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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
Sloosh looked so townie day 2 that it was almost unbearable to see him lynched and as I commented the only thing that made me think probulous was town was the thing he noticed from TIPD and the fact that he was being reasonable. In the end his surge of activity when being focused and his lack when we were thinking of lynching sloosh is what made me switch to him. So that's what went on in my head =P | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:25 VisceraEyes wrote: slOosh wasn't doing it to try and lead town later - his reasoning was different if I'm understanding correctly. He's trying to avoid tunneling D1 to cut down on the possibility of "confirmation bias" later on and look less scummy overall (lurking>tunneling). yeah I am probably pretty biased in that regard. You know me, I love talking a lot so that's probably why I don't like that at all. That kind of stuff is giving me a really hard time in judging people. About nominations: I really don't think town was that good. I don't mean to offend people, it was decent but nothing more imo. Town was behaving like headless chicken early on d1 running in circles pointing fingers at everyone who was town while telling people the few mafias in the thread were probably town. And suddenly everything changed with sandrobas claim. From there on you were in a nice position and losing wasn't a real option anymore. You had a couple of targets, something like 4 people left you all thought were scummy and 2 out of those were the remaining mafias so even with a sloOsh mislynch noone would have cared at all. The thing you found about TIPD (the post about suggesting to DT prob when you saw the godfather flip) was really nice and that sealed the deal. But other than that I can't really remember good stuff from town. Once Sandroba stepped in and his weird plan worked out the deal was already sealed because of mafias d1 performance. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:50 SamuelLJackson wrote: Also for fairness snarfs should have been modkilled imo (but not banned or anything). Yes, it was the hosts fault for not giving out the standard role pms, but it fucked scum over a lot. QFT. I wouldn't have begrudged a modkill in this instance...it was clear rule infraction and leaving him alive gave us one more vote we would have had to win over otherwise. Look at the Jackal lynch, for instance. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Not much in there except my day 1 (the first 24 hours, not the whole 48 hours) reads and prob once he died :p | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
 I'm still a bit puzzled about Snarfs' post. Did he have a different role PM from Johnnywup/Tobon? On March 24 2012 04:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Is it any different than veterans who tend to lurk early to avoid night-kills? Or scum who lurk early to hide in lurkers? I didn't see it as bad as just a style of play thing. slOosh really pulled through with contributing in the end. Veterans lurking early is only acceptable IMO if they're terrible at playing scum. That means town can afford to let them cruise day 1 because once they start posting properly on day 2 they'll be easy to read. Sloosh is arguably better at scum than town so there's no reason for town to let him get away with lurking. I don't think his "tunnelling problem" is so severe that it's pro-town for him to lurk, at least outside newbie games. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
And yes, there was a Y in my PM. Original Message From Toadesstern: You are a Vanilla Towny You are a simpleton villager. Your job is to rid the town of all mafia. You're also seriously badass. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
 Basicly what happened: I asked wbg a day before the game started if I need to pm people roles or if I need to do a daypost and he says he'll be out of town and only has his phone. He'll do the pm's today (as in the day before the game started) and will prepare the daypost, pm it to me and if he has not done the daypost by 23:10 (my time) I should go ahead and just post it because he probably wasn't able to do it from his phone. So that was what was supposed to happen. 3 hours before the game started I get a pm from wbg that I need to send pm's and stuff and I said ok will do, shouldn't be too hard. So I did that, basicly copy & pasted everything in there. Tried to get help from people on irc on how to create QTs and if I had to look out for something special to not screw that up and I finally got Kurumi to tell me that it's all simple and clean, just create the QT and make sure to not send the mafia QT to someone else and you're fine. I doublechecked everything like a dozen times to make sure I did not make some mistakes like giving mafia wrong names, or give people wrong roles in the first place. Checked if the QT's are all the right ones and so on. And I thought the VT pm's looked strange if I only pm'ed "You are a simpleton villager. Your job is to rid the town of all mafia. You're also seriously badass." and nothing else, so that's why I included those headers and I screwed up there, sry At least that won't ever happen again to me. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I didn't consciously decide to lurk D1 if that is the question. Uhh, actually maybe I did - when VE pushed johnnywub I just sat back and watched to see who would do what. That is where I got my Nemesis town read from, because he did what I would have done. Plus since I wanted to see some discussion happen I didn't want to do an absolute roadblock on that. My case on xsksc was a genuine misread - I missed that one post and he looked really suspicious after I saw ( or rather I didn't see) it. I backed off when I realized I missed everything else. Then being on the other side of a mislynch generally gave me much content and an avenue to talk and share reads etc. So I suppose in comparison my D1 seems more inactive / lurking than D2. I really don't know how to properly drive discussion D1 with nothing to go off on, so any tips there would be good. Hmm. So as I see there is two styles of doing it. One is more active in your face like VE this game or Probulous (town / SK) the other is little prods like Sandroba this game or Adam4179 in the games I've played. Any advice which one I should tend to or how I should improve that aspect? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
The thing about little prods is that in larger games, prods like that can get lost in the shuffle, even in a relatively chilled thread environment. By focusing on one player and forcing that one player to respond before you do anything else, you not only put yourself out there for people to read you (that should be your number one goal as a town aligned player, regardless of role), you also are sure to not get lost in the shuffle. Get page bumped? Blame it on his scumteam and ask again! | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
