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Hashbaz
United States340 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:34 Elairec wrote: hurry someone pirate the mp3 to soundcloud so I can listen to some shit while I work 3rds >.< It's not pirating. Wheat has given his permission. MP3 is uploading now. | ||
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Elairec
United States410 Posts
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Hnnngg
United States1101 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:35 TotalBiscuit wrote: And this is the entire point isn't it, that word "implied". It's not what I ACTUALLY said that upset anyone, no it's what they decided to read into it, which was a pretty dumb thing to do. The shit I've gotten from EG fanbois as a result of ITG indicated that not a SINGLE ONE of them had actually listened to the Real Talk episode or even understood the point I was trying to make. So yes, OTT, from everyone concerned. Would hardly be the first time. This is why we can't have nice things, why even get to the real meat of the matter when we can just get all upset and fling insults around aye? It's easier than actually tackling the problems the foreigner scene currently has. Yep, all these problems currently in the form of dollar bills. There's a reason constructive criticism is the only good kind of criticism, you yourself a proponent of that. But then you turn around and don't give any and just point out the "problems". Get some consistency. On June 27 2012 11:44 OptimusYale wrote: About the whole EG house not as effective for training purposes.... EG has it right, and is getting huge sponsorships all over the place, where as the korean house which is just 'practice' are failing due to getting no sponsors. I'd rather have a mediocre practice schedule with security then busting my balls 12 hours a day with no security. The security is probably what draws koreans to western teams | ||
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PardonYou
United States1360 Posts
On June 27 2012 10:38 howLiN wrote: About showing team sponsors, what if they would show them while presenting the players, like in an overlay GSL style? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RQ4tJ.jpg) I like it. Not too intrusive. Idra actually made good points on how to help TvZ, I wish more Terrans would think like this. I always like to hear his honest, non-rage talk about the game. Very intelligent. | ||
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Hashbaz
United States340 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:47 Elairec wrote: I know its not pirating =p Well okay then. I just want to make sure that everyone knows Wheat is cool with this. I wouldn't do it otherwise. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:35 TotalBiscuit wrote: And this is the entire point isn't it, that word "implied". It's not what I ACTUALLY said that upset anyone, no it's what they decided to read into it, which was a pretty dumb thing to do. The shit I've gotten from EG fanbois as a result of ITG indicated that not a SINGLE ONE of them had actually listened to the Real Talk episode or even understood the point I was trying to make. So yes, OTT, from everyone concerned. Would hardly be the first time. This is why we can't have nice things, why even get to the real meat of the matter when we can just get all upset and fling insults around aye? It's easier than actually tackling the problems the foreigner scene currently has. You said foreigners don't work hard enough, and then you used EG as a specific example, going as far as to call it a "frat house." That's an insult, or at the very least a stern calling-out. What were we supposed to think when you said that, that you were calling it a frat house because people in fraternities are known for all buckling down together and studying for ten hours a day? Apologize for being out of line, stand by what you said, or just stay quiet. Don't try to go back on what you said and tell us we're stupid and wrong and misinformed for calling you out on it. edit: and yes I do understand what you were saying about foreigners generally not practicing as much, and that you were using EG as an example. you worded it too strongly, and that's what offended Geoff and IdrA. they even went as far as to say that you had a lot of valid points and were just off on the specific criticism of the Lair. it's really ironic that you're calling people out for not understanding what you said when you clearly didn't understand what iNcontroL and IdrA were saying. | ||
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Hashbaz
