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On February 24 2012 04:46 csn_JohnClark wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So.. this could just be a rumor..but comes from a very reliable source..
The amount requested by TL was 10k????
The only reason I bring this up is because I support TL's decisions, I am against how MLG handled the PPV..but if the 10K is the amount.. then I have to now disagree with TL's decision! That amount of money would be purely a 'money grab' and make what TL did here look very poor.
Can anyone confirm this amount. Any comment from TL? I love what TL is doing here and I agree with their stance on this.. but for 10K..that's absurd.
You win. Well, it at least beats the normal idiots asking questions that were already answered in the OP.
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Does anyone think the actual Team Liquid Players will get a bad draw or all be teamed up in the same pool again for this?
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On February 24 2012 03:11 SpinmovE wrote:
No, that is not what they are saying at all. They are saying that TL is the site to go to if you wish you find starcraft streams which they believe fulfill their vision of growing esports. If you don't agree with it feel free to produce your own website which I'm sure no one will visit. Goodluck!
Yeah, because PPV IS KILLING ESPORTS!!! AMIRITE???
No really. Get. Fucking. Real. The freemium "free decent quality stream with a few premium features like player cam, HD qualities and two extra streams for casting uncasted games" model is simply unsustainable for MLG especially when they have to top the 2011 Pro Circuit in terms of production, paying for travel/accomodation costs and prize money. There's a reason why MLG are going down the paywall route, and that's because they need to build a sustainable business model.
Sure, cash is more important than profits but in reality, if a business never breaks even at the very least, it's only a matter of time (and the amount of time depends on the amount of cash they have) until they run out of cash and have to shut down.
I cannot comment on MLG's finances but I assume they went PPV so that they could actually break even if not profit from their tournaments, and invest that money into improving their league.
On February 24 2012 03:11 SpinmovE wrote:
Everyone wants esports to be profitable, but people also want to pay a reasonable price for the viewing experience. Not to mention it's pretty damn hard to get your friends into watching Sc2 when they have to pay to do it. Whatever though, this horse has been beaten far too much and you clearly don't want to entertain any opinions other then your own.
And that is why you're a moron. Instead of giving a real argument for TeamLiquid's moderators doing this, you've instead made the subjective argument that you want a reasonable price and that you and your friends who probably won't get into SC2 either way are deterred by the $20 price tag.
Don't like the MLG Winter Arena price? Then don't fucking pay for it. There's already Assembly Winter on at the same time and if you want to introduce your friends to StarCraft 2, just show them another good tournament. I just think that it shouldn't be under TeamLiquid's jurisdiction to just refuse to list something on the calendar just because Sundance DiGiovanni and other MLG executives made a serious business decision to put one of their events behind a paywall, to actually make their business model sustainable in the long run.
It's a fucking major event and TL are acting high and mighty like they need to pay for a listing just because they put the stream behind a paywall. The way I see it, the calendar is for listing major and minor tournaments, SC2 events and even shows related to SC content. It's not fulfilling its role if Hot_Bid and the other mods are outright refusing to list an event just because it's gone PPV.
That's like a TV guide website demanding payment from BSkyB because they listed the programme running times for their Sky, Sky Sports, Sky Movies, Sky Altantic etc channels, just because they are CABLE channels and hence require a digital TV subscription. It makes no fucking sense.
Especially the case when they have to pay for a venue, plane tickets for all the professional gamers, a production team, for the computers they're gonna have at the venue, the booths, the other equipment, to pay the commentary teams etc, and for a prize pool.
Now try sustaining that from a ad supported model with around 80,000 viewers average.
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On February 24 2012 05:26 disgruntled187 wrote:
Does anyone think the actual Team Liquid Players will get a bad draw or all be teamed up in the same pool again for this?
A. Brackets have already been posted.
B. That just was a result of seeding based on a point system that was in place the whole time.
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On February 24 2012 05:22 Flondra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:18 JoeSchmoe wrote:On February 24 2012 05:03 robzgod wrote:On February 24 2012 04:56 ThisIsJimmy wrote:
All money issues aside, this is just a dick move by TL. Just put it on the calendar and don't link the stream. It is MLG... the largest most hyped tournament in North America all last year.
Nearly every Starcraft fan cares about it and for that reason alone it should be there. It should be that simple. Agreed, although TL might be salty for MLG charging PPV, they're really doing eSports a disservice by not supporting this tournament. By supporting this decision, you're not supporting the growth in eSports which is what MLG is trying to do. PPV is a step in the right direction and will eventually become the new norm. stop making crude generalizations about how TL is destroying e-sports by not supporting MLG. PPV will not be the norm. all evidence indicates otherwise. I love how people have somehow adopted the impression that MLG are losing money and are the good guys in all this trying to salvage e-sports. are they really? they are still one of the most well sponsored tournaments and yet offered one of the smallest prize pools in all of e-sports. You think they're just going to drop sponsors if the PPV model proves successful? yeah right. as far as I'm concerned, they're just abusing their popularity to extract more money from fans. Wasn't MLG in the red after each event, and what evidence is there that people are making a bunch of money off of SC2 right now?
