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On March 04 2012 06:37 ThatGuy89 wrote:
i think if this whole situation was put to the public, but no names were mentioned it would be alot different.
If someone came out and said that the rules 'said' Metalopolis (i put said in speech marks cos the map pool just said metalopolis, and i think everyone would automatically, upon seeing it, think it was a balanced version as opposed to the garbage that blizz made in this case) and then the 2 players (not naming either of them) got into an argument about which version it should be on. At which point it was decided that it would be the imbalanced version, in which case the player who wanted to imba map abused it the best they could.
If you put that to the public, you would have half as many people hating on incontrol as you do now. Unfortunately he just gets alot of hate. Yea maybe he didnt handle it perfectly, but all the people flaming him for are dont have any idea what its like to be in that situation. Where youre 0-3 down in a BO7 against a player far inferior to you (no offence intended) and when you know you'll get alot of stick if you lose. you start a comback and on a pivital game youre gonna have to play on a completely ZvP favoured map, and thats metal as it is, nevermind with the gold in. But i think he was right to complain about it, maybe not so aggresively though.
And i can bet any amount of money that if incontrol somehow managed to end a SHOWMATCH (i put that in caps cos people are always saying that showmatches are about entertainment and fun games) in a way like this becuase he picked an imbalanced map, he'd get so much hate it would probably break the internet
that being said, both players played well and deserve congratulations, shame the same cant be said for the casters/admins
How is Cytoplasm inferior to Incontrol in any way? The dude just 2-0'd Kas among other things, he has really improved and has more recent results than Incontrol.
I get it that you are an Incontrol fan and somehow feel the need to twist the situation into something it isn't, but the truth is that you are not doing anyone any favors. Just stop.
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On March 04 2012 06:37 ThatGuy89 wrote:
i think if this whole situation was put to the public, but no names were mentioned it would be alot different.
If someone came out and said that the rules 'said' Metalopolis (i put said in speech marks cos the map pool just said metalopolis, and i think everyone would automatically, upon seeing it, think it was a balanced version as opposed to the garbage that blizz made in this case) and then the 2 players (not naming either of them) got into an argument about which version it should be on. At which point it was decided that it would be the imbalanced version, in which case the player who wanted to imba map abused it the best they could.
If you put that to the public, you would have half as many people hating on incontrol as you do now. Unfortunately he just gets alot of hate. Yea maybe he didnt handle it perfectly, but all the people flaming him for are dont have any idea what its like to be in that situation. Where youre 0-3 down in a BO7 against a player far inferior to you (no offence intended) and when you know you'll get alot of stick if you lose. you start a comback and on a pivital game youre gonna have to play on a completely ZvP favoured map, and thats metal as it is, nevermind with the gold in. But i think he was right to complain about it, maybe not so aggresively though.
And i can bet any amount of money that if incontrol somehow managed to end a SHOWMATCH (i put that in caps cos people are always saying that showmatches are about entertainment and fun games) in a way like this becuase he picked an imbalanced map, he'd get so much hate it would probably break the internet
that being said, both players played well and deserve congratulations, shame the same cant be said for the casters/admins
Actually I think people would agree that if the rules say original metalopolis and one of the player requests it, then the only blame can really be put on either the hosts or the player who didn't read the map pool in the first place. Also most pro players aren't down 0-3 against a player that is "far inferior to them".
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On March 04 2012 06:37 ThatGuy89 wrote:
i think if this whole situation was put to the public, but no names were mentioned it would be alot different.
If someone came out and said that the rules 'said' Metalopolis (i put said in speech marks cos the map pool just said metalopolis, and i think everyone would automatically, upon seeing it, think it was a balanced version as opposed to the garbage that blizz made in this case) and then the 2 players (not naming either of them) got into an argument about which version it should be on. At which point it was decided that it would be the imbalanced version, in which case the player who wanted to imba map abused it the best they could.
If you put that to the public, you would have half as many people hating on incontrol as you do now. Unfortunately he just gets alot of hate. Yea maybe he didnt handle it perfectly, but all the people flaming him for are dont have any idea what its like to be in that situation. Where youre 0-3 down in a BO7 against a player far inferior to you (no offence intended) and when you know you'll get alot of stick if you lose. you start a comback and on a pivital game youre gonna have to play on a completely ZvP favoured map, and thats metal as it is, nevermind with the gold in. But i think he was right to complain about it, maybe not so aggresively though.
