EPTi honestly can't comprehend why you continue to express yourself in such a bias, whining, anti blizz and self important fashion every time you're playing horribly or cannot figure out how to use units correctly. its been annoying me for years.
[D] Widow Mine Mechanics - Page 3
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
i honestly can't comprehend why you continue to express yourself in such a bias, whining, anti blizz and self important fashion every time you're playing horribly or cannot figure out how to use units correctly. its been annoying me for years. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On March 18 2013 12:35 deth wrote: Its your own fault for not expressing yourself clearly at all, making broad untrue statements and then continuing to try and take some sort of high ground when called out for being wrong i honestly can't comprehend why you continue to express yourself in such a bias, whining, anti blizz and self important fashion every time you're playing horribly or cannot figure out how to use units correctly. its been annoying me for years. Ur mood doesnt correspond well with the above statement  | ||
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Thienan567
United States670 Posts
Anyway. Widow mines do seem a tad random, or should I say a bit wonky in their controls. Zelniq mentioned a 2 second time window where there's a target but the mine will not fire. Maybe if blizz reduces it to 1 sec it would 'respond better' and seem less random. Or widen the radius a bit. Tbh it seemed as random as it did in life vs flash because life's lings were so fast. I do remember a game on daybreak where life ran over some planted mines and they only managed to catch the last couple of lings, other times the mines wrecked his mutas. Speed does seem to enter the equation. So I'd declare for now that tanks are still best anti ling aoe because it's hitscan. also, about the 'hold position' micro. Does anyone know if it works like lurkers did in bw? | ||
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TheSwagger
United States92 Posts
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TheSwagger
United States92 Posts
Zelniq, if you have the ability, Maybe update the thread title to "[D][G] Widow Mine Mechanics"? | ||
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bakemono
11 Posts
I think you are expecting too much for such a cheap unit. Life just played very well, you can't expect him to lose all his lings to 1 widow mine. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On March 18 2013 13:34 bakemono wrote: Guys - A widow mine costs the same as ONE baneling, 50 for a pair of lings, and 25/25 for the baneling, it does a lot more damage, has a lot more HP, can attack air and ground, and can be used repeatedly. I think you are expecting too much for such a cheap unit. Life just played very well, you can't expect him to lose all his lings to 1 widow mine. for the record, it costs 4 times the supply of a baneling. | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
This is a useful micro trick from what I've seen. I think it will only be worthwhile to use this for small numbers of widow mines in engagements, because it's difficult to spread your attacks to different targets within two in-game seconds, and more than two or three widow mines triggering on a single unit would be inefficient. I was worried widow mines would have no micro potential excepting positioning and burrowing them. I hope the manual targeting capability stays in the game, it allows widow mines to scale with better micro. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
they lock onto a target. first one who enter within 5 range OR best unit (which is basically the closest unit to the widow mine) once they lock into a target it begins channeling for 1.5 seconds (ingame) if the unit leaves the 5 range, dies or player manually switches target during the channeling period - the widow mine repeats the process so this is why mines sometimes dont attack, sometimes kill terran and sometimes kill zerg so lets say you run in with zerglings against marines and a widow mine. the widow mine locks onto the first zergling who enters. if the zergling dies to marines, it changes target and has to wait another 1.5 sek, if that ling dies to marines it changes target etc. so it appears not to be attacking at all. if the zergling runs past the widow mine, behind the marines for example it switches target as well (the target has to be within 5 range the entire lockdown process) as terran so in a fight, you basically as terran ideally want to switch targets between the zerglings until the banelings enter range and then you target the bane and let the mines be. second option is to stay with the marines, burst down as many lings as you can, and hopefully (and probably) you will kill all zerglings which were targetted automatically by the widow mines before they finish channeling and then banelings enter and you target the mines onto the banes as zerg as a zerg player, you know that your first zerglings will be targetted, so use your frontal line in move command behind the terran army and attack with the rest of your zerglings normally. if you do this just right (and terran doesnt) the mines will all fire on your lings that are behind his bio army and kill everything he got widow mines appear random at the first glance of it. but the more you play around with them the more you realize how much you (as terran or zerg) can manipulate them and make them do exactly what you want them to. its not a user friendly unit at all because of how it can completely backfire using widow mines where as a