Guys this isn't really about PPV.
It's about having PPV and expecting advertising from TL without paying anything.
TL doesn't really care if MLG does PPV, in fact I can probably guarantee most of the staff will buy the PPV.
The point is TL doesn't feel it should have a link to a PPV only event, that's no different than a ringing endorsement for MLG's PPV move.
In fact, every single team that MLG offered the profit referral to has refused it (either because they disagree about the price or for other reasons). Nobody's giving EG shit for not endorsing PPV. The only difference is that TL also has a website which MLG relies on to advertise their event.
If things happened as Hot Bid said (which I believe) the real question is why MLG didn't bring the conversation to a price about having Winter Arena on TL Calender. Seems retarded that Sundance is all about monetizing esports then feeling they shouldn't pay for advertising.
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On February 24 2012 05:21 csn_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 04:50 Torte de Lini wrote:On February 24 2012 04:46 csn_JohnClark wrote:
So.. this could just be a rumor..but comes from a very reliable source..
The amount requested by TL was 10k????
The only reason I bring this up is because I support TL's decisions, I am against how MLG handled the PPV..but if the 10K is the amount.. then I have to now disagree with TL's decision! That amount of money would be purely a 'money grab' and make what TL did here look very poor.
Can anyone confirm this amount. Any comment from TL? I love what TL is doing here and I agree with their stance on this.. but for 10K..that's absurd.
My God, why do you talk for Jerith? They already said that no talks of money was ever made before this reliable source ever spoke up. It's all now "he said/she said" and since TL already said nothing was made, I doubt they'd go back on their word if there was any truth to this source. You won't get a public confirmation with a name rofl. Don't advocate for transparency and confirmation when you won't reveal source, too contradictory It was not Jerith that I heard that amount from. I am just asking. The person that I heard it from could have very well heard it from someone else.. this is why I ask. I really don't have a clue.. but would very much like to find out. Honestly though.. if TL comes out and says "hey.. its non of your business"... then I am more then fine with that answer, because it really is non of our business. However, if the amount is 10K, regardless of what response TL gives.. then I just feel like it is an absurd amount of money and kind of changing the entire 'feel' of this thread and the entire situation. Just my inquiring mind sir.
I think you already know it's really no one's business .I'm not defending them, but to ask blatantly knowing the answer has been said before (no talks of money has been made) is just silly.
My bad on the Jerith thing, he was spouting the same bullshit with a false source.
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On February 24 2012 05:33 LordJerith wrote:
This sums up this WHOLE thread: unwitty meme
Guy adovcates for TL transparency.
Fails to read basic TL rules.
Good one.
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On February 24 2012 05:28 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:11 SpinmovE wrote:
No, that is not what they are saying at all. They are saying that TL is the site to go to if you wish you find starcraft streams which they believe fulfill their vision of growing esports. If you don't agree with it feel free to produce your own website which I'm sure no one will visit. Goodluck! Yeah, because PPV IS KILLING ESPORTS!!! AMIRITE???No really. Get. Fucking. Real. The freemium "free decent quality stream with a few premium features" model is simply unsustainable for MLG especially when they have to top the 2011 Pro Circuit in terms of production, paying for travel/accomodation costs and prize money. There's a reason why MLG are going down the paywall route, and that's because they need to build a sustainable business model. Sure, cash is more important than profits but in reality, if a business never becomes profitable, it's only a matter of time (and the amount of time) until they run out of cash and have to shut down. I cannot comment on MLG's finances but I assume they went PPV so that they could actually break even if not profit from their tournaments, and invest that money into improving their league. Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:11 SpinmovE wrote:
Everyone wants esports to be profitable, but people also want to pay a reasonable price for the viewing experience. Not to mention it's pretty damn hard to get your friends into watching Sc2 when they have to pay to do it. Whatever though, this horse has been beaten far too much and you clearly don't want to entertain any opinions other then your own. And that is why you're a moron. Instead of giving a real argument for TeamLiquid's moderators doing this, you've instead Don't like the MLG Winter Arena price? Then don't fucking pay for it. I just think that it shouldn't be under TeamLiquid's jurisdiction to just refuse to list something on the calendar just because Sundance DiGiovanni and other MLG executives made a serious business decision to put one of their events behind a paywall, to actually make their business model sustainable in the long run. It's a fucking major event and TL are acting high and mighty like they need to pay for a listing just because they put the stream behind a paywall. The way I see it, the calendar is for listing major and minor tournaments, SC2 events and even shows related to SC content. It's not fulfilling its role if Hot_Bid and the other mods are outright refusing to list an event just because it's gone PPV. Especially the case when they have to pay for a venue, plane tickets for all the professional gamers, a production team, for the computers they're gonna have at the venue, the booths, the other equipment, to pay the commentary teams etc, and for a prize pool. Now try sustaining that from a ad supported model with around 80,000 viewers.
Nice, talk like you know shit. Remember that at the moment MLG is the only one crying like a baby that they NEED ppv or Esports is dead. MLG doesn't look like a company with an actual good management plan so I am not really surprised that they don't do good business. But I don't have to care. PPV is not good for exposure since the community is not at that critical mass that you can milk money out of them.
