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On April 11 2012 02:34 gonzaw wrote:
Thank you Toad for another pointless post from you.
1)
Yes you are tunneling me, even if you "think" I'm town. The only focus of your posts is trying discredit me, arguing with me and saying how I'm an idiot. You can't possibly say that's untrue, that last post of yours is proof of that.
2)
I'm not tunneling you, or if I am I try not to. I'm giving you plenty of opportunities to redeem yourself by asking for your reads and thoughts of the game so far, which you clearly refuse to do and instead try to discredit me more.
3)
P.S: I can't possibly believe anyone will think those things I pointed out are town traits. Filler and fluff-filled posts that say nothing, not contributing at all, not giving reads when asked, not commenting on what's happening in the thread, being too verbose and making heavy posts that ultimately say nothing are the opposite of town traits.
@Katina: Please post your thoughts on the events of the last day.
What do you think of ST? What do you think about the Hassy wagon that formed 5 hours before the day ended? What do you think about the people involved in them, or about the people that opposed it and decided to keep their vote on Janaan?
Ok screw this, you die tomorrow. Seriously. I am going through this one by one.
1) Thanks for repeating what I just said. It's night. I'm not going to make big cases at night and tell everyone what I said. You're basicly asking me to help mafia here.
2) That's a lie. There's not a single question I did not answer. Show me a question from ANYONE (not even only you) in this thread I did not answer.
I told you about my reads, you even agreed that I did that yesterday and said something along the lines "well yes you did, but I shouldn't have to ask you, you should be telling me your reads without me having you to ask you" which is obviously again asking me to help mafia.
3) You haven't pointed out a SINGLE THING until now. You keep on saying I am wishy washy and not taking stances. I know I am posting walls of text a lot but I AM taking stances. I said what I think about tunkeg, I said what I think about Janaan, I said what I think about Ghost & Hassy, I said what I think about WBG, I said what I think about Kenpachi, I said what I think about VE. How am I not giving reads? And again, everything else is what I do all the time although I don't think I'm not contributing. People actually already said stuff along the lines "yes Toad posts wall of text but he is contributing and although it's a little heavy on text you can see what he's trying to say". So no that's just not true.
Not to begin with the fact that you keep on saying my style is completly different from my other games yet you haven't shown a single example of something like that, but keep on saying so while complaining I haven't shown that my style actually is the same as one of the games. Newsflash, even if my style is completly different (which a lot of people already said is bullshit) compare L with Storm, or AC with Storm, or L with AC. Is my style exactle the same all the time? Hell most people called me out in Storm because my style was so different that game d1. What was my alignment in all those 3 games?!?!? Right town.
There's simply no way you're that wrong. I'm getting you lynched tomorrow.
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Same old song and dance ~
I seriously need to re-look into both Gonzaws and Toads filters, it could be two townies juking it out or one of them could be scum trying to eliminate an active player from the towns roster.
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I'm calling it two townies. Gonzaw has been trying really hard to drive discussion and stuff since no one else really stepped up to do it, and I think he is frustrated at Toad's posting style, which is kinda ironic considering he was on the other end in SoaF.
Toad may not be concise, but it is not malicious verbosity - his posts may be large but that is just how he writes. The posts themselves have content. If you want to argue on this point gonzaw I'd be happy to defend Toad since you are clogging up the thread right now, and Toad is responding because he looks like crap if he doesn't (and no doubt you will accuse him as scum for going quiet).
Seriously back to Hassybaby. Gonzaw, you need to step back and evalutate the thread objectively. Like here,
On April 10 2012 12:55 gonzaw wrote:
The thing that I found odd is that there wouldn't be many reasons for scum to try a mass-switch on Hassy if they could be content in keeping their vote on Janaan (at least the ones that did).
Well, if Hassy is town though, if Hassy is scum they could try to gain some town cred by FoSing a teammate who wouldn't get lynched, but damn his wagon grew very fast that seems unlikely to happen (or it grew so fast scum decided to go back to Janaan).
Toad was one of the first to do it. If Toad is scum then you have to accept that it was some gambit to create another counterwagon lynch, and that it was stopped by the lack of time to get enough votes.
You are keen in pointing out lurkers. I would like to point out that Hassybaby fits the same bill and would like it if you didn't treat him as town sheerly because you think Toad is scum.
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On April 11 2012 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey Katina! You're way off on your read of me! Allow me to clear it up! What don't you like about my play?
MidnightGladius said it best. Your votes are all over the place. Where's the focus? You have none. Voting all over the place, especially before lynch time, is a great way to get a no lynch. Not to mention a great way to make us wonder what you really think about people. You've nearly voted for more people than there are mafia.
You need to be held accountable for your flubbery.
On April 11 2012 02:34 gonzaw wrote:
Thank you Toad for another pointless post from you.
Yes you are tunneling me, even if you "think" I'm town. The only focus of your posts is trying discredit me, arguing with me and saying how I'm an idiot. You can't possibly say that's untrue, that last post of yours is proof of that.
I'm not tunneling you, or if I am I try not to. I'm giving you plenty of opportunities to redeem yourself by asking for your reads and thoughts of the game so far, which you clearly refuse to do and instead try to discredit me more.
P.S: I can't possibly believe anyone will think those things I pointed out are town traits. Filler and fluff-filled posts that say nothing, not contributing at all, not giving reads when asked, not commenting on what's happening in the thread, being too verbose and making heavy posts that ultimately say nothing are the opposite of town traits.
@Katina: Please post your thoughts on the events of the last day.
What do you think of ST? What do you think about the Hassy wagon that formed 5 hours before the day ended? What do you think about the people involved in them, or about the people that opposed it and decided to keep their vote on Janaan?
