On October 02 2012 01:38 Mattchew wrote: Keirathi explain to me why you want to lynch ghost
I already did.
On October 01 2012 06:25 Keirathi wrote:
On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote: 3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment?
This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though.
His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI.
if you dont think ghost is an idiot you should try to extract the actual meaning from his posts than to just take them at hastey face value.
He is saying, and I agree with, that your early "case" seemed forced and that you were faking putting in that much effort. You even agree with this when you admitted your case was bad and just meant for discussion.
do you have anything else or is your entire read based on failed reading comprehension?
ghost_403 wrote: Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do.
He didn't say I was faking putting in effort. He said that putting in that much effort early game is not something that a townie would do.
EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case.
this is funny cause you were faking effort and making bullshit up as you admitted
Where did I say I was faking effort and making bullshit up?
I did catch someone as scum for saying "I'm town!" a bunch, and have been paranoid about it ever sense.
And you did start the setup speculation, which I felt wasn't benefitting town.
Both of those things might have been weak points, but they weren't WRONG. They were just weak.
EBWOP: When I said it was a bad case, it was a bad case in that it was never going to get you lynched. Not that I was lying or making stuff up.
I gut reaction was that you were scummy based on your first posts, but then when you defending yourself and talked through it with me, I changed my mind.
On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote: Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else?
I can't put my finger on it...
it just feels wrong
There's a combination of nobody really hard-defending him and nobody just BLASTING his play here, that I don't love, but I'm not sure how you'd get either of those with what we have to work with.
What are the alternatives? (I'm not voting snb because he should be interacting with you differently)ghost/nisani/iamperfection? It feels too much like RNGing between the three.
On October 02 2012 02:06 JingleHell wrote: I'm noticing a trend. Both of the main people who want to lynch me are trying very hard to not be seen as the ones forcing the issue, and are basing it off of... not that much. That's Mattchew and Gonzaw, of course.
Amusingly, out of people who have talked to or about me, the one I'd be least suspicious of voting me also seems to be the one most inclined to actually wait for a good reason, and that's Keirathi.
Instead of spreading doubt on your lynch when it isn't even close why don't you put together a post explaining your top 2 scums reads with some sort of explanation why?
Stop defending yourself at every turn and explaining yourself try to actually push a read for the lynch.
Because I already fucking did that, and people promptly ignored it and accused me of not playing, using it as motivation to push me as a target without committing to it?
I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out.
And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that.
What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
I find this a bit weird, "seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it", but he could just be busy.
Frankly, I'm more interested to hear what he has to say about other people.
Ignoring my paranoia about people bandwagoning on what could turn out to be bad reads, if I go pointing to Mattchew's actively-lurky accusation of me actively lurking, he'd just say OMGUS. Not much else he's done that's really worth analyzing, without breaking down silly things, which will always end up making someone look scummy.
Gonzaw, who's mixing a tunnel my direction, and asking for the tail to wag the dog (he keeps pointing my way, and asking everyone else to dive in before he commits any harder), would scream OMGUS if I made that into a case.
Draz, who I unvoted, I'm continuing to keep an eye on.
A lot of us, minimal posting.
If I rip into Ghost for his rather funky post that's already been commented on, people who are already looking at me based on napkin-thin logic will assume I'm trying to redirect suspicion (which, realistically, they'd say about anything probably, but still.) It's "too easy" to jump on board with that, and while I dislike the post, I'm assuming it made more sense in his head, because that's too often the case with posts that get people shredded on D1.
And I'm trying not to lead into cases based on over-analyzing one or two posts yet, because when I do that, I do a better job of persuading people than is good for town, so I'm waiting for larger patterns.
And, as always, if anyone likes one of Gonzaw's questions for me, please repeat it, because I don't feel like indulging him.
This is your other post where you mention a few people, and it IS the best thing in your filter. But...it doesn't really have much to it. Gonzaw tunneling you. You're keeping an eye on Drazerk. Ghost's post looks bad but you won't deal with it because we'll jump on you. You mention a lot of names, but you don't SAY anything.
How does your eye feel about Drazerk atm? Do you think ghost's post/vote looks different or worse than iamperfection and nisani?
Why do you have to feel you have to change your style if you are town? In the game i played with you i thought you played quite well and we did catch 1 scum because of mainly all of your effort. Was it just because of one bad performance?
On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote: Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else?
