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redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:19 GMT
#401
Yeah usually its not good to lynch a claimed blue day 1. If scum it forces them to produce results and stick to a claim and later in the game questions are raised as to why they are not dead yet. So yeah you don't lynch claimed blues day 1. Obviously this isn't in line with wbg's school of mafia thought though.

Yes that's exactly what i expect.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:21 GMT
#402
If pretty much all the major town voices are intent on wagoning me then claiming at 24 hours in and giving us another 24 hours to set up a lynch seems like a pretty good time.

If i claimed with 12 hours left the wagon might have gotten too big and people may have not gotten back in time to unvote.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
February 21 2012 22:21 GMT
#403
On February 22 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
...but first of all, get the sand out of your crotch and stop thinking everything's a conspiracy to make you confused.

On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
...and yes, I'm going back on everything I said earlier.


wat?



about redFF.

he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective.

Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable.

Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do?


It's certainly something I'd expect bad town to do, sure. Plus he's claimed other powers which I'd expect given Palmar has made it clear that this is a hard setup. Are you of the opinion that he's lying scum and has received some kind of "safeclaim" or something?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
February 21 2012 22:22 GMT
#404
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.

Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue.

But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth.

So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:23 GMT
#405
Explain how everything I've done has scum motivations wbg.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:25 GMT
#406
On February 22 2012 07:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.

Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue.

But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth.

So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment.

heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me.


I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1?
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
February 21 2012 22:27 GMT
#407
On February 22 2012 07:25 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.

Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue.

But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth.

So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment.

heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me.


I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1?

If you are town it shouldn't be hard to show that and get us to back off on the right track. Claiming just adds confusion and expectations suck.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 21 2012 22:28 GMT
#408
On February 22 2012 07:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:25 redFF wrote:
On February 22 2012 07:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.

Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue.

But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth.

So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment.

heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me.


I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1?

If you are town it shouldn't be hard to show that and get us to back off on the right track. Claiming just adds confusion and expectations suck.


wtf is this supposed to say
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:28 GMT
#409
unvotes or explanations as to why not.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:29 GMT
#410
On February 22 2012 07:23 redFF wrote:
Explain how everything I've done has scum motivations wbg.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 21 2012 22:30 GMT
#411
On February 21 2012 21:47 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 12:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
On February 21 2012 12:32 chaoser wrote:
On February 21 2012 12:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
On February 21 2012 12:04 chaoser wrote:
If you notice though, that specific quote from Ace was towards the players of that game ASKING others for their LIST of town (and scum) reads in a no flip game.

It was basically a game that was easy to manipulate and a situation where EVERYONE was giving out reads like woah.

That is different from this case because it is only me giving my read. So if mafia wants, they can try to manipulate me and that's about it.

Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends.


I don't really see a problem because I don't plan to criss cross my reads with my votes (why would a townie need to do this) without explaining my change in reads first. The second point, again, doesn't matter since it's only my read and so mafia really can't tell who has "Strong" support or not.

Either way, there are ways for mafia to gauge "support" aside from seeing people's town reads. Just by looking at voting threads, one can usually deduce who is being supported and who isn't.

So that quote doesn't apply to this situation at all.


Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck

as much as I love to call him terrible, if he actually is town no one is going to defend him anyway and so you have no idea whether or not we're actually doing a good thing here.

Imagine VE being scum and you just called him town. You give him credence and reliability if he's scum. If he actually is town we don't actually gain anything except an opinion of yours, that, if you are town, can be manipulated. Certainly it's manipulable regardless of VE's real alignment.

If I'm not being clear enough: If I were scum, I'd love for people to do what town-Ace hates.


I'm not cocky enough to think that people will take my townie read at face value and will be highly regarded. As you can see, many people in the game don't care much for my thoughts at the moment anyway. RedFF is being voted on cause he's been scummy/playing shitty, not because I'm giving credulousness to VE.

Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck


At this point, it's only a few hours into day one and there's only like 4 votes on him, hardly what I'd call someone being "bandwagoned to fuck", especially with people saying they want to move off his lynch. I doubt we're going to sit on him and just waste the day. Do you?

I still don't think you've made a good case for why my giving a town read on VE was a bad move. Let's say we agree to disagree and move on.

Toad, what do you think about Jackal saying you're scum. And what do you think about the recent developments regarding RedFF? Does he still deserve a lynch, especially if we can't find anyone else to lynch by the end of the day?


I care about your opinion, same as I care about the opinion of the majority of the players in this game.
[...]
Finally, you probably know this, but as it's early morning in Europe I doubt Toad will be posting any time soon.


I do not know if that is supposed to be irony or mafia-Bugs brownnosing :p
With all seriousness I find that post weird.

Bugs just isn't the helpful kind of guy as a townie and this looks like a helpful kind of guy. If someone like myself would make that post that'd be fine, same with pretty much everyone else in here, especially the newer ones but bugs?
You're the hyperagressive guy aren't you?

