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 04:20 Mondieu wrote:
On April 07 2012 09:11 bblack wrote:
With the StarCraft II World Championship Series being announced there have been many questions about the way the world gets divided into 5 continents. Although most people are commenting on Asia-related divisions, to me the most remarkable observation lies in there not being an African continent representative.
While I follow the pro scene quite fanatically and am well aware that there aren't any African pro players, it did get me wondering.

I always figured that SC (and other skill / practice related professions like break-dancing) has grown so large in Korea because it's very difficult to develop a school and work career over there. Even if you're smart, you might have difficulty of being successful.
Then I imagine that the same goes for a lot of less developed countries in, for example, Africa. If you can make a living by becoming successful in SC, as it is right now, why don't any Africans seem to go train full time as a career path?
Is it something to do with technology and internet being unavailable, or lack of teams to support starting pro's, or just ignorance of the possibility, or.. ?

Looking at previous posts, there is some SC action going on in South Afrika, but that does overall seem to be the most 'western' country of the continent anyway.

So, it comes down to this:
I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
Why is that the case?



How can you compare South Korea as a country to any country in Africa ? The economy of S.Korea I think is 10x++ stronger than any african country. Africa though develops quite fast I reckon ( less population/square2). The first paragragh in the OP is wrong.


The rich part of South Africa is much richer than South Korea. Ill try and keep race out of this but its very difficult to, 6 million South Africans live in western-like luxury whilst 44 million South Africans live in utter poverty. Some of the North African Countries are fairly oil rich. Everything in-between North of Arfica (Morrocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya and Egypt) and South Africa seems to be in complete and utter poverty though.

You can't separate the "rich part" of South Africa from the "poor part" of South Africa when talking about national economy. A nation's GDP is calculated as a whole.
Davidsomedoit
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa4 Posts
April 09 2012 08:49 GMT
#125
On April 09 2012 03:24 Xann wrote:
it isnt part of South African culture because the white supremacists occupied it and humiliated my african brothers


Stupid troll, you should be great-full that you live in the US, acting as though you have a sense of entitlement, you deserve nothing with a comment like that. Get back to picking cotton Kunta Kinte

User was temp banned for this post.
Building number 7
redemption
Profile Joined February 2006
United States112 Posts
April 09 2012 08:54 GMT
#126
And everyone's ignoring the obvious.... To be a pro, someone has to pay you to play. If there isn't a significant eSports market in Africa, who will pay you? I guess you could get picked up by a foreign team, but you'd have to invest quite some time into getting good enough to even make that a possibility. And without a large SC scene, it's probably even harder to get really good (not impossible).

Sacrificing the opportunity for a regular job for a chance to turn pro is simply a very high risk, low reward scenario... anywhere. But probably especially so in Africa.
Coeus1
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland160 Posts
April 09 2012 09:01 GMT
#127
I wouldn't even call NA&EU countries developed after reading this thread.
xxx
ScLogan
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
South Africa9 Posts
April 09 2012 09:34 GMT
#128
This has probably been said before and from what I can read on this, a lot of people here are so fucking ignorant it makes my skin crawl.

Then again, when the Miss America can't even point out where on the map America is, you have to wonder, and yes xann, I am talking to you. Your comments were the ones that stood out the most because you just don't know shit and making comments on what you THINK you know. Come down here and have a braai and a good dop, then we will take you to go and meet your 'African Brothers' as you call it. Trust me, you don't want to.

Now this does sound racist but unfortunately a lot of people don't realise what has happened here in the past or can comment on why we are not part of the world championships. All I know is this:
A few nights ago I had dinner with a freind of mine, black, named Joseph and his wife and two kids. We have been friends since high school and he has done well and pushed himself to succeed. However, his brother, feels that everything must be given to him and that he is owed a living. Joseph, has never been to jail, one of the greatest guys I know, but Thabo has been in and out of jail quite a bit, has never applied himself to succeed and like a lot of the rural community has been misinformed by their own governement, their own people, on how things work. This country needs more Josephs and less Africans like xann and Thabo cause they are the ones that create the stigma.