I can't put my finger on it...
it just feels wrong
try and explain why it feels off this post sucks unless you do.. go gonzaw mode and just post everything you are thinking on the matter
If it wasn't for the fact at least 3 people have mentioned the thing I brought up I probably would of been fine with his lynch but there is basically no defense on his lynch and while I know I love throwing people under a bus and then shooting the corpse until nothing remains it does seems odd to see someone else do it this blatantly if he is scum.
On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote: Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else?
I can't put my finger on it...
it just feels wrong
There's a combination of nobody really hard-defending him and nobody just BLASTING his play here, that I don't love, but I'm not sure how you'd get either of those with what we have to work with.
What are the alternatives? (I'm not voting snb because he should be interacting with you differently)ghost/nisani/iamperfection? It feels too much like RNGing between the three.
On October 02 2012 02:06 JingleHell wrote: I'm noticing a trend. Both of the main people who want to lynch me are trying very hard to not be seen as the ones forcing the issue, and are basing it off of... not that much. That's Mattchew and Gonzaw, of course.
Amusingly, out of people who have talked to or about me, the one I'd be least suspicious of voting me also seems to be the one most inclined to actually wait for a good reason, and that's Keirathi.
Instead of spreading doubt on your lynch when it isn't even close why don't you put together a post explaining your top 2 scums reads with some sort of explanation why?
Stop defending yourself at every turn and explaining yourself try to actually push a read for the lynch.
Because I already fucking did that, and people promptly ignored it and accused me of not playing, using it as motivation to push me as a target without committing to it?
I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out.
And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that.
What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
I find this a bit weird, "seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it", but he could just be busy.
Frankly, I'm more interested to hear what he has to say about other people.
Ignoring my paranoia about people bandwagoning on what could turn out to be bad reads, if I go pointing to Mattchew's actively-lurky accusation of me actively lurking, he'd just say OMGUS. Not much else he's done that's really worth analyzing, without breaking down silly things, which will always end up making someone look scummy.
Gonzaw, who's mixing a tunnel my direction, and asking for the tail to wag the dog (he keeps pointing my way, and asking everyone else to dive in before he commits any harder), would scream OMGUS if I made that into a case.
Draz, who I unvoted, I'm continuing to keep an eye on.
A lot of us, minimal posting.
If I rip into Ghost for his rather funky post that's already been commented on, people who are already looking at me based on napkin-thin logic will assume I'm trying to redirect suspicion (which, realistically, they'd say about anything probably, but still.) It's "too easy" to jump on board with that, and while I dislike the post, I'm assuming it made more sense in his head, because that's too often the case with posts that get people shredded on D1.
And I'm trying not to lead into cases based on over-analyzing one or two posts yet, because when I do that, I do a better job of persuading people than is good for town, so I'm waiting for larger patterns.
And, as always, if anyone likes one of Gonzaw's questions for me, please repeat it, because I don't feel like indulging him.
This is your other post where you mention a few people, and it IS the best thing in your filter. But...it doesn't really have much to it. Gonzaw tunneling you. You're keeping an eye on Drazerk. Ghost's post looks bad but you won't deal with it because we'll jump on you. You mention a lot of names, but you don't SAY anything.
How does your eye feel about Drazerk atm? Do you think ghost's post/vote looks different or worse than iamperfection and nisani?
I don't require you to agree with my reads, or vote based on them. But to dismiss them as not playing and being scummy just because you disagree is ludicrous, especially if you aren't willing or able to argue with my reasoning for those reads.
I'm still not sure about Drazerk. He's fucking hard to read, and anything I could make on him could just as easily be over-analysis. I'm still leaning potential scum.
Also, if my strongest reads are Mattchew and Gonzaw, I'm going to focus them more. Just to be realistic, if I go accusing the entire thread of being scummy based on one or two things, it's not going to contribute to discussion either.
I recently gave a "possible town" read on Keirathi because he at least makes sense when he discusses what he finds suspicious about me. I didn't say it in as many words, but that was the intent of the post. Oh, right, that got dismissed as me throwing doubts on anyone voting me.
Ghost, I've discussed a small amount. If I was going to be worried, it would be more based on lurkiness. Usually, a one post wonder lynch target D1 turns out to be a mislynch, especially when there's so much room for interpretation in the post. If we don't see more from him, though, he'll start looking like a target.