United States340 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On June 27 2012 10:38 howLiN wrote: About showing team sponsors, what if they would show them while presenting the players, like in an overlay GSL style? the eg version would just fill up the screen | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote: the eg version would just fill up the screen I realize you're joking, but they could easily do something where the logos being presented changes every 30 seconds or so to reduce clutter, that way there'd only be 1-2 logos on screen at a time. The image that was linked was kind of cluttery to begin with. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote: the eg version would just fill up the screen Could easily limit it. And in fact it would probably be heavily limited. It's a nice thing to do to plug the sponsors of a team of your sponsored event, but if you see Liquid's sponsors as much as your own, then the sponsorship won't go to events but teams. But if it's only player introductions that's fine imo. Especially in non-live events where ads on jerseys can't be shown. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:57 corpuscle wrote: You said foreigners don't work hard enough, and then you used EG as a specific example, going as far as to call it a "frat house." That's an insult, or at the very least a stern calling-out. What were we supposed to think when you said that, that you were calling it a frat house because people in fraternities are known for all buckling down together and studying for ten hours a day? Apologize for being out of line, stand by what you said, or just stay quiet. Don't try to go back on what you said and tell us we're stupid and wrong and misinformed for calling you out on it. edit: and yes I do understand what you were saying about foreigners generally not practicing as much, and that you were using EG as an example. you worded it too strongly, and that's what offended Geoff and IdrA. they even went as far as to say that you had a lot of valid points and were just off on the specific criticism of the Lair. it's really ironic that you're calling people out for not understanding what you said when you clearly didn't understand what iNcontroL and IdrA were saying. You clearly don't understand what I said at all, did you even listen to it? There's so little point in wasting time arguing with community forum-heroes when they twist your words. Here is the entire statement with the time-stamp. If it doesn't work, it starts 47 minutes in, feel free to actually watch it, comprehend it, then come back to me. Try doing all of those things before you make any demands of me If you need me to transcribe it for you so you can actually understand it, by all means let me know. It's not about "working hard enough", it's about working right. It's about working the way the Koreans do. The formula to their success is in the way they train. Foreigners are not training that way and as a result, most of them bar the few that flourish under different conditions are not doing as well as they could be. The very notion that the occupants of the EG lair are working as hard and in the same way as the Koreans just isn't the case. Don't tell me that, don't try and pretend it's the case, it's not. The evidence is right there in the livestreams. They DO NOT practice in the same way as the Koreans do, that is a fact. Is it a criticism? No more than it is of any other foreign team, the point is that EG has the most resources of any foreign team and the potential to be the first to really "do it right". The point was NOT foreigners not practicing as much, you can practice 16 hours a day and still suck. It was the way in which foreigners are practicing which is not up to par with the Korean scene. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:03 Hashbaz wrote: Episode 45 mp3 is up: Soundcloud: http://snd.sc/MtogUd Torrent: http://db.tt/ctHlYH0T Direct download courtesy of Frosthaze: PENDING reddit: http://redd.it/vnzbz edit: stand by, people. The audio seems to have been chopped at 2 hours. You the man! Were a few parts I would love to listen to again, was another good episode. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I know you hate to hear this but to be frank the koreans have the korean ladder. They don't have this glorious training regimen you referenced where they design days around singular strategies and hammer it out to rocky montage music for 12 hours straight. They ladder. They ladder and they play about 25% customs and each week they have a ranking league within the house to inject some competition but also determine 5 man squads for GSTL, IPLTAC, EGMCS etc.. You took your opinion, as a man who carries a lot of weight in the community with your fan base and projected an ignorant message that koreans have some magical training regimen that can be copied by foreigners but simply isn't because they are too lazy and their leading team house is a "frat house" (which you continue to ignore how that is insulting). Turns out they have access to the best league on the planet on a monthly basis which breeds more competitive play/motivation and they get to train on the best ladder on the planet with no latency. When they do decide to custom they are training vs players that would rank in the top 3 of any region outside of korea. | ||
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andReslic
216 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:44 OptimusYale wrote: About the whole EG house not as effective for training purposes.... EG has it right, and is getting huge sponsorships all over the place, where as the korean house which is just 'practice' are failing due to getting no sponsors. I'd rather have a mediocre practice schedule with security then busting my balls 12 hours a day with no security. The security is probably what draws koreans to western teams lol, if the player is good enough he can find another team, your post doesnt make sense tbh | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
