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hey iGrok are you ever gonna do anything in this game? filter shows 3 posts with more than 3 lines in them (and all your 3 liners are pretty useless)
On September 18 2011 02:24 iGrok wrote:
Greymist's thing is not something to lynch for, but it is something to remember in the future. But he is someone to keep an eye on.
I think whoever said WBG is probably gollum with a post restriction is right.
But Drazerk has my biggest suspicions today, and lynching him will also give us the most information so far, both about greymist and the others who jumped on him. So,
##Vote Drazerk
first you want to infolynch drazerk
On September 18 2011 02:39 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 05:07 iGrok wrote:On September 18 2011 02:24 iGrok wrote:
Greymist's thing is not something to lynch for, but it is something to remember in the future. But he is someone to keep an eye on.
I think whoever said WBG is probably gollum with a post restriction is right.
But Drazerk has my biggest suspicions today, and lynching him will also give us the most information so far, both about greymist and the others who jumped on him. So,
##Vote Drazerk What suspicions are those? Not to mention how bout we lynch to kill scum, instead of lynching to figure out information. I'm all for lynching scum, but I highly doubt we hit scum today. There's no good candidates yet. That being said, upon rereading I have no idea why I was suspicious of Drazerk. Chalk that up to an awful hangover. I'll try to work up something better soon
next you forget why you even want to lynch him
then comes a ton of useless posts saying nothing about anybody and then
On September 19 2011 08:45 iGrok wrote:
Ok, lets review. Who of the following are the scummiest?
Palmar - Not doing much so far
Radfield - Has been active. Pulled wagons off GreyMist and WBG, onto Errandor. Suspicious.
Syllogism - Was active early on in Ring discussions.
prplhz - Leaving this until later
kitaman27 - No great analysis, but decent reasons for voting and has worked to pressure
OriginalName - After watching him play in Resurrection, he's playing the same way. Minimum contribution to avoid focus.
Vain - 1 liners except to defend prplhz
Erandorr - somehow appeared on his own vote list?
TranceStorm - I see a connection between TranceStorm and Radfield forming when I filter him. TS often references Radfield's arguements. TS also attacked prplhz early on
a list of people and obvious facts about them taking no stance on anybody. pretty much you are very useless.
another thing i noted is that you have been around at around 8:00 every day ... except first day. you were there at 7:50 but you didn't post after the game started 10 mins later which doesn't fit with your supposed "i post what i want to post when i want to post it". no opinions, lots of useless one liners, a list of rather obvious observations. it's time you sober up and do something real.
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Actually pressuring your partners early is a great tactic, but of course you don't want them lynched. I think I need to filter your posts chaoser
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okay sorry for that second quote, that wasn't radfield writing that but iGrok quoting radfield quoting igrok ... igrok just messed it up in his original post and i thought i was smart enough to correct it but then i accidentally switched the outer quote with the middle quote ... woopseedaisy.
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On September 21 2011 00:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Syllo, what are your thought about sandroba? Do you think he is 100% town or can you even consider otherwise. If so, why?
I'm leaning town so far, mostly due to him agreeing with me a lot and also based on the night kill selection. While it's possible that he is scum and simply didn't give his input or others disagreed, but I'm still leaning on towards the kills pointing toward a townie sandroba.
As for whom I would lynch on sandroba's list, my current choice would be iGrok or GGQ. Both have done absolutely nothing so far and the igrok's post I highlighted above could be a slip due to him knowing that such an ability is present in the game. GGQ voted iGrok yesterday, but igrok lynch was never going to happen and he likes throwing away his vote as scum, though that's based on a very small sample size. Jackal is the close third, but that might change if he doesn't today give his opinion on ANYTHING besides WBG. I also notice that he asked to be replaced out, not sure what to make of that.
Original name sort of found igrok/drh scummy today, though then proceeded to vote pyo instead. Still, giving him some townie points for that so I don't think he is a good target today.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Doc H:
Basically Doc H called out every single easy target possible on Day 1:
Greymist, Drazerk, Trancestorm, Vain, Rayn, supersoft, etc.
However, some of these stick out and some of them don't. Scum will always mix in a few mafia with their suspicions.
Drazerk is different though. DocH ties himself to Drazerk during the WBG push, which is what mafia like to do. He begins by calling him scummy, but then treats him like a townie right after that. This gives me slightly more faith in Drazerk, but his filter is absolutely terrible. If you're town Drazerk, please step it up.