Russian: Cпутник The Sputnik is a Russian satellite that was launched by the Soviet Union in the mid 1950's and ignited the space race between the United States and the Soviet Union
His filter is sad. Lots of insults that don't contribute. But his reactions seem legit. He's definitely frustrated with all the JubJubs in this game. Can't blame him for that. He still needs to step up and contribute, I'm not ruling him out yet. But there are plenty better amphibians to kill.
The hassy bandwagon was a terrible thing to start so close to lynch time. But this happens every game with majority lynch, especially on day 1. I don't think Janaan was the best lynch but nothing can be done now. I think Hassy is a little suspicious, but the wagon wasn't big enough to warrant much attention. We should keep it simple and focus on the players causing chaos, not contributing, and writing big walls of nothing (Froggy, VE, etc)
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On April 11 2012 03:09 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey Katina! You're way off on your read of me! Allow me to clear it up! What don't you like about my play? MidnightGladius said it best. Your votes are all over the place. Where's the focus? You have none. Voting all over the place, especially before lynch time, is a great way to get a no lynch. Not to mention a great way to make us wonder what you really think about people. You've nearly voted for more people than there are mafia. You need to be held accountable for your flubbery.
On April 10 2012 14:37 Katina wrote:
Life happens.
Personally, MidnightGladius post about VE's voting just sold me. I encourage everyone to read through his filter. To shut up wherebugsgo, the point isn't about him switching votes so many times. It's about his inconsistency through day 1. Seriously. You ignoring the main point about MidnightGladius's accusations says a lot about your alignment. Thanks for making it easier on the rest of the town. <3
Froggy boy still needs to die. Cha Ching
So, do you want to try that one again?
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Toad, still waiting about that question I asked you.
Johnnywup. Sheeping VE a lot. Thoughts
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On April 11 2012 03:14 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 03:09 Katina wrote:On April 11 2012 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey Katina! You're way off on your read of me! Allow me to clear it up! What don't you like about my play? MidnightGladius said it best. Your votes are all over the place. Where's the focus? You have none. Voting all over the place, especially before lynch time, is a great way to get a no lynch. Not to mention a great way to make us wonder what you really think about people. You've nearly voted for more people than there are mafia. You need to be held accountable for your flubbery. Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 14:37 Katina wrote:
Life happens.
Personally, MidnightGladius post about VE's voting just sold me. I encourage everyone to read through his filter. To shut up wherebugsgo, the point isn't about him switching votes so many times. It's about his inconsistency through day 1. Seriously. You ignoring the main point about MidnightGladius's accusations says a lot about your alignment. Thanks for making it easier on the rest of the town. <3
Froggy boy still needs to die. Cha Ching So, do you want to try that one again?
No.
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On April 11 2012 03:31 Hassybaby wrote:
Toad, still waiting about that question I asked you.
Johnnywup. Sheeping VE a lot. Thoughts
sry missed that one. I don't know what to think about johnny yet, haven't looked into his filter a lot. Sorry I don't have anything more than that. Feel free to interpret anything in that. It's either the truth or me not willing to tell you more before the night is over :p
I know, that's probably the worst possible answer ever because THAT really is nothing but I'm not going to post more about that right now 
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On April 11 2012 03:06 slOosh wrote:
I'm calling it two townies. Gonzaw has been trying really hard to drive discussion and stuff since no one else really stepped up to do it, and I think he is frustrated at Toad's posting style, which is kinda ironic considering he was on the other end in SoaF.
Toad may not be concise, but it is not malicious verbosity - his posts may be large but that is just how he writes. The posts themselves have content. If you want to argue on this point gonzaw I'd be happy to defend Toad since you are clogging up the thread right now, and Toad is responding because he looks like crap if he doesn't (and no doubt you will accuse him as scum for going quiet).
It's not only his posting style, it's the fact that he doesn't seem to try to even contribute.
At first he just stated he wanted to policy kill Kenpachi and that Hassy and wbg were weird. Then he does nothing to comment on what happens in the thread (for instance about Tunkeg, or 4face, or ST, etc), and then immediately jumps on ghost and keeps ignoring everything else, just mentioning he doesn't want to lynch Tunkeg (still no mention of other important factors in the day).
Then he keeps that and jump on Hassy and stays there.
I don't see much effort from him to keep up with things, he just focused on 3-4 players, disregarded the 1st two and then stayed on the latter two but still failed to make any worthwhile contributions IMO. I mean, he could have asked people about ghost, he could have pushed him more and try to get him lynched; but no, he just voted him and did nothing, even when I pointed out that would result in a NL.
Of course now he says that posting his thoughts "helps mafia".
You could make arguments that maybe discussing too much at night helps mafia (although it's not that valid, we still need discussion at night), but you can't possibly justify not posting your thoughts on Day 1 with that reasoning.
Assuming you are town, do you know what actually helps mafia? You purposefully avoiding contributing because you think "it helps mafia", which makes other people think you are actually mafia bullshitting everybody.
Of course, he spends 70% of his posts berating me, discrediting me, being "angry" at me and doing nothing else; even though I point out that that specific behaviour is one of the things that makes me suspicious of him.
@Toad: I didn't really have the time to post individual things from your other filters, but if I have the time I'll do it now.
Also, were you scum in a previous game toad?
On April 11 2012 03:06 slOosh wrote:Seriously back to Hassybaby. Gonzaw, you need to step back and evalutate the thread objectively. Like here, Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 12:55 gonzaw wrote:
The thing that I found odd is that there wouldn't be many reasons for scum to try a mass-switch on Hassy if they could be content in keeping their vote on Janaan (at least the ones that did).
