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Also, it was saved in a word file. I had it the whole time, just wanted to hold onto it awhile.
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Wait the lynch is in like 4h 40 minutes
Kitaman don't you care who gets lynched? Why is your focus on the game with an actual deadline?
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
I still don't see what the problem is with lynching redFF at this point. He's never gonna get shot by the mafia if he's town just to make us sad, will get RBed or *And I think this is the case* he's just mafia and punched out this tracker claim since he's out of breathing room and will claim RB.
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On February 23 2012 02:12 syllogism wrote:
No, stop saying we have to lynch someone at some point, that is not true unless he is scum. It is also not true that "no matter what" red is going to tell us it not going to improve the situation as he could for instance give us a "red" result, even if that is unlikely as scum most likely have a roleblocker. Why are you so against lynching BC? Did his reads in L impress you or where did you get the idea? Have his contributions impressed here so far?
no his contribution has not impressed me at all this game. I also thought he was mafia in L because he did very little early on or at least did the wrong things (imo) because he was talking about this mason thing way to much d1 and completly ignored scumhunting d1 back then. I liked what he did in GMs 80-player game although it was a little wishy-washy to get to the new guys as well.
He's one of the few guys that mafia want dead early on really badly if he really is town because they know he's good.
If we're wrong on him we're giving mafia a couple of free KP they can use somewhere else because they probably would doublestack him to get rid of him instead of "just" mislynching. Same about you.
I'd say it's to risky to lynch into people like that d1 for those reasons.
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Because if he is town, as seems likely, we are lynching town? Not being shot by mafia is fine as presumably he will be posting more and make himself look towny to everyone else. Further, the roleblocker will eventually die.
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"The wagon formed too fast" is not really an adequate rebuttal to the entire case that redFF is scum. I doubt he will come to defend himself, hasn't he ragequit the game because WBG called him bad? I'd expect there is resistance, but if scum plays that badly town can overwhelm the mafia resistance and in this case if I'm scum I'd be looking for an alternative lynch to push.
@Dirkzor
This is very troubling:
I find it highly unlikely that RedFF is scum.
followed by
At the same time we can't just keep RedFF around because he claimed a blue role.
If you find it highly unlikely a player is scum, you shouldn't talk about lynching them or encouraging DT's and Vig's to possibly hit him. Your case on BH is fair though. I'm in the process of second guessing myself a lot because of how uncomfortable I feel about VisceraEyes right now. I don't understand VE's meta at all but I don't need to at the moment. I let him slip by Day 1 on Arkham City and I always make the same mistakes that lets this kind of thing happen, I lack confidence.
Hopefully BC responds adequately to the pressure, but for the moment I'm pretty uncertain. Considering the time I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides redFF will be lynched. If he is indeed the tracker, it doesn't give us really much to work with considering the ease and size of the bandwagon.
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Also, what DrH. said should put added to my post as well.
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On February 22 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 23:34 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 21:59 syllogism wrote:
As I noted earlier, I do not think it's likely that the setup has a scum tracker but no town tracker. Therefore the town tracker can just counter claim him, but I doubt that's going to happen as it's more likely that he is our town tracker. These are assumptions, but reasonable and likely ones. Anyway, I don't think he is town because of his claim, but due to other aforementioned evidence and rationale. What if there are 2 separate scum factions Syllo? Palmar states that multiple factions are a possibility in the OP. I am not convinced red is town. A townie redFF would never call me a good scum hunter. He has made a point of telling me and others how much I suck at this game in the past. I can't reconcile this- On February 22 2012 07:09 redFF wrote:what, jackal said he thought toad was scum, i think jackal is a good scumhunter, i have similar thoughts, i post why i think toad is scum, jackal says he never thought toad was scum, i call him a wily old fox. - with a townie redFF. OP says there are 4 mafia, so that's not a possibility
I don't see how that precludes the possibility.
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On February 23 2012 02:22 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 22 2012 11:44 Jitsu wrote:
I wouldn't roll with a BC lynch at the moment. He pretty much said exactly what I was thinking with the "role does not equal alignment." There is no defined set-up information, and it could be plausible that a tracker type would be on the mafia side. No?
