Trickster, Fruitdealer, and now Puma have left TSL now. There must be wrong with the management of TSL if their star players are leaving the team. I think players should come first and if a team doesn't take care of their players it's best if the players can find a team which will support them better. TSL has no right to complain if their players leave to try and find better support for their careers.
On July 21 2011 16:46 KeksX wrote: Do you guys even UNDERSTAND what the Coach was saying there? The real issue here is between PuMa and him. PuMa betrayed him and his team.
I can't understand how you can say that this is okay so easily. I want a clarification of PuMa, not Scoots. PuMa made the dickmove here.
wait what? most of what coach lee said was that he felt disrespected by EG.
EG made the offer, but PuMa accepted it. In the end it is PuMa's move to leave TSL and go to EG.
On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote: Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
It's very simple. Had EG contacted TSL for the said player "PuMa", it's more than likely that TSL agreed to having the player join the team EG and everyone would have been happy. But because EG went behind the player's team and his coach/manager, we now ended up with this retarded fiasco.
Oh please. Do you actually believe the bullshit you just typed?
EG always doing something shady, not a good pickup Puma not a proven winner, not even in the GSL. Just 1 tournament. Who knows how this will turn out. Kind of like Rain with Fnatic, back picks ups...
On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote: Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
I think you're scenarios are a bit off. It's more like TSL is upset that EG didn't contact TSL first. If they had, they skill could have agreed to either scenario.
Or they could have told EG to take a hike and not told Puma, because they already lost 3 big players and would look terrible to sponsors if they lost the newly crowned NASL champion.
In the end it's really simple - you either think it should be up to the player to decide on his career, or you think it should be up to the team, because they "made" the player. I think that's the crux of this argument and neither side will convince the other.
idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad
Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team!
But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid
Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few.
He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca
Nobody in EG won anything significant recently.
Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh.
So the IPL Season 1 isnt big enough for the big and mighty eSports follower Talin.
Alex Garfield of EG talked to a lot of players at NASL, he approached Sen for example. I don't think it's particularly wrong for a conversation to take place, especially when you're at an event and just socializing with people... but it's more about actually putting a deal in place without going through the proper channels that it becomes wrong in my opinion.
For example, I have no problem talking to players (let's say DIMAGA) and saying "hey I'm wondering if you'd be interested in joining Fnatic." But knowing that he's a player on a team, that's really where the conversation needs to end. Anything further becomes a disrespect to the actual team and the whole idea of esports.
On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote: Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
It's very simple. Had EG contacted TSL for the said player "PuMa", it's more than likely that TSL agreed to having the player join the team EG and everyone would have been happy. But because EG went behind the player's team and his coach/manager, we now ended up with this retarded fiasco.
That makes sense. Sirscoots:"Hey Coach Lee we want you're best player" Coach Lee: Sure Scoots!
Now would that make any sense xD
Right.... so the other option must be to steal the player behind the team's back. That makes even more sense
On July 21 2011 16:28 Soleron wrote: Why does anyone think his practice will degrade?
It doesn't say he's leaving Korea. It's normal to have many practice partners outside your team anyway, so why would he stop practising with them? Puma wouldn't get this good by just practising against Clide, FD and Trickster up to now. So he'll likely continue to practice with who he has been, maybe even including his own team.
Why would any progamer in Korea want to willingly practice "for" PuMa now that he's not even in Korea? Think about it, who's more important - people you see and talk everyday or someone who's living in completely different country?
Sure, PuMa will get to ladder vs Koreans as long as he keeps his Korean ID, but laddering is completely different than practicing.
I'm sure he has some close friends... Unless Korean culture is not what I expect it to be =/
Ladder is definitely different from inhouse practice and what do you think korean players will priortize? Practicing with teammates or with PuMa who left korea for greener pastures?
On July 21 2011 16:28 Mycl wrote: From SirScoots via twitter
"I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes"
Such a stupid response from scoots.. Really? We are only going off what we have, what more facts can we check? lmfao.. how about you give us some instead of sitting on your high-horse and thinking of anyway you can justify this horrible display of ethics and lack of respect..
No response at all would be much more professional than this trash..
you can wait to make an irrational emotion fueled post until we have more facts.
or you can spew your nonsense like you just did.
