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On March 18 2012 02:00 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 01:52 Nisani201 wrote:
Ok jj is sane and so far he has been making the most sense out of anyone. Blue lightz your vote against Sinani is stupid. I'll probably end up voting drazerk for lynch, but for now I'm gonna wait to see if there are better options.
Also can someone please explain why valineth is a good choice for wheatley? Apparently because he "understands this whole thing" or something like that. That's complete and utter bullshit. Don't elect Velinath. I think our best option is to elect Blazinghand and kill Velinath.
Kill me? Why?
If we can find a better candidate, I'm willing to throw my support behind them, but honestly I feel I make a fairly good candidate here. I've already said I'm willing to be completely transparent when it comes to abilities that the Wheatley office receives.
I'm not a third party or scum. I'm town aligned. Why would you want to lynch me day 1?
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Good morning, everyone.
I think Drazerk is lying out of his teeth to keep us distracted. His claim details make no sense at all, especially the way he did it. He claims to have been the Balrog all along, but only claimed the name after his supposed win con change, ie the change from a decidedly non-Balrog wincon (benevolent survivor) to the exact Balrog wincon, plus the item clause. Something here just doesn't add up, especially when combined with his earlier shot/Velinath buddying/item grab declaration/Velinath disowning. If he, as he says, wants us to hunt scum and not third party, then his behavior certainly doesn't support that.
Let's suppose that his initial win condition is to survive until the end with the town, but then he shoots randomly into VisceraEyes (unless now he wants to claim that he used his supposed day-DT item on him, which would further contradict his earlier statements). Why would a benevolent survivor do that? Surely a town vigilante would pick his or her targets more carefully, and Drazerk claims that he isn't compulsive, so that argument doesn't hold, either. If his wincon now is to kill Gandalf, then I have no reason to think that Drazerk is town-aligned.
##Vote: Drazerk
Additionally, I would like to reaffirm that I'm just as qualified to be Wheatley as any other player here, in that I've promised complete transparency and cooperation. I find the fact that no one even mentions me as a candidate to be rather bizarre.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
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The standards for OMGUS are so low, it's hilarious. All you have to do is the accuse the other player first, and then everything they say against you is automatically OMGUS.
Attack my posts or my behavior, don't just default to that worthless line of defense.
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Drazerk, if I understood correctly, you'd be allowing the town to use your power shot (though you can't discuss the conditions to use it) and gain your 5 items through these kills, while hoping for someone to shoot Gandalf by chance. But if you can't talk about the conditions, how are we gonna pick a target for you? Also, why claim that your objective is to accumulate 5 items? Wouldn't that just be painting a target on your back for no purpose at all?
If you could, I'd like to understand why Velinath went from being a good pick for Wheately when your win condition was "win with town" to a bad pick when your win condition turned into "other stuff". If anything, this makes Velinath sound like a good candidate.
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I am for lynching Drazerk, if he's really Balrog and his win-condition is to kill Gandalf, then he won't hesitate from killing townies.
And if he lies about being Balrog, then he is scum.
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MG, I think you make some good points as far as what Drazerk's actual alignment is. However, I do believe that he had the Balrog role name, at the very least, from the beginning based on kill flavor.
Even given that, however, I agree that his motivations for an early shot and wincon changes are a little shady. I guess the big emphasis here is that we can't take Drazerk's claim of third party at face value.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Ok, this is turned from a remotely decent option for a Day 1 lynch to one of the biggest bandwagons in TL history
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OK Vel, you're definitely town. Just wanted to see how you would react.
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but i stil dont think we should kill drazerk
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I think this Drazerk thing is distracting us too much.
I'll just ask this to Drazerk, and hopefully nothing more so we can continue trying to hunt scum:
-Can you tell us your EXACT process of thought in every action you've taken?
As in, what you were thinking when you shot VE, what you were thinking when you chose to elect Velinath, what you were thinking when you decided to post that you wanted items, etc. Explain those inconsistencies found in your posts
-How exactly does your day-shot work? Will you let us control your shot on D2-D3 and so on? If your role can't do that, state the exact reasons for doing so, and state EVERY restriction your role has.
-If you want to live, I suggest you let town control the use of your DT item
-What item did you use on Wiggles? Explain that thoroughly, and explain your thought process as well (which relates to the 1st point). For instance, why did you choose to use it on Wiggles?
If you don't give us ALL the info we want, stop cloggin up the thread, stop confusing town, and let us control your shots/items, then you should die.
If you DO everything of the above, I think we could give you the useless items (like those lemons people are talking about) every once in a while, like a treat.
You do know that if you don't do everything we tell you to, we lynch you right? You will have to hope scum kill Gandalf for you, and that you behave well enough to receive the useless items.
I agree with ghost here. We should look for a scum lynch right now, and only lynch Drazerk if that lynch won't be consolidated.
I'd prefer a 3rd party (possibly scum) lynch rather than a NL or a last minute vote-switch towards a townie.