Sorry if I don't sound particularly heavy handed regarding people who aren't my primary reads right now, but I'm not playing to make you happy, I'm playing to hunt scum.
On October 02 2012 02:33 iamperfection wrote: @ JINGLE
Why do you have to feel you have to change your style if you are town? In the game i played with you i thought you played quite well and we did catch 1 scum because of mainly all of your effort. Was it just because of one bad performance?
Have you tried reading the thread, or my filter, to find the answer to that question? It's in there.
On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote: Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else?
I can't put my finger on it...
it just feels wrong
There's a combination of nobody really hard-defending him and nobody just BLASTING his play here, that I don't love, but I'm not sure how you'd get either of those with what we have to work with.
What are the alternatives? (I'm not voting snb because he should be interacting with you differently)ghost/nisani/iamperfection? It feels too much like RNGing between the three.
On October 02 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:
On October 02 2012 02:26 Mementoss wrote:
On October 02 2012 02:06 JingleHell wrote: I'm noticing a trend. Both of the main people who want to lynch me are trying very hard to not be seen as the ones forcing the issue, and are basing it off of... not that much. That's Mattchew and Gonzaw, of course.
Amusingly, out of people who have talked to or about me, the one I'd be least suspicious of voting me also seems to be the one most inclined to actually wait for a good reason, and that's Keirathi.
Instead of spreading doubt on your lynch when it isn't even close why don't you put together a post explaining your top 2 scums reads with some sort of explanation why?
Stop defending yourself at every turn and explaining yourself try to actually push a read for the lynch.
Because I already fucking did that, and people promptly ignored it and accused me of not playing, using it as motivation to push me as a target without committing to it?
I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out.
On October 01 2012 07:04 JingleHell wrote:
On October 01 2012 06:56 HiroPro wrote:
On October 01 2012 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that.
What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
I find this a bit weird, "seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it", but he could just be busy.
Frankly, I'm more interested to hear what he has to say about other people.
Ignoring my paranoia about people bandwagoning on what could turn out to be bad reads, if I go pointing to Mattchew's actively-lurky accusation of me actively lurking, he'd just say OMGUS. Not much else he's done that's really worth analyzing, without breaking down silly things, which will always end up making someone look scummy.
Gonzaw, who's mixing a tunnel my direction, and asking for the tail to wag the dog (he keeps pointing my way, and asking everyone else to dive in before he commits any harder), would scream OMGUS if I made that into a case.
Draz, who I unvoted, I'm continuing to keep an eye on.
A lot of us, minimal posting.
If I rip into Ghost for his rather funky post that's already been commented on, people who are already looking at me based on napkin-thin logic will assume I'm trying to redirect suspicion (which, realistically, they'd say about anything probably, but still.) It's "too easy" to jump on board with that, and while I dislike the post, I'm assuming it made more sense in his head, because that's too often the case with posts that get people shredded on D1.
And I'm trying not to lead into cases based on over-analyzing one or two posts yet, because when I do that, I do a better job of persuading people than is good for town, so I'm waiting for larger patterns.
And, as always, if anyone likes one of Gonzaw's questions for me, please repeat it, because I don't feel like indulging him.
This is your other post where you mention a few people, and it IS the best thing in your filter. But...it doesn't really have much to it. Gonzaw tunneling you. You're keeping an eye on Drazerk. Ghost's post looks bad but you won't deal with it because we'll jump on you. You mention a lot of names, but you don't SAY anything.
How does your eye feel about Drazerk atm? Do you think ghost's post/vote looks different or worse than iamperfection and nisani?
I don't require you to agree with my reads, or vote based on them. But to dismiss them as not playing and being scummy just because you disagree is ludicrous, especially if you aren't willing or able to argue with my reasoning for those reads.
I'm still not sure about Drazerk. He's fucking hard to read, and anything I could make on him could just as easily be over-analysis. I'm still leaning potential scum.
Also, if my strongest reads are Mattchew and Gonzaw, I'm going to focus them more. Just to be realistic, if I go accusing the entire thread of being scummy based on one or two things, it's not going to contribute to discussion either.
I recently gave a "possible town" read on Keirathi because he at least makes sense when he discusses what he finds suspicious about me. I didn't say it in as many words, but that was the intent of the post. Oh, right, that got dismissed as me throwing doubts on anyone voting me.