Dirkzor
Cool case, brah. Would it be ok to say that chaoser is a red read to you, then? If not, who then?
He made one okay point therefore we shouldn't lynch him? I agree with it too. That doesn't mean anything really. BC is way better than this. He's playing negatively, passively, he's criticizing others for not contributing past the PL discussion but offers nothing to the thread himself. Yeah, RedFF could be faking it and the fact that he hasn't said a role name yet makes me suspect but I feel way stronger about BC with that last post of his now. The fact that I had the same idea is less about me agreeing with it and more about having the same train of thought. Did you read L? Everyone was making the same case about him in L, saying how he was causing more chaos then good, especially with revealing his role. Not comfortable with lynching him at this point. I could get down with a Dirkzor lynch. - non-committal early on, staying out of the spotlight for the most part. - says that chaoser is curious because he is "flippy floppy" - Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 18:44 Dirkzor wrote:
RedFF's fast unvote of Tyrran was weird after he had pushed and defended his policy lynch so much.
Kita's vote on (policy?) Tyrran while attacking Toad for defending Tyrran while attacking RedFF for his history regarding policy lynches and then unvoting Tyrran to vote RedFF is weird. Don't know what I should think about it. I like that you can argue with someone while still having the same opinion but this just looks way to double sided.
I see no scummyness from Chaoser's town read on VE. Other people have done similarly things in this game. But chaoser as a whole is a bit flip floppy... This post makes just about zero sense to me. It's more of the same, with a bit of confusion as well. If I wanted to post something to make it look like a contribution, this would be it. - says he can't wrap his head around this game, then two posts later, claims chaoser as his primary scumread, and adds a [weak] case about how chaoser is scum. - doesn't even vote for chaoser, even though it's his target. Something is up. ##vote Dirkzor
No, I'm completely unfamiliar with BC's meta other than a game I played with him as scum too long ago to remember. That game was a perfect victory for us too.
Dirkzor has made some alarming posts but also some solid points against other players, I want to hear how he responds to criticism before I consider lynching him because I may just be misunderstanding or misreading him.
On February 23 2012 02:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I still don't see what the problem is with lynching redFF at this point. He's never gonna get shot by the mafia if he's town just to make us sad, will get RBed or *And I think this is the case* he's just mafia and punched out this tracker claim since he's out of breathing room and will claim RB.
So you sheep all game and then say it's okay to lynch town just because "mafia won't shoot him" night 1? How do you know what the mafia will do? WIFOM galore and lynching town is not okay.
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On February 23 2012 02:12 syllogism wrote:
No, stop saying we have to lynch someone at some point, that is not true unless he is scum. It is also not true that "no matter what" red is going to tell us it not going to improve the situation as he could for instance give us a "red" result, even if that is unlikely as scum most likely have a roleblocker. Why are you so against lynching BC? Did his reads in L impress you or where did you get the idea? Have his contributions impressed here so far?
You realize he claimed tracker and not parity cop, right? There is no red result. There is just X visited Y last night.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
What you think redFF should live? I can't see him being anything but a liability going forwards. I guess my question for you is, "do we want to assume the mafia is retarded" and if so, then yes maybe they will shoot redFF n1. On the other hand it's possible they're not, and, hey, nobody who plays mafia here is that insanely dumb. What do you know
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On February 23 2012 02:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote:On February 22 2012 23:34 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 21:59 syllogism wrote:
As I noted earlier, I do not think it's likely that the setup has a scum tracker but no town tracker. Therefore the town tracker can just counter claim him, but I doubt that's going to happen as it's more likely that he is our town tracker. These are assumptions, but reasonable and likely ones. Anyway, I don't think he is town because of his claim, but due to other aforementioned evidence and rationale. What if there are 2 separate scum factions Syllo? Palmar states that multiple factions are a possibility in the OP. I am not convinced red is town. A townie redFF would never call me a good scum hunter. He has made a point of telling me and others how much I suck at this game in the past. I can't reconcile this- On February 22 2012 07:09 redFF wrote:what, jackal said he thought toad was scum, i think jackal is a good scumhunter, i have similar thoughts, i post why i think toad is scum, jackal says he never thought toad was scum, i call him a wily old fox. - with a townie redFF. OP says there are 4 mafia, so that's not a possibility I don't see how that precludes the possibility.
