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This is a little weird.
On the one hand I'm thinking it's a good thing. Korea and the world getting again a bit closer together. One more korean that will participate regularly in international tournaments and without lag in western online tournaments.
Besides, it's also a good thing to have a team that can pay a player a salary. Good for puma in that way.
On the other hand it's the wrong way EG did it. You always talk to the manager. Approaching the player to sign a contract is like backstabbing his team.
Additionally I don't really know what to expect from puma in the future. I don't think he will ever play on that level again he currently plays. If he stays in korea, he will have no team to practise. If he goes to the EG house, he won't have a korean training house there. And there is also the language barrier.
While it might be a good decision for puma money-wise, it should be a bad one career-wise.
This is just different from Rain or Twilight. Puma is a really good player that can achieve good results in korea.
I don't really know what to think. I think the negative part outweights the positive part right now. Let's wait another week for more information and then some month to see what happens.
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On July 21 2011 16:39 Stamper wrote:
I kind of find it silly to blame PuMa. He is 18 years old, a kid, especially in Asia, where in most countries you are considered as such until you marry/become like 25-30. How can you blame the shy (source: NASL interviews) Korean kid for accepting a most likely really generous offer from a big foreign team with a lot of prestigious sponsors?
Besides it's probably not a legal issue, it has something to do with respect.
He's only 18 O_o
He's extremely confident and cocky for an 18 year old, but he basically is still a kid. I kind of feel bad for the flak he's going to get and what it will do to his mind if he lets it get to him.
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On July 21 2011 16:28 cENTRYZ wrote:
SirScoots twitter :
SirScoots SirScoots
I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes
Uhm not sure which journalism he means but if he means OP of this community news... a first hand source of a involved party should be good enough especially as it is explicitly stated that this is the source.
It's not even a news, its just a translation of a source... what does he expect? To ignore tweets from TSL head coach?
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On July 21 2011 16:40 Midgetman101 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:38 Mortal wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 Midgetman101 wrote:On July 21 2011 16:35 kOre wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 Midgetman101 wrote:
Clide tweeted about this All he tweeted was "..." lol I know lol :D I believe I can translate that. It read something along the lines of "I would love a piece of cake." May be a bit of a paraphrase. Thats a bit random o.o
I think he may be trying to lighten the situation and everyone seems a bit tense ^_^
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I still think Puma came to EG. EG isn't really known for poaching players, as people have mentioned before, they honor contracts. I think there's something much deeper going on here.
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On July 21 2011 16:40 IceSlipper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:39 HolyArrow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:35 BFCrimson wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 16:30 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:28 Mycl wrote:
From SirScoots via twitter
"I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes" Such a stupid response from scoots.. Really? We are only going off what we have, what more facts can we check? lmfao.. how about you give us some instead of sitting on your high-horse and thinking of anyway you can justify this horrible display of ethics and lack of respect.. No response at all would be much more professional than this trash.. you can wait to make an irrational emotion fueled post until we have more facts. or you can spew your nonsense like you just did. How long are we suppose to wait? We have plenty of facts right here (Puma on TSL -> Puma NASL -> Puma released -> Puma EG), and you want us to just sit here while scoots/EG make up a nice little fairytale? He just took a jab at the whole community, without clarifying anything at all.. God forbid we wait more than an hour and a half (with the story breaking at 11:00PM PDT) for the other half of the story, WE HAVE FACTS!!!! The problem is that time is actually of the essence in a situation like this. If EG takes too long to come out with the announcement, people are going to infer that they spent that extra time trying to tailor a nicer story than perhaps what the actual truth might be. EG management should know EXACTLY what happened, and, seriously, it doesn't take long to type up a couple paragraphs that would clarify everything. Certainly, it wouldn't take an hour. Half an hour, tops, if they really wanted to just clarify everything cleanly. This. The fact that scoots is willing to tweet about us not having the facts without giving us the facts just points more towards this being the truth..
Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit.
You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it.
