• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:41
CET 11:41
KST 19:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)5Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker7PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)11Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Recent recommended BW games [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Sex and weight loss Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3092 users

Come back units - Page 5

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
gurrpp
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States437 Posts
October 05 2011 21:47 GMT
#81
On October 06 2011 05:19 Rizell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 05:10 Mafs wrote:
I play chess and I HATE when people compare the 2. In chess there are come back moves, which make it much much more entertaining. Same with SC2. Nothing feels better then watching someone behind just dominate their opponent because they make perfect moves. And SC2 doesnt have CBU because that makes the comeback that much easier. You should be able to come back only if you outplay your opponent. Making infestors shouldn't instantly win the game unless the person has no counter.


You dont understand this.


Could you be any less clear? Your reply needs some context.

@OP

I don't really like what you're doing here. Giving purely subjective opinions about your opinions on how sc2 and scbw game design compare should not use the pretense of having some sort of quantitative rating scale. Lets face it, all of your numbers are made up. Its just misleading and adds nothing to your argument to discuss an equation for CBU, since the numbers you are using for the equation are fabricated ratings anyway.

Also, the term CBU is itself misleading. You are using two very different characteristics to define CBUs: variation and skill ceiling of a unit. There are units which you can micro and always be rewarded for doing so. For example, microing stalkers against marines early on against marines or taking potshots at the queen with hellions. These have very low variance, since you are just using your skill to get free damage in. On the other hand you have units like the reaver in scbw, where there is high variance. The variance is due to the randomness of the scarab ai, not player skill. I think you're talking more about the latter of these two, in which case the discussion should neglect player skill and only deal with random elements of the game (ie high ground miss chance, scarab ai, etc.)
hot fuh days
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 21:53:46
October 05 2011 21:50 GMT
#82
The scarab AI indeed was somewhat random and had high variance. But don't say that a reaver's damage was not related to the player's skill.

By far the most important part in determining how much damage a reaver would do is based on how skilled the player using it is. The only exception is probably Much XD

It's like saying how much you win in poker is highly random with high variance. True, but a poker player's skill determines how often they win much more than the randomness of the cards.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
WickedSkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Netherlands81 Posts
October 05 2011 21:52 GMT
#83
On October 06 2011 04:25 iPAndi wrote:
all terran units have to be here

High templar has to be 230130301/10, cause if a storm hits, and you don't micro your bio out of it, its over. Terran has no comeback units.
Drone chasing probe, Tasteless quietly watching (Artosis)
CookieMaker
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada880 Posts
October 05 2011 21:59 GMT
#84
Wow, can I disagree more with the OP's assessment of the comeback Units. One BF drop against an army out of position or one DT when there's no detection and it might as well be GG.

BF hellions and DT's are by far the highest on my comback unit list, everything else scaled down and some units completely ignored.


(Z) Infestor = 7
(T) GHOST = 6
(P) Dark Templar = 10
(T) Banshee = 8
(Z) Baneling = 4

(P) Blink Stalkers = 5
(T)Blue Flame Hellions = 10

(P) High Templar = 6
Micro your Macro
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
October 05 2011 22:00 GMT
#85
Im glad you rated infestor as 7 even though its a unit people avoid now.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
October 05 2011 22:04 GMT
#86
Do does the OP just completely ignore drops and harassment? Like I don't understand this at all. How are medivacs and warp prisms not comeback units? Nydus Worms? Come on, this game hasn't been counter v counter v counter for a whole year.
Cain0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom608 Posts
October 05 2011 22:07 GMT
#87
Mules are the best comback unit as they can support an economy without any SCV's. They are quite hard to micro though.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25993 Posts
October 05 2011 22:08 GMT
#88
How was this thread allowed to stay open? TL goes to shit when I'm away. This is completely arbitrary. You can make Starcraft fun by controlling your units well and coming back that way. You don't need a dice-roll unit to make it fun.
Moderator
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27158 Posts
October 05 2011 22:19 GMT
#89
I was actually thinking about this in the shower this morning. The part of the equation I think the OP is missing. CBU rating is the start, but the principle of the comeback is based on time. CBU fragility + ability to delay + cost are the three variables that give you the time that such a unit buys you. And in SC, time is a really overlooked factor.
ModeratorGodfather
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 81
CranKy Ducklings23
LiquipediaDiscussion
PiG Sty Festival
22:20
PiG Sty Final Qualifier
Rogue vs NightMareLIVE!
ShoWTimE vs Krystianer
PiGStarcraft421
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft421
SortOf 169
ProTech136
Livibee 29
TKL 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9023
Britney 5860
Flash 2828
Sea 2062
actioN 740
Bisu 525
Shuttle 384
Jaedong 338
Soulkey 235
Stork 216
[ Show more ]
Mong 196
Leta 155
Pusan 154
Larva 143
Mini 131
Soma 127
ZerO 123
Snow 117
Light 97
Last 93
Sharp 87
Shine 80
JulyZerg 59
Killer 48
Rush 46
Barracks 43
GoRush 30
ToSsGirL 29
Backho 28
Aegong 28
NaDa 24
Terrorterran 17
Sea.KH 17
Hm[arnc] 17
Sacsri 12
scan(afreeca) 12
sorry 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm109
XcaliburYe53
League of Legends
JimRising 340
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1453
byalli600
kRYSTAL_53
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King133
Other Games
gofns21915
Liquid`RaSZi916
ceh9640
Happy347
XaKoH 188
Fuzer 142
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 834
Other Games
gamesdonequick749
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 30
lovetv 17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1193
• Stunt594
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
19m
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
TKL 8
Replay Cast
13h 19m
Online Event
23h 19m
LiuLi Cup
1d
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
Big Brain Bouts
1d 6h
Serral vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 16h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
LiuLi Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-10
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.