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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 237

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 18 2012 20:38 GMT
#4721
On May 18 2012 22:30 ThePianoDentist wrote:
what is the time between a zerg starting to mine gas, and getting speedlings?



3 minutes.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
May 18 2012 20:39 GMT
#4722
On May 19 2012 05:38 TheExodus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2012 22:30 ThePianoDentist wrote:
what is the time between a zerg starting to mine gas, and getting speedlings?



3 minutes.

To be exact, it's 3:15 from the time he starts his gas to when speed finishes.
Moderator
AnonymousEmu
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada70 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-19 00:20:23
May 19 2012 00:12 GMT
#4723
How do I deal with terran drops? :O Cannons get 2 shots off and then medivacs unload and kill everything..
What do I do?
whistle
Profile Joined April 2010
United States141 Posts
May 19 2012 00:42 GMT
#4724
Well isn't that THE question... could probably use a replay but here are some general tips:

- In the midgame, put a small group of units in the area you expect a drop to land (usually back of your main, since that's probably the furthest from where your main army is). Depending on what kind of tech you're using, any composition of 5-7 units can work (if going colossus, usually stalkers maybe a sentry or immortal or some zealots instead, if going templar, usually chargelots and an HT).
- If you are responding to the alert that you're under attack, it's usually late. You need vision of drop paths outside your base so that you can respond before the drop actually unloads; if your opponent isn't paying attention, you can get some free units. I personally make three obs (or more) before I start immortal/colossus production which is even easier after the patch, and patrol one obs behind my main where I expect a medivac to approach. You should supplement vision with pylons but those are obviously less flexible in positioning.
- Later in the game, put cannons and a HT at every expansion, and those should either stop the drop or buy you enough time to warp in units/get your army over. Feedback if you can catch the medivacs before they unload, storm if they've dropped their units already.

For me, this was (and still is) the most difficult part of PvT, so don't get too frustrated if you don't magically improve at it overnight.
AnonymousEmu
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada70 Posts
May 19 2012 01:25 GMT
#4725
Ahh alright, thanks a bunch!

On a sorta related note, how do I post a replay?
-eXalt
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States462 Posts
May 19 2012 01:34 GMT
#4726
have a question for any highish master+ protoss players out there, what are your go to macro builds in PvT right now? doubleforge creatorprime style is tough to pull off vs 3 rax medivac builds while the terran gets his 3rd up before yours.

I can't seem to beat high master terrans while I beat high master zergs/protoss pretty easily.. maybe it's just because i have bad HT control against terrans who know how to kite and get mass viking/ghost in time. Also I feel a terran on a map like daybreak who gets maxxed with 3/3, has defensive planetaries and mass orbitals (then sticks to 30 or so scvs for a huge army), has a ton of upgraded vikings and a lot of ghosts, is nearly unbeatable with any composition. Naniwa said the same..

anyway, these are the builds i'm using:
-quick colossus into double forge (all build are after a ST_parting FE). kind of sucks if the terran just stays a base up, gets a high viking count and ghosts in time.
-creatorprime double forge- really hard to pull off while not taking damage vs 3 rax after FE medivac stim aggression. the stim/+1/combatshield marines with medivacs just reck any protoss army that doesn't have colossus, charge/+1armor, etc. doesn't seem to be very popular anymore though.
-ST parting fast 3rd.. again really hard vs that quick medivac build. isn't really a "go to" build either as it only works vs no gas on big maps etc.

replays would be great, thanks. nearly every terran I face right now goes 1 rax fe into 3 rax and quick medivac/+1/stim etc aggression so reps vs that would be great.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-19 01:37:08
May 19 2012 01:34 GMT
#4727
On May 19 2012 10:34 xOny wrote:
have a question for any highish master+ protoss players out there, what are your go to macro builds in PvT right now? doubleforge creatorprime style is tough to pull off vs 3 rax medivac builds while the terran gets his 3rd up before yours.

