• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:43
CET 07:43
KST 15:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview11Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 KSL Week 85 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Let's Get Creative–Video Gam…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1748 users

Come back units - Page 5

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
gurrpp
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States437 Posts
October 05 2011 21:47 GMT
#81
On October 06 2011 05:19 Rizell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 05:10 Mafs wrote:
I play chess and I HATE when people compare the 2. In chess there are come back moves, which make it much much more entertaining. Same with SC2. Nothing feels better then watching someone behind just dominate their opponent because they make perfect moves. And SC2 doesnt have CBU because that makes the comeback that much easier. You should be able to come back only if you outplay your opponent. Making infestors shouldn't instantly win the game unless the person has no counter.


You dont understand this.


Could you be any less clear? Your reply needs some context.

@OP

I don't really like what you're doing here. Giving purely subjective opinions about your opinions on how sc2 and scbw game design compare should not use the pretense of having some sort of quantitative rating scale. Lets face it, all of your numbers are made up. Its just misleading and adds nothing to your argument to discuss an equation for CBU, since the numbers you are using for the equation are fabricated ratings anyway.

Also, the term CBU is itself misleading. You are using two very different characteristics to define CBUs: variation and skill ceiling of a unit. There are units which you can micro and always be rewarded for doing so. For example, microing stalkers against marines early on against marines or taking potshots at the queen with hellions. These have very low variance, since you are just using your skill to get free damage in. On the other hand you have units like the reaver in scbw, where there is high variance. The variance is due to the randomness of the scarab ai, not player skill. I think you're talking more about the latter of these two, in which case the discussion should neglect player skill and only deal with random elements of the game (ie high ground miss chance, scarab ai, etc.)
hot fuh days
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 21:53:46
October 05 2011 21:50 GMT
#82
The scarab AI indeed was somewhat random and had high variance. But don't say that a reaver's damage was not related to the player's skill.

By far the most important part in determining how much damage a reaver would do is based on how skilled the player using it is. The only exception is probably Much XD

It's like saying how much you win in poker is highly random with high variance. True, but a poker player's skill determines how often they win much more than the randomness of the cards.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
WickedSkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Netherlands81 Posts
October 05 2011 21:52 GMT
#83
On October 06 2011 04:25 iPAndi wrote:
all terran units have to be here

High templar has to be 230130301/10, cause if a storm hits, and you don't micro your bio out of it, its over. Terran has no comeback units.
Drone chasing probe, Tasteless quietly watching (Artosis)
CookieMaker
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada880 Posts
October 05 2011 21:59 GMT
#84
Wow, can I disagree more with the OP's assessment of the comeback Units. One BF drop against an army out of position or one DT when there's no detection and it might as well be GG.

BF hellions and DT's are by far the highest on my comback unit list, everything else scaled down and some units completely ignored.


(Z) Infestor = 7
(T) GHOST = 6
(P) Dark Templar = 10
(T) Banshee = 8
(Z) Baneling = 4

(P) Blink Stalkers = 5
(T)Blue Flame Hellions = 10

(P) High Templar = 6
Micro your Macro
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
October 05 2011 22:00 GMT
#85
Im glad you rated infestor as 7 even though its a unit people avoid now.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
October 05 2011 22:04 GMT
#86
Do does the OP just completely ignore drops and harassment? Like I don't understand this at all. How are medivacs and warp prisms not comeback units? Nydus Worms? Come on, this game hasn't been counter v counter v counter for a whole year.
Cain0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom608 Posts
October 05 2011 22:07 GMT
#87
Mules are the best comback unit as they can support an economy without any SCV's. They are quite hard to micro though.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25991 Posts
October 05 2011 22:08 GMT
#88
How was this thread allowed to stay open? TL goes to shit when I'm away. This is completely arbitrary. You can make Starcraft fun by controlling your units well and coming back that way. You don't need a dice-roll unit to make it fun.
Moderator
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27157 Posts
October 05 2011 22:19 GMT
#89
I was actually thinking about this in the shower this morning. The part of the equation I think the OP is missing. CBU rating is the start, but the principle of the comeback is based on time. CBU fragility + ability to delay + cost are the three variables that give you the time that such a unit buys you. And in SC, time is a really overlooked factor.
ModeratorGodfather
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Korean StarCraft League #85
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
FoxeR 80
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 488
firebathero 411
EffOrt 244
Larva 80
IntoTheRainbow 72
Bale 36
Noble 23
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm192
League of Legends
JimRising 903
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv577
Other Games
summit1g8255
WinterStarcraft483
febbydoto29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick774
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH165
• Response 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1294
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
5h 17m
ShoWTimE vs sOs
Serral vs Reynor
Zoun vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Lambo
OSC
6h 17m
Replay Cast
17h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-31
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.