EPTHe flipped town in the end but he did manage to do a lot of damage on the way.
So i don't think he is off. I think he might be town.
TL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 17
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
He flipped town in the end but he did manage to do a lot of damage on the way. So i don't think he is off. I think he might be town. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 22 2012 03:29 layabout wrote: why are you being so dense? can you at least make an effort to understand what i am saying rather than throwing away you vote. How am I being dense? I said hey later we should lynch letters because they're useless and not posting isn't pro-town. You said risen stop being stupid and trying to lynch lurkers right now the game just started. I have no idea what you're talking about | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote: Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree? Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1 | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
So ... you calling me scum or what? | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
I can accept the town not reaching a consensus about any possible vigilante plans. Even though I still think that it would be a good deal for us, it's pretty clear that not everyone would be on board, and that's that. I like BH's case on marvellosity. Marv is vague and unhelpful: statements like this and this indicate that either he's not actually thinking about the topic, or that he is and isn't willing to actually explain his thought process. This lack of transparency is surprisingly out of character for him, considering his previous town play in TL Mafia LI, where he was much more direct, asked questions about players' motivations and not objective things like how shots would resolve, and actually responded to big posts in detail, not just with a: On April 21 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: Holy gonzaw post. Nice ##Vote: marvellosity Risen is coming off as really defensive, what with his retaliatory vote on layabout, but I can't tell if he's scum, and my intuition on him is leaning town, mostly because I don't think that he was actually trying to defend marv. If he thinks that posting is pro-town, and honestly believes that that's a good enough heuristic, then I can see where he's coming from. Janaan, if you're going to acknowledge that the vig plans are no longer a useful topic, then save all that for the post-game. What do you think of Marv? | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
No. Why even bring that up? I'd call you scum if I thought you were scum. Scum aren't the only ones who jump on a stupid wagon. Lazy townies who don't feel like posting or playing jump on them and screw town too. | ||
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St.Daniel
United States29 Posts
I've read everything and I can't conclude anything with a confident, but I do have some ideas based on my observation so far. I'll post again as soon as I put some of pieces together. And there is no need to be hostile at each this early in game, because thst's EXACTLY what they (scum) want. As long as we keep expressing ideas without trying to bite each other's head off. Remember, keep it simple and clear. <3 TL. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
That said, my one-liners didn't come across overly helpful. I've just read through the last 7 pages of this thread I've missed and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the vigi business. My one-liners were one-liners because I haven't had time to grasp the issue at hand yet. Anyway, I'm going to play around in notepad with this vig business so I can actually take a stance and get back to you in the next few hours. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On April 22 2012 03:46 MidnightGladius wrote: Janaan, if you're going to acknowledge that the vig plans are no longer a useful topic, then save all that for the post-game. What do you think of Marv? At this point, what I don't like most about Marv's posts is that he obviously saw Gonzaw's big post about vigs, decided to comment on it's shear size, but then apparently decided not to take 15 minutes to actually read it and make comments on what Gonzaw was actually saying. Even though he earlier said that the early game was the perfect time to discuss stuff like that. His posts have added nothing to the thread, if he didn't post at all we wouldn't be any worse for it. I'd still like to hear what Marv has to say for himself, if anything, but at this point, I'd say he's a good candidate for lynch. @Risen, cool off, man. you're being very defensive right now, and your case seems to be little more than OMGUS to me. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On April 22 2012 04:02 St.Daniel wrote: It's so fucking hard to keep up with everything when you are at a camp with a crappy internet connection XD I've read everything and I can't conclude anything with a confident, but I do have some ideas based on my observation so far. I'll post again as soon as I put some of pieces together. And there is no need to be hostile at each this early in game, because thst's EXACTLY what they (scum) want. As long as we keep expressing ideas without trying to bite each other's head off. Remember, keep it simple and clear. <3 TL. what the fuck? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