If I remember right the wording was kind of funny, but the other faction was supposed to refer to the possibility of a serial killer. The odds of two scum factions with two players each is really low, it would be near impossible for them to win.
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On February 23 2012 02:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 02:22 Jitsu wrote:On February 22 2012 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 22 2012 11:44 Jitsu wrote:
I wouldn't roll with a BC lynch at the moment. He pretty much said exactly what I was thinking with the "role does not equal alignment." There is no defined set-up information, and it could be plausible that a tracker type would be on the mafia side. No?
Dirkzor
Cool case, brah. Would it be ok to say that chaoser is a red read to you, then? If not, who then?
He made one okay point therefore we shouldn't lynch him? I agree with it too. That doesn't mean anything really. BC is way better than this. He's playing negatively, passively, he's criticizing others for not contributing past the PL discussion but offers nothing to the thread himself. Yeah, RedFF could be faking it and the fact that he hasn't said a role name yet makes me suspect but I feel way stronger about BC with that last post of his now. The fact that I had the same idea is less about me agreeing with it and more about having the same train of thought. Did you read L? Everyone was making the same case about him in L, saying how he was causing more chaos then good, especially with revealing his role. Not comfortable with lynching him at this point. I could get down with a Dirkzor lynch. - non-committal early on, staying out of the spotlight for the most part. - says that chaoser is curious because he is "flippy floppy" - On February 21 2012 18:44 Dirkzor wrote:
RedFF's fast unvote of Tyrran was weird after he had pushed and defended his policy lynch so much.
Kita's vote on (policy?) Tyrran while attacking Toad for defending Tyrran while attacking RedFF for his history regarding policy lynches and then unvoting Tyrran to vote RedFF is weird. Don't know what I should think about it. I like that you can argue with someone while still having the same opinion but this just looks way to double sided.
I see no scummyness from Chaoser's town read on VE. Other people have done similarly things in this game. But chaoser as a whole is a bit flip floppy... This post makes just about zero sense to me. It's more of the same, with a bit of confusion as well. If I wanted to post something to make it look like a contribution, this would be it. - says he can't wrap his head around this game, then two posts later, claims chaoser as his primary scumread, and adds a [weak] case about how chaoser is scum. - doesn't even vote for chaoser, even though it's his target. Something is up. ##vote Dirkzor No, I'm completely unfamiliar with BC's meta other than a game I played with him as scum too long ago to remember. That game was a perfect victory for us too. Dirkzor has made some alarming posts but also some solid points against other players, I want to hear how he responds to criticism before I consider lynching him because I may just be misunderstanding or misreading him. Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 02:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I still don't see what the problem is with lynching redFF at this point. He's never gonna get shot by the mafia if he's town just to make us sad, will get RBed or *And I think this is the case* he's just mafia and punched out this tracker claim since he's out of breathing room and will claim RB. So you sheep all game and then say it's okay to lynch town just because "mafia won't shoot him" night 1? How do you know what the mafia will do? WIFOM galore and lynching town is not okay.
K, I know you are smarter than this or at the very least functionally literate, so I'm going to give you around 20 minutes to read the last 3 pages of the thread and realize why this isn't some dumb wifom shit, its an obvious end result of RedFF's dipshit scummy claim.
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prplhz looks pretty awful. He doesn't really have many opinions of his own, asks a lot of questions and his posts are constructed in a way that makes it look like he is just filling space. He appears certain that redff isn't mafia, but also thinks he has to be lynched at some point. Just look at this post
Okay I don't think that redFF is scum because he's been pretty out there. The scummiest he has done in my opinion is his claim which was oddly timed. Right now he's a terribly easy lynch, because we'll have to lynch him at some point. I'd like to see wherebugsgo explain how everything redFF has done can be explained by scum motivation and can not be explained by town motivation. The worst thing about this whole redFF thing is that the lynch is so easy that everybody can just pile onto him and then the day is kinda ruined, we aren't going to find anybody else. I don't think that redFF is scum because he's just been putting himself too much in the line of fire.
