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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437262
ObviousOne
Profile Joined April 2012
United States3704 Posts
November 21 2013 12:45 GMT
#581
Basic Vote Count


cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu
Aquanim (3): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneet
Rean (5): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (1): sciberbia
Bereft (1): raynpelikoneet



No one is currently set to be lynched.

12 players alive means 7 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let us know.

Day 1 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)
Fear is the only darkness. ~Destiny Fan Club operator~
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 13:26 GMT
#582
Mocsta what's your opinion of thrawn's post about me?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 13:29 GMT
#583
I am also telling you Rean will not flip scum so good luck with that, i won't be voting for him.
table for two on a tv tray
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
November 21 2013 13:33 GMT
#584
On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:

The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}

The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}

The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}
<3 you man. Pretty much my reads exactly. Though I'd probably move Scib and Onegu up to the green group. Rayn has fallen way down for me from his early game. If I was gonna remove anyone from the reds, Rayne would probably take their place.

The only thing troubling, and I think you touched on this earlier, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a Rean/Cora scumteam. Would need to reread a bunch but I think that can be worried about after the flip.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
November 21 2013 13:51 GMT
#585
On November 21 2013 22:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am also telling you Rean will not flip scum so good luck with that, i won't be voting for him.


Can you do jampidampi?
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 13:56 GMT
#586
On November 21 2013 22:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 22:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am also telling you Rean will not flip scum so good luck with that, i won't be voting for him.


Can you do jampidampi?

I would like to lynch you tbh if you ever claim you know how i play after this post.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 14:01 GMT
#587
wow this days lynch is apparently gonna be shit.
table for two on a tv tray
jampidampi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland386 Posts
November 21 2013 14:02 GMT
#588
Aquanim
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
...

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

First of all, you fail at reading:
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
...

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

Second, you didn't even address the point I hold against you in that post. You basicly admit that it has no other motive than making me look worse.

Aqua is also very conscious about his image:
+ Show Spoiler +

Click on the spoilers.
On November 21 2013 11:15 Aquanim wrote:
...

At present I am explaining exactly what my point of view is: namely, that while Onegu is an acceptable lynch I consider Rean to be a more likely one to flip scum. Lying about my reads for the purposes of being able to jump onto the Onegu wagon right now would not reflect well on me.

...

On November 21 2013 13:11 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 13:04 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:23 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:03 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.


So. Damn. wishy-washy. Flips his stance 3 times over 2 lines. And as Aquanim points out (in another good post), why is Rean complaining about Onegu being an 'easy lynch target' if his posting is 'certainly scummy'? Honestly I think there's a good chance they are both scum.


Sigh....I'm not flipping stances. I have a single stance, and I explained it quite clearly: Onegu's posting is shit and not helping i any way, and it's scummy as fuck but it can also means he's just stupid. Considering multiple possibilities isnt wishy-washy, its called not drawing conclusions too soon.

And the easy lynch target is because I felt and still feel like Aqua is scum and the Onegu thing was a convenient alternative for scum.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it but it feels too convenient for my tastes.

I don't see you "considering multiple possibilities" with regards to my alignment. I know that everything I've done this game has a town motivation, so I'm disturbed that you don't even think that's a possibility.


On November 21 2013 11:56 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
...
Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
...

@Rean
How likely do you think Onegu is to be scum and why? If you think he's likely scum, why are you suspicious of Sciberbia making a case against him?

Also, why do you think that Sciberbia's motives are doubtful for going after someone already mentioned? AFAIK the people who haven't been "mentioned" so far are either obvtown or so lurky there is no case to be made against them.


If it wasn't for the timing of it all, I'd say very likely. His posts are bad and not contributing anything meaningful at all, throwing around scumreads while not doing anything at all with them.
I'm suspicious of Sciberbia in case Scib is scum trying to get the heat off you and decided Onegu was an easy target with how he was posting and Mocsta already going after him.

Do you have any reason to believe this explanation is more likely than Sciberbia believing I'm town and looking for an actual scum wagon to run? By your own admission Onegu is quite scummy.


I think it's weird he's been doing the same thing over and over: joining in on starting bandwagons. And if people are so lurky you can't say anything about them they should be pressured, not ignored.

I think you're misrepresenting Sciberbia's play here. Sure he is expressing suspicions on a player who has previously been suspected. What you've left out is:

1) Most people in the game have been suspected at some point. Once again, who could Sciberbia think is scum who doesn't fit this criteria?
2) It's hardly like Sciberbia was sheeping Mocsta - in fact, Mocsta was voting for me at the time, and Sciberbia did most of the legwork in actually writing up a case and putting down a vote.

If you're town I honestly don't know how you believe this about Sciberbia's play.