I don't mind you telling people it was late in europe at that time (I went to bed at 2am, so it had to be later than that) but isn't bugs usually the guy who might see this kind of thing but won't say a thing because he wants the other guy to defend himself nevertheless the get some reads?
Remember L? He knew I was Town all along or at least for the last couple of days according to what he said. Yet he kept pushing me like a mad man, for fun and although he never said that he probably that to get some reads out of people like myself or people who are attacking me / defending me.

So I've got to say the few lines out of that big post I quoted make we feel like it's not bugs usual agressive style. You all saw what he was like when talking to redFF although that's over the top because it's redFF and I think those two don't like each other.
It's a minor thing but again, it really made me think for a moment.

still reading :p


course I'm helpful. People just don't see it when I'm being a raging asshole because of how retarded average town play is.

Basically if you want a couple reasons as to why I pointed out you were asleep, here you go:

1. I abused activity times in MLP as scum to push or influence players I knew couldn't respond. Example: Forumite, Nisani. I influenced Forumite's opinions during day when I knew he was asleep and then I pushed Nisani as scum both when he could respond and at like 2 am in the morning when I knew he couldn't.

2. As town I prefer immediate responses, which is why I don't often pose specific questions to players unless I know they're active. This is because I don't like giving scum time to fake responses. This is why I waited so long to ask syllo anything; I knew syllo would not be able to respond at the time so I chose to ask him just now because it's more likely he's online.

3. Recently in Hammer I died day 1 because my keyboard broke and I couldn't respond to the lynch. That sucks.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 21 2012 22:30 GMT
#412
On February 22 2012 07:29 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:23 redFF wrote:
Explain how everything I've done has scum motivations wbg.



I don't explain shit to scum to help them defend themselves, sorry.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
February 21 2012 22:31 GMT
#413
There is no rule against claiming the roles name, if you're going to roleclaim to save yourself why are you being so vague about it
RIP Aaliyah
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
February 21 2012 22:33 GMT
#414
On February 22 2012 07:25 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.

Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue.

But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth.

So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment.

heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me.


I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1?


What about stop playing like a scummy dickhole and not worry about your role? Fucks sake red.

##Unvote

(I never actually got around to voting in the thread, so this is just for posterity)

How do you propose we move forward red? Scum likely have a RB, and if they don't RB/kill you then I'll literally shit my pants...so do you have any final thoughts?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:33 GMT
#415
On February 22 2012 07:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 07:29 redFF wrote:
On February 22 2012 07:23 redFF wrote:
Explain how everything I've done has scum motivations wbg.



I don't explain shit to scum to help them defend themselves, sorry.

wat
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:35 GMT
#416
VE- I've provided scumreads in the form of kita and Toad, I've also said I'd be fine with a layabout lynch.

Bugs how would explaining how everything I've done has scum motivations help me defend myself. I think its just a phrase you threw out to make your vote seem legit.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 21 2012 22:40 GMT
#417
On February 22 2012 07:35 redFF wrote:
VE- I've provided scumreads in the form of kita and Toad, I've also said I'd be fine with a layabout lynch.

Bugs how would explaining how everything I've done has scum motivations help me defend myself. I think its just a phrase you threw out to make your vote seem legit.


stfu scum
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 21 2012 22:42 GMT
#418
I usually enjoy mafia but wbg has made this game incredibly unfun. wbg if you're sole goal in playing has been to make me mad, consider it accomplished. im out.

inb4 lol, AtE, drama queen, w/e, you're a fucking dick and you actively drive people from this forum.

peace.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 21 2012 22:43 GMT
#419
On February 22 2012 07:42 redFF wrote:
I usually enjoy mafia but wbg has made this game incredibly unfun. wbg if you're sole goal in playing has been to make me mad, consider it accomplished. im out.

inb4 lol, AtE, drama queen, w/e, you're a fucking dick and you actively drive people from this forum.

peace.


*your
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
February 21 2012 22:55 GMT
#420
On February 22 2012 07:42 redFF wrote:
I usually enjoy mafia but wbg has made this game incredibly unfun. wbg if you're sole goal in playing has been to make me mad, consider it accomplished. im out.

inb4 lol, AtE, drama queen, w/e, you're a fucking dick and you actively drive people from this forum.

peace.


In what way Red? By repeatedly calling you bad/stupid? Go reread your filter from Sleeper Cell and ask yourself if you have ANY RIGHT to be upset by that. Go on, I'll wait.

It's a little different when you're on the receiving end isn't it? Now, I'm not going to browbeat you repeatedly about it because now you're probably going to get modkilled - but you have to realize that you willingly participated in this game, an advanced game by most standards. And Palmar is fucking hosting it red - Mr. Everyone-But-Me-Is-A-Fucking-Retard....so go ahead and throw your little tantrum I guess, but understand that A) it's accomplishing nothing but helping the opposing faction regardless of your alignment and B) it makes you look like someone worse than bugs - someone who can dish out the insults to others, but can't take them himself.

My 2c

if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
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