EPToh hey dragoon ^_^
Lord of the Rings Mafia - Page 48
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
oh hey dragoon ^_^ | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
You really have been tunneling me all game, so I will respond to some of your arguments. I made a bad plan, I get it. We've already established that. It was an idea I had and I asked for input from other people to improve the plan, instead, everyone decided to say the plan was a bad idea so I dropped it. Why are you focusing only on Dr. H's response to the plan? A dismissive response says absolutely nothing at all. For example, I am making a dismissive statement about your arguments; does that mean we are secretly cooperating with each other? There were many other responses saying that it was bad. That takes up a majority of your large post. Then you say that I jumped onto different bandwagons until I settled on the easy target of Errandor. Take a minute to think about that. If I were mafia, I would already know that prplhz was a townie and could keep my vote on him and pretend to be afk knowing that a townie would be lynched on day 1. After Errandor got lynched, I could stand around and shout "damn! I wasn't there to stop the lynch! Of course Errandor was innocent" (like many people did say). Moving from prplhz only increased the suspicion on me, something which a mafia would not do (which is why I don't suspect OriginalName either, since he moved in the same way that I did). | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On September 21 2011 05:46 GreYMisT wrote: Cyber's post above promted me to look back over trace's posts, and I found these two gems. most notably with regards to his plan for confirming townies. Notice how in this post he acknowledges the potential flaws and the fact that it is incompete a respectfull manner towards DrH. You are selectively choosing quotes here. Look through my posts again. I rearticulate a point that I feel was valid against his criticism i.e. the idea that a person who has had the ring in the past should reveal its abilities. In fact, I act in the same way towards you and Cyber_Cheese as well agreeing with you when you articulate certain points while adding my own input. Simply because I responded to Dr. H does not mean we were working together. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 21 2011 05:51 TranceStorm wrote: @Cyber_Cheese You really have been tunneling me all game, so I will respond to some of your arguments. I made a bad plan, I get it. We've already established that. It was an idea I had and I asked for input from other people to improve the plan, instead, everyone decided to say the plan was a bad idea so I dropped it. Why are you focusing only on Dr. H's response to the plan? A dismissive response says absolutely nothing at all. For example, I am making a dismissive statement about your arguments; does that mean we are secretly cooperating with each other? There were many other responses saying that it was bad. That takes up a majority of your large post. Then you say that I jumped onto different bandwagons until I settled on the easy target of Errandor. Take a minute to think about that. If I were mafia, I would already know that prplhz was a townie and could keep my vote on him and pretend to be afk knowing that a townie would be lynched on day 1. After Errandor got lynched, I could stand around and shout "damn! I wasn't there to stop the lynch! Of course Errandor was innocent" (like many people did say). Moving from prplhz only increased the suspicion on me, something which a mafia would not do (which is why I don't suspect OriginalName either, since he moved in the same way that I did). The last time I let an anti-town plan slip, it was my first game in Cosmic Horror mafia, and I changed MrWiggles suggestion into a good one while siding against TheFerryman who called him out on it. I'm not making the same mistake twice. For that matter, if you were mafia, why did you kill or attempt to kill the other day 1 suspects? I'm iffy on that whole section of the game. On September 21 2011 05:56 TranceStorm wrote: You are selectively choosing quotes here. Look through my posts again. I rearticulate a point that I feel was valid against his criticism i.e. the idea that a person who has had the ring in the past should reveal its abilities. In fact, I act in the same way towards you and Cyber_Cheese as well agreeing with you when you articulate certain points while adding my own input. Simply because I responded to Dr. H does not mean we were working together. Until Dr. H posted with a negative light on your plan, you stuck by it and attempted to work on it, and then it was suddenly a thing to be left in the past. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On September 21 2011 06:05 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The last time I let an anti-town plan slip, it was my first game in Cosmic Horror mafia, and I changed MrWiggles suggestion into a good one while siding against TheFerryman who called him out on it. I'm not making the same mistake twice. For that matter, if you were mafia, why did you kill or attempt to kill the other day 1 suspects? I'm iffy on that whole section of the game. Until Dr. H posted with a negative light on your plan, you stuck by it and attempted to work on it, and then it was suddenly a thing to be left in the past. First off, so is your argument that I intentionally posted a bad plan so that Dr. H would be in a good light? That seems to be a very infeasible explanation for posting a plan in the first place. It's because I had a genuine idea which I believed would work. Second, I am not aware at all of what happened