Well, if Hassy is town though, if Hassy is scum they could try to gain some town cred by FoSing a teammate who wouldn't get lynched, but damn his wagon grew very fast that seems unlikely to happen (or it grew so fast scum decided to go back to Janaan). Toad was one of the first to do it. If Toad is scum then you have to accept that it was some gambit to create another counterwagon lynch, and that it was stopped by the lack of time to get enough votes.
Yes, now I realize that it would make sense for scum to push a lynch on Hassy at the last minute (even more if Hassy is town). They know Hassy won't get lynched because there is no time for a mass-switch to him, and they know either Janaan will get lynched or there will be a NL.
If Janaan gets lynched, then they gain cred for not being on his lynch and "trying to switch the lynch on actual scum", therefore creating the Day 2 misslynch and making it so they have something to do in Day 2.
If it's NL, well they know Janaan will still be pushed on Day 2 and they can do the same thing all over again.
This is speculation though, but I won't rule it out now, so those that jumped on Hassy don't look better right now.
You are keen in pointing out lurkers. I would like to point out that Hassybaby fits the same bill and would like it if you didn't treat him as town sheerly because you think Toad is scum.
Well, I think the roleplaying thing from Hassy works in his favour.
It puts too much attention on him, and like it happened with Foolishness on Aperture it tends to make people want to kill you for it. He made some sense after he stopped the roleplaying thing about the lynch going against him; so I don't think he's scum right now any more than the other lurkers.
He's been very quiet right now though, that's unsettling.
About VE and Midnight's Case:
Okay, first of all, I don't think MG's case is that good. VE switching his votes to Janaan, then Hassy then back to Janaan (I think) is not actually suspicious, and I don't see him being scum because of it.
And his "stance" on lurkers doesn't tell me much, he could have changed his stance on them mid-game.
What I find suspicious about VE is what I said before, he didn't seem committed in the first part of Day 1, hell he even bandwagoned on the Tunkeg vote and didn't seem to care about it.
I made a post about it so check my filter.
Now he's more active, but I don't find it too convincing. He started getting active but only to tunnel Hassy, and make other semi-useless posts about directing blues, and berating 4face, etc.
I don't see him focusing on other players either, just on Hassy, nobody else. He doesn't post any meaningful opinion on any other player, or has any other scum reads nor doesn't even try to create more scum reads.
I wouldn't find a VE+Toad scumteam surprising at all
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Mafia 48 was the only time I played mafia in a normal game. Incognito hosted that game and wbg co-hosted it.
I also was Mafia in resistance 1 but that's a little weird imo, so I'd rather check out 48 if I were you.
You're still getting lynched tomorrow.
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Hmmm, so Janaan flipped town. That certainly does suck. My bad guys. I thought (for obvious reasons) that my case was strong. Oh well, hopefully my next one will be on target.
A lot of dumb squabbling is going on for no reason. People are argueing because they refuse to be wrong in a game of mafia. Lose the ego and play the fucking game please. It gets tiring seeing people call each other stupid because their views differ on something.
Looking back at the voting patterns, I personally can't see what people are saying about VE. Yes, his vote swaps back and forth are unfortunate. But why would a few mafia players come out and try to stop a possible vote train on Janaan (who scum knows is town) by trying to start another train on Hassybaby. It doesn't make much sense. Mafia would much rather a miss-lynch then a no-lynch. I mean, you feasibly could make a case either way, but running too much interference in a strong case (which I believe I had on Janaan) would only draw attention to yourselves.
I'm going to hold off on who I think is scummy until closer to deadline. I might not be here (have BJJ class) but I will hold off until the last possible second to throw down the people who I think have dirt.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On April 11 2012 03:35 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 03:31 Hassybaby wrote:
Toad, still waiting about that question I asked you.
Johnnywup. Sheeping VE a lot. Thoughts sry missed that one. I don't know what to think about johnny yet, haven't looked into his filter a lot. Sorry I don't have anything more than that. Feel free to interpret anything in that. It's either the truth or me not willing to tell you more before the night is over :p I know, that's probably the worst possible answer ever because THAT really is nothing but I'm not going to post more about that right now
We'll agree to disagree on that point I guess. Thanks for answering.
I'm glad I started asking question actually, three of the lurkers came back and started posting again. michaelthe, your turn
What the hell? Start explaining your actions. You initially thought Janaan was scummy, but your vote switches are hopeful at best:
On April 10 2012 08:08 michaelthe wrote:
Although it now looks like the Hassy train is picking up speed, so I'll hop on! I hope he flips scum since that will give us a lot of info on a few people. If he flips town, I think we have less info than if we hit Janaan, but w/e.
Then you think that Janaan isn't scum now but STILL vote for the train?
On April 10 2012 09:43 michaelthe wrote:
Then again, Im not really convinced Janaan is actually scum. I guess if Im not convienced that either is scum, Id rather have around Hassy than Janaan tomorrow.
##Unvote: Hassybaby
##Vote: Janaan
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rofl, this game...
VE, wanna time when we post the DT/vig lists? Like, post them at the exact same time to avoid one influencing the other? I'm curious to see what yours will look like in comparison to mine.
@Gonzaw and Toad, you guys should probably stop cluttering up the thread, you're both just wasting huge amounts of time. Getting mad for being suspected and then retaliating by suspecting the other guy isn't productive.
