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Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 66

Forum Index > SC2 General
7189 CommentsPost a Reply
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Nifel
Profile Joined June 2010
706 Posts
July 21 2011 07:49 GMT
#1301
Personally I love that the "foreign" and Korean scenes are merging. One huge, united international scene with global teams is ideal for the growth of eSports and the overall quality of the games. While a lot of people might find the approach in this case kind of..questionable, at least I love the intentions.

I'm sure we'll see more of these transitions. Might look quite ridiculous for a while though with large global teams ninja'ing players to the left and right and devouring smaller teams.
Buruguduy
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines238 Posts
July 21 2011 07:49 GMT
#1302
I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls "eyes"

-SirScoots' twitter

http://twitter.com/#!/SirScoots/status/93944977545109504

two sides to every story!
NA: pon.838 // SEA: pon.451 // KR: pon.843
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
July 21 2011 07:49 GMT
#1303
On July 21 2011 16:48 InstantKarma wrote:
Trickster, Fruitdealer, and now Puma have left TSL now. There must be wrong with the management of TSL if their star players are leaving the team. I think players should come first and if a team doesn't take care of their players it's best if the players can find a team which will support them better. TSL has no right to complain if their players leave to try and find better support for their careers.


This guy has got it right, but you forgot Rain too!
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
July 21 2011 07:49 GMT
#1304
On July 21 2011 16:46 IceSlipper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:41 taLbuk wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:40 IceSlipper wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:39 HolyArrow wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:35 BFCrimson wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:34 IceSlipper wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:32 taLbuk wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:30 IceSlipper wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:28 Mycl wrote:
From SirScoots via twitter

"I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes"

Such a stupid response from scoots.. Really? We are only going off what we have, what more facts can we check? lmfao.. how about you give us some instead of sitting on your high-horse and thinking of anyway you can justify this horrible display of ethics and lack of respect..

No response at all would be much more professional than this trash..


you can wait to make an irrational emotion fueled post until we have more facts.

or you can spew your nonsense like you just did.

How long are we suppose to wait? We have plenty of facts right here (Puma on TSL -> Puma NASL -> Puma released -> Puma EG), and you want us to just sit here while scoots/EG make up a nice little fairytale? He just took a jab at the whole community, without clarifying anything at all..


God forbid we wait more than an hour and a half (with the story breaking at 11:00PM PDT) for the other half of the story, WE HAVE FACTS!!!!


The problem is that time is actually of the essence in a situation like this. If EG takes too long to come out with the announcement, people are going to infer that they spent that extra time trying to tailor a nicer story than perhaps what the actual truth might be. EG management should know EXACTLY what happened, and, seriously, it doesn't take long to type up a couple paragraphs that would clarify everything. Certainly, it wouldn't take an hour. Half an hour, tops, if they really wanted to just clarify everything cleanly.

This.

The fact that scoots is willing to tweet about us not having the facts without giving us the facts just points more towards this being the truth..


Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit.

You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it.

Very constructive post, I can see exactly where you are coming from :/

I can see it already, EG comes out with the (completely fabricated) statement claiming that TSL is a dying team and Puma expressed interest in joining EG during the NASL finals, they then went to TSL who decided to release Puma as they believed it was in the best interests of everyone involved.


So if they type out a fast response as you seem to want and in the rush get a few minor facts wrong what would you people say then? Better to let people wait and make a well thought out accurate post. It's not EG's fault that some people jump to conclusions based on nothing but air and their own bias.
Zen.
Profile Joined April 2011
United States30 Posts
July 21 2011 07:49 GMT
#1305
If there is any blame to pass around, which there isn't, its on TSL dont cry about losing players if you dont give them a reason to stay. Sc1 didn't treat players right, here is to the hope that sc2 will.
"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
Benjef
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom6921 Posts
July 21 2011 07:49 GMT
#1306
Poor Clide =/. Hes loosing everyone around him! Now TSL just needs to counter troll and pick up some westerners.
<3 | Dota 2 | DayZ | <3
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1307
On July 21 2011 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:42 sashamunguia wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:29 Alpino wrote:
Fuck! You people are so naive and moral, I love Puma and that way I can see more of him.


yeah, that's a different way to look at this
lets just leave the boys cry and kick while some of us actually enjoy the game/team/whatever

lol I love when people paint the other side as stupid and immature. Because of course only the people who agree with you actually enjoy Starcraft and esports. The rest of us are just here to troll you fun loving people.

