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Balance-Sorted Pro-Map Pack - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
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Tom Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1114 Posts
April 08 2009 20:38 GMT
#21
On April 08 2009 17:05 StrikerX22 wrote:
Okay, yeah that's probably the best method we have so far for such a list.

You can ignore my matchups comment, it wasn't really founded.... probably partly was due to not knowing your process. But arranging by matchups just shows more options... Like, if you showed the top 10 balanced TvZ maps, ZvP maps, and PvT maps, then it'd be more variety while maintaining as much balance or better, since you compromised the list slightly by adding maps with an unknown element for one matchup (you failed to mention which race or if it really was only a little, even if least). I'd of course be willing to make these sorts of lists sometime if you don't want to. And of course, we can go the extra mile and list Old-Only and New-Only versions of the lists, and a mixed for people that want it simple.


I see your point. Well, since there seems to be interest in such lists, I will make them. While I currently have to write a post for my blog, I will try to make them after that.

As for why I did not mention where the maps on the bottom are imbalances...well, that is what the TLPD links are for. If the viewers are click away from finding out which matcup is imbalanced, I think it is a waste of time to write where a certain map is imbalanced.

And for those of you complaining about the maps on the list. I am sorry, but statistically, these are the most balanced maps of all time. I was suprised at some of the statistics myself. For example, I was shocked to find out that Destination is a Protoss favoured map on PvT, even though, as a Protoss player, I cannot count the number of times I lost on that map due to a contain. But unless the real Steve was tampering with the results, I cannot really challenge those figures. :/ Basically, it is the fault of the progamers that the statistics are as they are.
You and your "5 years of competitive RTS experience" can take a hike. - FrozenArbiter
StrikerX22
Profile Joined February 2009
United States41 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-09 08:19:38
April 09 2009 08:18 GMT
#22
Thanks for the support, I look forward to the lists. Do however much you like, and I can fill in the rest. It'll end up in the OP and the Readme.txt in any future update (perhaps for that sole reason, but eh).

It's true the links are there for checking, but it's assumed they're balanced for all by the context, and the services are to cut down work, so it is in that spirit to display any such information. It'd be simple enough to say the worst matchup % next to it as a warning. I know it's picky but that's how I've been with the whole project.

Update on the download links... I've never used these services, so I misunderstood the 1GB daily limit to downloads to be for my files... it actually applies only to files I download using my account. My files can be downloaded without limit, providing they are kept alive within the 30 days since last d/l. This applies to Sendspace, but I'm gonna assume Rapidshare is the same, except 90 days. Either way, it's a secondary link, so it's all good.
If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey
Tom Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1114 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-14 03:47:58
April 14 2009 03:44 GMT
#23
After some time, I finally managed to complete this. As requested by Striker, each map has it`s most unbalanced matchup and the winrate of that matchup written next to it. Remember, these are statistically the most balanced maps for a certain matchup, so these do not take into account the playstyles of the time they were played. With that said, here are the top 10 maps for each matchup:


Top 10 ZvP Maps


+ Show Spoiler +
1. Sin Peaks of Baekdu (PvT: 59.6%)
2. Blue Storm (TvZ: 38.2%)
3. Destination (TvZ: 64.2%)
3. Neo Requiem (PvT: 72.3%)
5. Neo Forte (TvZ: 85.7%)
6. Tau Cross (PvT: 55.3%)
7. Luna (TvZ: 44.6%)
8. Sin Gaema Gowon (PvT: 60%)
9. Medusa (PvT: 68.4%)
10. Nostalgia (ZvP: 54.5%)
10. Rush Hour 3 (PvT: 25%)

Comments: With exactly 24 wins on both sides, Sin Peaks of Baekdu has an exact 50% winrate and thus has the first place unchallenged. But the lower spots are far more interesting, since the maps are so close in winrates. A mere 0.2% seperates Blue Storm and Destination/Neo Requiem, while the only thing seperating Medusa from a tenth place is a difference of 0.1%. Since Destination and Neo Requiem both have an exact 51.5% winrate and since Nostalgia and Rush Hour 3 both have an exact 54.5% winrate, they share their spots. The fact that Nostalgia`s worst matchup still qualifies for the top 10 list is a testament to it`s statistical balance.