@FourFace if you have a problem with my play, fine. As I said vigis don't have to listen to me or any other player trying to direct blues. If you think I am town then it'll hopefully help. However if you're a town vig and you're unsure about who to shoot on n1, it's always better to hold your shot. You could be like MrZentor from GoT and shoot sandro n1, or layabout from DFM2 and shoot a townie over a scum (when I told him who would be better hahaha. Though he went to sleep, guess it wasn't totally his fault)
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OK. These 1v1 feuds need to stop. Gonzaw vs Toad your arguing will get you nowhere.
We need to consolidate the lynch candidates for tomorrow. This will depend heavily on whether or not sputnik will die tonight-- if no one shoots him then I've no doubt he will get plenty of votes tomorrow.
It's probably better to keep from lynching the most outspoken people because they will always attract a lot of hate whether or not they are town or scum. We should be targeting people that are attempting to fly under the radar.
Katina (filter link) has been flying under the radar and I'm not sure why he hasn't picked up any suspicion for it. He talks a lot but never calls people town or scum which is something that I am often tempted to do when I am mafia. Also I don't like how he is voting VE simply because of voting patterns.
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Final thoughts about Toad:
First of all, here's his filter this game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046&user=40853
And here are the filters from his last 3 games as town (if I recall correctly):
Storm Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=40853
Arkham City: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=40853
L: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40853
And here is the filter of the game he was scum:
XLVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&user=40853
Now that I checked his scum game from 48, one thing that caught my eye was his similar "wall of text" style when discussing mostly pointless things, like here:
On December 05 2011 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 07:55 vaderseven wrote:
He mentions some truth and not so good things in a mixed up manner here.
No lynches make day 1 worthless and the daytime is the time that the town has power. The town is an uninformed majority (or else the game is over) and a majority controls the lynch. In his list of 3 goals for day 1 I find goal 1 to be one that is there to just discredit aggressive players, point 2 is 100% correct and the only real goal, and point 3 is a neutral fall back thing to state as any alignment.
He says a no lynch isnt the end of the world but then makes it clear how we should never start of thinking it is a goal.
I really think he is trying to subtlety push this option. He doesn't want to get labeled as pushing it but is trying to bring up every small detail that can be viewed as positive for such a end to the day.
His 2nd goal, the one that matters the most and is the most correct, is the one that he is not doing himself. I find that to be scummy as hell. He KNOWS the reasons for needed votes and cases and yet has a RNG vote (that he declared before making was worthless via stating that RNG isn't useful). I interpreted what he said as disagreeing with me and some other people who said a no-lynch is the worst possible option for town. I think he just wants to imply that a "probably-/maybe-townielynch" is worse than a no-lynch and I just don't think so. He wants to have this option as a final save I guess, instead of lynching someone he thinks is a townie. However I think he's wrong with that one because as far as I can see a no-lynch will be ruining town-atmosphere. A no-lynch happens when there's no majority so town splits up, which does not have to be the end of the world but if there's noone telling us which side was right it will give us a 2nd day that's just the very same discussion again, with everyone who thought his choice on day1 was right thinking his choice is still right and the other way arround. If that happens town atmosphere is really screwed imo. Happened 2 games ago to me and I don't want it to happen again. I was a blue in a beginners-mini and said something along the lines "everyone please start posting, no matter if you're blue or green we need you and if you're a blue trying to hide that really gives you away". So a bunch of people came along and said I'm scum because I'm telling blues to reveal themselves and they tried to lynch me and someone else. A no-lynch happened and we had the same scenario for 3 days until I got shot on night3 by mafia. Days 1 and 2 were wasted because there was a huge fight over who of us two is actually mafia, day 3 was wasted because of a shitty decision that had nothing to do with that.
Sooooo, I don't really want that to happen again.
For instance, he starts babbling about a previous game of his, which is just pointless filler.
Something similar to some of his posts this game:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2012 03:48 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 03:13 gonzaw wrote:On April 10 2012 03:00 Toadesstern wrote:
Gonzaw here is what we do and what we don't:
We do lynch people who are faking something, pretending to do think X while actually doing/saying Y.
We do not lynch random people who we think to be bad in a game were 90% of the playerbase is a mixture of some new guys. Sure there might be mafias in there but those guys could very easily be bad townies as well.
Therefore I am discrediting you. I think you're incredible wrong but I think you're honest with it. I'm fine with that for as long as I keep thinking that way.
That's the reason I think ghost is the best lynch imo. I think this guy is faking big time. What does the bolded part have to do with me? Give me your thoughts on Janaan and VE NOW! Really, me and other people find you suspicious because you don't post your thoughts on current events nor take stances, and here you are continuing to avoid posting your thoughts on current events nor taking stances. Are you kidding me? You asked like 6 guys what they think about me and EVERYONE said they don't think anything you said about me is alignment indicating. The bolded part has something to do with you because it apparently shows you have no idea what to look for when scumhunting because you think guy-plays-bad = mafia. You said me discrediting you while saying you're looking townish is something weird when it's actually not at all weird. You want me to OMGUS just because of your case that everyone in here agrees is bullshit? Would that make me look townish in your book? I hope not and I desperatly hope that you take a step back an overthink your stance here. You've been tunneling me all day long with no support at all yet you keep on doing that. Again, that doesn't make you mafia, that makes you stupid and I'm going to quote my very first post Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 19:35 Toadesstern wrote:
So I'd really like to have less of those "yo dude, I didn't accuse you in the first place - sure you did - no I didn't - WHAT?!?!" posts as they're pretty useless (useless like wbg's vote) and more of those "that's stupid, stop it" posts (as long as they've got at least a little tiny bit of an explanation so everyone can understand what's going on in your head) and if someone keeps doing stupid things although we told him to stop it we lynch him the next day.
