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Hai I here guise.
Zare this is more like it. I expect more of this from you during the day. Who is your top scumread of all of those you have listed?
Also with regards to the BH 'scumslip,' Vivax, there is something I remember in the logs that bothered me a little, I have to go re-read and find it. I didn't originally bring it up because I was leaning town on BH but his tunneling of TPS (who is leaning town for me) and the recent evidence against him (waiting on yours too, geript) makes me want to go find it again.
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On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote:Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light. Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago.
Since then Keir flipped and DarthPunk made the point that we were probably on the wrong track. Keir thought zare was town and i am willing to give hm the benefit of the doubt.
It's also worth realising that mason roles ARE ptobably balanced between town and mafia but maybe with more on town's side, since grey is probably not the only town mason since he could only mason 1 person then kill them.
I am not defending BH, your push on him based on qt's (unlike most of what you have done so far) was borderline retarded. Can't say much more.
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On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote:Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light.Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago.
Misread this first point,
VE and GK confirmed the logs were correct so if BH is fabracting the logs they are deliberately supporting the lie. Zarepath also supports it but we haven't seen logs.
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On March 20 2013 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hai I here guise.
Zare this is more like it. I expect more of this from you during the day. Who is your top scumread of all of those you have listed?
Also with regards to the BH 'scumslip,' Vivax, there is something I remember in the logs that bothered me a little, I have to go re-read and find it. I didn't originally bring it up because I was leaning town on BH but his tunneling of TPS (who is leaning town for me) and the recent evidence against him (waiting on yours too, geript) makes me want to go find it again.
Mr. Wiggles. He refuses to present reads, and hasn't had a read on anyone since the GM flip.
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Ok found it.
It's the timestamps that bother me.
Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them.
Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means
a) they were planning in the scum QT
b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null)
c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later.
The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here.
Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think.
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On March 20 2013 01:46 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hai I here guise.
Zare this is more like it. I expect more of this from you during the day. Who is your top scumread of all of those you have listed?
Also with regards to the BH 'scumslip,' Vivax, there is something I remember in the logs that bothered me a little, I have to go re-read and find it. I didn't originally bring it up because I was leaning town on BH but his tunneling of TPS (who is leaning town for me) and the recent evidence against him (waiting on yours too, geript) makes me want to go find it again. Mr. Wiggles. He refuses to present reads, and hasn't had a read on anyone since the GM flip.
Since I originally had a townread on Wiggle (and you appear to be right) I'd really like to see something from him. I don't think anyone on D2 can be excused of lack of activity/reads now since most of thread is fairly active and scumhunting.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 01:46 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote:Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light.Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. Misread this first point, VE and GK confirmed the logs were correct so if BH is fabracting the logs they are deliberately supporting the lie. Zarepath also supports it but we haven't seen logs.
If they use the same qt for all masons it still doesn't mean anything.
The evidence is that that first post had been written somewhere else and wasn't a PM.
Of course, I am aware BH might say it was a PM he pasted there afterwards, but it was obvious there had been some sort of other communication between the two before that post got exchanged. Their conversation can't have started with such a PM.
So it means that, if BH argues it was a pasted PM, then there is communication between them he didn't post, and it means that he deliberately only posted a part of it, a part that puts them in good light and lets them appear like they're scumhunting, we completely miss the first PM's between them, if there ever were any.
Also, usually you reply to PM directly with a reply button, so if it was a PM we should see the quotes of the previous PM's he replied to, and that's not the case.
Se yeah, that shit is fabricated.
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Also, PMs are against the rules. So BH had to have been in some form of communication with SOMEONE in order for that first sentence to mean anything. It sounds like the QT wasn't even up, so who was he talking to and in what sphere?
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BH said the following in our logs:
Blazinghand
03-19-2013
03:31 AM ET (US)
I'm heading to bed and will be back in thread in ~9-10 hours.
So he should be around sometime soon to answer for this. I'll post our own chat logs if it becomes relevant, but so far there really hasn't been much said since he's been asleep since I got the QT link.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 01:59 zarepath wrote:
Also, PMs are against the rules. So BH had to have been in some form of communication with SOMEONE in order for that first sentence to mean anything. It sounds like the QT wasn't even up, so who was he talking to and in what sphere?
Are PM's against the rules for masons? If that's the case then that post was 100 % from another qt.
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It would literally be more productive for you both to bash your faces off of your keyboards than to pursue this train of thought.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 02:13 layabout wrote:
It would literally be more productive for you both to bash your faces off of your keyboards than to pursue this train of thought.