in your previous games, but I will maintain that proposing ideas for the town to debate about is not an anti-town measure. Before I made my proposal there was absolutely no discussion about really important issues. People were merely speculating about other unimportant things (which mafia loves to feed as you said). Because I proposed a plan, there became more focus in the town's initiative (partly helped by WBG's antics). Mafia would be fine leaving the town in the discussions that existed before my plan came around. I obviously can't account for why the mafia decided to target the people they did last night, but I will maintain that my vote switch from prplhz to Errandor would not be a move made by someone with mafia motivations. And finally, I had revised the 'plan' after Dr. H's post - from the 'chain' idea to that of the 'reveal what the ring does' idea after multiple people expressed displeasure. It wasn't only Dr. H's reasoning that convinced me to give up the plan, it was the fact that I realized that no one was going to accept my logic afterwards. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
Mafia: Let's lynch so and so. Mainly the vets with a lot of town cred. DrH: NO. We're getting that ^%$& WBG out of this game. Mafia: But.. people are really divided over his play and we could get him as an easy lyn- DrH: NO. Obey Sauron. Mr. Jackal, I've been waiting for a post after your many not so subtle comments about what you think of me. On September 21 2011 01:30 Jackal58 wrote: Mr. Heist First post. Let's quell discussion. Clearly pushing for two bandwagons is a scum play. I don't care who you are or how you slice it at the end of the day we want one candidate. Not two. We don't want to look to see who hammered the townie. We want to prevent that from happening. His proposal screams "Let's get two players wagoned so me and my buddies can hide all over the place. This syntax bothers me. Defense on DrH and an OMGUS on me. Realizes I am most likely not going to get lynched. Changes to Prplhz but likes Erandorr better. But likes both townies better than a possible 3rd party. This guy is scum. 1. Let's quell useless discussion. Filtering through some of DrH's post, what does he do but start off the game trying to get people distracted by LOTR lore. Yes, not a terribly useful first post, but in no way do I want everyone to stop talking. 2. A misunderstanding. A lot of one-liners tend to happen if there is a misread. I stand by what I said about lynch candidates. You say my supposed goal is to let my mafia buddies hide all over the place as opposed to...hiding in one place comfortably with an easy lynch? I'm not asking we artificially disregard a really illuminating analysis fingerpointing someone as likely mafia just to have two bandwagons. Just don't settle for a "ehh" lynch simply to disallow multiple bandwagons. 3. Syntax. OK. What does it mean that I used both 'we' and 'town' in the same paragraph? townies led to town. That's just how it ran in my mind. 4. I defended a lot of people there. Ya it sucks that one of them turned up as scum. A bad read. It was still pretty early but his level of activity, calling people out and making his opinions on people known are generally what I would contribute to town play. That's all I can say. I assure you that I didn't take offense to your comment about the bandwagons. Day 1 had many easy lynches. No need for me to help start one on you if I was mafia. 5. Yeah because I totally knew both were townies. I had no good scum reads day 1. I made it abundantly clear that my priority for lynching was purely based on who could most likely be mafia, not who is most likely not town from the leading candidates. My short thoughts on the leading lynch next. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
I'm all for lynching scum, but I highly doubt we hit scum today. There's no good candidates yet. That being said, upon rereading I have no idea why I was suspicious of Drazerk. Chalk that up to an awful hangover. I'll try to work up something better soon -Completely backtracks on Drazerk. Suspicious? Yes but... Not hard to come up with something on Drazerk with the way he played early game. I would attribute this more to a townie who realizes he made a mistake than a mafia member who made a bad accusation. It seems as if he isn't concerned with the repercussions of this act. Dangerous territory of arguing he does something so scummy he can't be mafia. But that's my gut feeling. -Not playing as a "vet" should be playing. (unhelpful to town and low level of activity). This isn't enough for me. Lot's of vets had lackluster day 1 appearances. Whether he's trying to look not useless or not is a really iffy argument that I can't necessarily conclude one way or another. -Focuses mainly on WBG but voting behavior is almost useless as any tell. For now, I don't believe he is scum based on what we have. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 21 2011 06:29 TranceStorm wrote: First off, so is your argument that I intentionally posted a bad plan so that Dr. H would be in a good light? That seems to be a very infeasible explanation for posting a plan in the first place. It's because I had a genuine idea which I believed would work. Second, I am not aware at all of what happened in your previous games, but I will maintain that proposing ideas for the town to debate about is not an anti-town measure. Before I made my proposal there was absolutely no discussion about really important issues. People were merely speculating about other unimportant things (which mafia loves to feed as you said). Because I proposed a plan, there became more focus in the town's initiative (partly helped by WBG's antics). Mafia would be fine leaving the town in the discussions that existed before my plan came around. I obviously can't account for why the mafia decided to target the people they did last night, but I will maintain that my vote switch from prplhz to Errandor would not be a move made by someone with mafia motivations. And finally, I had revised the 'plan' after Dr. H's post - from the 'chain' idea to that of the 'reveal what the ring does' idea after multiple people expressed displeasure. It wasn't only Dr. H's reasoning that convinced me to give up the plan, it was the fact that I realized that no one was going to accept my logic afterwards. The first point I believe to be an unexpected side-effect that accidentally benefitted you. The second was merely to point out that these things do happen and that not every bad plan should be dismissed so easily. The voting and mafia's targeting seems too open to interpretation to be relied on here. What possible reasons would 'noone accept your logic afterwards' for? If no one likes an idea, it's because it was ill-thought through. My argument here is it required your scum buddy to post before you realised just how ill-thought through it was. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On September 20 2011 12:18 chaos13 wrote: Although before I leave.. People you should trust: - Dr. H - TranceStorm - prplhz - Navillus (be skeptical, but I highly doubt he's scum) Watch out for Radfield If I had to guess, which one was his night one result, I would say he got a false godfather check on DrH. During the night, he brings up how the wbg bandwagon was an easy scum vote and suggests we take a look at DrH. The next day, he suddenly trusts DrH without providing any additional reasoning. If not him, then Radfield is probably the next most likely check, whom he never comments about until now. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On September 21 2011 06:53 kitaman27 wrote: Something I'm 100% shocked that nobody has brought up is the fact that chaos flipped Jack of all Trades. This means that he almost certainly had a day one check, watch, track, or gun check on someone. How could nobody mention this, considering he left us with the following list of players: If I had to guess, which one was his night one result, I would say he got a false godfather check on DrH. During the night, he brings up how the wbg bandwagon was an easy scum vote and suggests we take a look at DrH. The next day, he suddenly trusts DrH without providing any additional reasoning. If not him, then Radfield is probably the next most likely check, whom he never comments about until now. EBWOP | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On September 21 2011 06:48 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The first point I believe to be an unexpected side-effect that accidentally benefitted you. The second was merely to point out that these things do happen and that not every bad plan should be dismissed so easily. The voting and mafia's targeting seems too open to interpretation to be relied on here. What possible reasons would 'noone accept your logic afterwards' for? If no one likes an idea, it's because it was ill-thought through. My argument here is it required your scum buddy to post before you realised just how ill-thought through it was. Ok - your argument is something that I cannot convince you otherwise of. Given that there is no way for me to prove to you that it was not a "scum buddy's" intervention which cause me to drop my plan, I suppose that's an argument that you'll have to take in good faith. There's absolutely no way to prove or disprove what my motivations were for posting that so I'll just leave it at that. I am not scum, but if you continue to believe that, I can't argue much more against that. In the meantime, I'll go analyze some other players. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
so who do you think is scummy since you don't think that vain is scummy and you don't think that you are scummy yourself | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:04 Archon_Toilet wrote: JCARLSONIV - on the prplhz wagon who is now confirmed townie - Defends Sauron doctorh - Just crapping on about lurkers but doesnt actually say anything - Desperate to keep attention on the erandorr bandwagon rather than the one he was on. Mentions every single name on multiple occasions. This is important. It is highly likely mafia on the other big bandwagon as well, why ignore them? - Has claimed a personal interest in the ring. We know who Frodo is. Can only be Gollum or one of the nazgul. - accuses ciryandor (confirmed town) of being mafia cos he defended bugs (confirmed town) and prplhz (confirmed town) Bad votes, defends the godfather, attacks townies over and over. Has generally caused chaos, most of his post long quotewall noone can read. Vote to kill him. He is probably a nazgul. All the leading bandwagons were townies. You bandwagon arguments really hold no sway. Almost everyone voted for a townie; you can't just single him out. Lots of argument saying he has to be mafia for arguing with townies. Stop acting as if only mafia will argue and attack town. In fact, townies will be more likely to piss each other off. Arguing or defending people who flip mafia is a null tell this early on in the game. His comment about DrH is hardly a "defense". He's trying to force people to take the harder, more vulnerable route of actually having to spell out your arguments and provide reasons and opinions. Mafia can't be allowed to slide by with just their votes. You are really stretching definitions to include this as one of your "points". He has a personal interest in the ring. Great. No need to jump immediately to Nazgul. Pure speculation. I'm sure many more roles than just these can utilize the ring. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