You're going that road right now if you keep on like that. So please, I still think you're a townie. Take a step back and just for once try going after someone else. You've got more than enough resistance on your case about me (as in people telling you it's bullshit / it's a null), yet you keep on and actually tell me there's a couple of people thinking the same way. About your question on VE and Janaan: I'm going to answer this question and it's going to be the last one I answer for you because you make it sound like I am trying to not answer questions (saying I dodged the question about tunkeg 10 times which is a blatant lie) when in reality I am answering every single question you guys are asking me to a point wbg said he thinks that I should ignore those things and post less. So PLEASE stop pretending I'm ignoring questions when I am not. VE looks really weird. I don't think his play is off. However I had the same feeling about him in C9++ where I said that I'd probably instalynch VE as a townie based on the fact that he changed his style so weirdly in that game. So it's the same as Tunkeg: I'm getting a weird feeling and I'm not sure if I like that or not. I'd like to give him more time as well as I think I'm pretty decent in figuring out VE. I called him mafia in Storm (SK), I called him mafia in AC (mafia) and I called him a liar who's fakeclaiming on purpose in L which made me think he'd be a mafia in that game. The liar who fakeclaimed was right but the mafia read was wrong. So again, I'd like to see some more from VE to properly understand what I'm seeing from him this game.Janaan is one of those new guys I've been talking talking about. I never played a game with him and lynching him to me looks like lynching any other scummy lurker. So I'd rather shoot him instead of lynching him as I said earlier but given we've got so many lurkers we might have to lynch into those due to cheer numbers. I'd rather lynch into people like Ghost and Hassybaby right now. Ghost because I think he's faking. Hassy because he seems to be lurking on purpose. He did 1 or 2 posts d1 (RL d1) and did nothing today. I posted something about him and that he's one of the guys I like to lynch because he's not a classical lurker but rather someone who's barely above that edge of being a lurker. He delurks and responds with Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 23:34 Hassybaby wrote:
A good day to you all. First off, FourFace, I owe you an apology. I believe my opinions of your socialistic tendencies were misleading and I feel the opposite as of now. Since that specific comment, I feel that you have started to show your loyalty t the throne, and i will continue to consider you a valuable member of the court if you do so again.
You raise interesting points about sputnik. I admit, this is my first meeting with the young man, but it does feel like his emphasis on it being his first step into the major social circles of the courts is a setup for later faux pas incidents, and then we will reference back to that little statement, then laugh it off. That irks me greatly.
I am also still not convinced by the intentions of Janaan. His responses to the passivity that he has shown this game has not convinced me. He would be my second choice in our potential imposter list.
And yes Toad, I do agree that my integration has not been at the highest of levels in this party. I assure you that will change as of this moment. which is still an empty promise he did as he never started to post something after that post except for his EBWOP to vote for someone. I don't think lynching into lurkers would be bad but I think it's like a shot into the blue to some degree. I think lynching someone like ghost or Hassy would be more of an accurate move rather than shooting into a group of something like 7 or 8 people which mafia can easily manipulate into making us lynch the wrong guys. However I have yet to see someone tell me what they think about ghost and hassy as people seem to ignore those 2 which is again, only making me feel more comfortable.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2012 21:59 Toadesstern wrote:Sup guys. lynch Hassy tomorrow, lynch VE the day after that and we win. Also here's an awesome laya-style flowchart. It's really easy and explains what to do as a DT this night considering me: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/maYpH.jpg) That being said. Still reading the last 5 pages and I'm only a little (!) pissed right now. I need someone to stop me from raging though, if people like gonzaw keep on beeing gonzaw because I'm going to find a way to punch them in the face via Internet (@GM: Don't worry that's just an euphemism for getting him killed in this game and I'm not actually talking about punching him in the face). Also since there seems to be some idiots (read: Gonzaw and VE, pretty sure VE is a mafia who's being stupid on purpose though) suggesting shooting me would be awesome I'd like people to consider me and Jackal as medic protection targets as well.Although people keep thinking about my AC performance all the time because that shit was seriously hilarious I am actually quite good as townie myself imo. Remember L? People wanted to kill me because I was right ALL THE TIME with my mafia reads and they thought I bussed 4 out of my X ( don't remember how many mafias that game had) to look townish because people didn't believe my reads were better than those people like wbg, SS and so on had. Remember the mason log with SS wbg?
In 50 I killed half of the mafias myself. In Storm I was on WBG's ass (who everyone considers to be a really good mafia player) and VE's ass from day1 on (well and RoL but everyone knew RoL was mafia so that probably doesn't count) and sadly noone listened to me and kept lynching whatever wbg wanted to be lynched. That being said I think I'm quite good myself and would like to be alive tomorrow :3You may ask "Toad why are you painting a big red cross above your head right now? You're making yourself a big target right now". But fear not because VE is mafia and he actually knows that I'm not retarded and am very much capable to find a shitload of mafias early on and the biggest flaw in my game is properly expressing what I found in people and why they are actually mafia so basicly I'm already a target. I sincerely doubt a townie vig would shoot into wbg or Jackal that early in the game because those two clearly are the best 2 players in this game. So any shots on wbg or Jackal would be from mafia imo, although it's very much a possibility that one of them or even both are mafia. Not sure about their alignment yet but you never know. Worst case would be you waste a medic on a vet who turns out to be mafia. Yeah sounds stupid but it's not the end of the world. Losing Town-WBG or Town-Jackal however would be tough. The important thing here is that a : Townie shot a mafia and townie saved mafia from death can't happen because no one would be crazy enough to shoot into those 2 as a townie. However I don't like VE requesting medic protection for him and wbg only that being said I think Jackal is a decent target as well and I myself obviously don't want to die because some Jackass thought suggesting to shoot me is a good idea because gonzaw is shitting up the thread making it look like I'm a good target while actually dozens of people tell him that I'm not. (hint hint: There's a limited number of mafias in this game, don't tell me I've got 10 mafia buddies who are telling lies to protect me) About the DT: Whatever... If you really think I am suspicious go ahead and check me but I'd rather see you try and find mafia somewhere else because you won't find any at my place. It really comes down to the flowchart I did. There's litereally only 1 guy in this thread who thinks I am suspicious and keeps barking and barking no matter how many people tell him he's got nothing that makes me look either one way or the other.