Argue why it wasn't a slip then. What is the "here" he posts that post in if he says in the same line that the hosts are taking their time with the mason qt?
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On March 20 2013 01:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok found it.
It's the timestamps that bother me.
Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them.
Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means
a) they were planning in the scum QT
b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null)
c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later.
The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here.
Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think.
It's hard to argue with the timestamps people need different times to write. In chats however they can be indicative somehow.
What I find suspicious is that they seem to talk about their own stuff but not really question each other to find out if the other guy is scum.
When I invited gonzaw to my shipdeck in Themed game (I was captain Picard lol) I immediately got him into a chat and started asking him quick questions to get a feeling about his alignment.
In the chat between BH and GK we don't see any of that, they are like: I think this guy and this guy is scum and here's why, gonna push him with this and that, thoughts? Kthxbye was a pleasure.
In the chat between VE and BH we see instead that VE is way more direct to BH and also says he suspects him:
VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:59 PM ET (US)
To be frank you're entirely non-existant this game as compared to LX. I'm not really concerned about geript suspecting you because honestly before this conversation I was suspicious of you too. Being in a QT with someone pretty much excuses that though.
Can you go into detail about your read on TPS?
VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-19-2013
12:40 AM ET (US)
It's the right move. If you're town you'll be able to prove it. I just don't think so based on the contents of this QT. And because you're "actively decreasing your post count" that's all I have to go on. Sorry dude.
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Regarding Thepeashooter:
One thing I understand that thepeashooter has said is that he was fed up with being harassed by BH, and his anger was genuine. I believe him here. BH's casepoint that he's faked anger is pretty bad.
But when it comes to contributing meaningfully to scumhunting, I agree with BH's case that he's come up rather empty. Even now, thepeashooter seems more concerned with defending himself than with giving out reads. His recent case against Wade is pretty much an OMGUS. And if you were to look at his filter, he spends a lot of time talking about rather meaningless shit, like that Vivax and Kenpachi have no chance of getting shot... This is NOT proactive scumhunting.
That being said there are a few people like thepeashooter right now (semi-active, but absolutely useless). While what he's done to date is definitely scummy, I'm not in favor of lynching him today. I believe that by looking at players with better-established meta, we can have a more certain scum lynch.
Regarding Mr. Wiggles
I would agree that Mr. Wiggles is definitely looking like scum. He is WAY more helpful in his towngames, and this post has been especially telling to me.:
On March 19 2013 13:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Town my soul to keep, If I shall die before I wake, I pray the Town my soul to take.
Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 12:38 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 19 2013 12:36 kitaman27 wrote:
Considering I nearly fell asleep writing the personality endgame post I'm going to have to call it a night. Hope to see you all in the morning! NOOOO WHAT IF YOU DIIIEIEEEEEEE?!??!?!? Then he'll really be dead tiredYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 
I haven't really read too deeply since night time. I've been sort of skimming over the thread and reading a bit more for certain posts/posters, but that's it right now. I won't be awake to post stuff right before the deadline, so I've weighed between posting some stuff now about reads or just waiting, and I've opted to wait. I'm waiting to see what happens with the day post, and I haven't really gotten to pay close attention to the reactions to the GreY flip. Any post I make won't be much better than a Day 1 read, so I don't think it will help much as compared to the possibility of it becoming WIFOM if I die. I noticed some people questioning my decision making regarding GreY's lynch, and my last post before the flip, so I'll go a bit into my thought process. Basically, GreY was someone I was watching throughout the day. I thought he was scummy, and Ryu's post lined up a lot with what I was thinking about him. I wanted to see how GreY would react or try to defend himself, but unfortunately he never did. He just gave up, which put us in a crappy situation, because you can either weigh it as a townie giving up, or as a mafia ploy. Based on how he acted earlier, I concluded he was more likely to be scum, and voted for him. I said it was a bad situation, because when he just martyrs himself and acts apathetically, he doesn't give us anything else to work with, and you can't just drop the case because he stopped posting. I'll watch the thread for a little less than an hour if anyone has questions about some things for me. I don't really want to post a list of reads though.
Like what the fuck? Between the lines, he's like I know I'm a vet, but I can't be bothered to leave the town with anything EVEN THOUGH as town I know it's likely that I'd be a higher priority NK target... I just don't see this as town mentality. It doesn't make sense to me how town Mr. Wiggles could be so completely apathetic to a town that could clearly use some guidance after a day one mislynch. On top of that he's a jokester with kita's concerns of dying. I just can't think of any better way to say you don't give a fuck about this game...