This is his main post about suspicions:
On September 19 2011 11:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think if Jackal was mafia he'd be more careful about the rules. I really doubt prplhz is mafia, wishy washy townie who jumped to some really bad conclusions about what I was saying. He misunderstood me.
and yes, I'm dialing down my activity level in this game. I spam too much. I second guess myself too much. I think the fact that I didn't change my vote around 100 times and say every little thing on my mind is better play but I guess it comes off as a lot different from how I normally play. I read Vers guide like twice before this game.
Wiggles has a good DT checklist although Palmar/jeejee definitely warrant a check. Both have been well under expected activity levels and I think it was JeeJee who made the rather cryptic posts about shadows. Odd behavior.
Medics should go for the big veteran townie targets as usual. Myself, Radfield, JeeJee, Mr.Wiggles I would venture are the biggest targets. But really, you should use your own discretion.
Medic - pick the experienced player you think is most likely town
DT - pick the player you think is most likely scum.
Main thing that jumps out at me is Jeejee. He both warrants a dt check, and also warrants medic protection. This is after never mentioning him before. Regardless of prior meta, you never medic protect someone who is not contributing. DocH knows this.
Jeejee, you still have done nothing this game, please step it up. Assuming Jackal does not get lynched, who are you voting?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
iGrok is a good lynch today. He has been useless, but not in a useless way. In a way that makes it look like he's trying to not be useless.
GGQ, Vain, ON, Heist, Pyo: All of you need to ramp it up. Between Jackal, iGrok and Palmar, where would you place your vote?
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Mr. Heist
On September 17 2011 09:19 heist wrote:
To be honest, any talk of neutral factions is kind of pointless at this point. We have no idea what they are capable of even if they exist, and quite frankly even if there are 3rd parties, we should be focusing on scum, and scum only, right now. So please no more talk about which LOTR might be neutral aligned.
But while I'm on the topic of pure speculation, I believe the ring belongs to someone in the town or a neutral faction. It seems to make sense balance-wise and lore-wise. It starts off with the hobbits, a good faction. Sadly any game with items seems to get sidetracked into pointless discussion. For now, if you have the ring, congrats. Don't give it up and don't reveal yourself.
Nice bandwagon you got started there chaoser. I don't agree with it but hey, pressure is pressure.
First post. Let's quell discussion.
On September 18 2011 02:35 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 09:33 Vain wrote:On September 17 2011 09:26 Drazerk wrote:On September 17 2011 09:19 GreYMisT wrote:On September 17 2011 09:04 Drazerk wrote:On September 17 2011 08:56 chaoser wrote:Let's get this game started! As always, some general advice: 1) Town should stay focused. A few talking points should dominate a day cycle but never so many that it's basically everyone posting suspicions on everyone else, leading to "post-by-post analysis" of 5+ people. A disorganized town is a plus for the mafia.
2) Don't rely on power roles. Assume we have none and go from there.
3) Personally I like a bit of civility but I do understand some people like to be aggressive and it has it's uses. But let's keep the atmosphere positive instead of negative. Negative atmosphere will be detrimental to town play and at the end of the day that isn't good. Point 3 in particular should be on everyone's mind. Palmer really messed town up in the previous game by basically making Day 2 a huge mess with over-aggression and spam. And then basically the only reason mafia was lynched in that game was due to blue power, breaking point 2. Let's NOT bank on blues to win the game this time. Also, ##vote: Greymistasking for the ring outright? tsk tsk. My steel and iron comes for you. I agree with this. ##Vote: Greymist Well looks like I succeeded in getting discussion going. Out of the three people who voted for me immediately, only Dr. H and chaises gave a good reason. Daz, any other reason rather than "I agree," or is your vote a sheep vote? I actually had stated my reasons regarding the ring earlier I just didn't vote for you then. On September 17 2011 08:53 Drazerk wrote:On September 17 2011 08:41 GreYMisT wrote:On September 17 2011 08:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
From the looks of the OP there will be more than one faction in this game. I don't know much about LoTR lore actually. Are there any neutral characters/factions that might make sense in the context of the game?
