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On January 29 2014 06:10 Laertes wrote:
TB can you try and push for Starbow to be played alongside SC2? I think it would be really interesting if they were to coexist and people would go for it being a true of test of starcraft skills in general for someone to play both Starbow and HotS.
EDIT: I'm afraid that Starbow is going to not draw enough attention unless pros play the mod and pros won't play on the mod unless it gets popular enough. The dust is clearing and though people will tune into star bow they won't play it. We need to get the attention of people who have left the game.
Well ~700 people watching an ESL with no prize pool and unknown players is pretty good by itself relatively speaking. If someone was to do 1k+ prize pool I think we'd start to see pretty big numbers in viewership.
Players are probably just waiting for ladder and a website tbh . . . you can't underestimate how important matchmaking is in a 1v1 game like this. It's not like most arcade games where you just jump in for funsies... this is more a serious RTS where many of the people who play want to measure themselves and their progress.
I think we'll see a big increase in players when/if ladder is implemented.
Edit: Kind of like what Lorch just said below
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I can tell you guys that I will keep playing regular sc2 until there is some form of ladder/ranking system. I play starcraft 99% to compete and I feel like most people who would be interested in this game feel the same way.
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Oh nice, a Zerg won the ESL starbow tour?
Also agree with Lorch. A ladder is basically the most important thing, even more important than a website. Always disliked in BW that the ladder wasn't functional (or full of cheaters). Iccup was good though.
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Last night on NA, there was some sort of error that occurred and it kicked everyone out of the Starbow channel. So a lot of the normal idlers aren't there.
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On January 29 2014 06:35 HolydaKing wrote:
Oh nice, a Zerg won the ESL starbow tour?
Coldfront (Zerg) won, yep. Also interesting to note that all of the Terrans I saw went bio against Zerg in this tourney
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On January 29 2014 06:37 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 06:35 HolydaKing wrote:
Oh nice, a Zerg won the ESL starbow tour? Coldfront (Zerg) won, yep. Also interesting to note that all of the Terrans I saw went bio against Zerg in this tourney
That's pretty standard for BW, isn't it? And Starbow is fairly close to BW.
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On January 29 2014 06:38 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 06:37 SCST wrote:On January 29 2014 06:35 HolydaKing wrote:
Oh nice, a Zerg won the ESL starbow tour? Coldfront (Zerg) won, yep. Also interesting to note that all of the Terrans I saw went bio against Zerg in this tourney That's pretty standard for BW, isn't it? And Starbow is fairly close to BW.
Well I've watched almost every pro-player / semi-pro-player vod that is available for Starbow (probably around 60 games thus far) and I think something like ~90% of Terran's go mech against Zerg. I can't remember, but I think MMA or Innovation went bio at one point and won. Otherwise it's been almost exclusively mech.
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Please don't switch to the new unit pathing that Beastyqt testing right now 
Edit: Bio would be so good that so much of the game would have to change around it. And I play as Terran..
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If you want to stop idle spread from accidentally killing units, make it so that using the hold command to stop an army stops them from doing it.
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Poland3759 Posts
On January 28 2014 00:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 00:47 nimdil wrote:On January 28 2014 00:39 ExO_ wrote:
How is the science vessels strength in starbow different from that in BW? Other than smart cast, how is it suddenly game breaking?
Why the nerf? what part of it is too strong in starbow, that isn't too strong in BW? Isn't smartcasting enough of a game changer? Also I think units in StarBow still clamp more than in Brood War - I believe deClumping occurs while standing still but not during walking so if you irridiate a group of hydras, you achieve more than in Brood War. Speculating. You can't fix an smartcast ability that does a specific amount of Damage over a certain period of time by nerfing the damage. Regardless of all the important reasons for having it be more than 90 damage (lurker and ultra HP for a start) making it do less DPS is silly. If it's really gotta be nerfed to 90 damage, reducing the duration of the ability is better than reducing the damage while keeping the time its irradiated the same. Smartcast is an issue in the sense that it makes the ability much easier to use. But changing the function of a unit b/c of smart cast is really silly. And the muta clumping thing should not be a reason to nerf irrad at all, do you realize how hard it is to deal with mutas without irradiate and without valk? Turrets and marines lose effectiveness as the muta flock grows to huge numbers. Eliminate the options of dealing with them, and you're going to be dealing with zergs making huge muta flocks non stop. Will we nerf muta damage then? Or HP? idk, this entire thing seems like too much in my opinion.