A lot of things are suspicious about this post, but just to name one he asserts that redff is an easy lynch and thus we "aren't going to find anybody else". That is complete nonsense and just seems filler. Him randomly assigning blame on wbg seems off too. He thinks redff is not scum, but hasn't even tried to find anyone else. The only thing he has going for him is his attack on bc, but considering he is just sheeping me and not pushing at all, that doesn't mean much. He hasn't bothered to post today and he has definitely been around but doesn't seem to care.
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Since apparently the votes for BC aren't going to be there, how about we lynch prplhz instead
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On February 23 2012 02:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 02:31 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote:On February 22 2012 23:34 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 21:59 syllogism wrote:
As I noted earlier, I do not think it's likely that the setup has a scum tracker but no town tracker. Therefore the town tracker can just counter claim him, but I doubt that's going to happen as it's more likely that he is our town tracker. These are assumptions, but reasonable and likely ones. Anyway, I don't think he is town because of his claim, but due to other aforementioned evidence and rationale. What if there are 2 separate scum factions Syllo? Palmar states that multiple factions are a possibility in the OP. I am not convinced red is town. A townie redFF would never call me a good scum hunter. He has made a point of telling me and others how much I suck at this game in the past. I can't reconcile this- On February 22 2012 07:09 redFF wrote:what, jackal said he thought toad was scum, i think jackal is a good scumhunter, i have similar thoughts, i post why i think toad is scum, jackal says he never thought toad was scum, i call him a wily old fox. - with a townie redFF. OP says there are 4 mafia, so that's not a possibility I don't see how that precludes the possibility. If I remember right the wording was kind of funny, but the other faction was supposed to refer to the possibility of a serial killer. The odds of two scum factions with two players each is really low, it would be near impossible for them to win.
On February 19 2012 21:05 Palmar wrote:Game specific rules and notes: The SetupThis is a closed normal setup. There are however variations of roles that can be considered non-normal. Thus you should treat this game as something of a borderline themed/normal. The distinction is somewhat hard to make, so just keep it in mind as you enter the game. It has no explicit themes. It’s only the roles that make the game somewhat unusual. There may be more than 2 factions in the game. This is a hard setup. It's not forgiving for any faction. Mistakes, disinterest and general incompetence can lead to a quick victory for either side. The game might even feel unbalanced if one side screws up too hard. But trust me that we've gone through like 10 iterations to get this right. This is a hard setup. I will be expecting everyone to play to their win condition and participate in the game as they best see fit.
Sounds like he tried to make near impossible for any body to win.
If redFF rage quit as it appears why are we discussing him anyways. We should be looking at other possibilities.
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On February 23 2012 02:43 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 02:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 23 2012 02:22 Jitsu wrote:On February 22 2012 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 22 2012 11:44 Jitsu wrote:
I wouldn't roll with a BC lynch at the moment. He pretty much said exactly what I was thinking with the "role does not equal alignment." There is no defined set-up information, and it could be plausible that a tracker type would be on the mafia side. No?
Dirkzor
Cool case, brah. Would it be ok to say that chaoser is a red read to you, then? If not, who then?
He made one okay point therefore we shouldn't lynch him? I agree with it too. That doesn't mean anything really. BC is way better than this. He's playing negatively, passively, he's criticizing others for not contributing past the PL discussion but offers nothing to the thread himself. Yeah, RedFF could be faking it and the fact that he hasn't said a role name yet makes me suspect but I feel way stronger about BC with that last post of his now. The fact that I had the same idea is less about me agreeing with it and more about having the same train of thought. Did you read L? Everyone was making the same case about him in L, saying how he was causing more chaos then good, especially with revealing his role. Not comfortable with lynching him at this point. I could get down with a Dirkzor lynch. - non-committal early on, staying out of the spotlight for the most part. - says that chaoser is curious because he is "flippy floppy" - On February 21 2012 18:44 Dirkzor wrote:
RedFF's fast unvote of Tyrran was weird after he had pushed and defended his policy lynch so much.
Kita's vote on (policy?) Tyrran while attacking Toad for defending Tyrran while attacking RedFF for his history regarding policy lynches and then unvoting Tyrran to vote RedFF is weird. Don't know what I should think about it. I like that you can argue with someone while still having the same opinion but this just looks way to double sided.