From reading a few filters, it seems that a couple of people have arrived at the same conclusion as I am about to - whatever merits gonzaw's plan has, it's kinda pointless if it isn't gonna be agreed on by everyone, and by this stage it's clear it's not going to be. I am glad of all the conversation that's been had on the matter, because it means going forwards people will be able to critically analyse flips and night kills, so if nothing else that's a positive to marker. One thing I didn't like about the whole gonzaw - VE exchange was VE's pretty bad breakdown of gonzaw's plan. It seemed to amount to this - if JK doesn't agree with the plan, then the plan is bad. But... the whole idea of the plan was that everyone agreed to it, so the JK was obviously on board, it was a terrible criticism. Looking further into VE's filter, I didn't see any further substantial objection, and he went forward to accusing gonzaw for his 'scumslip', which was at best minor, and can generally be read as unimportant. To MidnightGladius (and VE because he will understand due to being involved with me in Newbie VI) and others - regarding my 'meta'. Have a look at my Space Station Mafia filter - also full of one-liners and not a lot useful, where I was townie. This is a product of not really knowing or understanding what was going on. In Newbie VI, my play in the first half was somewhat directionless and scummy, to the point where both dead blues had strong suspicions of me, as did the last remaining townie in lylo. Only in the second half of the game where I had plenty of material to work with (I like filters) did I manage to find the scum and make a convincing case. In Mafia LI, I replaced in for the start of Day 2 - there was already a lot of material to work with. Rounding off quickly, Matt's case on Paqman - it doesn't seem to have much merit. Reading through the case, I asked myself 'could Paqman have posted all this as town?' - and my answer was yes, it was all perfectly feasibly townie. I should mostly be available to read questions for most of the evening, so if people would like to quiz me, go ahead. I would quite like not to be lynched before I've even got started. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
He seems to spend quite a lot of his time clarifying other people's stances, he asks VE a question about his analysis of Gonzaw's plan, but there's very little content there. He doesn't take any hard stances himself, just asks for others to take stances. It just feels to me like he's taking advantage of all this vig policy talk to get in some questions that ultimately don't really matter and expand his filter. He does say that he has suspicions, but immediately nullifies them by saying that it's too early to even mention them. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd like to hear them and the reasons for the suspicions. What do ya'll think about him so far? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 22 2012 01:28 Mementoss wrote: Despite myself making a plan for vigs im starting to think its going to be impossible to get everyone to agree to one plan, and none of the plans work unless all vigs on on board. Vigs just keep your actions beneficial to the town and think about the consequences. I still really think vigs should play like vets and try to soak up night kills, confirming themselves not real GFs. Sadly I have to agree with this. (I was going to comment about layabout's points and other people, but it will only clogg up the thread, so I'll leave it be). If some people agree with my plan, while others don't, then it's possible the real vigs are the ones opposed to my plan, meaning even if a majority agrees with it (which is not the case) it won't do any good. You know, I'm pretty sure if we ever lynch a GF he WILL claim vigilante beforehand, and will make sure to do it at the last minute (so we can't switch the lynch to someone else, or if we do scum control who gets lynched). Let's see if we can agree on something at least:
At least this will buffer the chaos a GF lynch flip would make by making us redirect our focus somewhere else before that happens. To VE: On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz. For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?" He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT! You keep ignoring my case, and you don't really state why my plan has a scum agenda behind it. Remember the vigs hurt town this game, outing them before they hurt town is the opposite of a "scum agenda" (PRE EDIT: Now that Mementos (I think) pointed it out, I realise that if X vigs claim, scum will know how many trackers/JKs are around, and if scum fake-claim vig then we won't know how many other blues are around yet scum will. I didn't really think of this, and even though it's not that big of a deal in comparison to the other benefits from my plan, it's a significant con) I'm scumhunting as well, I'm not ROL on Purgatory Mafia that just discussed his "bad" plan and never did shit. I'm trying to contribute to the game too. Are you saying I'm scum and I'm faking to scumhunt as well? And again, you IGNORE everything else going on in the thread. You ignore the Paqman dilemma. You ignore the Mattchew one. You ignore the marvellosity one as well You know, kind of how you acted in LI, not caring about the game. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you are acting quite aggressively, not like your meta from that game, but if you want to convince me you are town you have to care about the game. To Mattchew: On April 22 2012 02:31 Mattchew wrote: Why is paqman's only behaviour and mine suspicious? Do you find me to actually be more suspicious than paqman? What do you think about VE then? And what do you think about this plan thing and me "scumslipping" or some shit? Paqman does flipflop around too much, but other than that I don't find him suspicious. I'd like your thoughts on other matters first Matt, and of course other people's thoughts on Paq and VE. However I dunno why it seems to me you are actively avoiding the VE thing or trying to draw attention somewhere else than on VE. So please don't avoid it. You ignored all that was happening in the thread to make a half-assed FoS on Paqman It reminded me of how Toad played on LI (not caring shit about what happened in the thread and FoSing someone completely different to disrupt town). So yeah, I found that suspicious, even more so than Paqman at that point (I think he's most likely town at this point). I have to agree with you on something though: About Daniel: On April 22 2012 04:02 St.Daniel wrote: It's so fucking hard to keep up with everything when you are at a camp with a crappy internet connection XD I've read everything and I can't conclude anything with a confident, but I do have some ideas based on my observation so far. I'll post again as soon as I put some of pieces together. And there is no need to be hostile at each this early in game, because thst's EXACTLY what they (scum) want. As long as we keep expressing ideas without trying to bite each other's head off. Remember, keep it simple and clear. <3 TL. I don't really like this post either. Too "neutral" and kind of apologetic, without contributing at all. For instance the bolded part is all fluff and irrelevant (specially since nobody was that "hostile" to each other). I'll wait till you "post again soon and put some pieces together"; hopefully it's very soon To Risen On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote: I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. Okay, so you don't find "anyone" scummy by now? So, tell me this then: What do you find not scummy about VE? What do you find not scummy about Paqman? What do you find not scummy about Mattchew? What do you find not scummy about marv? If you don't think someone is scummy, while other people in the thread do, then you ought to post your reasoning and thoughts about said player and why you don't think he's scummy, because that player is a major point of discussion in the thread and it's your duty as town (if you are) to contribute to the thread regarding the major points of discussion. Again, not caring about the game, or just saying "Meh, I don't think all the people being discussed are scummy, here I'll vote a completely irrelevant dude and FoS him and put all my attention to him" is exactly what Toad did in LI, and I find that sort of behaviour very suspicious. Also, what do you mean by the bolded bit? And why would you vote the hydra? You think he's scum? Why? @Jitsu: Hey Jitsu-part-of-the-hydra, would you mind posting your thoughts on the game so far? @sloosh: You are also making a whole lotta effort in ignoring everything that's happening in the thread. Care to contribute something else? About Ottoxlul: I didn't find his posting suspicious, at least when this thread was at the "plans" stage. I'd want him to take stances on these past few issues. About Paqman, marv, Matt, Risen, etc. About marv: I don't like his somewhat lack of effort in the beginning of this day, yet I don't find him that suspicious as some people have said. He's got quite a few votes very fast too, which always makes me nervous about the legitimacy of wagons. However, I don't really see him as town, and I could see him being scum, so he wouldn't be a bad lynch candidate. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
And yes I think VisceraEyes is scum. | ||
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BlazingJitsu
United States112 Posts
On April 22 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote: @Jitsu: Hey Jitsu-part-of-the-hydra, would you mind posting your thoughts on the game so far? The lesser head is currently absorbed in the wonderful world of D3 open beta. Do you have a more specific question than that? -Blazinghand | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
It seems like we won't have a consensus on the vig situation, but it was a very helpful debate to get infos. Too bad not everyone posted yet. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I'm here so you can ask me what you want to. I'll be building my case against VE in the meantime. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
I see gonzaw arrived a reasonable way to "plan" vigilantes here. That is, a vigilante should just play as a normal vigi. I still can't be sure who I should vote. I see marvellosity is leading the votecount, can someone provide me a link to a case of his, or even a page where I can find it? I know it's silly to ask for that, but I am really busy atm and as much as I can condense what is happening, the easier it will be to catch up. I promise I'll do better day2 onwards | ||
