Newbie Mini Mafia XXIV - Page 17

On August 16 2012 19:32 Shady Sands wrote:
Okay, I just posted and I immediately saw Ochrow and Thrawn both trying to get a train on Archrun going (both posting within 30 minutes of each other.) This just reconfirms my theory:

Ochrow and Thrawn are, at the very least, working together, and given how Thrawn's been so WIFOMy and sheepy for the game, I'd reckon they are not masons but scum.

On August 16 2012 11:47 YourHarry wrote:
If I am scum and knew that they were green, you could accept my sudden change in my point of view regarding Solar's alignment. Would scum Harry decide to compromise what seems to be a semi-promising mislynch in Solar (assuming Solar is not Harry's scum partner) to risk being suspected, by trying to protect who scum Harry thought was a mason? Then continue to sacrifice being suspicious by not revealing his initial read even despite continuous pressure, until it became obvious that Harry was wrong about his mason reads?

Or is this more likely the course of action from a town Harry?

On August 16 2012 13:47 YourHarry wrote:
actually, upon re-evaluation, I can accept the possibility that GK was indeed not sure about Solar's alignment but was indeed worried that we may tunnel on a player that he somehow thought was a town. Still, the alternative is also possible. It could have been a scum slip that GK is now fabricating the explanations for. Either way, since this is WIFOM, I want to partially retract my case against GK.

On August 17 2012 00:00 thrawn2112 wrote:


Just to show you how absurd of an argument this is, I'd like to point something out. You said that you saw both ochrow and I, within 30 minutes of each other were "trying to get a train on archrun going." Well, you and Archrun both voted against me within 3 minutes. If I use the reasoning you used to link me with ochrow as both scum, I must also link you with Archrun as scum.

Really shady, your arguments against me have been quite a stretch, and over and over you have ignored my responses to your accusations. I do not think that if you are thoroughly reading my posts that you would still have the belief that I am scum. I will go over our conversation and try to figure out if I have been unclear in my responses to you, and I urge you to go through the conversation to see if you might have missed out on what I was trying to say. If we can't figure this out, then my only options are to think that you are scum and trying to set me up, or that you are town and making weak reads and terrible arguments. I think it is the former so I am going to vote for you. If it is the latter, I won't feel TOO bad about lynching a town player who makes bad arguments.

Whatever happened to your campaign to get everyone posting their previous game filters? Based on what you have done since demanding filters from everyone, I don't see a pro-town motive for your request. Your reasoning in asking for them was that having filters can be very useful in getting reads on people's posts that are made in specific circumstances, such as what a player usually acts like when accused of being scum. After asking for everyone's filters, you haven't even brought the subject back up. What was the point of asking in the first place if you are not going to follow through with analysis? If you wanted to view the filters for your own sole benefit, it would have been way easier for you to just find the filters yourself. If you wanted the group to view the filters so that the town can make better reads, then why haven't you provided any analysis of a player's posting within this game to their posting within previous games? I can't figure out why you asked from them in the first place, which leads me to the conclusion that your filter requests were fluff.

##Vote Shady Sands

I find filters a good way to figure out how people react to the stress of either being rightfully or wrongfully accused. For example, I tend to look at how someone responds when they're scum and they're being pressured, to then figure out better and more efficient ways to tunnel them and trap them. I think that every townie needs to have this sort of information on all other townies, in order to make this thread as stressful and difficult a place for scum to post as possible.

On August 16 2012 19:42 Shady Sands wrote:
I am going to say this again very clearly:

## Vote Thrawn2112, ## FoS Ochrow

Everyone just do it.

On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:

But the issue with Archrun is you didn't compare him at all to the other lurkers. Nope. You just went ahead and joined in on Ochrow's accusation of Archrun without even offering any of your own analysis to back it up. Who were those other 3 people who had posted 4 times or less? Can you tell me who you checked?

And of course you can't defend yourself from the blatant double-teaming you and Ochrow are doing. Anyone who has been in the thread in the past day can tell.

There's essentially no way to verify the truth of this statement if only him and Solar can attest to it. I want to hear a clearer read between Solar and JHuyt, specifically why Solar believes JHuyt to be innocent and not worth a lurker lynch.

--JHuyt: Still haven't responded, so my original case on him still stands. Strong FoS, and if he continues to lurk I may consider changing my vote to him to guarantee a no-lynch.

Right now though, my top lynch target is Thrawn. From the first massively WIFOM Serial Killer post, to the WIFOM on Policy, YH, and Solarsail, to his soft defense of Ochrow against Z-Boson--all of this smells extremely scummy. Scum have to look like they're active, scum have to stay alive, and scum have to help each other. Thrawn's posting behavior fits all three motives to a T.

Lynch Thrawn.

On August 17 2012 01:05 DarthPunk wrote:
still trawling through the thread. It seems to be a lot more difficult to read than XXII.