If you filter through his posts, he says that he is trying to change his playstyle to become less spammy. This reminded me of Ver's Mafia XXX analysis (stickied in the TL mafia forum) where youngminii proclaims that his lack of activity has been because of his efforts to become less spammy. I find it a convenient explanation for his lack of analysis on most of the people in the thread. What is critical to me is that supersoft has not interacted with the thread at all throughout the game - repeatedly giving excuses for his non-actions. At one point, supersoft says this: On September 19 2011 07:58 supersoft wrote: lol whatever! i filtered prplhz and erandorr and. both dont seem very scummy to me. i think chaoser and igrok are far more scummy right now. i'll get internet access in my hotel where i stay tomorrow and will catch up. if i have to decide between both, maybe erandorr is a little bit scummier. but really, this post edit lie is straNge, but it doesnt give much information about his alignment... However, he never posts the next day except once to respond to an accusation against himself where he says that he will 'kick the scumteam's ass'. That's it. Despite saying that he would catch up and everything, he doesn't do so other than this one post. I don't know what's going on with supersoft's personal life, but he seems to be making tons of excuses to cover up his actions. Whether it be the fact that he's trying to cut down on spamminess, he's on the road, he's drunk, will only have hotel internet the next day, is working in Berlin - it seems that he is always trying to reduce his ability to give real analysis on players. Indeed, when chaos13 picks up on his wishywashiness and his slight contradictions, supersoft responds with the post containing one of his various excuses. Granted, there isn't much evidence from supersoft's posts, but I feel that supersoft's lack of behavior qualifies him as scum. He is being just as scummy as iGrok at the moment. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
Drazerk. On September 17 2011 18:59 Drazerk wrote: Looking at it I think WBG is probably lying with his claim and using it as an excuse to post bad and try and get the ring. On September 17 2011 19:32 Drazerk wrote: I think he is lying and that may of been a slip up ( Like my caller posting restriction in WAW2 ) On September 18 2011 19:09 Drazerk wrote: I am busy and just quickly glanced over 1-2 pages but to clear something up - I can not comment on and posting restrictions I may or may not have just know curu can put them in the game and he probably will have used them. Saying that WBG is lying about being golum and using it as an excuse to play badly and obtain the ring for scum he doesn't have a posting restriction. On September 19 2011 07:13 Drazerk wrote: I generally don't trust people anymore. As for WBG - I still think he is lying about his claim and getting people to go "Leave him it's just gollum who is third party" He spends most of day 1 attacking WBG. It's kind of rediculous how many times he posts the exact same thing. This is really going the extreme of posting something while saying absolutely nothing new or contributing in any way. The number of connections to DrH are also starting to be suspicious (same initial pressure vote, DrH really pushes his defense, both attack mainly WBG). On September 19 2011 08:20 Drazerk wrote: Vigi's shoot WBG. DTs scan Jackal / prphlhz If you have the ring do NOT pass it on to anyone tonight. On September 20 2011 08:17 Drazerk wrote: Told you WBG was lying about his golum claim >.< It's clear that he wants us to believe WBG is mafia trying to play off as a third party. He wants someone to use their KP to kill him night 1. What happens after the flip? He tries to gain cred by saying he was right all along about WBG. Oh no need to remember that he was actually completely wrong about his alignment. The fact that he tries to use this moment to provide justification for most of his day 1 posts when he was fundamentally wrong seems very off. For now I'll be placing my vote on Drazerk. ##Vote: Drazerk | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
it's not my fault he was a idiotic town player and got himself killed because of it. Anyhow my computer is under repairs and I won't be picking it up until sometime tomorrow afternoon. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On September 21 2011 07:16 TranceStorm wrote: Besides the the apparent scumminess of iGrok / Jackal, a player that has seemed to slip right through the cracks to me has been supersoft. Other than my disdain for the way WBG was apparently trolling the game what scumminess are you talking about? | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
I really just did underestimate the time constraint of my new job. My discretionary time is very limited right now, there is no way I can keep up with a mafia game, or spend a lot of time on the internet at all. I am happy to sub out and take a game(s) ban or whatever, it's not as if I'll be playing any mafia for the foreseeable future anyway. On the bright side, I'm a complete null this game, so the new person to sub in (if any) starts with a blank slate =) I really do apologize to redFF and Mig, and most importantly Curu. I know hosting is a pain and having players disregard your work like that is annoying to say the least. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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