vivax mind explaining why you checked bugs out of all people?

If I remember correctly at that point in time something like FT / Toad / Yamato / chez was supposed to be team mafia according to you, wasn't it ?

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

January 27 2013 16:51 GMT

#3082

I'm just going to say it now. Vivax was the scum read I mentioned yesterday. It requires a few things to fall into place to be possible, but if it's possible then I find it probable. I really don't see Vivax as a town player anymore. I think you'll see why I wanted (needed, really) scum flips before posting it, but I really don't feel like waiting anymore.

What makes me believe it's possible is that scum weren't given specific roles. They were able to hand them out to whoever, as long as it was before the end of D1. Who is someone that many people were absolutely convinced was town D1, but is now showing significant anti-town signs? Vivax.

I have yet to complete his filter (it is so very, very long) but there are a few things that I believe could indicate a scum Vivax.

Too much concern with who thinks he is town (this was centered around D1, when scum were choosing who would fill what role)
The existence of two DTs (This is one of the most important aspects, and the reason I wanted to wait for flips to discover if the godfather was someone else. Disregard for now, but remember it for later)
His insistence that the top townies in the game are scum. If he is scum, he is going to have to take down all the rest. Particularly FT, and he must do so quickly.
Emphasizing his towniness, even when what he's doing is anti-town, and the scumminess of others even when what they're doing is null at best
His reasonably useless N2 check, as well as the ridiculous hoops we had to jump through to get him to disclose it. What did we gain from what he said? What did our yamato reads, as well as our inferences about Vivax's undisclosed night check tell him? Why is moscta scum based on speculation regarding someone that Vivax hasn't investigated?
His checks so far included one scum, which made many believe he was DT, and then a dead townie. If he is scum, he hasn't had to show any evidence of having DT powers.
Vivax appears to have more scum reads than there are scum left in the game. This isn't just a pool of possible scum, he seems genuinely convinced. Who needs reasons to find the rest of the players in the game scummy?

I'm sure there's more. You can see why I wanted to wait for a scum flip (hopefully two, tonight) to reveal what I was thinking. It still feels like my acme case in that there's a significant bit of speculation involved, but much of that speculation goes away when scum flips. This one feels more legitimate. I don't believe I've overstepped the bounds of reason or am satisfying a confirmation bias. As I said earlier, if it is possible, I believe it is probable.

Since Vivax isn't likely to be lynched based on what I have now, I'm keeping my votes on BKE and Chezinu. Sorry annul, but I'm only voting for people I think are scum, and right now that list only contains BKE, Chezinu, and Vivax. It also just so happens that when the first two flip they might confirm/deny the third. I might find another possible alternative as I go through more filters, but this is where I stand at the moment. I'll look into mocsta, just because I felt that his mason discussion with you as well as the posts to yourself and Adam were antagonistic, but I felt townie about him for most of the game, and I think my filterdive will reaffirm that.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 27 2013 16:53 GMT

#3083

I mean it's kind of weird that I told people to protect Bugs, our DT.

You had reads that completly disagreed with everything someone said.
You're supposed to have had a red check on gonzaw.
You tell people not to protect Bugs, our unclaimed DT and mafia ends up killing him.
And on top of that you also check him.

That sounds kind of convenient, doesn't it? I mean what are the chances for that happening?

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

January 27 2013 16:58 GMT

#3084

On January 27 2013 23:14 Vivax wrote:
Nono wait:

I said before I got a red check back.

Now Mocsta comes in and says that he assumes I got a green check back from checking yamato.

How the fuck does that makes sense?
Mocsta is scum.

You didn't say you got a red check. You said we were lynching your target today. There is a significant difference.

Both of those posts are lies.

Vivax

22296 Posts

January 27 2013 17:01 GMT

#3085

Wow really? They are lies? Oh shit, dude. You got me.

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 27 2013 17:02 GMT

#3086

Vivax, why don't you answer Toad's question?

Vivax

22296 Posts

January 27 2013 17:04 GMT

#3087

Reciprocity

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 27 2013 17:05 GMT

#3088

If you're town, now is the time to start showing it.

You never explained what made you check gonzaw, and now you're not explaining why you checked bugs, someone you never suggested was mafia, someone who pointed me towards prplhz, and someone who tried to get me off my Oats tunnel and on to gonzaw instead.

Please explain to town why you chose to check bugs last night.