But irra on science vessel + vikings should do quite fine - remember Vikings do splash damage.
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4713 Posts
On January 29 2014 04:07 Aldaris_ wrote:
Why siege tank have a higher cooldown than broodwar ?
It should be at 3.125 or something like that , actually , it's 4.53
Because SC2 fastest speed is 40% faster then normal time, so they had to adjust all attack speeds to be slower in order to compensate for this. The actual result of a 4.53 attack speed in game is very much closer to BW then SC2.
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On January 29 2014 07:26 Survivor61316 wrote:Please don't switch to the new unit pathing that Beastyqt testing right now Edit: Bio would be so good that so much of the game would have to change around it. And I play as Terran..
Did Beastyqt try AnteZ's pathfinding system? What were the results?
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Lol noticed in a game that units that the player is not paying attention to and are being repaired try to autospread away from the scv's, slowing down the repair. Mods should probably fix that.
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On January 29 2014 06:37 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 06:35 HolydaKing wrote:
Oh nice, a Zerg won the ESL starbow tour? Coldfront (Zerg) won, yep. Also interesting to note that all of the Terrans I saw went bio against Zerg in this tourney
Hm, are there any VODs from the last ESL? I didn't watch it and would like to see how Coldfront played it, he had some nice ideas.
On January 29 2014 08:56 Zhadez10 wrote:
Lol noticed in a game that units that the player is not paying attention to and are being repaired try to autospread away from the scv's, slowing down the repair. Mods should probably fix that.
Why, it was like that in BW, no? 
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there arnt enough high lvl players that play starbow t_t
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On January 29 2014 11:06 TT1 wrote:
there arnt enough high lvl players that play starbow t_t
Maybe because there are few high level players in general? :p
But yeah without joking i can see how that is a problem, specially in this early phase of the game.
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Patch
Bug fixes:
+ Show Spoiler + - Plague no longer kills air units affected by Devourers Acid Spores.
- Scourges attack damage is now reduced by enemy air units armor.
- Spider mines now deal damage in a proper AoE radius to light, medium and armored units. (Was broken vs medium units earlier)
Balance changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Reaver unload duration time lowered from 2.25 sec to 1.5 sec. (Time before it is able to shoot when unloaded.)
- Null ward damage changed from x2 vs shields, to 1,5x vs shield.
- Manual detonation range of Null wards lowered from 7.5 to 4.5
- Upgraded Nexus starting energy lowered from 50 to 25.
- Mutalisks clumping adjusted so they spread out a little bit more
- Marauder more microable.
- Irradiate damage reverted from 120 over 20 sec to 180 damage over 30 sec.
Explanation for changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Chrono boost, Overcharge and Inject so far seem decently balanced over the course of a game. (But we constantly keep an eye on this.) Chrono boost is however the strongest macro mechanic early on, which gives P a fast macro lead in PvZ and PvT. Upgraded Nexus with starting energy 25 intends to even out the strength of the macro mechanics at the early game.
We are happy to see Sentinels being used in many match-ups. It seems to require much micro from both players when a Sentinel harasses with the use of Null wards. But in PvP, those combats tend to be less micro intensive, because Null wards currently one-shot Probes. (It takes three shots to kill a SCV or Drone.) By lowering Null wards damage vs shield, it now takes two Null wards to kill a Probe. Hopefully will Sentinels still remain as a strong harassment and map control option vs Protoss, but will now lead to more fun micro situations in PvP.