And i can bet any amount of money that if incontrol somehow managed to end a SHOWMATCH (i put that in caps cos people are always saying that showmatches are about entertainment and fun games) in a way like this becuase he picked an imbalanced map, he'd get so much hate it would probably break the internet
that being said, both players played well and deserve congratulations, shame the same cant be said for the casters/admins
A) there is no reason to make that assumption about what version of metal would be played. In fact, given the inclusion of a good number of other ladder maps (including imbalanced ones), it wouldn't be unreasonable to think the other way.
B)IMBA works hard to bring us hours of amazing content. They screwed up once. No need to go bashing them. They are amazing contributors to the scene who deserve tremendous praise for their work
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Dear Community,
Us here at IMBA.tv are aware of the map related issue today between IncontroL and Cytoplasm's games in the Money Talks Season 2 tournament. The map pool was listed as follows:
Map Pool
1. Shakuras Plataeu
2. Metalopolis
3. GSL Antiga Shipyard
4. Tal’Darim Altar
5. Winter BelShir Beach
6. MLG Daybreak
7. Entombed Valley
8. GSL Terminus SE
9. GSL Crevasse
10. The Shattered Temple
11. Xel’Naga Caverns
Now the map in dispute is Metalopolis
This map is the ladder version and is not up to date with current tournament / league regulations / standards (as it does not denote the MLG or GSL version). As we have come to terms with it in the past few week of the KOTH with this map pool we felt we shouldn't change the rules middle of the series as to not cause confusion for players / viewers. So therefore we left it in.
Now to say clear and upfront we whole heartedly apologize for this map not being changed prior to Season 2 starting. We did not expect it would have come down to this but it has so here is our apology.
What are we going to do to fix it?
Well first off we will be redoing a few rules of the KOTH MT Season 3. There will be new maps in the map pool. ** Updated to current versions of widely used tournament maps ** There will also be certain changes to the rules regarding week 4 matches and continuations / postpones. We are avidly looking into making sure that the seasons will continue with fair rules for the players and viewers.
A few of the members of IMBAtv (Addicted {events manager / organizer}, Firesilver {personnel administration / manager}, and mcDuffs {owner / ceo}) contacted IncontroL via skype and apologized for this map oversight in the rules as well as they expressed the changes that we are making to the rules. We have also invited IncontroL to compete in Season 3 of the KOTH and he has agreed to play during next season.
We will not allow this type of mistake to happen again and we are learning from these mistakes to correct them in the future. We only want to put more into the community not take away from it because we are all about the community and about the people who make it happen.
Thanks for reading and we hope for everyone to have gl and ggs!
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On March 04 2012 04:55 Dimon87 wrote:
Guess it aint called imbalanced.tv for nothing, gg's though.
lolz
ImbaTV should stick to what it specializes in: entertaining broadcasts.
issues came up in both seasons 1 and 2 of this month long event regarding rules and maps.
in Season 1 some claim the over all winner had the match given to him by the loser.. because the winner would win a lot more money for the win than the loser would get. So the speculation is the final week loser of season 1 just handed it to him.
in the final KOTH of season 1 the winner had the chance to win like $500 and the guy who eventually lost only had a chance at $100. that is why this behind the scenes agreement was struck and the final weeks matches of season 1 were essentially choreographed.
the rules of this KOTH are convoluted and confusing.
if Imba.tv has extra cash...
i recommend they become the sponsor of an event and let people who specialize in event management and execution do what they do best.
sponsor a CraftCup.. or maybe and SCVRush.com event... or some other event.
Good Try Imba.tv..
your heart is in the right place.. but u guys are pretty disorganized.
User was warned for this post
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On March 04 2012 06:53 imbalanced.tv wrote:
We will not allow this type of mistake to happen again and we are learning from these mistakes to correct them in the future. We only want to put more into the community not take away from it because we are all about the community and about the people who make it happen.
Don't worry too much, people love drama. 
Overall, while it certainly might have been a little unfavorable for Incontrol, it's absurd to blow this thing out of proportion as if Incontrol only lost because of this map. He still lost 4-2 and he certainly had the possibility to win despite the map.
