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Sucks that s0lstice got lynched, he was one of the few active posters here. With people being lazy it's even easier for mafia to choose the active ones to get killed first. GG and thanks for the activity yo.
Let's get back to the real stuff, I think we have a good clue of the direction to move into:
I have no decisive scumreads yet. But I'll pick one of the three based on his post quality, activity levels and gut feeling:
##Vote grush57
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EBWOP: That's what you signed in for.
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EBWOP2: Killed, not lynched. 
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The case on Vivax
Vivax post count is okay given that he he missed basically the first 24 hours or so of the game so note that I'm not actually usuing his lurking as a reason for his suspicion but rather the content in his posts.He have been playing insanely passive up untill this point. You should all check out his filter. This guy has during D1 pretty much not taken a clear stance anywhere.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 10 2012 21:12 Vivax wrote:Good day guys. I opened this thread with the expectation of everyone pointing his finger at me for lurking so heavily the first half of day 1, for which I apologize now. I have had a REALLY shit day yesterday, and I didn't have any motivation whatsoever to get into the internet. I am not very willing to specify what happened yesterday since this is still the internet, I'll just mention that it involved me driving. Now that it's Sunday, I can lean back a bit, gonna have quite some shit going on from tomorrow on, but I feel that I can keep contributing to this game in spite of the circumstances, but don't expect me to be online whenever you are. Oh, and you should also know where I'm located to know the times I'm posting at: Austria/CET. Time to start Top-down:Like I already mentioned, I expected everyone to suspect me cause of policy lynching. Surprisingly, that's not the case. The policy talk quickly resulted into Release squeezing grush like a lemon throughout the game, but grush results to be a pretty dry one, just releasing unjuicy drops which only help to fortify the suspicions against him. Frankly I think Release has a really aggressive playstyle reminding me of my own last game, it's a great way to gain transparent information from other people and to a lesser extent from the accused ones, but also involves risks of all kind. The subsequent posts regaridng this case all revolve around the initial posts as tells. My verdict is: Release looks like he's tunneling pretty hard with the aggressive style, on the other hand I have to give him credit for getting out so much information from this case, town really IS busy due to this. Grush, well, if he's town I would be able to understand his somewhat angry, resignated answers as follow-up. If he's scum I would also be able to understand his high amount of one-liners with the least possible amount of information. However, his first posts really weren't helpful to town, so I'll treat him as suspicious, but not definitely guilty. I feel it's too early for me to cast a vote on him, he kind of reminds me of + Show Spoiler + last game, but less lurking. If he's the only alternative to a No lynch, you'll have my vote nontheless. I'm going to post more very soon, I'd prefer to keep my posts focused on single cases since I have to post a lot at once.
The first post by Vivax. Note that this is a long post. Note what he is saying. Well, what is he saying? Release is pushing grush hard but still he think it's good. grush is strange but he could very well be town. He is willing to lynch grush, at least under some circumstances. What did he REALLY say here? Remember my first post where I talked about different types of lurkers? This is the type who writes hellofapost and still very little content.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 10 2012 22:22 Vivax wrote:
Okay, I've been doing a stance analysis on the grush case and here's my promised post:
s0lstice prefers to go on with policy discussion in the first posts and goes on with it until he outs for the night.
When he's back, he completely drops grush and the policy discussion and puts his FoS on ha2etc.
Release thinks grush is guilty. Pretty much everyone agreed on grushs post about 'nothing to discuss' being a really bad suggestion for town play. Many dropped the case or defended grush in spite of this.
KtheZ notices the overconfidence of Release against grush and points out the danger of tunneling. But he also believes grush to have made scummy moves. I find his semi-calculations pretty strange tbh, but I guess it's his way of FoSing.
ShiaoPi has one post in which he says people should stop tunneling grush and instead pressure ha2etc. . What strikes me here is that he wants to pressure ha2etc. for actually defending grush. I find this to be contradictory.
Lazermonkey notices grush's suspicious posts and focuses on the people defending him in consequence after placing his FoS on grush.
ha2etc. soft-defends grush.
The_Zen_Man soft-defends grush.
I'm keeping my summary of the swedes in this thread rather short cause there are complex cases developing around them and I think these deserve an in-depth analysis before a summary.
So here is a summary post. Contains our opinions about grush. Not his own tho.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 05:29 Vivax wrote:
Here's an inofficial vote count somewhat including the order.
grush: Release
ha236: s0lstice, Release
The_Zen_Man: Lazermonkey
grush57: KTheZ
s0lstice: ha236
Release: ha236
Guys, we're at close danger of a no-lynch. I'm not very satisfied with ha236 as option cause I find his first posts regarding Lazermonkey and Release to be true, but on the other hand he didn't make a single case except for OMGUS ones now in the end and instead only spent time defending grush and himself.