Now compare it to his filter in L for instance, he posts things like this:
On January 14 2012 03:20 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd like to hear more from candidates about who they think might be scummy. Keep it comming, everyone.
I won't vote someone who is not telling me who he thinks is scummy. Having a single guy the candidates are suspicious of is a start but I'd idealy have a bunch of names (like 3?).
On January 14 2012 06:37 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm going with sheth here. It's nice that we got this discussion going and got some information we can work with but I'd like toget back to our mayor candidates.
I still have a bad feeling about bc and the only thing that's making me consider him is that wifom part because noone thinks a mafia would want to be in the spotlight that much. However according to what people are telling me about BC he's probably one of the few people who's capable of doing this without having a problem as mafia.
I know what sandroba thinks about the massclaim and that kind of helps me but I still want to know what he and other candidates are going to do with scum. What are your reads, who are you going to lynch and why?
I think we can and should wait with this masondiscussion until we got ourself a mayor
On January 14 2012 08:06 Toadesstern wrote:I know someone already pointed it out but I'm going to point it out again: blahz0r do you mind joining the discussion? That's your filter: Klick me!Not exactly looking good. Actually looking like a guy who is about to get modkilled but for some reason you already voted so you should know that the game has already started. I know there's a couple of people who are lurking right now but you already voted so that's why I'm asking you and not everyone else.
He cares more about the game, and comments on several matters like BC's mason claim, etc; and most importantly tries to be part of the discussion by asking people their reads.
In AC, you can see he starts posting concisely, and his posts have a point, and are not all verbose filler stuff, for instance this:
On February 08 2012 02:37 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 02:30 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [a bit off-topic] +Hit that?![[image loading]](http://mail.is/palmar/derp.jpg) Poll: Do you want to hit that?Define "hit that" (3) 75% Yes (1) 25% No (0) 0% Since he often trolls day1 and is potentially a valuable town asset likely to die n1or n2, no (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Do you want to hit that? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Since he often trolls day1 and is potentially a valuable town asset likely to die n1or n2, no
(Vote): Define "hit that"
If it's a lurker you want to lynch Tyrran might be a good choice. I already said I never played with Tyrran didn't I? I don't like lynching lurkers unless I have to. And if I have to I'm going for lurkers I know are capable to play this game in the first play. If that's not possible I'm gladly lynching someone who's lurking and I never played with. Why are you defending hiro so much? It's not like I said I want to lynch him right now. He's something like #5 in my prioritylist. Maybe even lower. After all he could have some issues and he has to lurk because of some RL-stuff or whatever. It's just a (heavy) fos so far.
He posts his stance on lurkers, which is concise and to the point, unlike this wall of text here:
On April 09 2012 01:20 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 23:59 slOosh wrote:On April 08 2012 19:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Pretty easy. And yeah, you know I agree with VE when he said shooting/lynching lurkers is a nice thing to do. I agree that I don't like to lynch them early on because that gives so little information and it's really easy for mafia to just hop on lurker-wagons which essentially would give us 0 information. Of course that only works if we actually have vigs, so if there's no dead lurkers by the end of day 2 or day3 we might have to overthink that one.
So what is your conclusion on the matter of lurkers? Lynch them or no? On April 08 2012 21:18 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd actually say Risen and WBG are the only ones being suspicious for me right now. I don't think ET is that weird.
However I liked the one post from Risen I quoted so that's given me a little townread.
Right now it really feels like what I thought about VE in storm. I had a bunch of things that made me think he's town, I had a bunch of things that made me think he's mafia and I didn't know what to make of that and he ended up being 3rd party but of course this is only day1 based on a couple hours of our game :p
To you WBG is suspicious but Kenpachi isn't? What exactly makes WBG suspicious? 1) Lynch them if we need to. I'd rather see them shot and have our lynches on people were we force people to take a stance as it's quite easy for mafia to be on a lurker-lynch and argue that that's just normal as everyibe did that as well and there's very little reasoning involved other than "the guy is a lurker". However telling people you think X is scummy, Y is scummy and Z is scummy because of *insert analysis here* and seeing all 3 flipping town is a little worrying unless you're a retarded compulsive vig like SOME PEOPLE tend to be. So that's why I'd like to have real lynches and keep the lurkers for our vig/vigs if we got some unless we don't have a legit real lynch candidate around. In that case lynching a lurker is fine as a safe option imo. 2) Funny you mentioned Kenpachi. He's the guy I'd like to shoot if I had to shoot someone other than wbg right now. But that's not because he's suspicious but because he's Kenpachi. I totally hate that "style" and he will be a controversial topic at some point in this game imo. I doubt he's going to be helpful at all all game long and he's probably going to lurk all the time while sometimes posting a couple of oneliners that have nothing to do with the thread but may or may not benefit his own ability to judge people based on reactions. That's how I feel about Kenpachi and long story short = he's a null for me and I doubt he's going to go highly either the one or the other way in reads so if I had to shoot it'd be a coinflip option which is bad but really a secure shot because it's not like shooting Kenpachi is going to harm the game like shooting a Vet would if that guy turns out to be a townie.