I can't seem to beat high master terrans while I beat high master zergs/protoss pretty easily.. maybe it's just because i have bad HT control against terrans who know how to kite and get mass viking/ghost in time. Also I feel a terran on a map like daybreak who gets maxxed with 3/3, has defensive planetaries and mass orbitals (then sticks to 30 or so scvs for a huge army), has a ton of upgraded vikings and a lot of ghosts, is nearly unbeatable with any composition. Naniwa said the same..

anyway, these are the builds i'm using:
-quick colossus into double forge (all build are after a ST_parting FE). kind of sucks if the terran just stays a base up, gets a high viking count and ghosts in time.
-creatorprime double forge- really hard to pull off while not taking damage vs 3 rax after FE medivac stim aggression. the stim/+1/combatshield marines with medivacs just reck any protoss army that doesn't have colossus, charge/+1armor, etc. doesn't seem to be very popular anymore though.
-ST parting fast 3rd.. again really hard vs that quick medivac build. isn't really a "go to" build either as it only works vs no gas on big maps etc.

replays would be great, thanks. nearly every terran I face right now goes 1 rax fe into 3 rax and quick medivac/+1/stim etc aggression so reps vs that would be great.


When I scout gasless FE I've opted to go for fast twilight and get fast blink to keep map control, threaten the terran into playing really defensive, then get fast charge after, add a forge get +1 armor, go into templar, then expand.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
May 19 2012 12:32 GMT
#4728
What's the proper response to cannon rush in pvp? Both behind mineral and on the side, I lose far too many games to this.

Also how to deal with midgame drops pvt? Should I always be leaving few units at my main to defend with a ht? Classic thing is them dropping my main and killing my third. T_T

TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 19 2012 12:53 GMT
#4729
On May 19 2012 21:32 Goshawk. wrote:
What's the proper response to cannon rush in pvp? Both behind mineral and on the side, I lose far too many games to this.

Also how to deal with midgame drops pvt? Should I always be leaving few units at my main to defend with a ht? Classic thing is them dropping my main and killing my third. T_T



As soon as you scout they're cannon rushing, drop a forge and cannon yourself in order to deny his pylons/cannons. If you don't have time for that, pull probes to kill his and you'll have time to cannon a bit before he gets a new one there. Then go kill him.

Drops are handled by feedbacking his medivacs and having a few gates idle in order to warp in when you spot a drop. Have spotter pylons and/or observers around the map in order to see them early.
GrassEater
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden417 Posts
May 19 2012 13:29 GMT
#4730
On May 19 2012 10:25 AnonymousEmu wrote:
Ahh alright, thanks a bunch!

On a sorta related note, how do I post a replay?


Use any of the replaysites like http://www.sc2replayed.com/ . There is a lot more, i dont know the best one but this is good enough.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 19 2012 13:42 GMT
#4731
On May 19 2012 22:29 GrassEater wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2012 10:25 AnonymousEmu wrote:
Ahh alright, thanks a bunch!

On a sorta related note, how do I post a replay?


Use any of the replaysites like http://www.sc2replayed.com/ . There is a lot more, i dont know the best one but this is good enough.


drop.sc is generally better.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
-MoOsE-
Profile Joined March 2011
United States236 Posts
May 19 2012 14:25 GMT
#4732
hey here is a replay of me playing a terran. http://drop.sc/183379
I am top 15 masters and he is top 8. The terran goes for a weird 2 rax push w/ stim that hits at 8 min, and I got crushed. I was wondering is there something wrong with my opening? Did I make to many probes or miss wg cycles. Thanks
The King in the North Fighting
Serge89
Profile Joined May 2011
Belgium38 Posts
May 19 2012 22:17 GMT
#4733
Hi ! I'm just watchin MC's PvZ and i'm curious about his double forge play. Do you play double forge with a 3 bases allin or its still viable in a more longer macro game ?
Vathus
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-19 23:29:43
May 19 2012 23:12 GMT
#4734
On May 19 2012 21:32 Goshawk. wrote:
What's the proper response to cannon rush in pvp? Both behind mineral and on the side, I lose far too many games to this.

Also how to deal with midgame drops pvt? Should I always be leaving few units at my main to defend with a ht? Classic thing is them dropping my main and killing my third. T_T



For a low ground to high ground rush you normally scout it right after you start your core. So you need to start a forge asap. Cancel your core and pull probes out of gas. Stop producing probes, and chrono out 2 zealots. Once your forge finishes you need to start spamming cannons. What will usually happen is he will have cannons in range of your stuff just starting as your forge finishes. You need to match that cannon count and use your zealots and some probes to buy time until your defensive cannons finish.

On maps where cannon rushes behind the minerals are strong (i.e shakuras or daybreak) you should put your 2nd pylon behind your minerals. If they manage to get the pylons up though behind your minerals you have to pull probes to kill the pylons and get zealots out asap.