Null wards with manual activation range 7.5 was able to outrange almost all units in the game. Only Goliaths with the range upgrade were able to destroy Null wards from a distance, without fear of being hit.
Irradiate got reverted to its original values. It is indeed a crucial component for the balance of TvZ, and we did not compensate Terran enough in other ways. We would however enjoy seeing other lategame styles being viable in TvZ, apart from mass Vessels, and we will look more into this in the future instead.
Regarding the future work of Starbow:
+ Show Spoiler +We will not patch the game with balance or design changes for a while now. Instead will we upload a Starbow test map. In it will we try out new design ideas, different balance values and other types of changes we think can contribute to a better gameplay. After all, Starbow is still in beta and some units/abilities feel undeveloped. Later on will we incorporate ideas from the test map into the real Starbow maps.We recommend all of you who are interested in following/contributing to the development of Starbow to play on the test map and give feedback to us.
The first version of the test map will probably be uploaded during the weekend, and we will keep you all updated on it both here in the thread and via our Twitter @StarbowMod.
Ps. Starbow is now uploaded on SEA.
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Can you be more specific with the marauder? What makes it more microable?
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On January 29 2014 13:08 Kabel wrote:PatchBug fixes:+ Show Spoiler + - Plague no longer kills air units affected by Devourers Acid Spores.
- Scourges attack damage is now reduced by enemy air units armor.
- Reaver unload duration time lowered from 2.25 sec to 1.5 sec. (Time before it is able to shoot when unloaded.)
- Null ward damage changed from x2 vs shields, to 1,5x vs shield.
- Manual detonation range of Null wards lowered from 7.5 to 4.5
- Upgraded Nexus starting energy lowered from 50 to 25.
- Mutalisks clumping adjusted so they spread out a little bit more
- Marauder more microable.
- Irradiate damage reverted from 120 over 20 sec to 180 damage over 30 sec.
Chrono boost, Overcharge and Inject so far seem decently balanced over the course of a game. (But we constantly keep an eye on this.) Chrono boost is however the strongest macro mechanic early on, which gives P a fast macro lead in PvZ and PvT. Upgraded Nexus with starting energy 25 intends to even out the strength of the macro mechanics at the early game.
We are happy to see Sentinels being used in many match-ups. It seems to require much micro from both players when a Sentinel harasses with the use of Null wards. But in PvP, those combats tend to be less micro intensive, because Null wards currently one-shot Probes. (It takes three shots to kill a SCV or Drone.) By lowering Null wards damage vs shield, it now takes two Null wards to kill a Probe. Hopefully will Sentinels still remain as a strong harassment and map control option vs Protoss, but will now lead to more fun micro situations in PvP.
Null wards with manual activation range 7.5 was able to outrange almost all units in the game. Only Goliaths with the range upgrade were able to destroy Null wards from a distance, without fear of being hit.
Irradiate got reverted to its original values. It is indeed a crucial component for the balance of TvZ, and we did not compensate Terran enough in other ways. We would however enjoy seeing other lategame styles being viable in TvZ, apart from mass Vessels, and we will look more into this in the future instead.
Regarding the future work of Starbow:+ Show Spoiler +We will not patch the game with balance or design changes for a while now. Instead will we upload a Starbow test map. In it will we try out new design ideas, different balance values and other types of changes we think can contribute to a better gameplay. After all, Starbow is still in beta and some units/abilities feel undeveloped. Later on will we incorporate ideas from the test map into the real Starbow maps.We recommend all of you who are interested in following/contributing to the development of Starbow to play on the test map and give feedback to us.
The first version of the test map will probably be uploaded during the weekend, and we will keep you all updated on it both here in the thread and via our Twitter @StarbowMod. Ps. Starbow is now uploaded on SEA.
Great changes, th anks. Also props on getting Starbow to SEA . . . KR is next I hope!
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On January 29 2014 11:06 TT1 wrote:
there arnt enough high lvl players that play starbow t_t
well maybe because it is fairly new for the scene? just a guess
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EPT