1. I did consider multiple possibilities but the more I thought about it the more you being scum made sense to me over you being town, and rereading only reconfirmed it for me.
2. Yes, my suspicions of you along with not really liking Sciberbia's play make me prefer lynching you over Onegu despite his scumminess.
3. It just feels off. Mocsta starts suspecting Onegu while still voting for you, and in comes Scib with a case to take the heat of you and switch it to Onegu. But maybe I'm trying too hard to make everything fit with my suspicions of you...

So you "thought about it" and that convinced you I was scum? I'd like to hear some more specifics about that. What exactly in your rereading confirmed my alignment in your view?

+ Show Spoiler +
It is my view that holding players accountable for their stated opinions and requiring evidence is an important part of maintaining a productive town atmosphere.


On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
...

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


...


Still happy with my vote on Aqua.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
November 21 2013 14:08 GMT
#589
On November 21 2013 22:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 22:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am also telling you Rean will not flip scum so good luck with that, i won't be voting for him.


Can you do jampidampi?


Nice to know you don't want to talk about your scum bud
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
jampidampi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland386 Posts
November 21 2013 14:09 GMT
#590
Rean
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
...

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

That is like saying Scarlett is bad when compared to Jaedong. Doesn't explain how "held back" is the phrase that came to your mind when thinking about Sciberbias early play.

Hasn't scumhunted very much.

Might consolidate onto him.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 14:13 GMT
#591
So about evey player in this game is suspicious about Onegu, except for Bereft. sciberbia makes a case on Onegu. Everyone says Onegu is a really good lynch. Bereft comes in and instead of filtering his scumreads he stops at 2/3, and votes for Rean (yes, he never filtered Aqua at all and that is bullshit). Instead of filtering Aqua he filters Onegu, his townread, picks up some random posts and "yes, Onegu is town". Again bullshit.

Then Mocsta defends Onegu on "suicidal behavior". Guess what Onegu did in ##'s game when he replaced in as scum? He did a fucking case on a confirmed townie and marv & Koshi insta-lynched him. After that everyone seems to be having a town read on Onegu. Suddenly also everyone seems to be having a some sort of scumread on me based on bullshit like "rayn didn't answer Mocsta when Mocsta asks are Rean & Aquanim bussing each other". lolololol. 10 fucking hours into the game when there are like 2 votes casted. Why the fuck wouldi care about it at that point? thrawn can't read me for shit or he is scum, leaning on latter.

Bereft is probably scum for his bullshit entrance and over-defensiveness when i called him scum. I dunno, Mocsta is probably just Mocsta and i don't really care about him now (hint thrawn: i never care about 90% what Mocsta says on D1 because as either alignment he can say wtf he wants).

So yeah, i am gonna vote for Onegu or Bereft. Aquanim could be town, but Rean is a mislynch. Go for it if you want but i am gonna lynch thrawn on D2 if you lynch Rean because thrawn is spewing bullshit and he knows better than this.

Vote stands on Bereft, will be swithching to Onegu, not onto anyone else.
table for two on a tv tray
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
November 21 2013 14:13 GMT
#592
Jampi, what do you think of Rean?
jampidampi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland386 Posts
November 21 2013 14:15 GMT
#593
On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean?

Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua.
jampidampi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland386 Posts
November 21 2013 14:16 GMT
#594
On November 21 2013 23:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
...

So yeah, i am gonna vote for Onegu or Bereft. Aquanim could be town, but Rean is a mislynch. Go for it if you want but i am gonna lynch thrawn on D2 if you lynch Rean because thrawn is spewing bullshit and he knows better than this.

Vote stands on Bereft, will be swithching to Onegu, not onto anyone else.

Could you provide some reasonings for this?
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 14:17 GMT
#595
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.
table for two on a tv tray
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
November 21 2013 14:18 GMT
#596
On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean?

Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua.
So I take that to mean that if it's clear that aqua isn't gonna get lynched then you'd be happy to move your vote to Rean so we can get a majority?
jampidampi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland386 Posts
November 21 2013 14:19 GMT
#597
On November 21 2013 23:18 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean?

Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua.
So I take that to mean that if it's clear that aqua isn't gonna get lynched then you'd be happy to move your vote to Rean so we can get a majority?

Yes
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 14:21 GMT
#598
I would vote for Aquanim over Rean anyday but i don't think he is scum either. Unless thrawn is town, in which case he should swithc his vote on Aqua/Bereft/Onegu right now because those are the scummiest people in thread.
table for two on a tv tray
jampidampi
Profile Joined December 2011
Finland386 Posts
November 21 2013 14:21 GMT
#599
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.

How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 21 2013 14:24 GMT
#600
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.

How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.

Because townies don't have to make shit up. I am not saying it makes him town but it makes him more town than a guy who makes shit up intead of admitting they were wrong.
table for two on a tv tray
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