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On July 25 2004 18:53 Element)FrEaK wrote: Protoss doesn't need alot of gas for any matchups but pvz......*blinks*.
We're talking about the PvZ imbalance on no gas nat maps jackass.
Rofl please tell me where anyone said anything about thi
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Dunno about zvt but zvp is a lot easier when protoss only has 1 gas and 2 mineralbases =)
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Texas-style beans give me gas
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
zvt its easier for zerg since terran cant get alot of tanks having to use most of the gas for vessels/medics/upgrades so lurkers get alot stronger that way so even thougt u'll have less lurks early on they'll be more powerfull..in zvp u can lurk/ling contain wich will be very hard for toss with 1 gas to break out from but in zvp u also have good options like 3 hat hydra or 1 base muta..1 base muta the toss will often not suspect and those it can be powerfull despait having low muta numbers...also zerglings in zvp gets very strong since toss got low gas for archons...
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On July 25 2004 19:03 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: When I play protoss v zerg I am always struggling for gas for templar tech etc. Mineral only expansion is a problem for protoss I think.
against zerg, yes
against terran, it's an advantage for protoss
no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T
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On July 26 2004 02:30 GroT wrote: Show nested quote +On July 25 2004 19:03 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: When I play protoss v zerg I am always struggling for gas for templar tech etc. Mineral only expansion is a problem for protoss I think. against zerg, yes against terran, it's an advantage for protoss no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T
agreed ~!
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On July 26 2004 02:30 GroT wrote: Show nested quote +On July 25 2004 19:03 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: When I play protoss v zerg I am always struggling for gas for templar tech etc. Mineral only expansion is a problem for protoss I think. against zerg, yes against terran, it's an advantage for protoss no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T isn't it Z = T on nostalgia? if the zerg secures a 3rd base, almost always the zerg wins
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On July 26 2004 02:01 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote: zvt its easier for zerg since terran cant get alot of tanks having to use most of the gas for vessels/medics/upgrades so lurkers get alot stronger that way so even thougt u'll have less lurks early on they'll be more powerfull..in zvp u can lurk/ling contain wich will be very hard for toss with 1 gas to break out from but in zvp u also have good options like 3 hat hydra or 1 base muta..1 base muta the toss will often not suspect and those it can be powerfull despait having low muta numbers...also zerglings in zvp gets very strong since toss got low gas for archons... its easier for terran. on LT, 1 base T = 2 base Z. if you take away a gas from the zerg, t will have advantage.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On July 26 2004 02:01 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote: zvt its easier for zerg since terran cant get alot of tanks having to use most of the gas for vessels/medics/upgrades so lurkers get alot stronger that way so even thougt u'll have less lurks early on they'll be more powerfull..in zvp u can lurk/ling contain wich will be very hard for toss with 1 gas to break out from but in zvp u also have good options like 3 hat hydra or 1 base muta..1 base muta the toss will often not suspect and those it can be powerfull despait having low muta numbers...also zerglings in zvp gets very strong since toss got low gas for archons...
some1 like nada can kill 4 lurkers with 14 marines 3 medics... so no that's not completly true --a
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The point is that Marines are viable vs anything that Zerg can throw at them. Pure Zerglings, on the other hand, are not.
Therefore a mineral-only expansion, apart from diminishing economical differences between a Terran who can simultaneously build workers and troops and a Zerg who can only make one at a time, mainly creates grounds for gas expansions.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
Not to mention that the mineral only expand is still 7 patches on nostalgia, so you can pump rines with 6~7 rax, that combined with a constant production of tanks, you can just walk around with groups of m&m and kill expands etc. while you're building up your main force. Once you got 6 tanks, you move out, expand to gas with 3 bunkers in the choke point, and have this monster army with 60 marines.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On July 25 2004 22:00 PheeRed.User wrote: Show nested quote +On July 25 2004 18:53 Element)FrEaK wrote: Protoss doesn't need alot of gas for any matchups but pvz......*blinks*.
We're talking about the PvZ imbalance on no gas nat maps jackass. Rofl please tell me where anyone said anything about thi
pheered, you said "protoss doesn't need a lot of gas for any matchup than [sic] pvz" and thus freak responded by saying that this thread is precisely about pvz imbalance with mineral only naturals, so i don't see why you are rofl other than at your own inability to read the thread correctly
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definitely harder for toss if there's no gas in pvz. toss needs gas badly especially since storm got nerfed and you have to spend 375 gas to get an obs every time you want to laeve your main. it's also easier on zerg because every time zerg is the one who's gonna get an exp outside his nat first. so he will have a second gas long before the toss does.
but in pvt i'd rather not have a gas nat. terran needs gas a lot worse than toss in that situation i'd say, for tanks.
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On July 26 2004 03:10 Teroru wrote: Show nested quote +On July 26 2004 02:30 GroT wrote: On July 25 2004 19:03 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: When I play protoss v zerg I am always struggling for gas for templar tech etc. Mineral only expansion is a problem for protoss I think. against zerg, yes against terran, it's an advantage for protoss no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T agreed ~!
agreed
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Z needs gas more then P does. Think about it -- Who gets to gas intensive techs first, Z or P? Z tech being lurks, mutas and P tech being temps.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
You're wrong, you don't necessarily need lurkers before having your gas expand vs protoss :/
You could even do hydra's when you have proper micro vs terrans first, take gas exp and add lurker later.
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Braavos36374 Posts
the argument is not which race uses more gas units, but rather that since the z gets its second gas (technically third expansion) much faster than the toss' third expansion, toss is at a disadvantage on maps with no gas naturals
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i kinda think they would get upper hand maybe get another expo with that money
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terran has a temporary upper hand sure, but in LT once terran gets a 2nd geyser zerg has to start taking the map or it's goodbye. on nostalgia if terran takes their natural zerg doesnt need the whole map to counter. and terran taking a gas outside of their natural at that point? hard?
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