Also, based on his comments in this thread, but also for quite some time, I'm significantly more annoyed by Incontrol's double standards and ongoing overractions to any critical comment while he doesn't hesitate to use clear words himself. Yes, a manner-bear would have accepted the more balanced map, but a cool-headed person also would have accepted the bad map that is in the pool. Deal with it.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 04 2012 07:09 Antithesis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 06:53 imbalanced.tv wrote:
We will not allow this type of mistake to happen again and we are learning from these mistakes to correct them in the future. We only want to put more into the community not take away from it because we are all about the community and about the people who make it happen. Don't worry too much, people love drama. Overall, while it certainly might have been a little unfavorable for Incontrol, it's absurd to blow this thing out of proportion as if Incontrol only lost because of this map. He still lost 4-2 and he certainly had the possibility to win despite the map. Also, based on his comments in this thread, but also for quite some time, I'm significantly more annoyed by Incontrol's double standards and ongoing overractions to any critical comment while he doesn't hesitate to use clear words himself. Yes, a manner-bear would have accepted the more balanced map, but a cool-headed person also would have accepted the bad map that is in the pool. Deal with it.
Is it that english isn't your first language?
I did accept the map. What double standards do you see from me? What overreactions?
In general you should probably just go away..
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On March 04 2012 07:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
ImbaTV should stick to what it specializes in: entertaining broadcasts.
issues came up in both seasons 1 and 2 of this month long event regarding rules and maps.
in Season 1 some claim the over all winner had the match given to him by the loser.. because the winner would win a lot more money for the win than the loser would get. So the speculation is the final week loser of season 1 just handed it to him.
in the final KOTH of season 1 the winner had the chance to win like $500 and the guy who eventually lost only had a chance at $100. that is why this behind the scenes agreement was struck and the final weeks matches of season 1 were essentially choreographed.
the rules of this KOTH are convoluted and confusing.
if Imba.tv has extra cash...
i recommend they become the sponsor of an event and let people who specialize in event management and execution do what they do best.
sponsor a CraftCup.. or maybe and SCVRush.com event... or some other event.
Good Try Imba.tv..
your heart is in the right place.. but u guys are pretty disorganized.
First of all jim... The fights in Season 1 where not by all means handed to him. The community voted on Teamliquid.net in the first place. The community also voted on White-ra playing in each week as he left it up for the people to decide. You must be out of your mind to think otherwise. And no season 1 were essentially choreographed. this is not true by any means at all. Ask the previous players and ask whitera they will tell you the same.
The rules of the koth from season one to seaon 2 did change. Reason being - The main sponsor of the event had started another job and could no longer set up and push forward for season 2. That is why there are differences in the rules / prize pools.
You really have no ground here and it seems your just trying to stir the shit pot. Seriously everyone has to learn from mistakes and Season 2 was a very fun event for all players and all viewers besides this map issue. So by your current state of mind you are saying because we allowed for a certain map into the rules we should give up? Well too bad because we will keep pushing and we will keep putting content forward as we correct our mistakes in the future.
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Overall. Incontrol handled things pretty well... people spazzing about how Incontrol behaved might be angry about something he did in the past and are now just "nit picking" through any slight conflict he has.
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On March 04 2012 07:20 mcduffs wrote:
You really have no ground here and it seems your just trying to stir the shit pot. Seriously everyone has to learn from mistakes and Season 2 was a very fun event for all players and all viewers besides this map issue. So by your current state of mind you are saying because we allowed for a certain map into the rules we should give up? Well too bad because we will keep pushing and we will keep putting content forward as we correct our mistakes in the future.
This is not my theory...
if you read the thread..
its someone else's.
Speculation along this line occurred because player A had the opportunity to win a lot more money than player B.
If 1 player can win like $500 and another player can only win $100 you can see how motives may change.
That's just a badly designed structure.
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On March 04 2012 07:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:20 mcduffs wrote:
You really have no ground here and it seems your just trying to stir the shit pot. Seriously everyone has to learn from mistakes and Season 2 was a very fun event for all players and all viewers besides this map issue. So by your current state of mind you are saying because we allowed for a certain map into the rules we should give up? Well too bad because we will keep pushing and we will keep putting content forward as we correct our mistakes in the future. This is not my theory... if you read the thread.. its someone else's. Speculation along this line occurred because player A had the opportunity to win a lot more money than player B. If 1 player can win like $500 and another player can only win $100 you can see how motives may change. That's just a badly designed structure.