You can also see in AC how he comments on a lot of players.
He comments about layabout, Palmar, Radfield, BM, Kenpachi, hiro, etc, etc ,etc; unlike this game where he solely focuses on a handful of players and ignores the rest.
On Storm Mafia now.
Yes, he posts some walls of text there, but they don't seem too verbose and seem to have more content in them, for instance this one:
On February 23 2012 02:04 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 00:59 syllogism wrote:On February 22 2012 22:22 Toadesstern wrote:
ok I'm back here for half an hour. Still reading everything and I'm going to vote redFF for now.
I'm not sure yet we really should lynch him simply because I doubt that mafia would be so vocal so early on. He was basicly BEGGING to get heat for that policy lynch. But then again I do the same as mafia and like to take heat because I think I can take it. All I've read from redFF so far indicates that he thinks very highly about himself so it's a possibility although it's totally wifom (in both directions).
I think chaosers answeres to my case were decent and he's no longer my scumread #1 because of that.
I am not going to lynch BC based on that because I got a different conclusion and I don't want to lynch into vets on d1. D1 is the hardest lynch because we have so little information and yet you want to straight away lynch BC?
So it's really only redFF I'm left with right now or a rnd-lurker, but most people here are actually talking.
Will be back in something like 3 hours I hope. Depending on my train and the shity internet my parents got...
And I'll read this all on train. I'm not liking you so far in this game. This post doesn't read like what I would expect from you and I'm not sure how exactly you determine whether someone is a "vet" or not and as such "untouchable" on d1. Why were you fine with lynching Chaoser but not fine with lynching BC? You seem unsure about redff but still want to lynch him over everyone else. Is this correct? What do you think about his tracker claim and what I've said about it? back and got Internet \o/ Yeah I realize that A LOT of people are vets in this game. That's why I said earlier that saying that probably is stupid because there's so few people in here who are not at least decent. I was fine with lynching Chaoser because I thought it's odd. I thought the same way in my last game about him, told people about it, Chaoser got in the thread and explained everything which made him look pretty townie to me that game. Imo the same is happening this time. I had some issues with him that made him my #1 read but his answeres and effort were decent enough to settle for someone else. I am not fine with lynching BC because I already explained that I saw the very same things you saw about him but got to another conclusion and so far it's nothing that makes we mant to lynch him. Additionaly he's one of the guys I'd like to not lynch d1 but that's my opinion. I wouldn't be willing to lynch you either. Yes I am unsure about red and for me he's something like a backup lynch. I don't think that the situation about redFF is going to be better very soon because as already mentioend the claim is a hard thing to judge. I do agree that 1 tracker on both sides sounds reasonable but I also agree that 2 on town side would be a reasonable as well. No to begin with the fact that maybe red is a mafia tracker after all, we got a towntracker (e.g. your "theory" is right) and that guy is simply not willing to claim yet because he wants to think this thing trough. So far I'm trying to ignore the tracker-claim. I do not thing any result he could deliver would help him and therefore I do not think it should be an issue for his alignment at all because it could be both. About the situation not going to get better: Mafia tracker is totally possible as well and no matter what red is going to tell us it's not going to improve his situation so we will have to lynch him eventually. That's why he's some kind of backup lynch for me. I don't really feel that strong about his scummyness because I still doubt he'd do that as mafia (which is wifom) but I don't think it would be a bad lynch either. The whole argument about this wagon forming so fast is obviously bullshit. Yes I agree that mafia probably wouldn't bus one of their buddies so early. 14 vs 4 sounds somewhat to townfavored for me so I'd say we got thirdparties or something like that. Let's just assume 12 vs 4 for the sake of numbers. I just don't believe they'd be willing to make it 12 v 3 so easily. Still we got a bunch of people defending him and I am softdefending him as well. It's not like he's a confirmed town and what he did was weird to say the least. So I can see how people want to lynch him and the real problem is that this lynch is so incredible easy for mafia to sheep if he really flips town, not the fact that it's fast. So what I said above is about the situation we got right now and about redFF. Now to my thoughts about possible lynches. I'd say the 3 best candidates for a lynch right now are either VE, BH or red. I already explained the part on red in detail and yeah, he's my "backup"-lynch. BH is a fast one too because I agree with what Dirkzor said. VE is a meta one because I got the feeling it's mafia-VE trying to make us think we're dealing with stupid-VE. Pretty much the same as in arkham. VE's better than what he's doing right now. He clearly was overdoing it early on and while I do agree that he wants to improve and this might look like VE actually trying to help, I think he was very well aware of the fact the he was pulling a p4n on us. He's also more spammy and trollish (idk how to say that, like the posts he did to answer Jackal) than he should be. Town VE really tries hard to help nowadays. He does that by posting his reads and argueing about his reads in a "normal" fashion imo. I don't really see that "normal" fashion here and think it's him trying to make it look like his usual meta. Oh and when I said "VE really tries hard to help" I was referring to the fact that he tries hard not to fall back into his old habits and I see that happening this game without a reason. In L I saw that later on as well but he was pissed like I was because noone was listening to him and I understood that, however I don't really see a reason for that in this game. So yeah. Those 3 are the ones I'd be willing to lynch today as of now. I'm still reading a bit and I'm here. So if you want to talk to me go ahead :p
Gigantic wall of text.
Yet he comments on various situations, comments about various people he thinks is scum.
I have to admit his style in Storm is more similar to his style here than his other past games, but I still don't think it's similar enough.
For instance he still pressures some people
On February 23 2012 05:51 Toadesstern wrote:why did you vote for sandroba prplhz?  I'm trying to read something into that mistake and I can't think of something that makes sense lol
On February 23 2012 06:16 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:14 layabout wrote:
Whilst i would like to call VE dumb with have bigger things to deal with.