If you need me to transcribe it for you so you can actually understand it, by all means let me know. It's not about "working hard enough", it's about working right. It's about working the way the Koreans do. The formula to their success is in the way they train. Foreigners are not training that way and as a result, most of them bar the few that flourish under different conditions are not doing as well as they could be. The very notion that the occupants of the EG lair are working as hard and in the same way as the Koreans just isn't the case. Don't tell me that, don't try and pretend it's the case, it's not. The evidence is right there in the livestreams. They DO NOT practice in the same way as the Koreans do, that is a fact. Is it a criticism? No more than it is of any other foreign team, the point is that EG has the most resources of any foreign team and the potential to be the first to really "do it right". The point was NOT foreigners not practicing as much, you can practice 16 hours a day and still suck. It was the way in which foreigners are practicing which is not up to par with the Korean scene. You missed my and Geoff/Greg's point(s) entirely, once again. You are absolutely right that foreigners don't train as hard and/or in the same way as Koreans, literally everybody agrees with you. The issue is that you called out EG in a way that was too strongly worded at best, and poorly informed and insulting at worst. Here's what you said, verbatim: "I'm gonna level a criticism at EG here: you've got a big-ass house, you have more money than any other team in the scene, and yet your house is essentially a frat house, not a training house, and it is showing in your results." If you can't see why it's insulting to say that their house is a frat house, which nearly everybody rightfully interprets as saying that they sit around chilling and having fun instead of working hard, I really don't know what to tell you. You easily could have said something like "if you look at the EG house, they don't have a rigorous practice schedule, they spend a lot of time doing media stuff, they don't have a proper coach, and a lot of their best players are overseas. They aren't using their resources in a way that positions them to be competitive with the Koreans." Not only would saying something like that be (mostly) true, it's also not offensive. Hell, even if you just posted something in this thread saying "I'm sorry, let me clarify what I meant, I didn't mean to call EG unprofessional, I was three hours into an in-depth interview and I phrased it in a way that was misleading and distracted from the point I was trying to make," I can almost guarantee anyone with half a brain would forgive you. Instead, your response is... well, read your own posts, man. Yes, some of the people you've been replying to are pants-backwards retarded, but not all of us. | ||
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Random_Guy09
Canada1010 Posts
On June 27 2012 11:44 OptimusYale wrote: About the whole EG house not as effective for training purposes.... EG has it right, and is getting huge sponsorships all over the place, where as the korean house which is just 'practice' are failing due to getting no sponsors. I'd rather have a mediocre practice schedule with security then busting my balls 12 hours a day with no security. The security is probably what draws koreans to western teams It's been stated by players multiple times that Koreans are looking for western teams so they have access to more foreign tournaments instead of being in Korea and playing in GSL (after they've had their experience with it). Everytime they have to fly for a hell of a long day just to get to the tournament (and its probably not cheap either) and then have to deal with jetlag most of the time. If they join a foreign team its not as hard as you'd just have to either fly to Europe or just fly around the States to get to tournaments and not be stuck with as much jetlag. | ||
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andReslic
216 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:43 Random_Guy09 wrote: It's been stated by players multiple times that Koreans are looking for western teams so they have access to more foreign tournaments instead of being in Korea and playing in GSL (after they've had their experience with it). Everytime they have to fly for a hell of a long day just to get to the tournament (and its probably not cheap either) and then have to deal with jetlag most of the time. If they join a foreign team its not as hard as you'd just have to either fly to Europe or just fly around the States to get to tournaments and not be stuck with as much jetlag. And foreigners look for a korean team to play in GSL, its kinda funny | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
I am sorry. | ||
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walklightwhat
Australia752 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:53 TotalBiscuit wrote: Alright, point taken. I could and should have phrased it an awful lot better than I should and as a result that detracted from the point I was trying to make. I was also acting on limited information and should not have been so judgmental without knowing more. I have clearly and unfairly singled out EG in a negative fashion, which they did not deserve and although it was not my intention, they were my words and I have to own up to what I said. I am sorry. How is this community supposed to get some Drama when people act all mature and reasonable? How revolting. | ||
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