How long are we suppose to wait? We have plenty of facts right here (Puma on TSL -> Puma NASL -> Puma released -> Puma EG), and you want us to just sit here while scoots/EG make up a nice little fairytale? He just took a jab at the whole community, without clarifying anything at all..
God forbid we wait more than an hour and a half (with the story breaking at 11:00PM PDT) for the other half of the story, WE HAVE FACTS!!!!
The problem is that time is actually of the essence in a situation like this. If EG takes too long to come out with the announcement, people are going to infer that they spent that extra time trying to tailor a nicer story than perhaps what the actual truth might be. EG management should know EXACTLY what happened, and, seriously, it doesn't take long to type up a couple paragraphs that would clarify everything. Certainly, it wouldn't take an hour. Half an hour, tops, if they really wanted to just clarify everything cleanly.
This.
The fact that scoots is willing to tweet about us not having the facts without giving us the facts just points more towards this being the truth..
Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit.
You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it.
Last time I heard someone call someone else a conspiracy theorist was when Scoots said Incontrol didn't leave SOTG because of EG involvement, and said everyone who thought so was a conspiracy theorist!
On topic though, I don't really like it (would rather see Puma on TSL) but good for Puma for making more money I guess.
On July 21 2011 15:41 Angelbelow wrote: Haha i dont understand how there are so many butt hurt fans???
Do you guys really think EG stole him? does that even make sense?
EG made an offer and TSL couldnt match it. TSL is falling apart, they lost 4 of their top players, all within a few weeks. Rain, Trickster, FD, and now Puma. Something is wrong and dysfunctional with that team and I wouldn't be surprised if they disband soon.
This.
SC2 community can be really funny sometimes. Any piece of news can be turned into a recipe for disaster and apocalypse. Remember "YOU'RE RUINING ESPORTS!!11" thing?
TSL has already been losing blood. EG made an offer to Puma that he can't refuse, Puma accepted, end of story. Who cares what some Koreans think about it?
I'm happy for EG, Puma will really add to the team a lot.
I'd have no problem with the scenario you described, if people want to leave that's fine. What you're not considering is that EG shadily dodged Puma's management and basically stole their player from them, who may or may not have been contracted. Either way, you contact the team that he plays for before he makes the move, not after a deal has already been made.
My question is how do you know this forsure? "Steal" is too subjective of a word to be thrown around right now.
Coach lee says he was stolen, sirscoots says we need to check out facts. who to believe?
Its obvious youve put all your eggs into Coach Lee's story. I'm not convinced this situation is so simple.
SirScoots hasn't said shit. I read his tweet and that's so vague it could be talking about anything; nor does he attempt to explain his side of the story when he's clearly been aware of it and has been for hours. Before the EG fanboys say that it 'takes time", all you have to do is write a short 5-sentence paragraph much like Coach Lee did. That take what, 5 minutes at best? I'm sure they'll wait a week and then yell at straw man arguments for 2 hours on Live on Three like they did with Incontrol/SoTG.
Disappointing to see Manager Lee turn this into a foreigner vs Koreans thing. I don't really understand why EG did that, but in any case I wish Puma the best of luck.
I am completely disagree with the way EG approach the player like this, it is always compulsory and manner to talk to the team manager or coach first, then they will decide if they will allow EG to contact the player or not, things could have gone the other way. Coach lee respected Puma wishes and release him instead of keeping him, i really admire him for that. This shit + the FXO buy Fou, is this how the foreigners approach the korean? This is not expand starcraft 2 to the wolrd anymore, this is more like an invasion of the foreigner instead, i wish things could be like in the old days of BW
Seriously, fuck the management, of course they are going to cry about losing one of their best players. TSL is falling apart and Puma took a great opportunity, so good for him. I think it would be awesome for more teams to do this. Go EG!!
On July 21 2011 16:48 InstantKarma wrote: Trickster, Fruitdealer, and now Puma have left TSL now. There must be wrong with the management of TSL if their star players are leaving the team. I think players should come first and if a team doesn't take care of their players it's best if the players can find a team which will support them better. TSL has no right to complain if their players leave to try and find better support for their careers.
Don't forget Rain, he was still a Code S player when he left and from what I understand TSL had a small roster before these four left to begin with.
EPT