Voting for BC right now is not only dumb due to how people have been behaving but it a terrible move. This was first pointed out to me in Purgatory.
If there are two wagons the first wagon is significantly more likely to hit a scum because no counterwagon against a scum player would gain mafia support and the wagon would likely fail. So any successful counterwagon is much more likely to hit town than it is to hit scum because the wagon should only gain support from mafia if it is a townie.Barring a DT check, that is the only time that a counterwagon could be correct. do you think BC is town given what he posted so far?
And he gives more thoughts on other players and most importantly he discusses the current events happening in the thread and cares about it
Here is what I thought about his posting style earlier in the game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=22#440
And here is what I thought about his contributions and behaviour earlier on:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=49#969
Sorry guys, I don't have more time to make this post better, I'm going to uni right now and I won't be back before the deadline, so I'm posting this right now to make my stance on Toad known.
I hope this is enough to show you guys what I thought about his style and behaviour, so you guys can form a better opinion on him.
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On April 11 2012 04:17 Nisani201 wrote:OK. These 1v1 feuds need to stop. Gonzaw vs Toad your arguing will get you nowhere. We need to consolidate the lynch candidates for tomorrow. This will depend heavily on whether or not sputnik will die tonight-- if no one shoots him then I've no doubt he will get plenty of votes tomorrow. It's probably better to keep from lynching the most outspoken people because they will always attract a lot of hate whether or not they are town or scum. We should be targeting people that are attempting to fly under the radar. Katina (filter link) has been flying under the radar and I'm not sure why he hasn't picked up any suspicion for it. He talks a lot but never calls people town or scum which is something that I am often tempted to do when I am mafia. Also I don't like how he is voting VE simply because of voting patterns.
Am I flying under the radar? I have been here all day and yesterday I was busy (try reading my posts) Begining of day 1 I called ET and Fourface town. A lot of people have pointed this out. I called out Froggy (Toad) and supported MidnightGladius"s post against VE.
It's night so there isn't any voting going on yet. I think he's mafia for lack of focus, inconsistency, and apathy towards the town. This is what MidnightGladius's was trying to say.
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Ok, just finished catching up.
Katina, I'd like more posts from you, just generally.
I still don't like toad for his weird posting and tone. I still think sputnik is scummier,
I've been sheeping VE because, well, he's been a supporter of me in every game we've played. I know that's probably not good since I don't really know his alignment in this game but he earned my "trust". It's probably a bad idea to mindlessly sheep, even if he's been very good in every other game I've played. So that's my excuse why.
BH seems to be coming back to his good old self, that's good to see.
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Bugs I've already posted my DT-Vig list. You can post yours if you want, but obviously I won't know if it was influenced by mine or not. I know you disagree on Toad, I think you probably disagree on Jackal (for reasons I won't go into).
Other than that, I'd be interested to see your list for sure.
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On April 11 2012 03:09 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey Katina! You're way off on your read of me! Allow me to clear it up! What don't you like about my play? MidnightGladius said it best. Your votes are all over the place. Where's the focus? You have none. Voting all over the place, especially before lynch time, is a great way to get a no lynch. Not to mention a great way to make us wonder what you really think about people. You've nearly voted for more people than there are mafia. You need to be held accountable for your flubbery.
What matters is where it ended up and why. Votes are going to be all over the place as new info presents itself and people are trying to get a read on others. Gladius is forgetting that what matters is where it ended up and why. Why can't you use my votes as information rather than try and use them as evidence of my guilt? Everyone has a vote and everyone is free to use it how they will. You want to call me guilty for voting for people? That's absolutely not against the law here in Liquidia - verily, it is the order of the day!
If you find my reasoning suspicious that's one thing - but we share a scumread in Toadesstern, and in spite of that being a better indicator of my alignment than my voting patterns, even that isn't much of an indicator of alignment.
All you have to go on is our reasoning for the things we do. I've told you that my vote helps me scumhunt. Do you not accept that as reasoning for my vote pattern?
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On April 11 2012 04:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs I've already posted my DT-Vig list. You can post yours if you want, but obviously I won't know if it was influenced by mine or not. I know you disagree on Toad, I think you probably disagree on Jackal (for reasons I won't go into).
Other than that, I'd be interested to see your list for sure.
derp I must've missed it. I'll post it in a few minutes.
On April 11 2012 04:35 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 04:17 Nisani201 wrote:OK. These 1v1 feuds need to stop. Gonzaw vs Toad your arguing will get you nowhere. We need to consolidate the lynch candidates for tomorrow. This will depend heavily on whether or not sputnik will die tonight-- if no one shoots him then I've no doubt he will get plenty of votes tomorrow. It's probably better to keep from lynching the most outspoken people because they will always attract a lot of hate whether or not they are town or scum. We should be targeting people that are attempting to fly under the radar. Katina (filter link) has been flying under the radar and I'm not sure why he hasn't picked up any suspicion for it. He talks a lot but never calls people town or scum which is something that I am often tempted to do when I am mafia. Also I don't like how he is voting VE simply because of voting patterns. Am I flying under the radar? I have been here all day and yesterday I was busy (try reading my posts) Begining of day 1 I called ET and Fourface town. A lot of people have pointed this out. I called out Froggy (Toad) and supported MidnightGladius"s post against VE. It's night so there isn't any voting going on yet. I think he's mafia for lack of focus, inconsistency, and apathy towards the town. This is what MidnightGladius's was trying to say.
You have, somewhat, though I disagree with the case. You need to step up your play tomorrow.
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EPT