On March 17 2012 22:36 Jayjay54 wrote:
Right now, I am not sure if gonzaw is just bad or actively uses wrong arguements to mislead town.
I doubt I can "mislead town" just by 1 post.
When I look at certain actions, I don't try to look them as "scummy" or "unreasonable".
Those are traits of a bad townie as well, and I don't want lynching bad townies.
I thought Drazerk was a bad townie at first, because of all the crazy shit he did and how much attention he got.
Therefore I didn't want the discussion to be about him.
Although I know what some of you vets can do when you are scum/anti-town if you want to disrupt town, but I've seen A LOT of games where townies have done the exact same thing, even fake-claiming.
On March 18 2012 01:39 Bluelightz wrote:
Alright, before I go I will place my lynch vote on sinani206!
First, he has been lurking.
Second, because that sinani looks very suspicous later on, it might distract us later in the game.
##Vote: sinani206
Wtf?
So what do you think about the posts sinani already made?
Also Blue, can you tell me (and link me preferably) to any game you've been scum in the past?
Blue, I find you are not posting "town lists", or doing that general trolling of yours when you are town.
I don't like your one-liners where you don't say anything, or you ask completely irrelevant stuff, like this:
On March 17 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 10:49 Kenpachi wrote:
hi guys. i had an awesome day outside eating Korean BBQ and playing Billiard with my friends (birthday boy)
gonna go read the thread now.
btw im Kenpachi and im Townie Its tempting to believe this because Kenpachi does this every game :O, any thoughts?
On March 18 2012 01:47 Bluelightz wrote:
I agree with you JJ, picking a person to be Wheatley is mind boggling =_=, Its tempting to say that its ability will help town but the possiblity of Wheatley turning bad x[, Or we could just have a vig shoot Wheatley if Wheatley will turn bad, Any opinions on my idea?
Bluelightz, can you please explain your behaviour?
@Paperscraps: I hope you come back before the day ends, now that Dirk posted. Why were you absent previously? You live in the States, so your time zone is not that different from mine. However perhaps you were indeed sleeping (for instance), and I'd like to know if that's true or not.
@Midnight: Who else do you think is scum? What do you think about Wiggles and Kenpachi?
@zelblade, Cwave, Dirk, Grack, JayJay, ghost, Hassy, Nisani, Maverick, Sburbbles: Do you have thoughts on other players that are not Drazerk? Scum reads?
@blub, Razorflash, Adam, Lanaia, Wiggles, Velinath: I expect more contributions from you as well, I want your thoughts on the Drazerk issue (post that only once, don't let the thread get misscarried), and your thoughts on who you think could be another scum.
@sinani: Why exactly do you think Zephird is scum?
@Zephird: What do you think about other players other than Drazerk//sinani?
@Blazinghand: I want your reads as well, don't go lurking on me now.
@Velinath: Do you have any scum reads by now? Any other specific thoughts?
Kitaman, CC, vaderseven and Foolishness are completely AWOL. If they are town, we need their contributions as soon as possible.
Yeah, this "list" may seem useless, but I really want all these players answering these questions. I don't want anybody lurking, and want them answering these questions and I'll keep tabs of who does and who doesn't.
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kk. im going to hand you my item Drazerk, in return, you must vote GLaDOS everyday you are alive (in case we dont get majority day 1).
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On March 18 2012 03:15 sinani206 wrote:
but i stil dont think we should kill drazerk
Why not? What makes him confirmed town to you?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Drazerk is certainly playing the fool
Do not elect him! That would be uncool,
Velinath is a good choice
and from it we will rejoice
Cause Drazerk will use us like tools
##Elect: Velinath
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On March 18 2012 03:17 Kenpachi wrote:
kk. im going to hand you my item Drazerk, in return, you must vote GLaDOS everyday you are alive (in case we dont get majority day 1).
Great, I forgot about you.
Kenpachi, can you tell us ANYTHING that doens't have to do with GLaDOS?
Let's imagine you are a townie. You can still get people to vote GLaDOS on D2, D3, etc, right?
Right now you need to establish your innocence, so people may listen to you later and vote for GLaDOS on D2, D3, etc.
So what are your other reads? Do you think anybody else is scum?
On March 18 2012 03:17 sinani206 wrote:
I don't anymore
Why did you think so initially, and why don't you think so now?
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@gonzaw I have a non town read on Kenpachi because he's been pushing this "vote GLaDOS" agenda so hard without giving any real justification other than "it gives me a superpower". He's even trying to manipulate Drazerk into going along with it - he even says he isn't necessarily going to get a majority day 1, which I think really shows the lack of faith that the town has in him in addition to his dedication to posting a personal agenda even against the general sentiment (so far) of the thread.
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On March 17 2012 22:12 Drazerk wrote:
I claim balrog
I have to get 5 items to win the game and kill Gandalf When my win condition is met I leave the game.