Yeah shady. Any Town Cred you had just went flying out the window. To be honest I am having trouble following the narrative of the thread right now (perhaps I am just tired.) but this is a very anti-town post.

Your case on thrawn2112 was OK. But attempting to stifle any further discussion and demanding everyone to sheep your reads (which is ironic because this is one of the things you are accusing these people of doing.) Is just flat out ridiculous.

I want some clarity on what your case is.

But the crux of the matter is this correct?


You may have already clarified your case and I have not yet got to it. If so could you just make a brief summary of your case.

On August 15 2012 20:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
I also put a FoS on yourharry.



It was this post that most confused me out of all of harry's.



After re-reading this thread, the 'right ball park' comment immediately caused me to start suspecting harry. It just doesnt seem like something somebody who is town would want to say. It looks like you are trying hint at something without ever saying it, but wouldn't a town player assume that any hints they drop intended for town players might also be picked up on by scum? What ball park are we talking about and why did you say mkfuba's question was a good question?







These posts struck me as a little strange. YH is showing an eagerness, in fact the most eagerness out of anyone, to push a conclusion towards whatever reads (of solar and myself) have been presented, reads which so far people have found weak and/or unsubstantiated.

On August 16 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
Concerning the YH topic:

3 possibilities immediately come to mind:

One, that YH is being honest about him thinking that solar and gk are masons. That will explain basically all of his scummy sounding posting earlier in the game. Two, that he and solar are masons. This would explain his strong conviction that solar is town, and could also explain why he posted like he had information to hide. Three, YH and solar, or maybe just YH is scum. This would also account for the cryptic way he was posting. The only part that I'm having trouble with, is that 4 minutes after voting for me for being suspicious of shady, he unvoted me and changed his vote to solar. 21 minutes later is when according to him, he came up with his 'solar as mason' theory and unvoted again. So if YH is scum and solar is scum, why would YH ever vote for solar in the first place? It could be a sneaky manipulation but i doubt that is the case. This makes me believe that no, YH and solar cannot BOTH be scum. YH's quick changing of votes is what I'm currently looking at to see if I can make any reads as far as YH is concerned.

At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum.

mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not?

On August 16 2012 11:07 DarthPunk wrote:
Re-reading the thread something Thrawn stated seemed incredibly suspicious.



Why are you actively trying to prove that someone is a town? rather than find the scum? what possible town motivation is behind this?

It seems to me like you are trying to convince the one person at that time whom had still expressed doubts on Your harry's alignment to believe that he was town and not scum. This is not pro-town activity. Spending time trying to convince a particular person of a players green status day one is scum behaviour.

On August 16 2012 11:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
@darthpunk
Also it seems to me that confirming somebody is town isn't a waste of time, it will give you new information yo0D

So my case on you is ill have a narrower list of who potential scum could be. While it isn't the most important part of the game it isn't useless like you have described.

On August 16 2012 13:00 YourHarry wrote:

Establishing someone as confirmed townie is actually very advantageous for town. Masons, for example, are nothing but confirmed townies to each other and can be very powerful, especially in the late game. It is also another reason why scums prefer to NK confirmed townies.

But, of course, it is difficult to establish to 100% confirm townies, just like it is difficult to establish confirmed scums. So I agree that, in the beginning of the game, we should focus more on establishing scum read. But if obvious town read sticks out, we should share it with others. It is scum motivation to do the opposite - to limit as many town reads as possible.

Here's the summary of the Thrawn case:
1) Lots of soft-defenses of multiple players through the first half of D1
2) Jumping on the Archrun train with poor justification ("non-contributing lurker")
3) Chainsawing a neutral player (Z-Boson) for attacking the player who he used to justify the Archrun FoS (Ochrow)
4) Continuing to FoS Archrun even after he posted content, sheeping Ochrow, the same player who he was defending against Z-Boson
5) Coordinating *all* his reads with Ochrow (including the ones on YH and Solar, the two other contentious players in the game)
6) Threatening to OMGUS lynch me if I don't reread his defense and reconsider my accusations against him (based off the exact opposite justifications that he used to accuse Archrun)
7) OMGUS voting me anyhow

On August 17 2012 00:00 thrawn2112 wrote:

Whatever happened to your campaign to get everyone posting their previous game filters? Based on what you have done since demanding filters from everyone, I don't see a pro-town motive for your request. Your reasoning in asking for them was that having filters can be very useful in getting reads on people's posts that are made in specific circumstances, such as what a player usually acts like when accused of being scum. After asking for everyone's filters, you haven't even brought the subject back up. What was the point of asking in the first place if you are not going to follow through with analysis? If you wanted to view the filters for your own sole benefit, it would have been way easier for you to just find the filters yourself. If you wanted the group to view the filters so that the town can make better reads, then why haven't you provided any analysis of a player's posting within this game to their posting within previous games? I can't figure out why you asked from them in the first place, which leads me to the conclusion that your filter requests were fluff.

##Vote Shady Sands