The ZvP winrate of these maps ranges between 46.7% and 54.5%. Byzantium 2 has a 50% winrate in this matchup, but has only 5 wins for each side.


Top 10 PvT Maps

+ Show Spoiler +
1. Longinus 2 (ZvP: 30.8%)
2. R-Point (TvZ: 65.1%)
3. Luna (TvZ: 44.6%)
4. Ride of Valkyries (ZvP: 60%)
5. Wuthering Heights (ZvP: 33.3%)
5. Zodiac (ZvP: 66.7%)
7. Blue Storm (TvZ: 38.2%)
8. Arcadia 2 (ZvP: 43.3%)
9. Nostalgia (ZvP: 54.5%)
10. Namja Iyagi (TvZ 33.3%)

Comments: Again, we have a clear winner in the form of Longinus 2 with 12 wins for each side and thus a perfect 50% win rate. Ironically, the difference between R-Point and Luna is 0.1%, between Luna and Ride of Valkyries is 0.2% and between Ride of Valkyries and Wuthering Heights/Zodiac is 0.3%. Wuthering Heights and Zodiac both stand at a 51.7% winrate (and have the equal score of 15-14), thus sharing 5th place.

The PvT winrate of these maps ranges between 47.2% and 52.6%. With the exception of Monty Hall SE (50%, but only 12 games played), all well tested maps beyond these 10 have a 55% or greater winrate for either side.


Top 10 TvZ Maps

+ Show Spoiler +
1. 815 III (PvT: 72%)
1. Ride of Valkyries (ZvP: 60%)
1. Neo Requiem (PvT: 72.3%)
4. Sin Gaema Gowon (PvT: 60%)
5. Arizona (ZvP: 73.3%)
6. Sin Pioneer Period (ZvP: 75%)
7. Arcadia 2 (ZvP: 43.3%)
8. Neo Arkanoid (ZvP: 75%)
9. Chupung-Ryeong (PvT: 65.5%)
9. Into the Darkness 2 (PvT: 63.6%)

Comments: While the ZvP and PvT lists did include some notable maps, they still hid a few suprises. But if you were in any way bewildered by some of the maps on those lists, then the TvZ list probably left you dumbfounded as some unusual maps claimed the top spots in this matchup. The biggest suprise is the three-way tie for first place. All three of them have a 50% winrate with 815 III having 23 wins per side, Ride of Valkyries 22 wins per side and Neo Requiem 21 wins per side. In addition, Arcadia 2 took 7th place from Neo Arkanoid by a mere 0.1% difference. Lastly, Chupung-Ryeong and Into the Darkness 2 have the same winrate, albeit on opposite sides (52.6% and 47.4%), which gives them both 9th place. While both of them have 19 games in this matchup, that is sufficiently close to call. However, if you feel rather uncomfortable about those two maps, the ones immediatlly following them are Neo Harmony (52.8%/ZvP: 75%), Andromeda (53.3%/ZvP: 59%) and Hitchhiker (53.3%/ZvP: 0%...no, that is not a typo).

The TvZ winrate of these maps ranges from 47.4% and 52.6%. Neo Jungle Story has a 50% winrate in this matchup, but only has 5 wins for each side.


And that is all, ladies and gentleman. If there is popular demand for any other lists, let me know. I will see if me and Striker can arrange some of these maps according to the Old-New scheme. However, it will be difficult, since determining the validity of one map in modern times is a bit of a slippery slope. But we will see.
You and your "5 years of competitive RTS experience" can take a hike. - FrozenArbiter
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