If this structure was so bad wouldn't players say no to playing it?
I could be just crazy but it seems you still have no argument here jim.
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On March 04 2012 07:26 mcduffs wrote:
If this structure was so bad wouldn't players say no to playing it?
I could be just crazy but it seems you still have no argument here jim.
it comes down to hours played versus potential prize money.
if i have a chance to win $X for Y hours of "work"/"play" then I'll take it if X/Y is large enough...
players enter events hoping they are well organized but never really know until they are in the middle of the event if it is well organized... and even if its poorly organized if .. X/Y is high enough they'll follow the money and play any way.
i'm too lazy to dig up the old thread.
but, the guy who thought the Season 1 final week's matches were thrown stated it was because of the large discrepancy in prize money offered to each player. Player A could win 5X more than Player B.
So Player B throws the games and receives a portion of the much larger prize money after the games are over.
In a better designed event:
Player A and Player B should play against each other for the same amount of money.
To prevent the kind of speculation I am discussing.
Let me make an extreme example. You and I are going to have a show match in SC2.
I can win $50,000,0000 and you can win $50.
What do you think the outcome will be?
I'll contact you... we'll agree to let me win.. and I'll send you $10,000 after its over.
That was the speculation with the Season 1 final week..
To prevent this kind of speculation i recommend no discrepancies in prize money for any single game.
Its funny .. here you are attacking me while i recommend a better way to run your season 3.
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On March 04 2012 06:37 ThatGuy89 wrote:
against a player far inferior to you
lol, you cant be serious.
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On March 04 2012 07:15 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:09 Antithesis wrote:On March 04 2012 06:53 imbalanced.tv wrote:
We will not allow this type of mistake to happen again and we are learning from these mistakes to correct them in the future. We only want to put more into the community not take away from it because we are all about the community and about the people who make it happen. Don't worry too much, people love drama. Overall, while it certainly might have been a little unfavorable for Incontrol, it's absurd to blow this thing out of proportion as if Incontrol only lost because of this map. He still lost 4-2 and he certainly had the possibility to win despite the map. Also, based on his comments in this thread, but also for quite some time, I'm significantly more annoyed by Incontrol's double standards and ongoing overractions to any critical comment while he doesn't hesitate to use clear words himself. Yes, a manner-bear would have accepted the more balanced map, but a cool-headed person also would have accepted the bad map that is in the pool. Deal with it. Is it that english isn't your first language? I did accept the map. What double standards do you see from me? What overreactions? In general you should probably just go away..
Wow, I didn't mean to insult you and I also like your casting, but the tone of you answer actually represents what I critized. I write a single sentence about you and you passively flame my language skills (or what did your question aim at?) and you tell me to "just go away". Why so angry?
Examples for overreactions: Instead of writing one clear statement (like Cypo did) you write a bunch of hot headed comments to random posters. That happens regularly after you have a debated appearance in a show. I have no problem with edgy comments, but that's what I refered to with double standards: You have no problem with expressing your oppinion in a very "direct" manner and want other people to accept it, but whenever someone slightly critizises you, you fall into a total defense mode (and tell them to "go away").
However, again, I don't want to flame you and I generally don't care about BM at all, my comment was just an observation. Just think about if maybe you could react a little cooler sometimes...
And also I hope this post pleases your language expectations. If it doesn't, please give me some pointers, I need to work on it.
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On March 04 2012 07:15 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:09 Antithesis wrote:On March 04 2012 06:53 imbalanced.tv wrote:
We will not allow this type of mistake to happen again and we are learning from these mistakes to correct them in the future. We only want to put more into the community not take away from it because we are all about the community and about the people who make it happen. Don't worry too much, people love drama. Overall, while it certainly might have been a little unfavorable for Incontrol, it's absurd to blow this thing out of proportion as if Incontrol only lost because of this map. He still lost 4-2 and he certainly had the possibility to win despite the map. Also, based on his comments in this thread, but also for quite some time, I'm significantly more annoyed by Incontrol's double standards and ongoing overractions to any critical comment while he doesn't hesitate to use clear words himself. Yes, a manner-bear would have accepted the more balanced map, but a cool-headed person also would have accepted the bad map that is in the pool. Deal with it. Is it that english isn't your first language? I did accept the map. What double standards do you see from me? What overreactions? In general you should probably just go away..