The other problem exists, as what redemption of US stated and thank you for that, is that South Africa does not have the proper infrastructure or 'awareness' of the potency of E-Sports as it is labeled more as a 'video game'. We relied primarily on a group of people who were more interested in their own gain on the money that E-Sports would line their pockets than actually doing something constructive with it. We have rules and regualtions just like any other country and we need to look at what is needed to grow the community of E-Sports and put people into tournaments and get the recognition. Sitting and hoping that it will happen is just what the rest of the workd expects. We are on a long road and a journey, and maybe this year or the next year we might not be there, but we will. We have some amazing players here in South Africa, PandaTank is one of them, but we also have Shase and Seem, all good players who could be potential competitors in the future.

We have jobs, lives, families that we have to look after and maybe the generation now cannot make an impact, but the future generation will. We have been held back by a lot of mistakes in our countries past based on decisions of men who were not even South African but we have come a lot further in 10 years or so to what America has come in 60. To label us is ignorant and extremely stupid. Browse the internet on news of South Africa rather than ASSUME you know something.

For me, what I see and what you don't see, is the future that is so exciting for us. I am an admin and co-owner of one of the largest MGO's in South Africa. With the potential base and player base that just oozes with good stuff. It is not my job that gets me out of bed every morning, it is the excitement and passion that I see over here, that will allow us to move forward, because we want to be able to take part in the Championship one day. Patience is a virtue and will take a lot of hard work - but I can't wait for when it happens. It is going to be sweet!

And now - just for the ignorant - I need to go and walk the 10kms to go get some water. I have no shoes and the dirt roads have quite a bit of thorns. The elephant is not feeling well and my pet lion needs a walk anyway. I would mow the grass in the back yard but I don't have a mower big enough for veld. THen I will come back to my mud hut, light a candle, wind up the generator and hopefully get enough power to turn on my PC to play some games. Hopefully the stringed cup we get our internet from will provide good enough single for a game or two, unless the string has frayed which will mean another 10 - 20km walk. Anyway, might see you online at around 10 tonight if all goes well
Cry Havoc! and let loose the dogs of war
yomi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States773 Posts
April 09 2012 09:56 GMT
#129
On April 07 2012 09:11 bblack wrote:
With the StarCraft II World Championship Series being announced there have been many questions about the way the world gets divided into 5 continents. Although most people are commenting on Asia-related divisions, to me the most remarkable observation lies in there not being an African continent representative.
While I follow the pro scene quite fanatically and am well aware that there aren't any African pro players, it did get me wondering.

I always figured that SC (and other skill / practice related professions like break-dancing) has grown so large in Korea because it's very difficult to develop a school and work career over there. Even if you're smart, you might have difficulty of being successful.
Then I imagine that the same goes for a lot of less developed countries in, for example, Africa. If you can make a living by becoming successful in SC, as it is right now, why don't any Africans seem to go train full time as a career path?
Is it something to do with technology and internet being unavailable, or lack of teams to support starting pro's, or just ignorance of the possibility, or.. ?

Looking at previous posts, there is some SC action going on in South Afrika, but that does overall seem to be the most 'western' country of the continent anyway.

So, it comes down to this:
I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
Why is that the case?

EDIT: lot's of people get bogged down on one-liners, saying Africans need food, not gaming, or that I'm retarded for even posting this.
Perhaps I've been unfortunate in my choice of words or the example of Korea (it was just something that got me thinking, not all that relevant to this post). So, to be more clear:

My point is, here in Europe everyone can get into college if you are intelligent enough and want to. You don't need to have money to back it up, and there are more than enough spots for everyone. If you happen to live somewhere where that is not the case, then it might be more tempting to pursue a career in gaming, if there is enough money to be gained by doing so.
If that's a risk that you are able to take, and the alternatives aren't all that safe either, I imagine more people would try to turn pro. The could go for people in some African countries.