no, it's much more than that. You're here to ruin esports!11omg!1bbq
Do you really want chat rooms?
namste
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland2292 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1308
On July 21 2011 16:47 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:44 udgnim wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:40 Aetherial wrote:
On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
"There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"


Player contracts?


there isn't enough sponsorship money in Korean SC2 where teams can start signing players to iron clad contracts

making players sign contracts with little monetary incentive behind it makes little sense for the player

Lol I'm pretty sure the companies sponsoring SC2 teams are bigger than the companies sponsering Western SC2 teams. Who do you think is bigger, a company like Razer that caters to a very specific (hardcore gaming) market, or the fast food companies that sponser teams like IM and are very well known for handing out prestigious contracts in Korea? Don't state your retarded assumptions as facts.


Most of the Razer/Steelseries sponsorhips only give you free products and small stuff like that anyway.
IM hwaitiing ~ IMMvp #1 | Bang Min Ah <3<3
holycrapitsTony
Profile Joined October 2010
United States330 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1309
On July 21 2011 16:48 Kairos~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:40 BackSideAttack wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:37 yosisoy wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:34 StatikKhaos wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:32 namste wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:25 trikshun wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:22 Ajnin wrote:
Team is doing poorly?
Bribe NASL winner korean terran with paycheck.
Hope to win.


+ Show Spoiler +
EG

idrA player placing 4th behind 3 Koreans. Representing North America at Gamescon. Yeah EG is doing bad


Yeah EG is doing bad, idra isn't. One player doesn't make a team!

But i mean several teams have only one player perform, what liquid player has done anything (recently) besides HuK? what oGs player besides MC. The list goes on...stop just hating on EG cause it makes you sound stupid


Jinro won MLG Dallas and made Code S ro4 twice, Ret won Assembly.
oGsTOP won code A, oGsInca code S finals, to name a few.


He asked RECENTLY...none of those recent other than Inca


Nobody in EG won anything significant recently.

Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh.

So the IPL Season 1 isnt big enough for the big and mighty eSports follower Talin.


Or being the top-placed foreigner in Columbus.
NYE: when the match loading screen comes up "zvz" it's like finding out you have hiv
Postman
Profile Joined July 2010
United States269 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1310
So....EG talks to a player directly when there was nothing in place to stop them from doing so and they make a player an offer. That player then takes it, (apparently) betraying his team and coach.

Why is this an argument between EG's side and TSL's side instead of an argument between Puma's side and TSL's side?
FXOpen
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1844 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1311
On July 21 2011 16:49 Xeris wrote:
Alex Garfield of EG talked to a lot of players at NASL, he approached Sen for example. I don't think it's particularly wrong for a conversation to take place, especially when you're at an event and just socializing with people... but it's more about actually putting a deal in place without going through the proper channels that it becomes wrong in my opinion.

For example, I have no problem talking to players (let's say DIMAGA) and saying "hey I'm wondering if you'd be interested in joining Fnatic." But knowing that he's a player on a team, that's really where the conversation needs to end. Anything further becomes a disrespect to the actual team and the whole idea of esports.


Well put.
www.twitter.com/FXOpenESports
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1312
On July 21 2011 16:48 EchoZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:47 echO [W] wrote:
Oh shit, TSL_Clide just tweeted "Dirty Cash"

http://twitter.com/#!/clidekj/status/93949905348993024



Well Clide ain't happy.



Just confirms what I was thinking... PuMa has burned the bridge...
SourD
Profile Joined February 2011
United States81 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1313
Interesting find while I was looking at korean labor laws about employment contracts..

If there is no earning/salary to employee(player) there can not be an obligation for a contract. because it would be "slavery contract".

makes sense if you ask me..a person should not be under a contract if there is no earning from it.

btw, this labor law was introduced largely because of entertainment companies trying to lure people to train with them to become celeberities.
eggs
Profile Joined August 2010
1011 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1314
On July 21 2011 16:49 Buruguduy wrote:
I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls "eyes"

-SirScoots' twitter

http://twitter.com/#!/SirScoots/status/93944977545109504

two sides to every story!


well the other side is just: "screw the rules i have money"
kOre
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada3642 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1315
On July 21 2011 16:48 holy_war wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:47 echO [W] wrote:
Oh shit, TSL_Clide just tweeted "Dirty Cash"

http://twitter.com/#!/clidekj/status/93949905348993024


I agree with Clide

OHHHHHH shit

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201086 - The post on TSL salaries.