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

January 27 2013 17:06 GMT

#3089

Oh, and since I've posted at least one scumread, I'm allowing myself to defend... myself.

I think those voting for me are looking at this the wrong way. Did you think my grand scum plan was to passively lynch all of my scummates without gaining any towncred for it? You're right in that I was "blendy". Town has lynched only scum so far. I am town.

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

January 27 2013 17:07 GMT

#3090

On January 28 2013 02:01 Vivax wrote:
Wow really? They are lies? Oh shit, dude. You got me.

So you admit to voting moscta based on a lie? That's almost all the proof I need.

Vivax

22296 Posts

January 27 2013 17:13 GMT

#3091

On January 28 2013 02:07 mkfuba07 wrote:

Show nested quote +

So you admit to voting moscta based on a lie? That's almost all the proof I need.

Yea. I lied so that town to attract to attention to me initially.

Then I used that lie to build a fake case on Mocsta so that people would suspect him to be town and me to be dumb, when it was clear that it worked, I made the great revelation so that people would know I lied.

I obviously said I checked the dead guy so everyone would believe it and not ask me questions afterwards.

Shit, fuba, I never ever thought you would uncover such a nasty and well thought out scum powerplay. I am amazed by your deduction skills. Magnifique, truly magnifique.

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 27 2013 17:23 GMT

#3092

Vivax, please answer this, thank you.

On January 28 2013 02:05 FiveTouch wrote:
If you're town, now is the time to start showing it.

You never explained what made you check gonzaw, and now you're not explaining why you checked bugs, someone you never suggested was mafia, someone who pointed me towards prplhz, and someone who tried to get me off my Oats tunnel and on to gonzaw instead.

Please explain to town why you chose to check bugs last night.

Vivax

22296 Posts

January 27 2013 17:27 GMT

#3093

I gave my keyboard a headbutt and the first two letters said "bu"

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 27 2013 17:31 GMT

#3094

I don't understand this attitude if you are town, so for now I am going to assume you are mafia.

debears

United States2516 Posts

January 27 2013 17:40 GMT

#3095

On January 28 2013 02:31 FiveTouch wrote:
I don't understand this attitude if you are town, so for now I am going to assume you are mafia.

Well then games likely over!!! Yay!!!

yamato77

11589 Posts

January 27 2013 17:45 GMT

#3096

After nearly 24 hours of not even looking at the tread, I come back and find Vivax doing the same shit he's been doing all game, with even less justification than he's had before.

I am all for policy lynching him tomorrow. This is not how you play this game.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 27 2013 18:04 GMT

#3097

yeah we lynch vivax tomorrow if at least one of BKE / chez flips red. He could be doing a power play for mafia after all...

No explanation on gonzaw check when everyone thought he is town d1+n1 and everyone realized gonzaw is looking bad once the nighthits came him. No explanation was needed and Vivax didn't understand the situation. Vivax apparently thought gonzaw is mafia although he never explained a thing about gonzaw.
No explanation on his bugs check and why he picked him although bugs was literally mod confirmed at that time and on top of that our DT. He might have picked just picked it up when I kept answering instead of just ignoring him and Annul (remember how those two kept telling me to out Bugs as DT + the other guy?). My bad for talking about that instead of just ignoring people but there's no reason to ask me to out a blue whatsoever.
He keeps on stalling people like he did with his check d2 and he did it this cycle again instead of just giving us something so we know where we're at.

It could have very well been a bus on gonzaw and the check on bugs is still incredibly convenient, isn't it? There was 1 guy who died, a single guy out of 1951961169 people who doesn't provide ANY kind of information and Vivax conventiently choose him.
I'd rather take a look at wether he's mafia before lynching into slight townreads that just aren't confirmed yet like Yamato / whoever else.

On top of that he is supposed to be a DT while we already saw Bugs flip DT and I know more blue roles. It does look strange.

yamato77

11589 Posts

January 27 2013 18:18 GMT

#3098

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Toad.

Stutters695

2610 Posts

January 27 2013 18:44 GMT

#3099

Should we double lynch to get rid of another scummy person to get more out of the day out is the second double lynch better saved for late game if we get that far?

yamato77

11589 Posts

January 27 2013 18:47 GMT

#3100

If we double hit mafia today a double lynch is unneeded.

We can vote for another tomorrow if we need to.