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On July 21 2011 16:43 TheRidd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca Nobody in EG won anything significant recently. Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Look at Nada. Consistent RO4 RO8 in the GSL. That means a lot doesn't it ?
Nobody in EG is consistently RO4/RO8 of the GSL either.
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On July 21 2011 16:40 Aetherial wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"
Player contracts?
there isn't enough sponsorship money in Korean SC2 where teams can start signing players to iron clad contracts
making players sign contracts with little monetary incentive behind it makes little sense for the player
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On July 21 2011 16:42 cfnz wrote:
thanks to EG we now get to see Puma at alot of foreign events, only reason you should be pissed is if you are korean or a foreigner pro, which none of you bronze heroes are. so when you see Puma at MLG/dreamhack/iem whatever, then remeber who made it possible. not TSL thats for sure.
No, it's about how we do business in E-sport in general - Asking players to simply drop out of contracts and then signing them is extremely unfair to the teams/organizations that provide the costly conditions of talent breeding
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On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote:
Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
It's very simple. Had EG contacted TSL for the said player "PuMa", it's more than likely that TSL agreed to having the player join the team EG and everyone would have been happy. But because EG went behind the player's team and his coach/manager, we now ended up with this retarded fiasco.
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On July 21 2011 16:43 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:33 PikaXchU wrote:Your family allows you to go over to your friend's house for the weekends. On Sunday, your friend's parents offer you to stay at their house instead of your house, and in return gives you much more allowance than your parents give and some other benefits. Well, you take this offer, and you get home, pack your things and tell your parents you are not staying with them anymore. How exactly would your parents feel? Players are not children and professional teams are not parents. The fact that this drivel is being sold as a "cultural" thing leads to exploitative organizations like Kespa. It's all well and good to have loyalty and respect for "parents", but what if they treat you as slave labor and make a profit off of you? None of us know the details of Puma's relationship with TSL. We just know the management is complaining about a "lack of respect". It's in their best interests to paint this as a cultural affront.
TL painted it as a cultural affront, TSL jus said they weren't contacted. It's not even a Korean thing, I'm American born and raised and I think that poaching a player without contacting his team is dumb and shady.
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On July 21 2011 16:42 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:41 Bleak wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Angelbelow wrote:
Haha i dont understand how there are so many butt hurt fans???
Do you guys really think EG stole him? does that even make sense?
EG made an offer and TSL couldnt match it. TSL is falling apart, they lost 4 of their top players, all within a few weeks. Rain, Trickster, FD, and now Puma. Something is wrong and dysfunctional with that team and I wouldn't be surprised if they disband soon. This. SC2 community can be really funny sometimes. Any piece of news can be turned into a recipe for disaster and apocalypse. Remember "YOU'RE RUINING ESPORTS!!11" thing? TSL has already been losing blood. EG made an offer to Puma that he can't refuse, Puma accepted, end of story. Who cares what some Koreans think about it? I'm happy for EG, Puma will really add to the team a lot. I'd have no problem with the scenario you described, if people want to leave that's fine. What you're not considering is that EG shadily dodged Puma's management and basically stole their player from them, who may or may not have been contracted. Either way, you contact the team that he plays for before he makes the move, not after a deal has already been made.
We only have the words of some disgruntled TSL coach. Until EG tells us their own version of story, I'd wait to throw in accusations.
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On July 21 2011 16:44 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:43 TheRidd wrote:On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca Nobody in EG won anything significant recently. Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Look at Nada. Consistent RO4 RO8 in the GSL. That means a lot doesn't it ? Nobody in EG is consistently RO4/RO8 of the GSL either.
That was actually what i was implying. I wasn't sarcastic :p
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On July 21 2011 15:48 nufcrulz wrote:
well im guessing there was no formal contract in place between puma and his team. if not why would TSL just be so willing to let go one of their star players. If there was a proper contract then Puma wouldn't have been able to do this in the first place
in any case i highly doubt EG is to blame for this..