I'm assuming Puma was getting a salary of around 30,000?
http://www.starcraftmecca.net - Founder
Bleak
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Turkey3059 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1316
On July 21 2011 16:47 Angelbelow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:42 DystopiaX wrote:
On July 21 2011 16:41 Bleak wrote:
On July 21 2011 15:41 Angelbelow wrote:
Haha i dont understand how there are so many butt hurt fans???

Do you guys really think EG stole him? does that even make sense?

EG made an offer and TSL couldnt match it. TSL is falling apart, they lost 4 of their top players, all within a few weeks. Rain, Trickster, FD, and now Puma. Something is wrong and dysfunctional with that team and I wouldn't be surprised if they disband soon.


This.

SC2 community can be really funny sometimes. Any piece of news can be turned into a recipe for disaster and apocalypse. Remember "YOU'RE RUINING ESPORTS!!11" thing?

TSL has already been losing blood. EG made an offer to Puma that he can't refuse, Puma accepted, end of story. Who cares what some Koreans think about it?

I'm happy for EG, Puma will really add to the team a lot.

I'd have no problem with the scenario you described, if people want to leave that's fine. What you're not considering is that EG shadily dodged Puma's management and basically stole their player from them, who may or may not have been contracted. Either way, you contact the team that he plays for before he makes the move, not after a deal has already been made.


My question is how do you know this forsure? "Steal" is too subjective of a word to be thrown around right now.

Coach lee says he was stolen, sirscoots says we need to check out facts. who to believe?

Its obvious youve put all your eggs into Coach Lee's story. I'm not convinced this situation is so simple.


People just jump to any news like carrions and rip apart the subject. Calm down people, let's wait until we hear the story of both sides.
"I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance. "
IceSlipper
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Australia1028 Posts
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1317
On July 21 2011 16:49 ArturosII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:41 taLbuk wrote:

Oh god, drop the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit.

You should also lose the tinfoil hat while your at it.


To be fair the last time people were mocked for "conspiracy bullshit" with regards to EG they were actually correct about their conspiracy.

How is it even a conspiracy when we are basing it off the only facts we have? It's talbuk and co. who are putting on 'the theatrics and conspiracy bullshit' claiming that there are facts we dont know which put EG in the right here..
DminusTerran
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1337 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-21 07:55:23
July 21 2011 07:50 GMT
#1318
Something about this feels wrong. Kind of shitty to me that EG can just steal success from TSL when they've worked hard to get results with their minimal lineup. I guess this sort of thing has always been something that happened a lot within foreigner teams, but I dunno definitely feels like he was poached more than anything else. EG really should have contacted TSL before trying to come to this arrangement. The apparent, "clandestine" nature of this acquisition is, for me at least, pretty gross. I've never thought very highly of the way EG carries themselves as an organization, I don't really see this being a long term successful move for them anyways.

Oh well I guess I'll express my disappointment with my wallet, no more steelseries products for me. Hopefully GSL as an organization cracks down and bans EG from participating in their events at least for a certain amount of time.
densha
Profile Joined December 2010
United States797 Posts
July 21 2011 07:51 GMT
#1319
Ok, so EG's response to failing results is to snipe a Korean player. Why not, I dunno, put all those side projects on the side and actually set up a rigid practice schedule? A few custom games a day and the NA ladder are not going to keep you sharp.

Conversely, why would Puma really want to join a foreign team when foreign teams operate in a way that's directly opposed to increasing skill? What I mean is, is that most foreign teams are made up of a few players separated geographically. There just isn't the access to the high level practice partners and the type of training schedule needed to keep up with the Korean teams. Many recent tournament results bear this fact out.

Maybe he's tired of the practice schedule? Maybe he realizes he can cash in internationally right now without the need for constant practice? I just don't know.

Also, I'd just like to say how unprofessionally it appears EG went about this. It also appears they don't have much confidence in their own players and felt the need to seek out a top Korean in order to start winning tournaments again. I guess that's what happens when InControl has 8,000 side projects and IdrA just hates the game. Anyway, disappointing all around.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
Midgetman101
Profile Joined February 2011
United States825 Posts
July 21 2011 07:51 GMT
#1320
On July 21 2011 16:48 holy_war wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 16:47 echO [W] wrote:
Oh shit, TSL_Clide just tweeted "Dirty Cash"

http://twitter.com/#!/clidekj/status/93949905348993024


I agree with Clide

Ah man this isn't good :/
~Terran For Life~
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