I'm not suggesting anything here, merely posing a question. Africa isn't entirely as underdeveloped as you might think, and as it has been pointed out: a lot of African people get into soccer in hopes of being a paid pro.
So why not SC?


1
SC is not a viable profession. There are exceedingly few players that make a living off of tournament winnings alone. Those that do are true SC pros. There's maybe 5 guys who can honestly say this. The rest of them are living off their sponsorship dollars. Meaning they are pro at playing starcraft. Getting sponsored is the key. Not a lot of Africans watch SC. Africans aren't an important advertising market. Therefore there are no African pros. This is not to imply that getting sponsored is a viable career path either. This is like saying why don't more poor black kids focus on basketball.

Same goes for break dancing. I mean really? Jesus christ dude....

2
"here in Europe everyone can get into college if you are intelligent enough and want to"
This is false.

3
Korea is not an underdeveloped country. They are a first world country and are very advanced. Their primary and secondary schools are some of the best in the world and Seoul University is a very good school. Intelligent Koreans have no problem starting a career. Your country has almost 150% the unemployment rate of Korea and is one of the only countries in the world experiencing negative GDP growth. Korea is going strong at a steady 3%.

SoniC_eu
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark1008 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 10:11:06
April 09 2012 10:04 GMT
#130
U need a good infrastructure to play sc2. South AFrica, Morocco, (perhaps) Kenya might have that..Maybe more? You need a good internet penetration, decent computer AND a steady supply of electricity and most of africa doesnt have that.
To play soccer u need a 2 posts and a ball...It's just easier for kids to play soccer & scout talents. And like it has been said before, Africans don't follow Esports atm. U would have to have a int'l team with int'l sponsors, which I am sure is possible...
Are there any sc2 african pros / teams atm? Can someone link to them ty
In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure. http://da.twitch.tv/sonic_eu
ZpuX
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Sweden1230 Posts
April 09 2012 10:14 GMT
#131
On April 09 2012 18:34 ScLogan wrote:
This has probably been said before and from what I can read on this, a lot of people here are so fucking ignorant it makes my skin crawl.

Then again, when the Miss America can't even point out where on the map America is, you have to wonder, and yes xann, I am talking to you. Your comments were the ones that stood out the most because you just don't know shit and making comments on what you THINK you know. Come down here and have a braai and a good dop, then we will take you to go and meet your 'African Brothers' as you call it. Trust me, you don't want to.

Now this does sound racist but unfortunately a lot of people don't realise what has happened here in the past or can comment on why we are not part of the world championships. All I know is this:
A few nights ago I had dinner with a freind of mine, black, named Joseph and his wife and two kids. We have been friends since high school and he has done well and pushed himself to succeed. However, his brother, feels that everything must be given to him and that he is owed a living. Joseph, has never been to jail, one of the greatest guys I know, but Thabo has been in and out of jail quite a bit, has never applied himself to succeed and like a lot of the rural community has been misinformed by their own governement, their own people, on how things work. This country needs more Josephs and less Africans like xann and Thabo cause they are the ones that create the stigma.

The other problem exists, as what redemption of US stated and thank you for that, is that South Africa does not have the proper infrastructure or 'awareness' of the potency of E-Sports as it is labeled more as a 'video game'. We relied primarily on a group of people who were more interested in their own gain on the money that E-Sports would line their pockets than actually doing something constructive with it. We have rules and regualtions just like any other country and we need to look at what is needed to grow the community of E-Sports and put people into tournaments and get the recognition. Sitting and hoping that it will happen is just what the rest of the workd expects. We are on a long road and a journey, and maybe this year or the next year we might not be there, but we will. We have some amazing players here in South Africa, PandaTank is one of them, but we also have Shase and Seem, all good players who could be potential competitors in the future.