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BlazingJitsu
United States112 Posts
On April 22 2012 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: I still can't be sure who I should vote. I see marvellosity is leading the votecount, can someone provide me a link to a case of his, or even a page where I can find it? I know it's silly to ask for that, but I am really busy atm and as much as I can condense what is happening, the easier it will be to catch up. I promise I'll do better day2 onwards No problem bro doosk: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=14#270 + Show Spoiler [My Case on Marv] + On April 21 2012 20:13 BlazingJitsu wrote: Marvellosity. Let me talk to you. No correction let me talk AT you. what are you doing this game? Let's look at your filter + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 09:05 marvellosity wrote: Mattchew, I thought we were gonna have a long, happy, and romp-filled relationship, then you make me click on multiple spoilers. On April 21 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote: I've tried to think of a bunch of different scenarios and I've not yet managed to picture one where mafia couldn't claim the same situation. The only way a vigi really clears himself is by shooting scum :/ On April 21 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: Holy gonzaw post. Nice ^--- These posts are short and worthless. ^--- this post is actually correct, but interestingly, despite the fact that it's the right time to talk about the game mechanics... you never talk about the game mechanics. You ask some unhelpful questions and echo worthless obvious shit other people have said, but otherwise you're deadweight. Where's your contributions, Marv? Where's the discussion that it is "absolute the right time" to talk about? or do you only have inane questions? ^=== HOLY SHIT this question is bad. holy shit. Of course there's good circumstances to make a vig shot! SHOOT A SCUM GUY. Christ. Even if you shoot a godfather, at least that's a data point (not quite a DT check's worth, because it might hasve been roleblock), and if you shoot a goon, hey, you shot a goon. Are you TRYING to be as unhelpful as possible? Are you TRYING to actively inhibit our blue roles? Surely if so it's through neither quality of prose nor persistence in communicating the ideas contained therein with your miniscule cumuluative post length. Typically this is where I say "you can do better, marv" but really, ANYONE could do better. You're shitting on the town and trying to build up a post count without saying ANYTHING. You're lurking in plain sight. ##vote: marvellosity. -Blazinghand -Blazinghand | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 22 2012 06:11 BlazingJitsu wrote: No problem bro doosk: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=14#270 + Show Spoiler [My Case on Marv] + On April 21 2012 20:13 BlazingJitsu wrote: Marvellosity. Let me talk to you. No correction let me talk AT you. what are you doing this game? Let's look at your filter + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 09:05 marvellosity wrote: Mattchew, I thought we were gonna have a long, happy, and romp-filled relationship, then you make me click on multiple spoilers. On April 21 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote: I've tried to think of a bunch of different scenarios and I've not yet managed to picture one where mafia couldn't claim the same situation. The only way a vigi really clears himself is by shooting scum :/ On April 21 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: Holy gonzaw post. Nice ^--- These posts are short and worthless. ^--- this post is actually correct, but interestingly, despite the fact that it's the right time to talk about the game mechanics... you never talk about the game mechanics. You ask some unhelpful questions and echo worthless obvious shit other people have said, but otherwise you're deadweight. Where's your contributions, Marv? Where's the discussion that it is "absolute the right time" to talk about? or do you only have inane questions? ^=== HOLY SHIT this question is bad. holy shit. Of course there's good circumstances to make a vig shot! SHOOT A SCUM GUY. Christ. Even if you shoot a godfather, at least that's a data point (not quite a DT check's worth, because it might hasve been roleblock), and if you shoot a goon, hey, you shot a goon. Are you TRYING to be as unhelpful as possible? Are you TRYING to actively inhibit our blue roles? Surely if so it's through neither quality of prose nor persistence in communicating the ideas contained therein with your miniscule cumuluative post length. Typically this is where I say "you can do better, marv" but really, ANYONE could do better. You're shitting on the town and trying to build up a post count without saying ANYTHING. You're lurking in plain sight. ##vote: marvellosity. -Blazinghand -Blazinghand At least have the courtesy of acknowledging my recent post before regurgitating your previous ones :> | ||
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