It was a pretty bad day 1 imo, and it can get even worse if we will have to further lurk in the dark, you'll have my vote on ha236 for the sake of the lynch, but be aware of the fact that I'll gladly switch it for any other majority.
##vote ha236
@ s0lstice
odd analysis? To me town play seems to be messed up atm and you should actually thank me for getting a bit of transparency in here. Every single and good player would make such a summary in a case before going on and accusing single persons. I doubt one would want to play with a narrow sight.
So he does not like ha236 lynch. I'm okay with that. I'm even okay with that he says he is willing to lynch into Ha236 if he needs to, in order to archive majority. What I'm NOT okey with is that he still doesn't give an option. He is fast on on dismiss both grush and ha236 as targets but what does he think himself? Still he havn't given one scumread himself.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 06:21 Vivax wrote:Needless summarization? That is the type of summarization a good townie uses to get an idea of the connections someone had once he flips. If grush gets lynched, you can look up my summary and check the connections between grush and other players. Just cause you don't see the use doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Btw, I can prove you are being selective since I didn't see you pick on the following summary yet. I just wonder if you are being selective on purpose cause raising suspicion on me would further increase the chance of a No lynch or if it's by mistake. While working on Lazermonkeys case against The_Zen_Man i found another 'needless summarization': + Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 04:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
So right now, we have not too much time untill lynching. We need to get something done here. With nine players there are 5(Lol) players that have received FoS/Votes unless I'm misstaken. These players are:
grush
Ha236
me(Lazermonkey)
The_Zen_Man
s0Lstice
s0Lstice were also suspicious of KtheZ recently, although no FoS were placed. I especially liked LazerMans point regarding the contradiction between the FoS on him, but the vote on grush. It looks like The_Zen_Man doesn't believe much in his own case. We also have to consider that The_Zen_Man mostly used ha236 points already posted to soft-defend grush. That would allow scum to deflect attention to ha236 again in case gursh flips green. That's about the latest points made by Lazermonkey, now to my own analysis, I'll be especially focusing on The_Zen_Man's first posts: Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 18:11 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Hey guys, just woke up(time difference suck).
1:I have read some of the grush-release discussion, and i can say that i did found Grush comment weird. Also some of his later post is also strange. I will post a analysis on him later.
2:But release, you are going against him to hard. You said it yourself before, that your comment is useless to anyone but grush. If it's like that, you should let others give their opinions about him, and focus on someone else for a bit.
3:Also, as to my opinions on lynching, i agree that in case there is a hard lurker and no scum reads we should lynch the lurker, as he is not contributing anyways. But lynching with not much information (like d1) will probably result in a misslynch. We still gain information even is there is no lynch, by observing how players act before lynch, what they vote for, reaction after lynch, etc.
1. Here's the broken promise: We still have no analysis on grush from you. In a lynch all liars environment you would already be in huge trouble. 2. Without the analysis, you proceed to soft-defend him. The problem about your posts is the way you do that: You tell Release to focus on someone else. Imagine if he suddenly switched target like you propose, that would make him look quite inconsistent...and scummy. 3. The opinions on lynching. I mean, seriously? This part confuses the hell out of me. We should lynch lurkers, but on the other hand you say it will probably result in a mislynch. Then you actually say that we might gain information without a lynch. How is that so? Both points lack reasoning behind them and contradict the other points in your post. Your opinion on lynching policy is wishy washy and no opinion, you seem to promote everything at once. The next posts show your support of ha, always disproving points others make against grush, but at the same time you emphasize your beliefs that he looks scummy. Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 17:35 The_Zen_Man wrote:
I really don't know how ha got to be one of the "top" scum reads on this game. His play does not seem scummy at all to me. I think the best d1 lynch is grush, and then we can think about how to proceed once he flips. Once ha gets into the crosshair, all of sudden you think it's best to drop all your defenses of grush and to lynch him. When Lazermonkey actually notices your suspicious behavior: Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 20:14 The_Zen_Man wrote:
The case against Lazermonkey:
First of all, i would like to say that i am not making this in respond to Lazermonkey voring on me, but rather that he said that i did not have any ideas of my own.
I think this quotation of mine reminds that he does have a point about that. You took many of the points about grushs defense from ha236, allowing you to deflect responsibility in case they turn out to be wrong. Looking at your and ha2's posts, your stances are soft and inconsistent as opposed to his, so I'll let you know: If there's a choice between a majority on you and a majority on ha2, I will pick the one against you. ##FoS The_Zen_Man
His first real case on someone. This time he gives some actual opnions, which is good. However, why the FoS? Why not a vote? He first agrees with alot of my points about Zen_Man and also brings up a couple of new ones. All in all, the whole posts are filled with accusations yet he only FoS him. I feel like he is testing the waters here.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 07:20 Vivax wrote:
I've got the vote for Zen_Man ready, I'll give him about 30 minutes more time to post a defense, then I will proceed to vote for him.