siege tank you know will do a certain amount of damage. things like this is really beautiful and what is making bw a very different game from sc2. in bw there were tons of "OP" units that crushed your opponent or did close to nothing or killed yourself where as in sc2 its much more predictable whats expected of a unit because the complexity of it its not very deep i think the widow mines are slightly too strong right now. but if your a zerg reading this i hope it helped abit how to make the widow mines turn against the terran instead of raping everything you got | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:15 MorroW wrote: how widow mine works they lock onto a target. first one who enter within 5 range OR best unit (which is basically the closest unit to the widow mine) once they lock into a target it begins channeling for 1.5 seconds (ingame) if the unit leaves the 5 range, dies or player manually switches target during the channeling period - the widow mine repeats the process so this is why mines sometimes dont attack, sometimes kill terran and sometimes kill zerg so lets say you run in with zerglings against marines and a widow mine. the widow mine locks onto the first zergling who enters. if the zergling dies to marines, it changes target and has to wait another 1.5 sek, if that ling dies to marines it changes target etc. so it appears not to be attacking at all. if the zergling runs past the widow mine, behind the marines for example it switches target as well (the target has to be within 5 range the entire lockdown process) as terran so in a fight, you basically as terran ideally want to switch targets between the zerglings until the banelings enter range and then you target the bane and let the mines be. second option is to stay with the marines, burst down as many lings as you can, and hopefully (and probably) you will kill all zerglings which were targetted automatically by the widow mines before they finish channeling and then banelings enter and you target the mines onto the banes as zerg as a zerg player, you know that your first zerglings will be targetted, so use your frontal line in move command behind the terran army and attack with the rest of your zerglings normally. if you do this just right (and terran doesnt) the mines will all fire on your lings that are behind his bio army and kill everything he got widow mines appear random at the first glance of it. but the more you play around with them the more you realize how much you (as terran or zerg) can manipulate them and make them do exactly what you want them to. its not a user friendly unit at all because of how it can completely backfire using widow mines where as a siege tank you know will do a certain amount of damage. things like this is really beautiful and what is making bw a very different game from sc2. in bw there were tons of "OP" units that crushed your opponent or did close to nothing or killed yourself where as in sc2 its much more predictable whats expected of a unit because the complexity of it its not very deep i think the widow mines are slightly too strong right now. but if your a zerg reading this i hope it helped abit how to make the widow mines turn against the terran instead of raping everything you got Whats your opinion about unitcomposition? Like, i see many proterrans play widowmine/marine/medivac. On MLG too with some succes. Do u think (against Z in particular) it's better to mix tanks and widowmines or play widowmines only? It feels for me the 125 splashdamage is pretty cool, but the cooldown is what is makes the composition weaker in mid and late game. Still i see proterrans sticking with there composition. Which could state im wrong. What do u think? | ||
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Swordland
232 Posts
Still cannot believe the Friendly Fire though.....Tanks does FF....WM does FF.....banelings dont and colossi dont... Removing FF from WM would be a pretty good step IMO. | ||
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rice_devOurer
United States773 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:15 MorroW wrote: how widow mine works they lock onto a target. first one who enter within 5 range OR best unit (which is basically the closest unit to the widow mine) once they lock into a target it begins channeling for 1.5 seconds (ingame) if the unit leaves the 5 range, dies or player manually switches target during the channeling period - the widow mine repeats the process so this is why mines sometimes dont attack, sometimes kill terran and sometimes kill zerg so lets say you run in with zerglings against marines and a widow mine. the widow mine locks onto the first zergling who enters. if the zergling dies to marines, it changes target and has to wait another 1.5 sek, if that ling dies to marines it changes target etc. so it appears not to be attacking at all. if the zergling runs past the widow mine, behind the marines for example it switches target as well (the target has to be within 5 range the entire lockdown process) as terran so in a fight, you basically as terran ideally want to switch targets between the zerglings until the banelings enter range and then you target the bane and let the mines be. second option is to stay with the marines, burst down as many lings as you can, and hopefully (and probably) you will kill all zerglings which were targetted automatically by the widow mines before they finish channeling and then banelings enter and you target the mines onto the banes as zerg as a zerg player, you know that your first zerglings will be targetted, so use your frontal line in move command behind the terran army and attack