Newbie Mini Mafia XXIV - Page 16

Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. I don't think a player who posts like he initially posted would be able to post how he is posting now unless they were trolling. Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. Honestly solar you were posting like you had just come in from a sc2 tournament thread, it was very hard to know what to make of that. IMO you actually caused more harm than if you would have allowed the discussion to remain on policy talk. The first few pages of posting were very chaotic and full of people making baseless accusations set by the tone of how you chose to play the game. Yes, I do think that myself and maybe some other people are able to make reads off the situation you created, but I think that those reads could have come regardless of your trolling.

Now this could just be my earlier suspicions talking as there is no real concrete evidence behind this, but it does seem that this was rather deflective, and if you did have suspicions as scum that those two were masons it would benefit you to try and get them lynched. I do encourage you however to prove me wrong, because as I said before I am not sure about this, its really more a feeling than anything.

As it currently stands I am most suspicious of Arch for his lurking earlier, and the fact that as soon as he was called out on it his first reaction was an ooooh look this guy is scum post. And even with that post I felt that he was off the mark so until Arch or somebody else points out some reason or evidence that makes him look like a townie

On August 15 2012 15:42 Ochrow wrote:
Howdy. Like most of you here, still getting the hang of this especially since this is my first game of forum mafia (sorry Shady no filters or meta for me yet). What little experience I do have is from playing live with some TL friends of mine, and one trend that I remember a lot from that was that scum had a stronger tendency towards the deflection/OMGUS style of play. And so along the same line of though Solar does seem a bit scummy to me. I see what a few people, particularly Shady, have been saying about his first post and that seems logical to me, but more than that is his persistence with just the general "why are you attacking me attack him/her" stuff that makes me suspicious. So while I don't feel strongly enough to vote I do want to just throw it out there that Solar you should really try to focus on changing your attitude and respond to questions rather than just be sarcastic and/or deflecting.

On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded.

On Solar:
As I originally said I felt that his play was not at all pro-town but, assuming he is telling the truth about the acting and that he didn't just pull it out of his ass, he has really turned around and is very much giving off a townie feel.

On YH:
So far I haven't really been able to get much of a read on him. While he was posting one-liners at the beginning, as he said he was actually able to get his point across in them, granted that his point wasn't always a great one to get across (ie Oh I have a secret read but I'm not sharing it). But since his explanation, which to me seems to be entirely understandable, he too is giving off a town feel.

As for any reads I have, in most of the games I've played there has been at least one scum that was just purely a lurker, and as such I get a bit of a scum feeling from Archrun. He has only three posts all only a few sentences, long enough to not be pointed out as one-liners but only just. I guess I also get suspicious of any first post that just focuses on O hai thar I'm a townie yay killing scum. While I know everybody is trying to prove themselves as town I just get bad feelings when the substance of somebody's post is:



On top of that in his three posts he doesn't get into what he thinks about who might be scum but is just theorizing or throwing out a soft defense. I may be totally off on here but until he posts a bit more or contributes something of substance I am going to throw out ##FoS Archrun

As per Solar's question I hope this helps, and if there was any curiosity about the reasoning behind my general consensus post, it seemed like a lot of people were in more or less violent agreement over the Solar issue so I wanted to throw out my understanding of events in the hope that it might lead to shorter and/or fewer posts beating that dead horse.

On August 16 2012 19:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
I did some fact checking, and I was able to find the posts between solar and jhuyt that solar mentioned earlier. They happened in the My Little Pony thread on April 4th 2012.

On August 16 2012 19:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
Shady, did you read my post about JHyut's claim?



My suspicion of Archrun was independent of Ochrow's orignal post. When I began focusing on Archrun, there were 4 people who had posted 4 times or less. I checked each of their filters and Archrun was the only one who had not given an opinion on anything concerning scum reads or even suspicions of scum. His posts contained the least amount of useful information so he seemed like the 1st lurker I needed to pressure. I even posted this reasoning when I originally called him out the first time.

As for your claims that ochrow and I are scum working together.....well I have no defense to that. If I am town, that is not a falsifiable accusation.

Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me? Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again:

+ Show Spoiler +

I didnt not bold anything just now. I clearly stated that I knew that if there wasn't an SK then it would be a waste our time worrying about one. In fact the whole point of that post was to ask if anyone had any previous experience in a game that had SKs, and if they had any advice on how to approach the issue, or if to even approach it at all.

On August 16 2012 07:11 thrawn2112 wrote:


FOS Archrun

Archrun, you have made 3 posts so far and none of them have had anything directly to do with scumhunting.

Can you tell us what you think about shady's claims concerning solar, myself, and newharry?

My suspicion of Archrun was independent of Ochrow's orignal post.

Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me? Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again:

On August 15 2012 15:18 Golbat wrote:

So far, I think that the scummiest person i've seen is thrawn. He's not really said much of substance, which is of course understandable being so early in the game, but his fixation on making sure people know there could be an SK in the game is a little bit strange.

Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.

... However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:



And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.

On August 16 2012 19:42 Shady Sands wrote:
I am going to say this again very clearly:

## Vote Thrawn2112, ## FoS Ochrow

Everyone just do it.

On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:


I read it, and it doesn't matter to the case on you.

On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:But the issue with Archrun is you didn't compare him at all to the other lurkers. Nope. You just went ahead and joined in on Ochrow's accusation of Archrun without even offering any of your own analysis to back it up. Who were those other 3 people who had posted 4 times or less? Can you tell me who you checked?