We have a majority on him, that's for sure. I think even 6, not 5. Count me in in case he doesn't post a nukeproof defense.
Strange post. You said earlier that in case of majority on Zen_Man, you would vote him. Yet you don't. Contradiction here. Vivax finally decides to vote Zen_Man anyway but only after both Ha236 and s0lstice have laid down their votes.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 12 2012 20:33 Vivax wrote:Sucks that s0lstice got lynched, he was one of the few active posters here. With people being lazy it's even easier for mafia to choose the active ones to get killed first. GG and thanks for the activity yo. Let's get back to the real stuff, I think we have a good clue of the direction to move into: I have no decisive scumreads yet. But I'll pick one of the three based on his post quality, activity levels and gut feeling: ##Vote grush57
The tone is this post is sooo... I don't know, different? You finally give out reads. In the end of your post tho, you say you have no decisive scumreads tho. You still vote grush right away. Think about how hard it was for him to vote Zen_Man last night even tho he had loads of suspicion on him and compare to this. wtf. You would also fine with lynching any of theese 3. I feel you're almost wanting to lynch for the sake of lynching here. We don't lynch because of that, we lynch because we want to kill scum. At least one of these persons must be townie but you are still okay with lynching any of them. And your motivations for lynching any of them is kinda meh. Your problems with both Ha and KTheZ seems to be their activity level and not the content of their posts.
Overall, this guy has basically taken no strong stances anywhere. He makes huge posts with little to no content. All players he have put up this ''weak'' pressure on are those who are already under heavy fire. First grush, then Ha236, then Zen_Man and lastly KTheZ. With all these players(maybe not Zen_Man tho) he basically says ''I'm willing to lynch if necesary but I'm not sure he is scum''. This is classic bandwagon play.
##Vote: Vivax
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I've already responded to s0lstice in defense of my first posts. He also felt my summarizations were needless. If you want answers to your accusations, read spoiler 3 and 4. It pretty much comes down to whether or not you think it's useless if someone posts overviews of town relations.
Then you say I didn't give scumreads yet. Just lol, the next spoiler already contains my read, I wonder why you bother criticizing me for something which is disproved in the next thing you mention.
I said earlier that I would vote for Zen_Man in case that there was a majority possible on him.
While I was writing that, town was about to lynch ha236.
If I switched my vote at the point you find suspicious cause I didn't do so, then I would have put the town at danger of a no lynch.
Gl the next day with no new information gained except for a nightkill that might allow mafia to make someone look suspicious or get rid of a better townie than the would-have-been-lynched one.A lynch is always better than no lynch,
Zen_Man really appeared scummy. He didn't even claim. It was a solid lynch from a perspective of someone not knowing his alignment, and if he wouldn't have died, he just would have kept the circle of suspects bigger along with town's insecurity.
That was my defense to your feeble points, now I think you really deserve to be in the spotlight for what I'm about to post:
I still have posted more useful cases than anyone I mentioned in my post above.
I wonder why you suddenly start bothering me and not them. You are giving them incentives to keep lurking, and their lurking is one of the reason I don't have decisive scumreads on them.
That, on the other hand, makes YOU suspicious. When I'm about to call out lurkers, you start accusing me with a really weak case. 'When you can't defend your scumbuddies, discredit their attackers' could be what you're plotting.
You have also tunneled The_Zen_Man with a rather weak case (as opposed to my case against him). Maybe you knew of his alignment, and maybe you even suspected he could have a blue role. On the other hand, you keep protecting ha236 with words and grush with your behavior, while you completely ignore KtheZ.
You have a history of tunneling mate, and your posts aren't less wishywashy than what you think of other people's posts, just check this out:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 04:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
So right now, we have not too much time untill lynching. We need to get something done here. With nine players there are 5(Lol) players that have received FoS/Votes unless I'm misstaken. These players are:
grush
Ha236
me(Lazermonkey)
The_Zen_Man
s0Lstice
s0Lstice were also suspicious of KtheZ recently, although no FoS were placed.
We need to know who are willing to vote for who, even if they are not your n1 scumread if we are going to get a decent lynch tonight.
Right now my main scumread is The_Zen_Man but I am also willing to lynch grush. Ha236 has imo given quite solid response to the accusations against him and I'm not very keen on lynching him anymore. I am not sure about either s0lstice and KtheZ yet tho, as their cases were very recently posted.
Look how scummy you actually are, even by your own definition.