I know Tom Bombadil was kind of a neutral figure right? He was just concerned about his forest or whatever The only neutral figures I can think of (I havnt watched/read LoTR in a long time) are possibly Golom/Smeagal or the Ents. I feel our best course of action day one has got to be to have whoever is in possession of the One Ring to come out of hiding and give it to me. I'll take good care of it. No one should just get given the ring especially this early in the game. We should use it in the same fashion that the hallows was used in PTP2. How the fuck is that a reason? Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 20:13 Vain wrote:On September 17 2011 19:23 xtfftc wrote:
Also, none of the currently discussed lynch targets are viable. They are all easy ones. I'd rather go for a random lynch out of the remaining players. Well who do you suggest then? Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 21:25 Vain wrote:On September 17 2011 20:57 prplhz wrote:
So if the ring bearer is lynched the ring goes to a random person who voted for him. This will encourage all scum to all vote for the person who is most likely to get lynched, so scum will have a bigger chance of procuring the ring. This makes it twice as important to have at least two candidates with as many votes as each other. So you mean we should get 2 targets and let scum decide who gets the lynch? Sounds like a plan These kind of posts are exactly what we can't allow to just slide by. You are just posting aggressive little one-liners that aren't exactly contributing much to town discussion. If you disagree with someone, I would ask that you flesh out your ideas more and provide your thoughts on specific players. Most of his posts prior to this were also 1 liners.As a side note, the reason we want at least two majority candidates is it forces everyone to make a choice. If we have just one easy target everyone votes for, we will gain absolutely no information based on the lynch since everyone voted the same. Being forced to choose creates liability and patterns will start to emerge that can be worked with. If the situation is 1 townie and 1 scum on the chopping block, and the mafia try to swing majority votes for the townie, that's a lot of information that we can use.
Clearly pushing for two bandwagons is a scum play. I don't care who you are or how you slice it
at the end of the day we want one candidate. Not two. We don't want to look to see who hammered the townie. We want to prevent that from happening. His proposal screams "Let's get two players wagoned so me and my buddies can hide all over the place.
On September 18 2011 03:14 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 02:40 Jackal58 wrote:On September 18 2011 02:39 Jackal58 wrote:
And it they're both townies what does that tell us? That was to Heist. His proposal is so pro mafia it's not even funny. It's none worse in having two townies closely leading the vote and one townie a clear frontrunner. Obviously it's not the ideal situation to find oneself in and that's why we all work tirelessly to make sure this doesn't happen. If two townies are leading the votes, town is doing something wrong.
This syntax bothers me.
On September 18 2011 19:31 heist wrote:
Gone the entire day and just found out I forgot to place my vote on Navillus. Oh well. I no longer feel like he's scum based on his subsequent responses, just a townie with some bad decisions.
WBG, DrH, and Drazerk are terrible lynches right now. WBG is definitely the easy lynch right now and most likely NOT SCUM. DrH is arguably one of the most active and most town player we have right now. Frankly, the justifications for Drazerk are weak, really really weak.
However without much better alternative, I'm liking Syllogism's plan for now. No more lurking from those that could be such an asset to the town. I will go ahead and double that pressure.
##Vote: Jackal58
Defense on DrH and an OMGUS on me.
On September 19 2011 05:58 heist wrote:
The case against Erandorr is better than against you, prplhz. Different mindsets, but I'd rather we lynch you or Erandorr than someone whom we all believe isn't mafia (WBG). The last thing I want is enough people switching their votes from you to Erandorr to place WBG in the lead for the lynch. If enough people switch over, I'll be sure to check back in at least once (hopefully) before the end of day to make the switch.
Realizes I am most likely not going to get lynched. Changes to Prplhz but likes Erandorr better. But likes both townies better than a possible 3rd party. This guy is scum.
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I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'.
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On September 21 2011 01:36 syllogism wrote:
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'.
Yeah I've been toying around with it by shifting the alphabet up and down, it doesnt really help much...
between one letter up and one down, you can make out is in the middle and wn on the end of the last word, but the rest is all jargon still so i doubt that's actually the methodology required
if your correct in assuming its regards someones alignment, the first word is 6 letters long so I could see it being these:
jackal
palmar
xtfftc
jeejee
archon
cheese
prphlz
trance
sandro?
ciryan?
I've been thinking it could be in reverse somehow too, ring is secure or something?
It's really confusing though...
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On September 21 2011 01:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 01:36 syllogism wrote:
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'. Yeah I've been toying around with it by shifting the alphabet up and down, it doesnt really help much... between one letter up and one down, you can make out is in the middle and wn on the end of the last word, but the rest is all jargon still so i doubt that's actually the methodology required if your correct in assuming its regards someones alignment, the first word is 6 letters long so I could see it being these: jackal palmar xtfftc jeejee archon cheese prphlz trance sandro? ciryan? I've been thinking it could be in reverse somehow too, ring is secure or something? It's really confusing though...