with the rest of your zerglings normally. if you do this just right (and terran doesnt) the mines will all fire on your lings that are behind his bio army and kill everything he got widow mines appear random at the first glance of it. but the more you play around with them the more you realize how much you (as terran or zerg) can manipulate them and make them do exactly what you want them to. its not a user friendly unit at all because of how it can completely backfire using widow mines where as a siege tank you know will do a certain amount of damage. things like this is really beautiful and what is making bw a very different game from sc2. in bw there were tons of "OP" units that crushed your opponent or did close to nothing or killed yourself where as in sc2 its much more predictable whats expected of a unit because the complexity of it its not very deep i think the widow mines are slightly too strong right now. but if your a zerg reading this i hope it helped abit how to make the widow mines turn against the terran instead of raping everything you got So its like the spidermines in bw, as in mine dragging, map control, and blowing things up?? | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:32 Swordland wrote: I tried focus firing with WM but it didnt work...but yes, WM i think is too random. Still cannot believe the Friendly Fire though.....Tanks does FF....WM does FF.....banelings dont and colossi dont... Removing FF from WM would be a pretty good step IMO. I think if banelings did friendly fire they'd be the most useless unit in the game | ||
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Shift91
Sweden40 Posts
TL;DR mines are fucking awesome! | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On March 18 2013 12:29 avilo wrote: Nice ad hominem, lots of people specialize more in ad hominems lately than they do in analysis because it's easier for them. Point i was making that flew over your head was that in the beta you previously could use the attack command to manually target widow mines onto units, whereas in the current release version that is no longer possible. What zelniq is saying is entirely different. He is saying you can target the widow mines with a right click command onto units which is completely unintuitive for any player that played the beta version with the previous attack command that was on the command card and the current incarnation of the mine that has no option available in the command card. How is a player supposed to know that they can re-target the widow mine manually by constantly changing attack targets with the mine over and over within a 2 second time-span? No one knew this before, and there also is no tool-tip for it. So deth if you want to go argue about arguments and improve your ad hominem take it to reddit, they take that quite seriously over there. There's a differentiation between the ability for a player to use the attack-move command and for something that does not show that in the command card yet it's still possible with a weird rule on it that no one knows about. you wanna know why everyone ends up making ad hominem attacks on you? its because you're legitly, genuinely, dumb. im not saying that as an insult or anything. you just don't think well. so you keep saying things that are untrue and missing points that are very clearly made. so people get frustrated and tell you to fuck off. its been a pattern since the start of sc2. you're slow but even you should get it by now. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Reki
Philippines89 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:32 Swordland wrote: Removing FF from WM would be a pretty good step IMO. Oh hell no. You would get a retarded composition of just tanks and repairing scvs while spamming missile turrets that will autowin vs all races including night elf. | ||
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
Here's a video from the replay: The lings run around a corner, each one coming into range of mines #2 and #3, but each one never stays in range long enough for the mines to fire. When I watched the replay from the zerg's viewpoint, he could see the mines flickering in and out but never firing a shot. I've never seen a mechanic like this in an RTS game, and I've never seen widow mines do this in the many streamed games I've watched. Stuff like this definitely adds to the randomness... I'd be in favor of having them fire instantly at units in range, but have the shot travel slightly slower maybe. | ||
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Malgrif
Canada1095 Posts
you wanna know why everyone ends up making ad hominem attacks on you? its because you're legitly, genuinely, dumb. im not saying that as an insult or anything. you just don't think well. so you keep saying things that are untrue and missing points that are very clearly made. so people get frustrated and tell you to fuck off. its been a pattern since the start of sc2. you're slow but even you should get it by now. | ||
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Reki
Philippines89 Posts
On March 18 2013 15:44 Chocobo wrote: Widow mines definitely seem really random to me. I had game earlier where some lings ran right past my widow mines, I was certain it was a bug. At a glance it seems consistent with morrow's description. Every single ling that passed through didn't stay long enough for it's "channeling" complete. IMO it's working as intended. Otherwise you would get results like multiple wms overkilling a single ling or accidentally losing your entire bio army because a roach tunneled under you. | ||
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