i am curious about this as well
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On July 21 2011 16:41 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:40 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:39 HolyArrow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:35 BFCrimson wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 16:30 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:28 Mycl wrote:
From SirScoots via twitter
"I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes" Such a stupid response from scoots.. Really? We are only going off what we have, what more facts can we check? lmfao.. how about you give us some instead of sitting on your high-horse and thinking of anyway you can justify this horrible display of ethics and lack of respect.. No response at all would be much more professional than this trash.. you can wait to make an irrational emotion fueled post until we have more facts. or you can spew your nonsense like you just did. How long are we suppose to wait? We have plenty of facts right here (Puma on TSL -> Puma NASL -> Puma released -> Puma EG), and you want us to just sit here while scoots/EG make up a nice little fairytale? He just took a jab at the whole community, without clarifying anything at all.. God forbid we wait more than an hour and a half (with the story breaking at 11:00PM PDT) for the other half of the story, WE HAVE FACTS!!!! The problem is that time is actually of the essence in a situation like this. If EG takes too long to come out with the announcement, people are going to infer that they spent that extra time trying to tailor a nicer story than perhaps what the actual truth might be. EG management should know EXACTLY what happened, and, seriously, it doesn't take long to type up a couple paragraphs that would clarify everything. Certainly, it wouldn't take an hour. Half an hour, tops, if they really wanted to just clarify everything cleanly. This. The fact that scoots is willing to tweet about us not having the facts without giving us the facts just points more towards this being the truth.. Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit. You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it.
Very constructive post, I can see exactly where you are coming from :/
I can see it already, EG comes out with the (completely fabricated) statement claiming that TSL is a dying team and Puma expressed interest in joining EG during the NASL finals, they then went to TSL who decided to release Puma as they believed it was in the best interests of everyone involved.
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On July 21 2011 16:42 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:41 Bleak wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Angelbelow wrote:
Haha i dont understand how there are so many butt hurt fans???
Do you guys really think EG stole him? does that even make sense?
EG made an offer and TSL couldnt match it. TSL is falling apart, they lost 4 of their top players, all within a few weeks. Rain, Trickster, FD, and now Puma. Something is wrong and dysfunctional with that team and I wouldn't be surprised if they disband soon. This. SC2 community can be really funny sometimes. Any piece of news can be turned into a recipe for disaster and apocalypse. Remember "YOU'RE RUINING ESPORTS!!11" thing? TSL has already been losing blood. EG made an offer to Puma that he can't refuse, Puma accepted, end of story. Who cares what some Koreans think about it? I'm happy for EG, Puma will really add to the team a lot. I'd have no problem with the scenario you described, if people want to leave that's fine. What you're not considering is that EG shadily dodged Puma's management and basically stole their player from them, who may or may not have been contracted. Either way, you contact the team that he plays for before he makes the move, not after a deal has already been made.
Probably because TSL would have tried to guilt trip Puma out of a decision that was obviously his own and already made.
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On July 21 2011 16:44 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:43 TheRidd wrote:On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca Nobody in EG won anything significant recently. Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Look at Nada. Consistent RO4 RO8 in the GSL. That means a lot doesn't it ? Nobody in EG is consistently RO4/RO8 of the GSL either.
And nobody has the skills to be ro4/8 besides idra (not counting puma)
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On July 21 2011 16:44 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:43 TheRidd wrote:On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca Nobody in EG won anything significant recently. Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Look at Nada. Consistent RO4 RO8 in the GSL. That means a lot doesn't it ? Nobody in EG is consistently RO4/RO8 of the GSL either.
But Alot of people in EG are consistent. Idra always loses to koreans.. and now that Puma is on the team we can say that Puma is very consistent. At never qualifying.
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Do you guys even UNDERSTAND what the Coach was saying there?
The real issue here is between PuMa and him. PuMa betrayed him and his team.
I can't understand how you can say that this is okay so easily. I want a clarification of PuMa, not Scoots. PuMa made the dickmove here.
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On July 21 2011 16:45 TheRidd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:44 Talin wrote:On July 21 2011 16:43 TheRidd wrote:On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca Nobody in EG won anything significant recently. Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Look at Nada. Consistent RO4 RO8 in the GSL. That means a lot doesn't it ? Nobody in EG is consistently RO4/RO8 of the GSL either. That was actually what i was implying. I wasn't sarcastic :p
Oh damn. So hard to tell these days. 