On August 16 2012 09:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
I still want to hear what archrun thinks about solar as well some other accusations such as the one against yourharry. He has only made 3 posts so far, and one of them was about policy, and the other two were about the SK question I asked at the beginning of the game. So far I've yet to hear any opinion from archrun about anything relevant.

On August 16 2012 10:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am focusing on Archrun because none of the other scum reads have had very much merit. He is the person who has given the smallest amount of opinion on anything, which means that up until he does it will be impossible to get a scum read on him. I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything. This makes him the most suspicious player out of all the lurkers. All I am doing is asking him to post more, and to share his opinions on what has happened so far. Of course I agree that focusing on scum reads is more important than focusing on who has posted the least, but when, as goodkarma said, the conversation is only happening between a handful of people scum reading is difficult.

On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:And of course you can't defend yourself from the blatant double-teaming you and Ochrow are doing. Anyone who has been in the thread in the past day can tell.

On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:Finally, on your SK post, why would you make a post that you knew to be a complete waste of time? Answer: scum who needs to look busy... or look cute by feigning ignorance as to whether there is an SK or not (when such information is available on in the OP to this thread.)

On August 16 2012 20:24 goodkarma wrote:


My response to this can be summarized in one word:
NO.

The absolute last thing we need is for everyone to sheep onto a candidate. Everyone who hasn't voted needs to clearly spell out their scum suspects and their reasoning for voting for who they do. Our reasoning for our lynch candidates is just as important (if not more) than who we choose on day one.

Sheeping leads to two scenarios:

What information do we get on everyone's motivations if we mislynch? Pretty much nothing... Well, everyone voted for this one person because they were told to. It pretty much leads to day two turning into an extended day one. The vote will have meant pretty much nothing, since everyone blindly ganged up on the wrong candidate...

If we lynch a scum, then great. Everyone celebrates and forgets how bad sheeping is. But it's just not worth it. Part of day one is encouraging a good town atmosphere, and sheeping is never a part of that.

If you're going to try to position yourself as a town leader, then this is not the way to do it. I'd go so far as to give you a "light":

##FoS: Shady Sands

Encouraging sheeping is very anti-town. From a town perspective, I think it's very plausible you're a little overexcited about your findings on Thrawn, and what you perceive to be a sure scum day one lynch, and that's why I'd call it a "light FoS." Honestly, though, this post was alarming to me, and looks like a great way to herd town behind a scum agenda.

On August 16 2012 20:56 Shady Sands wrote:


Got it. In no way should you interpret my post as telling people to stop thinking for themselves and just follow me.

That being said, though, what do you think of the cases on Thrawn and Ochrow?

Of course I agree that focusing on scum reads is more important than focusing on who has posted the least, but when, as goodkarma said, the conversation is only happening between a handful of people scum reading is difficult.

On August 16 2012 07:11 thrawn2112 wrote:


FOS Archrun

Archrun, you have made 3 posts so far and none of them have had anything directly to do with scumhunting.

Can you tell us what you think about shady's claims concerning solar, myself, and newharry?

On August 16 2012 10:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am focusing on Archrun because none of the other scum reads have had very much merit. He is the person who has given the smallest amount of opinion on anything, which means that up until he does it will be impossible to get a scum read on him. I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything. This makes him the most suspicious player out of all the lurkers. All I am doing is asking him to post more, and to share his opinions on what has happened so far. Of course I agree that focusing on scum reads is more important than focusing on who has posted the least, but when, as goodkarma said, the conversation is only happening between a handful of people scum reading is difficult.

I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything.

On August 16 2012 21:16 Shady Sands wrote:Finally, why did you just not even bother to respond to Solar's mega post fingering you as the scummiest reaction to his trolling?

On August 16 2012 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote:


Point 1: You were suspicious of me defending you, but not of jhuyt for defending you? Looking back on what Jhuyt and i said about you, I was the one who expressed more suspicion of you. Yes, I did say that your behavior could be explained by you being town but playing extremely, extremely poorly. What you said is that your first few posts were troll posts, and that is correct if you are town or scum. Both what I said and what you claimed are both along the lines of "solar's first posts are town posts, but they are very unorthodox town posts." This is not dissimilar to things many others said. I also said that because of your posting style I was definitely most suspicious of you at that point in time, just for the reason of it being an odd posting style. Yet you claim that I was a target for being more defensive of you when I clearly said I was suspicious of you while jhyut did not? When you came clean about your troll posts, I as well as the majority vocal opinion at that time believed you. Now that I think back on it, I am not convinced that your early game facade is pro-town behavior. You say you wanted to get discussion going and to get reactions from players, and while that did happen, everyone became sidetracked on the argument between you and shady. That eventually gave way to a few other arguments that were either decided to be weak reads, or the outcome is still very ambiguous.

1: Why would a town player troll his first few posts? You say it is to generate discussion and make reads on people, but these are reads that (if you are town) only you will be able to make unless you can convince everyone else to believe you.

2: Why would a scum troll his first few posts? The answer to that has been made clearly obvious by the first 24 hrs worth of posts in this thread. What you did, regardless of it being pro town or anti town, in my opinion ended up having an anti town effect. If something has an anti-town effect, the easiest and simplest solution is that it was directed by someone who has anti-town motives.

Point 2: That would be an acceptable answer, except that there is absolutely a 0% chance of anyone being able to fact check it. I'm still trying to figure out if there is any reasonable way for me to decide whether or not you're telling the truth about you and jhuyt's past.

I am not yet suspicious of you being scum, mostly because of the strong pro-town vibe I initially got from reading your post-troll posts, but I do think that there are some holes in your arguments which I would like you to explain.