I've got a scum read on him, and he's earned my vote.:
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
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hey guys reading up on thread now. Feel free to ask me any questions.
peashooter spent a good amount of energy effort trying to rally a lynch on me. Im pretty much the easy lynch in every game so its not uncommon for scum to try and push town into lynching me. Its strange to me that there are so many people who have put me in as a town read already. I dont think I should be a town read for anyone just yet. but its a good thing at any rate cause im town.
I wouldnt mind having peashooter lynched just on the basis that he was willing to let town run in circles over his identity while saying nothing. that seems fairly anti town. like hes trying to milk the speculation for all the chaos it can possibly generate.
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A little elaboration on where you now stand on your earlier reads would be nice.:
On March 19 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote:
glurio and DA will probably be who I focus on getting lynched day 2. I havnt really seen anything that makes me feel like VE is town so far either wich is uncommon going into night 1. This late in the game he usually has more town cred built. wiggles is also another player I have a null on but would expect to be feeling town on at this point.
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On March 20 2013 04:16 Coagulation wrote:
hey guys reading up on thread now. Feel free to ask me any questions.
peashooter spent a good amount of energy effort trying to rally a lynch on me. Im pretty much the easy lynch in every game so its not uncommon for scum to try and push town into lynching me. Its strange to me that there are so many people who have put me in as a town read already. I dont think I should be a town read for anyone just yet. but its a good thing at any rate cause im town.
I wouldnt mind having peashooter lynched just on the basis that he was willing to let town run in circles over his identity while saying nothing. that seems fairly anti town. like hes trying to milk the speculation for all the chaos it can possibly generate.
Arguably trolling the thread has the exact same effect as what you're accusing Peashooter of Coagulation. The difference is that he was trying to do something about you while you were just trolling along. Only now that he's finally put an end to the speculation have you tried to do anything but exacerbate the speculation.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles and Ryu please.
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On March 20 2013 04:16 Coagulation wrote:
hey guys reading up on thread now. Feel free to ask me any questions.
peashooter spent a good amount of energy effort trying to rally a lynch on me. Im pretty much the easy lynch in every game so its not uncommon for scum to try and push town into lynching me. Its strange to me that there are so many people who have put me in as a town read already. I dont think I should be a town read for anyone just yet. but its a good thing at any rate cause im town.
I wouldnt mind having peashooter lynched just on the basis that he was willing to let town run in circles over his identity while saying nothing. that seems fairly anti town. like hes trying to milk the speculation for all the chaos it can possibly generate.
You know I'm beginning to see why Greymist let himself get lynched. If we have townies like you we don't even need scum.
On March 20 2013 04:10 goodkarma wrote:
Regarding Thepeashooter:
One thing I understand that thepeashooter has said is that he was fed up with being harassed by BH, and his anger was genuine. I believe him here. BH's casepoint that he's faked anger is pretty bad.
But when it comes to contributing meaningfully to scumhunting, I agree with BH's case that he's come up rather empty. Even now, thepeashooter seems more concerned with defending himself than with giving out reads. His recent case against Wade is pretty much an OMGUS. And if you were to look at his filter, he spends a lot of time talking about rather meaningless shit, like that Vivax and Kenpachi have no chance of getting shot... This is NOT proactive scumhunting.
That being said there are a few people like thepeashooter right now (semi-active, but absolutely useless). While what he's done to date is definitely scummy, I'm not in favor of lynching him today. I believe that by looking at players with better-established meta, we can have a more certain scum lynch.
....I've said a dozen times now that it had nothing to do with him harassing me. It had to do with spam which is one reason I stopped playing mafia for so long. There is this new meta of it somehow being okay for people like him to spam the shit out of the thread and make the game unplayable.
I also hate when people use the term OMGUS every 4 seconds. OMGUS doesn't means that I am attacking someone simply because they attacked me. However, that's not the reason. The reason I said something is because I find the way he does things to be scummy and worth looking into. Therefore what I said was not OMGUS. However, I understand some people are too stupid to realize the difference between legitimate concerns over a players alignment and would simply write my thoughts as OMGUS which is why I asked for someone else to read his filter and assess the situation.
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TPS defending yourself is secondary, first of all you should argue why someone is a better lynch choice than you. It's very hard to get rid of scumreads of you just by defense at later stages.
If you looked into my cases and pick one that you like instead of bitching so much about others being stupid and not speaking english you could probably achieve more.
You've done nothing but defending yourself lately and you said at night that you found some stuff about zarepath weird yet I don't see anything indicating that you're interested in lynching anyone.
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EPT