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thanks to EG we now get to see Puma at alot of foreign events, only reason you should be pissed is if you are korean or a foreigner pro, which none of you bronze heroes are. so when you see Puma at MLG/dreamhack/iem whatever, then remeber who made it possible. not TSL thats for sure.
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On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca
Nobody in EG won anything significant recently.
Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh.
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On July 21 2011 16:29 Alpino wrote:
Fuck! You people are so naive and moral, I love Puma and that way I can see more of him.
yeah, that's a different way to look at this
lets just leave the boys cry and kick while some of us actually enjoy the game/team/whatever
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On July 21 2011 16:41 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:41 Angelbelow wrote:
Haha i dont understand how there are so many butt hurt fans???
Do you guys really think EG stole him? does that even make sense?
EG made an offer and TSL couldnt match it. TSL is falling apart, they lost 4 of their top players, all within a few weeks. Rain, Trickster, FD, and now Puma. Something is wrong and dysfunctional with that team and I wouldn't be surprised if they disband soon. This. SC2 community can be really funny sometimes. Any piece of news can be turned into a recipe for disaster and apocalypse. Remember "YOU'RE RUINING ESPORTS!!11" thing? TSL has already been losing blood. EG made an offer to Puma that he can't refuse, Puma accepted, end of story. Who cares what some Koreans think about it? I'm happy for EG, Puma will really add to the team a lot.
I'd have no problem with the scenario you described, if people want to leave that's fine. What you're not considering is that EG shadily dodged Puma's management and basically stole their player from them, who may or may not have been contracted. Either way, you contact the team that he plays for before he makes the move, not after a deal has already been made.
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On July 21 2011 16:34 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:28 Soleron wrote:
Why does anyone think his practice will degrade?
It doesn't say he's leaving Korea. It's normal to have many practice partners outside your team anyway, so why would he stop practising with them? Puma wouldn't get this good by just practising against Clide, FD and Trickster up to now. So he'll likely continue to practice with who he has been, maybe even including his own team. Why would any progamer in Korea want to willingly practice "for" PuMa now that he's not even in Korea? Think about it, who's more important - people you see and talk everyday or someone who's living in completely different country? Sure, PuMa will get to ladder vs Koreans as long as he keeps his Korean ID, but laddering is completely different than practicing.
I'm sure he has some close friends... Unless Korean culture is not what I expect it to be =/
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On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote:
Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
One of the more intelligent people posting in this thread, kudos to you!
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On July 21 2011 16:40 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote:
Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
Lol it's more than just Korean culture...you poach someone's players anywhere and I call it pretty fucking shady. You're also assuming he wasn't under a contract, whereas that's far from confirmed.
How can you not assume he wasnt under a contract? The contract is only as good as the wording in it. If its a half decent contract, TSL can forbid him from playing in any sc2 tournaments under the EG name. Kespa was able to manage to keep sc1 pros from playing sc2 while under contract, why cant TSL?
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On July 21 2011 16:33 PikaXchU wrote:Your family allows you to go over to your friend's house for the weekends. On Sunday, your friend's parents offer you to stay at their house instead of your house, and in return gives you much more allowance than your parents give and some other benefits. Well, you take this offer, and you get home, pack your things and tell your parents you are not staying with them anymore. How exactly would your parents feel?
Players are not children and professional teams are not parents.
The fact that this drivel is being sold as a "cultural" thing leads to exploitative organizations like Kespa. It's all well and good to have loyalty and respect for "parents", but what if they treat you as slave labor and make a profit off of you?
None of us know the details of Puma's relationship with TSL. We just know the management is complaining about a "lack of respect". It's in their best interests to paint this as a cultural affront.
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Really ridiculous... BTW probably was contracted by TSL with his salary and paid expenses, which is probably why he was "released" from TSL, and didn't "leave" TSL. Sure he accepted EG's offer, but he still wasn't in line to leave the team, as he was probably legally bound. Lee, knowing that Puma wanted to leave TSL, then allowed him to leave.
If I'm wrong someone correct me plz, but that's how I think it was.