WBG, that is exactly why I hate playing as scum. I don't see what role claims are possible. I think if I am to win as scum I need someone who is good to provide suggestions. I almost always going to get outed early because I post so much. We lost because by the time the Jacakal deadline was over there basically 5 confirmed townies Sandroba Jcarl VE Snares Tobon And we had lost Jacakal. When I got into the thread half through day 1 I knew were in a bad place. That was why I filled up the thread trying make people see how VE style was scummy. Anyway advice would be greatly appreciated. I still haven't won a game | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Gonna type it up in chunks, starting with setup info, then town play, then mafia play, then stay tuned for awards! yaaaaaaay | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
 You should have focus-fired me bro, sandroba might have been swayed and taken you across the finish-line. I get frustrated when people who make sense start to suspect me. Even after the Jackal lynch, I was a very attractive fall-guy if you presented it in the right way, and I think you could have done it. Your own doubt got in your way. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I am basicly calling you (VE) mafia in every game latley. Some times I do that because I honestly think that way, sometimes I do that because I don't have a clue what's going on in VE-Land. Remember L where you lied about your dayvig ability and I knew you did that on purpose? I had no idea why you did that, I called you mafia for that when all you were at that point was a liar, to get some more information about you. I'm doing that because I think I'm capable to read you at least a bit. Same about everyone else I played at least 2 games with. However, I don't think it's a good idea to do that with a noob on day1 because hell, those people can react in every possible way you could imagine and you won't have a clue (at first) if that's a townie treat or a mafia treat. At least it's very easy to misread someone like that. More importantly about your style this game: I really did not like that at all. It's all fine and nice in a big game when there's something like 30 people around but in this game, especially with so many new players a "normal" style would have been way better. Nemesis rb'ed you for a reason and I can totally understand that. Sandroba said he was suspicious of you and I can understand that as well. Your weird style was a nullread for everyone who saw your last 2 games as you probably came in this game with a LOT of confidence and at the same time being incredible pissed the first day because of your 10-minute game. So that's it, you talker a lot, you confused some of the new guys with that and while everyone should have seen it's really a nullread not everyone did see that and thought it's suspicious. You guys won this game without a problem I'm not going to tell you that you did bad but I've got the feeling that town really needed a "normal" guy leading town without that whole fancy confusion. If sandro would not have ended up being a mason you would have mislynched d1 into a townie, you guys would have thought Jackal is a townie except for Sandroba who had no prove for that and without being confirmed townie it would have been incredible hard to get people on Jackal given how vocal you guys were about him being town. If you had played "normal" this game would have been even more of a rape because there would have been less confusion, less people accusing everyone else for stuff that actually should be treated as nullreads and it would have been way easier to figure out what was going on. Yeah I know, I'm the king of confusion and I am hypnotoad if I want to, so that's probably really hypocritically but someone playing it simple, clear and open to lead town would have been a huge asset to town. If you already got someone like that, be my guest to do what you did this game, in bigger games you'll most likely have a couple of those people but in a mini with so many new guys you do not have a lot of those guys. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
Maybe I should have tunnelled you the whole game? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Townies buy every claim they see without a second of a thought, no doubts at all and mafias are to afraid to claim at all. Oh and the reason noone shot VE is because mafia was scared either VE or Sandro were going to be protected. Quite sad VE ended up being the medic. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
C9++ Mini Mafia Setup Information Essentially this game used a highly modified C9++ randomizer that omitted the serial killer. In the future, the randomizer may actually include the serial killer. I will also be considering adding a fourth scum member and upping the player total to 14 players with the current blue/green ratio (the other solution is to tone that down a bit, but usually even VTs are useful) I'll be balancing with the goal of being able to include the SK in the randomizer, so it has a chance to appear in the next setup. The randomizer itself will always be kept private, to ensure the setup's integrity. Essentially my goal is to make this setup completely fair; every role is claimable by both sides, and it leaves the field open to creative and ingenious plays. This game was almost like a test run to help achieve this goal. In this particular iteration of the setup, we had two town masons, a one shot vigilante, a one shot town roleblocker, a doctor, five vanilla townies, a framer, a godfather, and a mafia roleblocker. Overall the setup favored claimers, because the only way to confirm a claim was by death. Imagine a day 1 in which the two masons claim and a mafia claims miller, followed by a day 2 vigilante claim, town RB claim, and mafia fake cop claim. That's six claimers by day 2, and the potential for blues to still exist beyond those players. (in fact, a doctor would have still existed.) Imagine in addition that the doctor was shot n1; you see where I'm going with this. The setup has the potential to reward ingenious plays because it is completely unknown. There could be two cops, or none at all. There could be one town RB, or two, or none at all. They could be multishot or single shot (and players can claim based on what they perceive would make sense from a balance perspective, thus rewarding game-sense and knowledge) Thus, as you can tell, the game can progress very quickly, and it takes proactivity from both sides to prevent disaster. If town is not proactive about making sense of claims and keeping behavior separate from claims, they will get crushed by mafia. On the other hand if mafia are not proactive about appearing town and controlling town discussion, the game can quickly spiral out of control for the mafia. This setup in particular (and most mason setups) is volatile in the sense that it rewards quick-thinking and good decision making by both sides and strictly punishes complacent, timid, and weak play. | ||
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