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On July 21 2011 16:44 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:41 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 16:40 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:39 HolyArrow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:35 BFCrimson wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 16:30 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:28 Mycl wrote:
From SirScoots via twitter
"I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes" Such a stupid response from scoots.. Really? We are only going off what we have, what more facts can we check? lmfao.. how about you give us some instead of sitting on your high-horse and thinking of anyway you can justify this horrible display of ethics and lack of respect.. No response at all would be much more professional than this trash.. you can wait to make an irrational emotion fueled post until we have more facts. or you can spew your nonsense like you just did. How long are we suppose to wait? We have plenty of facts right here (Puma on TSL -> Puma NASL -> Puma released -> Puma EG), and you want us to just sit here while scoots/EG make up a nice little fairytale? He just took a jab at the whole community, without clarifying anything at all.. God forbid we wait more than an hour and a half (with the story breaking at 11:00PM PDT) for the other half of the story, WE HAVE FACTS!!!! The problem is that time is actually of the essence in a situation like this. If EG takes too long to come out with the announcement, people are going to infer that they spent that extra time trying to tailor a nicer story than perhaps what the actual truth might be. EG management should know EXACTLY what happened, and, seriously, it doesn't take long to type up a couple paragraphs that would clarify everything. Certainly, it wouldn't take an hour. Half an hour, tops, if they really wanted to just clarify everything cleanly. This. The fact that scoots is willing to tweet about us not having the facts without giving us the facts just points more towards this being the truth.. Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit. You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it. Theatrics and conspiracy bullshit? Spinning a situation to make yourself look good is a common practice. Coach Lee's reaction is enough evidence in my eyes to show that something went quite wrong with EG's acquiring of Puma.
Well maybe losing his fourth player in a matter of weeks is getting to him. He is clearly doing something wrong.
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On July 21 2011 16:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I still think Puma came to EG. EG isn't really known for poaching players, as people have mentioned before, they honor contracts. I think there's something much deeper going on here.
I believe there was pretty huge CS player poaching done in the past by EG.
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On July 21 2011 16:44 dc302 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote:
Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
I think you're scenarios are a bit off. It's more like TSL is upset that EG didn't contact TSL first. If they had, they skill could have agreed to either scenario.
Something tells me that if EG had sent an email to TSL saying,
"Hey, were interested in your ace player. Just a heads up, were ready to offer him a deal you can't match. Good luck with this."
They would still be as upset as they are right now.
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On July 21 2011 16:40 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:30 Shaxe wrote:On July 21 2011 16:29 vertigo1 wrote:
if i was a korean team right now i would be very careful about sending players abroad to take part in foreigner events if they know this sort of thing can happen. in fact, i perhaps wouldnt at all. And players will be unhappy because there's only 1 tournament in Korea... honestly that's the biggest issue to me after all the recent drama. perhaps the foreigner SC2 tournaments are simply greener pastures than the idiotically top heavy GSL structure that forces you through the no prize Code A tournament and up/down matches. this is SC2, a game that's been out for about a year. it has no guaranteed future and no long-standing history. it's booming right now in the US and Europe, so why not take advantage of that and go where the easy money is now? maybe the issue is that the GSL needs to shape up or ship out.
LG Super Tournament had a prize pool comparable to Dreamhack.
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DRAMAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Honestly I think it's only bad communication, it's hard to get in contact with manager etc. They made an offer to puma who transmitted it to the coach. He was probably not happy about it, but Puma already made his choice so he had to release him, contract or not ( because a player who is unhappy to play is not going to perform). It also looks like there is a problem with coach/player relationships in this team, there is reason FD Tester (and a third one I think?) left the team..
To sum it up: let's wait for EG's side of the story, I don't see anything that shocking for the moment, even if I understand why the coach is pissed ^^.
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On July 21 2011 16:42 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:41 Bleak wrote:On July 21 2011 15:41 Angelbelow wrote:
Haha i dont understand how there are so many butt hurt fans???
Do you guys really think EG stole him? does that even make sense?
EG made an offer and TSL couldnt match it. TSL is falling apart, they lost 4 of their top players, all within a few weeks. Rain, Trickster, FD, and now Puma. Something is wrong and dysfunctional with that team and I wouldn't be surprised if they disband soon. This. SC2 community can be really funny sometimes. Any piece of news can be turned into a recipe for disaster and apocalypse. Remember "YOU'RE RUINING ESPORTS!!11" thing? TSL has already been losing blood. EG made an offer to Puma that he can't refuse, Puma accepted, end of story. Who cares what some Koreans think about it? I'm happy for EG, Puma will really add to the team a lot. I'd have no problem with the scenario you described, if people want to leave that's fine. What you're not considering is that EG shadily dodged Puma's management and basically stole their player from them, who may or may not have been contracted. Either way, you contact the team that he plays for before he makes the move, not after a deal has already been made.
My question is how do you know this forsure? "Steal" is too subjective of a word to be thrown around right now.
Coach lee says he was stolen, sirscoots says we need to check out facts. who to believe?
Its obvious youve put all your eggs into Coach Lee's story. I'm not convinced this situation is so simple.
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EPT