He's probably referring to the public persona that you have undoubtedly created for yourself, willingly or not.
The double standard probably being the comments you have said on SotG and other shows when it comes to drama. To me it seems like you preach being the bigger man in situations. Just like IdrA, Sheth and others who have made a "character" for themselves you also have to be prepared for the reactions of the fans when you go outside of what you'd normally do.
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On March 04 2012 07:15 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:09 Antithesis wrote:On March 04 2012 06:53 imbalanced.tv wrote:
We will not allow this type of mistake to happen again and we are learning from these mistakes to correct them in the future. We only want to put more into the community not take away from it because we are all about the community and about the people who make it happen. Don't worry too much, people love drama. Overall, while it certainly might have been a little unfavorable for Incontrol, it's absurd to blow this thing out of proportion as if Incontrol only lost because of this map. He still lost 4-2 and he certainly had the possibility to win despite the map. Also, based on his comments in this thread, but also for quite some time, I'm significantly more annoyed by Incontrol's double standards and ongoing overractions to any critical comment while he doesn't hesitate to use clear words himself. Yes, a manner-bear would have accepted the more balanced map, but a cool-headed person also would have accepted the bad map that is in the pool. Deal with it. Is it that english isn't your first language? I did accept the map. What double standards do you see from me? What overreactions? In general you should probably just go away..
Didn't you threaten to forfeit the last game?
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On March 04 2012 06:37 ThatGuy89 wrote:
i think if this whole situation was put to the public, but no names were mentioned it would be alot different.
If someone came out and said that the rules 'said' Metalopolis (i put said in speech marks cos the map pool just said metalopolis, and i think everyone would automatically, upon seeing it, think it was a balanced version as opposed to the garbage that blizz made in this case) and then the 2 players (not naming either of them) got into an argument about which version it should be on. At which point it was decided that it would be the imbalanced version, in which case the player who wanted to imba map abused it the best they could.
If you put that to the public, you would have half as many people hating on incontrol as you do now. Unfortunately he just gets alot of hate. Yea maybe he didnt handle it perfectly, but all the people flaming him for are dont have any idea what its like to be in that situation. Where youre 0-3 down in a BO7 against a player far inferior to you (no offence intended) and when you know you'll get alot of stick if you lose. you start a comback and on a pivital game youre gonna have to play on a completely ZvP favoured map, and thats metal as it is, nevermind with the gold in. But i think he was right to complain about it, maybe not so aggresively though.
And i can bet any amount of money that if incontrol somehow managed to end a SHOWMATCH (i put that in caps cos people are always saying that showmatches are about entertainment and fun games) in a way like this becuase he picked an imbalanced map, he'd get so much hate it would probably break the internet
that being said, both players played well and deserve congratulations, shame the same cant be said for the casters/admins
Plz tell me you kidding
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I just finished watching the series on VOD as I missed the live broadcast.
I can't fault Cytoplasm for wanting to stick with the map pool. I don't know how much he needs the money/win for his career and he was absolutely following the rules. I do think Incontrol should have let it drop after the referees had made their ruling.
That being said, as a fan, it would have been nice from an entertainment perspective for Cytoplasm to say, "you know what, I beat this guy three times on maps of his choice, I can beat him once more." And allow the MLG version to be substituted. Instead, I got to see what was shaping up to be a nice comeback from Incontrol end with Cytoplasm putting on clinic for why ladder metalopolis is an imbalanced map.
So like I said, I can't say he did anything wrong, but I think it would have been classy (read above and beyond the call and praiseworthy sportsmanship) to let it play out on the MLG map.
Thanks to the organizers for fixing it and offering Incontrol a shot in season three. I hope they are successful in the future. Also it would have been more professional not to be discussing their decision regarding the rules on stream. That was super awkward. I would recommend they try to keep that behind the scenes in the future.
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On March 04 2012 07:15 iNcontroL wrote:
In general you should probably just go away..
:-)
its sad that this very entertaining series went that way in the end,i was looking forward to an 3-3 ,then ace match !
but.... :-/
but i´m glad to hear that geoff will participate in s3 !
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EPT