I see no scummyness from Chaoser's town read on VE. Other people have done similarly things in this game. But chaoser as a whole is a bit flip floppy... This post makes just about zero sense to me. It's more of the same, with a bit of confusion as well. If I wanted to post something to make it look like a contribution, this would be it. - says he can't wrap his head around this game, then two posts later, claims chaoser as his primary scumread, and adds a [weak] case about how chaoser is scum. - doesn't even vote for chaoser, even though it's his target. Something is up. ##vote Dirkzor No, I'm completely unfamiliar with BC's meta other than a game I played with him as scum too long ago to remember. That game was a perfect victory for us too. Dirkzor has made some alarming posts but also some solid points against other players, I want to hear how he responds to criticism before I consider lynching him because I may just be misunderstanding or misreading him. On February 23 2012 02:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I still don't see what the problem is with lynching redFF at this point. He's never gonna get shot by the mafia if he's town just to make us sad, will get RBed or *And I think this is the case* he's just mafia and punched out this tracker claim since he's out of breathing room and will claim RB. So you sheep all game and then say it's okay to lynch town just because "mafia won't shoot him" night 1? How do you know what the mafia will do? WIFOM galore and lynching town is not okay. K, I know you are smarter than this or at the very least functionally literate, so I'm going to give you around 20 minutes to read the last 3 pages of the thread and realize why this isn't some dumb wifom shit, its an obvious end result of RedFF's dipshit scummy claim.
It is WIFOM. I agree scum would probably not shoot redFF if he is town AND survives Day 1 considering he's distracting and an easy lynch target, but I don't agree that it's alright to lynch town. redFF's claim is stupid and I'm not sold on it considering he didn't even say a name with it and just dipped out immediately. They should roleblock him but I just don't like making arguments or lynches based on predicting what the mafia will do. I can think of countless times I've been scum and we've concocted to do the opposite of what town would expect, even make bad shots just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions and even if what he said is likely correct, it is not helpful.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
Man prplhz do you have little squares in you that hold maple syrup because I see you waffling.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:49 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 02:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 23 2012 02:31 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote:On February 22 2012 23:34 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 21:59 syllogism wrote:
As I noted earlier, I do not think it's likely that the setup has a scum tracker but no town tracker. Therefore the town tracker can just counter claim him, but I doubt that's going to happen as it's more likely that he is our town tracker. These are assumptions, but reasonable and likely ones. Anyway, I don't think he is town because of his claim, but due to other aforementioned evidence and rationale. What if there are 2 separate scum factions Syllo? Palmar states that multiple factions are a possibility in the OP. I am not convinced red is town. A townie redFF would never call me a good scum hunter. He has made a point of telling me and others how much I suck at this game in the past. I can't reconcile this- On February 22 2012 07:09 redFF wrote:what, jackal said he thought toad was scum, i think jackal is a good scumhunter, i have similar thoughts, i post why i think toad is scum, jackal says he never thought toad was scum, i call him a wily old fox. - with a townie redFF. OP says there are 4 mafia, so that's not a possibility I don't see how that precludes the possibility. If I remember right the wording was kind of funny, but the other faction was supposed to refer to the possibility of a serial killer. The odds of two scum factions with two players each is really low, it would be near impossible for them to win. Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 21:05 Palmar wrote:Game specific rules and notes: The SetupThis is a closed normal setup. There are however variations of roles that can be considered non-normal. Thus you should treat this game as something of a borderline themed/normal. The distinction is somewhat hard to make, so just keep it in mind as you enter the game. It has no explicit themes. It’s only the roles that make the game somewhat unusual. There may be more than 2 factions in the game. This is a hard setup. It's not forgiving for any faction. Mistakes, disinterest and general incompetence can lead to a quick victory for either side. The game might even feel unbalanced if one side screws up too hard. But trust me that we've gone through like 10 iterations to get this right. This is a hard setup. I will be expecting everyone to play to their win condition and participate in the game as they best see fit. Sounds like he tried to make near impossible for any body to win. If redFF rage quit as it appears why are we discussing him anyways. We should be looking at other possibilities.
This is a fair point. I like Tyrran and Prplhz for lynches today.
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EPT