To deal with drops in mid game pvt if you can you should have at least a templar and even 1-2 zealots or a cannon at each base. But also you need to make sure to have a high gateway count in the midgame. In PvT you'll see theres a lot of periods where the protoss stop producing gateway units for a bit and add on a bunch of additional gateways. Usually you go up to 3 gates quickly to get some zealot sentry and then once you have the sentry count you want you add another 2-3 gates before warping any other units in so that you have to production to deal with the initial medivac pressure. You'll eventually want to go up to 6-8 depending on if you went ht or colossus. Once you're able to take your 3rd and are able to defend you want to add on another like 3-4 gateways and eventually go up to like 15+ by the lategame. Also make sure you have 2-3 obs.
schaf
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1326 Posts
May 20 2012 17:44 GMT
#4735
in the code S finals, Squirtle always went gate - 2gas - core and put 2 probes in each gas. Was this build specific (faster gas but OK min/gas ratio) or is it just a good thing to do?
Axiom wins more than it loses. Most viewers don't. - <3 TB
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 20 2012 17:57 GMT
#4736
On May 21 2012 02:44 schaf wrote:
in the code S finals, Squirtle always went gate - 2gas - core and put 2 probes in each gas. Was this build specific (faster gas but OK min/gas ratio) or is it just a good thing to do?


It's a very specific and new variation of 1gate fe.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Shadowslayer
Profile Joined April 2012
United States9 Posts
May 20 2012 20:39 GMT
#4737
When you're FFEing and the zerg evo chamber blocks you, what's the proper response?
The people I asked have said to pylon block their expansion(s), or start cannon rushing if it's already down, or start teching to other things. Is that right? Or is there a better way of dealing with it?
saer
Profile Joined March 2011
40 Posts
May 20 2012 20:50 GMT
#4738
If you mean blocking your nexus placement with an evo, the best way to deal with it in my opinion is just drop your cannon in range of it and make gateway, pylon, and at least one gas. Keep up with your probes and you can get a faster tech, just drop the nexus when the evo dies and make sure not to lose any probe to the broodlings. Also some zergs will try to bust your wall at a timing along with the broodlings so make sure you're safe to that. The most important thing is to not do anything too drastic because of it imo.
Orazio
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand10 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-20 23:03:18
May 20 2012 21:18 GMT
#4739
I've been pondering a question with P v T recently. If I see T gearing up for early expand I always consider the 4gate. But how to counter the mass bunkers at the front of his nat? Why no just run past the bunkers with my 6odd stalkers, snipe his SCV's at nat then run into his main. Don't even bother with the bunkers. Forcing the terran to take his marines out of the bunkers meaning i can straight up fight/micro them with stalkers. Whilst warping in units to my proxy pylon to run in and sac his bunkers at the nat/ Re-inforce my units in his main. I've had some reasonable success going for this strat but don't know if it will be viable in higher leagues. (I'm highish diamond). I don't have any replays because I don't know how to upload. But anyone have any thoughts?

http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)RageQuitter_vs_(P)Orazio/19785 here is a replay
Four gate for days
Vathus
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 01:59:33
May 21 2012 01:52 GMT
#4740
On May 21 2012 06:18 Orazio wrote:
I've been pondering a question with P v T recently. If I see T gearing up for early expand I always consider the 4gate. But how to counter the mass bunkers at the front of his nat? Why no just run past the bunkers with my 6odd stalkers, snipe his SCV's at nat then run into his main. Don't even bother with the bunkers. Forcing the terran to take his marines out of the bunkers meaning i can straight up fight/micro them with stalkers. Whilst warping in units to my proxy pylon to run in and sac his bunkers at the nat/ Re-inforce my units in his main. I've had some reasonable success going for this strat but don't know if it will be viable in higher leagues. (I'm highish diamond). I don't have any replays because I don't know how to upload. But anyone have any thoughts?

http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)RageQuitter_vs_(P)Orazio/19785 here is a replay


It can still work in higher leagues especially on maps like shakuras, entombed, or tal'darim where you can get a proxy pylon on the low ground beside their nat and then you just warp in behind his bunkers or on some maps get a pylon beside their main and warp into their main.

Be careful about trying to run by into the main though because most terrans will wall their ramp off.
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