You make a summarization (I used that to prove s0lstice's selective view.)
You moderate a lot: 'We need to get something done', 'We need to know who are willing to vote for who' and 'even if they are not your n1 scumread'
I highlighted this cause it contradicts the points in your case against me. You say I'm scummy cause I tell who I'm willing to vote for, and then I'm scummy cause I'm not entirely sure of the scumreads on them when I vote. You actually promoted that in your moderation .
Not to mention your stances on lynch candidates, the syntax of that part is 'I'm not sure on who to lynch', that's all one can get from what you wrote there.
And while writing this I also realized that I should make you my first of suspects. You're screwing up pretty badly, and I hope that the still active part of town will recognize your mistakes (or slips) like I do.
##unvote
##Vote Lazermonkey
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It still baffles me that people chose to be so ignorant around Release, he is openly refusing to defend himself against anything I (seeing as I'm the only one pressuring him) have said.
That being said I see you all would like some raw opinion so let's take a look at KtheZ:
Everyone is giving me crap for not having posted "cases" in a while, has no one looked as KtheZ's filter? There's one or two posts about grush in the very early stages of the game but other than that there's nothing but posts summerizing other peoples opinion's and defending himself against peoples accusations. I by no means think this is a bad thing, but it doesn't give us (or atleast me) alot to go on. There's too few 'post chains' that are actually started by you, meaning your honest, fresh opinion that people can factor in to their reads.
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YA CUZ HE'S MAFIA DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH
##Vote: KtheZ
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On June 12 2012 23:46 grush57 wrote:
YA CUZ HE'S MAFIA DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH
##Vote: KtheZ
Any way for you to get maybe more productive instead of random votethrowing?
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I don't need logic when I'm Detective.
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On June 13 2012 00:45 grush57 wrote:
I don't need logic when I'm Detective.
Are you role claiming? Cause I have something to say about that.
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On June 12 2012 23:46 grush57 wrote:
YA CUZ HE'S MAFIA HURR DURR
##Vote: KtheZ
Fix'd.
Dunno what to think of this, but I think it wouldn't hurt to wait how the two handle it now. They are both on my to-'do'-list.
Grush, care to spend more than a few minutes on your posts?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Wait so you guys are actually claiming?
grush57 vs. KtheZ?
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On June 13 2012 01:56 ShiaoPi wrote:
Wait so you guys are actually claiming?
grush57 vs. KtheZ?
Didn't see a claim yet, but if both claim we will nail 1 scum for sure.
One hour has passed and still nothing from KTheZ. Grush has been derping around all game long, but KTheZ is surpassing him at it right now.
He's either a pretty bad townie or scum denying information. Pretty sloppy from both perspectives to announce he's gonna post something and then leave it unfulfilled.
I don't think a scum grush would claim like that without a good reason, he isn't under pressure atm and if KtheZ flips town he's dead anyway.
I'm very curious to see if KtheZ actually ends up replying.
#unvote
##Vote KTheZ
I still wanna hear opinions regarding the 'Lazermonkey vs. me-case'.
And now that grush is most likely a townie he can stop playing the minimalist style 
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I was waiting for grush to confirm this rather than him joking.
A reply will be provided in due time, maybe an hour or 3
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On June 12 2012 17:41 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 12:09 ha236 wrote:
Still waiting for Release to make a defense for any of my posts back at the end of day 1. There's just been mindless blabber in his posts on the night, he openly declines to answer my questions and no one else seems to give a damn? Seems strange to me. Think hard about that "mindless blabber" and you know what he was trying to do, or go read his filter in his last game and it should be obvious. If you are trying to make a case against Release, you better post a good one and not some tidbits between each line how "flawed" his logic is. Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 13:56 Release wrote:
It's so strange right?
##vote: ha236
Don't even try to claim this as suspicious.
I don't know why solstice switched day 1, but i know why i claimed you were still scum.
Shiaopi, vivax, grush, and townies, feel free to join me.
So Vivax, grush and me are not in the townie group? O_o
I say you guys because we along with solstice were originally voting for ha.
I say townies and not other townies because i can't assume that you're all town.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Release, some thoughts regarding these wtf claims?
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I still don't get this. Are you both claiming? Because I feel a very unserious tone in grush's post. But if this is true then it means that one of you is detective and the other one is scum. Because I see very little reason for a townie to be claiming detective...
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Well I've pretty much ended up claiming because of grush.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:40 KtheZ wrote:
Well I've pretty much ended up claiming because of grush.
You claiming DT now?
Who did you check n1 then? Same question to grush
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On June 12 2012 23:46 grush57 wrote:
YA CUZ HE'S MAFIA DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH
##Vote: KtheZ
This is basically the way Release has been responding to my posts also.
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EPT