We have jobs, lives, families that we have to look after and maybe the generation now cannot make an impact, but the future generation will. We have been held back by a lot of mistakes in our countries past based on decisions of men who were not even South African but we have come a lot further in 10 years or so to what America has come in 60. To label us is ignorant and extremely stupid. Browse the internet on news of South Africa rather than ASSUME you know something.

For me, what I see and what you don't see, is the future that is so exciting for us. I am an admin and co-owner of one of the largest MGO's in South Africa. With the potential base and player base that just oozes with good stuff. It is not my job that gets me out of bed every morning, it is the excitement and passion that I see over here, that will allow us to move forward, because we want to be able to take part in the Championship one day. Patience is a virtue and will take a lot of hard work - but I can't wait for when it happens. It is going to be sweet!

And now - just for the ignorant - I need to go and walk the 10kms to go get some water. I have no shoes and the dirt roads have quite a bit of thorns. The elephant is not feeling well and my pet lion needs a walk anyway. I would mow the grass in the back yard but I don't have a mower big enough for veld. THen I will come back to my mud hut, light a candle, wind up the generator and hopefully get enough power to turn on my PC to play some games. Hopefully the stringed cup we get our internet from will provide good enough single for a game or two, unless the string has frayed which will mean another 10 - 20km walk. Anyway, might see you online at around 10 tonight if all goes well

Wow your post is amazing, I hope you succeed in what you are trying to make and I will use this as inspiration for what ever I am doing in the future. The last part was golden, need to be saved for future references
Really, play for fun!
Davidsomedoit
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa4 Posts
April 09 2012 10:26 GMT
#132
On April 09 2012 19:04 SoniC_eu wrote:
U need a good infrastructure to play sc2. South AFrica, Morocco, (perhaps) Kenya might have that..Maybe more? You need a good internet penetration, decent computer AND a steady supply of electricity and most of africa doesnt have that.
To play soccer u need a 2 posts and a ball...It's just easier for kids to play soccer & scout talents. And like it has been said before, Africans don't follow Esports atm. U would have to have a int'l team with int'l sponsors, which I am sure is possible...
Are there any sc2 african pros / teams atm? Can someone link to them ty



To name a few...

http://bravadogaming.com/
http://www.vitriolic-gaming.com/
http://www.mintgaming.co.za/
Building number 7
ScLogan
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
South Africa9 Posts
April 09 2012 11:35 GMT
#133
Don't forget www.spartancompany.co.za
Cry Havoc! and let loose the dogs of war
CryTT
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa19 Posts
April 09 2012 12:19 GMT
#134
Our teams are hardly at pro level, and our sponsors are tiny. However, we have teams, we have sponsors (even if they are small sponsorships: One that we have at mintgaming is an unshaped internet account that we can play off to reduce our latency a bit).

Too many people are still saying that a viable pro career would be football over starcraft 2. That is, once again, irrelevant. This world championship isn't targeting those that can't play sc2, but at those that can.

People in Africa don't watch e-sports? Blatantly false. I personally was up till 5:30-6 am watching the GSTL finals after IPL. I've watched every GSL from open season 2. Watched as many IPL, MLG and dreamhack games I can and frequently browse sc2rep.com.
QQzz
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 09 2012 18:57 GMT
#135
See a lot of posters from South Africa only. That should answer the question enough. Out of hundreds of millions and dozens of countries only a few in one country are interested. Just bad business to start a server, man it, etc for low numbers. It's like selling snow cones on the North Pole.
MC for president
Cortza
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
South Africa328 Posts
April 09 2012 19:18 GMT
#136
On April 10 2012 03:57 tdt wrote:
It's like selling snow cones on the North Pole.


More like selling snow cones in the Sahara... to people who can't afford them, but w/e.

FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
April 09 2012 19:23 GMT
#137
Your edit makes things even worse. They try to get into soccer after showing promise on the streets. You think even a remote portion of the population can afford a computer that can run SC2? A computer that can even run SC2 on low is going to cost like $700 there minimum, assuming they know how to build hte sucker themselves, then they have to show promise. Most of them can't even afford the luxury of SC2, let alone try to go pro at it.
Arachne
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
South Africa426 Posts
April 09 2012 19:24 GMT
#138
The server thread is somewhere else. This thread is about "how can it be a World Championship without including the World?|"

As you said, there are a lot of people posting from South Africa. Why can't we get a shot? (And by that I mean Pandatank, and anyone feeling that they can beat him (of which there are a couple))
If I were a rich man, I wouldn't be here
TechniQ.UK
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United Kingdom391 Posts
April 09 2012 19:40 GMT
#139
Having lived in Zambia for a while which is a fairly standard African country if you can call it that. Fairly politically stable, low-mid income (according to UN), some infrastructure and yet still 60% of the country lives under the UN poverty line. This is sort of comparable to what I think the situation is in most stable African countries. Ghana, Ethiopia, Malawi etc...

The reasons that Starcraft II would be practically impossible there is:

A) Broadband internet is a luxury even for a business nevermind an individual family. It's expensive, usually runs at around 0.25 MBPS (250kbps?) for a business package. Most internet usage is done through internet cafe's or mobile pay-as-you go dongles which run at or less than dial up speed (and even that is a luxury for most people).

B) The only people buying high powered PC's capable of running SC2 would be expats from places like the US, china and maybe India these days living in very secure compounds in some wealthy suburbs of these nations. I met very few Zambians who had computers, and the ones who did had fairly old models running XP. Even the Zambian government offices had old dells that were donated by some UN aid programme. There are some western style computer shops but they are located in the large shopping malls that are really there for expats and very very wealthy zambians and even then computers and parts that we are used to have limited availability.

C) Not only is internet a problem, but power is a problem. I met many Zambians who reletively speaking were in the middle classes of their nation and yet still there would be days or weeks where they could not afford to pay the power company. Also the power is always going out for hours at a time even in the capital city. For rural areas this is obviously much much worse.

D) This point is a little more cultural than practical. Starcraft II and Starcraft is a very time based game. You have build orders, thin timing in which to get everything done in order to survive or succeed and it's also all very logical, abstract and individual as a game. There is not much teamwork because most of the tournaments and high level play is done at 1v1 levels. All of this sort of goes against the African way of life. Africans value communal living, teamwork and human interaction above individualistic lifestyles and I think that this would apply to gaming for them as well. Also time is not really all that important in Africa, if an African is on his way to work, and he sees a friend in the street, even if it will make him late for work, they both culturally have to stop and have a conversation. This is not even largely frowned upon by employers, I mean being 40 minutes late for church, work, appointments, meeting friends is standard and in fact its usually more like 2-3 hours that you wait for people. The term used to describe this by many people is "Africa time". If a person shows up 2-3 hours late you shouldn't expect an apology, because culturally he's done nothing wrong and this is normal. It's great in some ways, but it perhaps shows you that a game based around strict time keeping and individualistic play would not take off in Africa.

I could go on but that's my take on it. I'm not expert I was only living there for 3 months. An exception would be South Africa which is the wealthiest African nation by far, has a lot of western ideals, good infrastructure for power, broadband and access to the same computing equipment and gaming communities as we do for the most part. I can imagine a lot of white south african teenagers playing starcraft II for example.

Fan of: Acer.Scarlett and Liquid'NonY //
ScLogan
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
South Africa9 Posts
April 09 2012 19:40 GMT
#140
On April 10 2012 04:23 FabledIntegral wrote:
Your edit makes things even worse. They try to get into soccer after showing promise on the streets. You think even a remote portion of the population can afford a computer that can run SC2? A computer that can even run SC2 on low is going to cost like $700 there minimum, assuming they know how to build hte sucker themselves, then they have to show promise. Most of them can't even afford the luxury of SC2, let alone try to go pro at it.


Another sign of ignorance here - absolutely wonderful.
Cry Havoc! and let loose the dogs of war
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