This is speculation, but It seems like there aren't enough vowels in the message to say anything worthwhile. Perhaps there will be more letters released at the end of each day.
I still think vain is acting scummy, but honestly he hasnt posted enough recently for me to get a more accurate read on him. When i get out of lab today im going to reread the thread again for anything i missed.
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On September 21 2011 01:36 syllogism wrote:
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'.
You're assuming each word uses the same substitution pattern. Doesn't have to be that way. It could be Boolean or a Fibonacci progression.
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On September 21 2011 01:53 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 01:36 syllogism wrote:
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'. You're assuming each word uses the same substitution pattern. Doesn't have to be that way. It could be Boolean or a Fibonacci progression.
I realize that, but I don't really have the tools or know-how to know where to begin if that's the case. Also it can't be too complicated given that's it's something we should reasonable be able to solve.
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Okay let's not lynch palmar today. The only thing that's keeping me from thinking GGQ is scum is that he was one of the few players that pointed out igrok scummyness very early. So I sugest that we keep the lynch between iGrok and Jackal. I'll be voting igrok since jeejee is voting jackal and he stinks mafia all over.
@rayn I know it's kinda hard to believe but I can be correct on reads as town aswell.
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Also until you figure something out about the cypher there is no point talking about what it is not in the thread.
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iGrok has done nothing to alleviate my suspicions and remains my #1 scum read. I can't find anyone who seems directly connected to him, except perhaps archon for a chainsaw vote on me after I voted igrok
I want to address the rampant tendency of people to post their town reads. Why are we doing this? Unless the person is at risk of getting lynched, there's no reason to talk about who you think is town or pro-town. You're just giving the mafia free targets.
I'm gonna take a look at that cipher now brb
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Mafia is going to shoot townies regardless GGQ. I don't think you need to comment on everyone in the game, but you need to give your opinion on those people being discussed so we can get a read on you. As town it's extremelly advantageous to both you and the rest of town that you establish your innocence. As scum it's understandable that you want to hide. So please, fuck the cypher I want to know what you think about jackal.
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On September 21 2011 02:06 GGQ wrote:
iGrok has done nothing to alleviate my suspicions and remains my #1 scum read. I can't find anyone who seems directly connected to him, except perhaps archon for a chainsaw vote on me after I voted igrok
I want to address the rampant tendency of people to post their town reads. Why are we doing this? Unless the person is at risk of getting lynched, there's no reason to talk about who you think is town or pro-town. You're just giving the mafia free targets.
I'm gonna take a look at that cipher now brb
Mafia already knows they're town.
I do it to try to influence other people's reads and stop stupid wagons. For example I tell people Sandroba is town because I want people to listen to Sandroba.
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Yes, mafia already knows that they're town, and yes mafia is always going to hit town, but the difference is whether mafia is hitting trusted town.
As an illustration, let's say there are four players left in the last night phase, and one is mafia. You are town and there is one player you trust and two that you aren't sure of. If you have outed the player that you trust to be town, mafia just kills that guy and you are screwed. Of course, even if you haven't outed it, there's a chance that mafia kills the guy you trust anyways but there's also the possibility that they kill the less trusted guy, making lylo much easier.
It gets cloudier when you enlarge the game but the principle still applies. The more people express trust of someone, the faster the mafia pop him off. I'm not saying that players should try to be scummy or lurky to avoid kills, that's just bad play, but if you think someone's posting gives townie vibes, there's no reason to publicly announce it.
And saying that you think sandroba is town because you want people to listen to sandroba isn't a good reason. If people think sandroba is town then they will listen to him. If you say that, it only influences people if they trust both you and sandroba, which is a subset of the people that trust sandroba.
As for jackal, I find him suspicious in a "I have no reason to think you are town" way, but I find iGrok suspicious in a "I have reason to think you are scum" way. Besides which, I know jackal has the potential to be valuable in a late game situation, where I don't know the same about iGrok.
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I've been taking a look through the 'fishy' candidates and I first looked at Vain.
One of the things about him is that he doesn't contribute all too much in any of the games he plays - and I've taken a look through a few of his games where he was town. Furthermore, despite being really wishy-washy about all of the candidates in question, he did place doubts on Dr. H (not very strongly, but nevertheless he did express discomfort with Dr. H). Furthermore, Dr. H at one point specifically says "Vain is definitely being antagonistic and the fact that he slipped under the radar for such bad posting isn't a good sign."
He's a curious case but I don't think he is scum.
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EPT