Ghost, I've discussed a small amount. If I was going to be worried, it would be more based on lurkiness. Usually, a one post wonder lynch target D1 turns out to be a mislynch, especially when there's so much room for interpretation in the post. If we don't see more from him, though, he'll start looking like a target.
Sorry if I don't sound particularly heavy handed regarding people who aren't my primary reads right now, but I'm not playing to make you happy, I'm playing to hunt scum.
I don't find your reads scummy because I disagree with them. I find that POST scummy because it brings up a bunch of players, give a tiny thought on each, and moves on. There's no ... substance.
On October 02 2012 02:33 iamperfection wrote: @ JINGLE
Why do you have to feel you have to change your style if you are town? In the game i played with you i thought you played quite well and we did catch 1 scum because of mainly all of your effort. Was it just because of one bad performance?
Have you tried reading the thread, or my filter, to find the answer to that question? It's in there.
i did read it. my point is who gives a shit if you had one bad game. It takes a village and i find it strange you would completly change your style just because of that.
On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote: Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else?
I can't put my finger on it...
it just feels wrong
There's a combination of nobody really hard-defending him and nobody just BLASTING his play here, that I don't love, but I'm not sure how you'd get either of those with what we have to work with.
What are the alternatives? (I'm not voting snb because he should be interacting with you differently)ghost/nisani/iamperfection? It feels too much like RNGing between the three.
On October 02 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:
On October 02 2012 02:26 Mementoss wrote:
On October 02 2012 02:06 JingleHell wrote: I'm noticing a trend. Both of the main people who want to lynch me are trying very hard to not be seen as the ones forcing the issue, and are basing it off of... not that much. That's Mattchew and Gonzaw, of course.
Amusingly, out of people who have talked to or about me, the one I'd be least suspicious of voting me also seems to be the one most inclined to actually wait for a good reason, and that's Keirathi.
Instead of spreading doubt on your lynch when it isn't even close why don't you put together a post explaining your top 2 scums reads with some sort of explanation why?
Stop defending yourself at every turn and explaining yourself try to actually push a read for the lynch.
Because I already fucking did that, and people promptly ignored it and accused me of not playing, using it as motivation to push me as a target without committing to it?
I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out.
On October 01 2012 07:04 JingleHell wrote:
On October 01 2012 06:56 HiroPro wrote:
On October 01 2012 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that.
What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
I find this a bit weird, "seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it", but he could just be busy.
Frankly, I'm more interested to hear what he has to say about other people.
Ignoring my paranoia about people bandwagoning on what could turn out to be bad reads, if I go pointing to Mattchew's actively-lurky accusation of me actively lurking, he'd just say OMGUS. Not much else he's done that's really worth analyzing, without breaking down silly things, which will always end up making someone look scummy.
Gonzaw, who's mixing a tunnel my direction, and asking for the tail to wag the dog (he keeps pointing my way, and asking everyone else to dive in before he commits any harder), would scream OMGUS if I made that into a case.
Draz, who I unvoted, I'm continuing to keep an eye on.
A lot of us, minimal posting.
If I rip into Ghost for his rather funky post that's already been commented on, people who are already looking at me based on napkin-thin logic will assume I'm trying to redirect suspicion (which, realistically, they'd say about anything probably, but still.) It's "too easy" to jump on board with that, and while I dislike the post, I'm assuming it made more sense in his head, because that's too often the case with posts that get people shredded on D1.
And I'm trying not to lead into cases based on over-analyzing one or two posts yet, because when I do that, I do a better job of persuading people than is good for town, so I'm waiting for larger patterns.
And, as always, if anyone likes one of Gonzaw's questions for me, please repeat it, because I don't feel like indulging him.
This is your other post where you mention a few people, and it IS the best thing in your filter. But...it doesn't really have much to it. Gonzaw tunneling you. You're keeping an eye on Drazerk. Ghost's post looks bad but you won't deal with it because we'll jump on you. You mention a lot of names, but you don't SAY anything.
How does your eye feel about Drazerk atm? Do you think ghost's post/vote looks different or worse than iamperfection and nisani?
I don't require you to agree with my reads, or vote based on them. But to dismiss them as not playing and being scummy just because you disagree is ludicrous, especially if you aren't willing or able to argue with my reasoning for those reads.
I'm still not sure about Drazerk. He's fucking hard to read, and anything I could make on him could just as easily be over-analysis. I'm still leaning potential scum.