And it's teamliquids right to put who ever they want on the calendar. Period. MLG wants to make money out of PPV, what's in it for TL for advertising their event? Nothing, just for the sake of Esports? gtfo
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On February 24 2012 05:26 disgruntled187 wrote:
Does anyone think the actual Team Liquid Players will get a bad draw or all be teamed up in the same pool again for this?
There are no groups. The brackets have already been made. -_-
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No that sums up you are you're troll friend/alternate account which got banned last page for getting angry that somebody pointed out all the many many flaws in that image.
Stop trolling please.
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If Hotbid has stated that MLG and TL did not reach a discussion on how much it would be..then that I have to believe. Hot bid has been fair, level headed and honest in my dealings with him. There is no confirmation of a 10K amount and for that, I must continue to trust that TL made the right decision here .. for their business model.
Good luck to MLG this weekend and do hope they find a way to stay afloat in this business. For all of my rants against their model and the dealings I have had with their model over the years.. it is good for everyone for them to succeed.
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Just because Hot_Bid said they didnt negotiate a price doesnt mean TL didnt give them a price. MLG could have asked and TL said $10k (if the rumor is true, or whatever other price they charge) and MLG responds no thanks. Thats not negotiating. Thats just inquiring.
This isnt even a big deal, pretty much everyone who would buy the PPV already knows about it.
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first, I feel TL is staying consistant with their lines of community promotion vs advertising. Clearly this event is not a "community event" but a "make money/pay expenses from the community".
Second, even if the advertising fee was 10k, where are all the people that say $20 is nothing? It's about value and 10k is even if it only adds 500 viewers...
Last, if you would see it on the calendar you would have probably seen one of the 20 threads about it.... Including the LR (I expect that to be the best advertising MLG could expect - unless I missed a post regarding no LR).
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Memes? On my TL?
In all seriousness, I think that does sum up the thread.
I still think it's like a television guide website demanding payment from say..... a cable television network like British Sky Broadcasting, just because they posted programme listings and times for their channels, in this case Sky One, Sky Movies, Sky Two, Sky Three, Sky Sports 1, Sky Sports 2, Sky Altantc, Sky One +1 etc.
It's dumb, and demanding that sort of money sorta defeats the purpose of the EVENT CALENDAR.
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On February 24 2012 05:34 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 05:21 csn_JohnClark wrote:On February 24 2012 04:50 Torte de Lini wrote:On February 24 2012 04:46 csn_JohnClark wrote:
So.. this could just be a rumor..but comes from a very reliable source..
The amount requested by TL was 10k????
The only reason I bring this up is because I support TL's decisions, I am against how MLG handled the PPV..but if the 10K is the amount.. then I have to now disagree with TL's decision! That amount of money would be purely a 'money grab' and make what TL did here look very poor.
Can anyone confirm this amount. Any comment from TL? I love what TL is doing here and I agree with their stance on this.. but for 10K..that's absurd.
My God, why do you talk for Jerith? They already said that no talks of money was ever made before this reliable source ever spoke up. It's all now "he said/she said" and since TL already said nothing was made, I doubt they'd go back on their word if there was any truth to this source. You won't get a public confirmation with a name rofl. Don't advocate for transparency and confirmation when you won't reveal source, too contradictory It was not Jerith that I heard that amount from. I am just asking. The person that I heard it from could have very well heard it from someone else.. this is why I ask. I really don't have a clue.. but would very much like to find out. Honestly though.. if TL comes out and says "hey.. its non of your business"... then I am more then fine with that answer, because it really is non of our business. However, if the amount is 10K, regardless of what response TL gives.. then I just feel like it is an absurd amount of money and kind of changing the entire 'feel' of this thread and the entire situation. Just my inquiring mind sir. I think you already know it's really no one's business .I'm not defending them, but to ask blatantly knowing the answer has been said before (no talks of money has been made) is just silly. My bad on the Jerith thing, he was spouting the same bullshit with a false source.
As another poster just pointed out, the answer hasn't necessarily been given already. All that was said was that the negotiating phase wasn't reached.
Not only that, it appears TL has already given out other false information in this thread with their claim that they never listed GSL's AoL on the calendar when it was PPV.
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What's with all these vVv guys going around on TL and mlg site trying to get people to buy these ppv passes and shitting on anyone who doesn't agree with them? How much are they getting out of this deal?
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Why is vvv clan spreading this rumor? Are they mad at TL or what?
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On February 24 2012 05:40 Clbull wrote:Memes? On my TL? In all seriousness, I think that does sum up the thread. I still think it's like a television guide website demanding payment from say..... a cable television network like British Sky Broadcasting, just because they posted programme listings and times for their channels, in this case Sky One, Sky Movies, Sky Two, Sky Three, Sky Sports 1, Sky Sports 2, Sky Altantc, Sky One +1 etc. It's dumb, and demanding that sort of money sorta defeats the purpose of the EVENT CALENDAR.
It's paid for advertising for an event you have to pay to watch. They get enough media attention as is for it (and lack thereof) considering it's a closed doors event even for the media.
Makes perfect sense to me.
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EPT