Old win condition was to just survive to the end with town only
My attack is unblockable but I cannot discuss the limitations attached to it while my DT item can be used twice a cycle at day and night but it will only tell me if they are like me.
There are three other people like me and I am certain that vel is one of them especially since he knew the name of my role ( I know the names of the other roles so I am presuming they do as well )
I also presume I am going to die anyhow so bring it on Gandalf I have a bomb ready and waiting.
So did you not end up realizing that you're a third party who's playing a multi-player assassin game, or what? Your claim makes things a lot easier for town, though.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Assassin_in_the_Palace
You say there are three other people like you, so that implies that there's 3 other third parties we have to kill, or that there's three other people trying to kill Gandalf. Either way, thanks for the info.
On March 18 2012 00:20 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 00:18 Bluelightz wrote:On March 17 2012 23:31 Hassybaby wrote:
Ok, I think we've discussed Drazerk enough. He's either tellign the truth, and we can decide how we can use the information later, or he's lying, and we can ill him later. Either way, we should not waste a lynch on him. Lynches are for scum, not third party
Lets focus back on the elections. While I think Velinath and BH are good candidates, I would be ok with the likes of jayjay or zelblade there as well. There was good info that came out of that discussion, and I think the guys in it are most likely town. I Disagree Hassy, third parties are still a threat to town and should be elimenated. I agree, but I don't think a lynch should be used. I'd like to leave that for night vigs and shizzle
On March 17 2012 22:33 Drazerk wrote:
Hunt scum not third party. You gain nothing from my death.
This is wrong. This is a game where we are not sure what roles are present, or how much KP we are facing. For all we know, the entire town can blow up by the end of day 2. Drazerk has already shown that he is chaotic, first with his kill, and then with his inconsistent claims. Anyone who thinks we can actually control his shots isn't thinking very far ahead. First, there's the likely possibility he doesn't listen to us, if he thinks he has a shot at Gandalf, and there's the possibility that if he gets any KP items he will use them to shoot into his Gandalf targets. Secondly, we don't want to have him shoot every day, unless there's some way to actually have a near-confirmed scum target. Our goal as town right now, should be to remove as much anti-town KP from the game as we can, since as the game goes longer our chances at winning increase, should enough townies survive. Third, one of the strengths of town vigi's is the ability to make independent KP choices where scum can't actually change the outcome. If we direct him in the thread, scum can easily influence where the KP goes, especially using some kind of vote system. However, if we don't use a vote system, Draz can just choose a target raised that he thinks is likely to be Gandalf, and just shoot him, claiming that he followed the thread's direction.
As well, look at how Day 1 has turned out so far. Near the entirety of the day has been spent talking about a third party, and his role. If we leave him in the game, the same thing is going to happen every day. He is a third-party, not town aligned, and his win condition isn't parallel to ours. He holds anti-town KP, and wants to hold many of our items. Scum won't give him any items, so any that he receives will come from town, taking them from our hands, and giving them to a third party. Don't give him any items, we're lynching him.
##Vote: Drazerk
On March 18 2012 01:23 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 01:13 ghost_403 wrote:
Drazerk never had to claim. Clearly, he didn't think that he was a threat to the town, at least for the time being. Focusing on lynching him out of the game right now is counterproductive. Today, we need to be more concerned about electing a Wheatly and finding a good lynch, rather than focus on some neutered third party.
##elect velinath because he seems to understand this. he have claimed just because of that. if you believe him, then his wincon has changed. so he might have thought he was no threat for town THEN. If we find a better lynch, I am fine with moving on. However, this lynch is at worst a third party lynch. We won't lose a townie. Before we randomly lynch a player, lynching drazerk is by far the better option. And that doesn't even take into account that there's a fair chance he's lying. I still think we should give Wheatley to one of the newer players (mav, david or whatever), since they might not be as good in abusing OP powers, yet (no offense, bros! seriously!). That is, if they're willing to be transparent and to let town guide their actions. If they get insane, it will be probably easier for town to recognize it, while vet-players will annihilate town.
This is fallacious reasoning. Trying to give Wheatley to a weaker player because they can't abuse it, doesn't really work, except in the case that the person is independent third-party, if sleeper cells work the same way as normal. If the person is scum, then his scum-buddies can direct him with how to use it. If he's a cell member, there's probably a cell leader who can send him a message to direct him in his action use, like in the sleeper cell games. Choosing a weak player doesn't mitigate against scum getting the role. Instead, it's much better to just choose a player we think is likely to be town, whether or not they're new or inexperienced or not, and help direct them in their role.
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@gonzaw:
Kenpachi's also been scattering the town's concentration with his glados voting and the nonsensical party with blazinghand. I don't like that at all, but I take it that this is what he usually does, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he doesn't actually start contributing soon, or continues to attempt to derail, then that could quickly change.
Wiggles is making decent sense to me, but I wish he'd read a bit more carefully. He's already slipped up once in terms of comprehension (thinking Drazerk had given an item instead of using it). His latest analysis is solid.
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EPT