Really sad for TSL... and interestingly enough, this makes me hope EG starts to fail even harder... Pay IdrA and Puma more than the rest of the team combined, still lose the majority of their clanwars, never win a clan league, and not benefit from the players as much as the players benefit from the orga.
Sorry that's mean to say right? But this move was just way out of line...
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On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:Team is doing poorly? Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck. Hope to win. + Show Spoiler + idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team! But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly. oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few. He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca Nobody in EG won anything significant recently. Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh.
Look at Nada. Consistent RO4 RO8 in the GSL. That means a lot doesn't it ?
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On July 21 2011 16:41 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:40 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:39 HolyArrow wrote:On July 21 2011 16:35 BFCrimson wrote:On July 21 2011 16:34 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:32 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 16:30 IceSlipper wrote:On July 21 2011 16:28 Mycl wrote:
From SirScoots via twitter
"I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes" Such a stupid response from scoots.. Really? We are only going off what we have, what more facts can we check? lmfao.. how about you give us some instead of sitting on your high-horse and thinking of anyway you can justify this horrible display of ethics and lack of respect.. No response at all would be much more professional than this trash.. you can wait to make an irrational emotion fueled post until we have more facts. or you can spew your nonsense like you just did. How long are we suppose to wait? We have plenty of facts right here (Puma on TSL -> Puma NASL -> Puma released -> Puma EG), and you want us to just sit here while scoots/EG make up a nice little fairytale? He just took a jab at the whole community, without clarifying anything at all.. God forbid we wait more than an hour and a half (with the story breaking at 11:00PM PDT) for the other half of the story, WE HAVE FACTS!!!! The problem is that time is actually of the essence in a situation like this. If EG takes too long to come out with the announcement, people are going to infer that they spent that extra time trying to tailor a nicer story than perhaps what the actual truth might be. EG management should know EXACTLY what happened, and, seriously, it doesn't take long to type up a couple paragraphs that would clarify everything. Certainly, it wouldn't take an hour. Half an hour, tops, if they really wanted to just clarify everything cleanly. This. The fact that scoots is willing to tweet about us not having the facts without giving us the facts just points more towards this being the truth.. Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit. You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it.
Theatrics and conspiracy bullshit? Spinning a situation to make yourself look good is a common practice. Coach Lee's reaction is enough evidence in my eyes to show that something went quite wrong with EG's acquiring of Puma.
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On July 21 2011 16:37 Kamuy wrote:
Good for Puma and EG. If both sides benefit from this then there is nothing wrong. Korean culture, blah blah blah, they need to understand this is a GLOBAL game. Their culture and high moral standards are not the norm for the rest of the world and you either sign your players to legally binding contracts or expect them to get better, more lucrative offers and gladly accept them.
Anyone saying what Puma did here is wrong is delusional.
Scenario A: Puma stays with TSL, has to bank his ENTIRE sc2 tournament winnings on ONE tournament, and rarely leaves Korea for international tournaments. We'll assume hes getting paid, but obviously less than he would with EG.
Scenario B: Puma joins EG, gains a higher salary, and travels all over the world to multiple events while gaining notoriety and more opportunities for cash prizes.
Yea.... I'd like to see how many people take Scenario A.
I think you're scenarios are a bit off. It's more like TSL is upset that EG didn't contact TSL first. If they had, they skill could have agreed to either scenario.
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On July 21 2011 16:42 sashamunguia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 16:29 Alpino wrote:
Fuck! You people are so naive and moral, I love Puma and that way I can see more of him. yeah, that's a different way to look at this lets just leave the boys cry and kick while some of us actually enjoy the game/team/whatever
lol I love when people paint the other side as stupid and immature. Because of course only the people who agree with you actually enjoy Starcraft and esports. The rest of us are just here to troll you fun loving people.
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On July 21 2011 16:39 dartoo wrote:
Coach lee should buy out the STX team, make them play sc2, and make toss girl pwn everyone :p
Wouldn't that be a news headline lol "STX A-Team Moves to SC2 TSL".
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EPT