Also, if my strongest reads are Mattchew and Gonzaw, I'm going to focus them more. Just to be realistic, if I go accusing the entire thread of being scummy based on one or two things, it's not going to contribute to discussion either.
I recently gave a "possible town" read on Keirathi because he at least makes sense when he discusses what he finds suspicious about me. I didn't say it in as many words, but that was the intent of the post. Oh, right, that got dismissed as me throwing doubts on anyone voting me.
Ghost, I've discussed a small amount. If I was going to be worried, it would be more based on lurkiness. Usually, a one post wonder lynch target D1 turns out to be a mislynch, especially when there's so much room for interpretation in the post. If we don't see more from him, though, he'll start looking like a target.
Sorry if I don't sound particularly heavy handed regarding people who aren't my primary reads right now, but I'm not playing to make you happy, I'm playing to hunt scum.
I don't find your reads scummy because I disagree with them. I find that POST scummy because it brings up a bunch of players, give a tiny thought on each, and moves on. There's no ... substance.
There's not much besides hunches based on small things to work with. I could go through their filter with a fine tooth comb and a negative outlook and make them look so scummy their own mothers would want to lynch them, but frankly, that's got a nasty tendency to not make good cases.
On October 02 2012 02:33 iamperfection wrote: @ JINGLE
Why do you have to feel you have to change your style if you are town? In the game i played with you i thought you played quite well and we did catch 1 scum because of mainly all of your effort. Was it just because of one bad performance?
Have you tried reading the thread, or my filter, to find the answer to that question? It's in there.
i did read it. my point is who gives a shit if you had one bad game. It takes a village and i find it strange you would completly change your style just because of that.
Because if I'm wrong and persuasive, it's BAD. As a townie in PTP3, I was probably the scum MVP. I made bad reads and good cases, and hurt the town badly. Since I don't want to repeat that, I'm hoping people will reach their own conclusions, but instead they're all looking for someone to sheep.
lets expand on this... what do you think of his contributions to the game. What do you think of his read on ghost? Do you agree with his reasoning? What would make you think he is town?
lets expand on this... what do you think of his contributions to the game. What do you think of his read on ghost? Do you agree with his reasoning? What would make you think he is town?
Hes contributed to the game? His case on Ghost is like the two really awful "cases" at the start of the game As said no strong opinion != town it just means null
lets expand on this... what do you think of his contributions to the game. What do you think of his read on ghost? Do you agree with his reasoning? What would make you think he is town?
A counterpoint: do you disagree with my assessment of iamperfection? Did you go check his meta yourself, or did you just think "nah, Keirathi is a noob there's no way he could be right. iamperfection is definitely scum because he's not contributing."?
For reference, his scum game was Newbie XIX. He was completely neutral in his tone throughout the game, lurked, then just sheeped onto the popular case each day.
His attitude as town in his recent games is just completely different than his demeanor was in that game. Again, I'm not giving him a 100% town read, because it is possible that his scum game has changed over time as he got more comfortable, but there's no way I would want to lynch him today.
On October 01 2012 04:22 ghost_403 wrote: I'm pretty happy lynching Keirathi right now. He's putting way too much effort into scumhunting on Day 1 to build up towncred. Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do. I vote we lynch him today, and mementoss tomorrow. WHO'S WITH ME.
##vote keirathi
We are seriously going to allow this crap? Ive played about 6 games of tl mafia and this is the biggest pile of crap ive seen yet.
## Vote ghost_403
This post clearly mis-reads what ghost is trying to say and jumps on him with a hyperbole and what feels like a very fake sense of confidence. The way this post is worded is not as much anger as much as it reads "grab your pitchforks and bandwagon with me"
After this, his teeth are sunk into ghost, and he is afraid to move. He also has failed to comment on literally anyone else in the thread. His reasoning is bad, his contributions are next to nothing.
Honestly I don't think anything more needs to be written. Enough time has past for iamperfection to comment on other players, or contribute to actual discussion. His reasoning for pushing a ghost lynch is bad and grasping at straws.
##unvote ##vote Iamperfection
I think Mattchew is correct here in that perfection is using his read on ghost to not really talk or comment about anything else. I also find it really odd that perfection would say this "His think about hiro reminds me of palmar from rockband just saying someone is town without giving a reason." Because ghost did give a reason. It wasn't a great reason but it was there and the fact that perfection tries to spin it as ghost saying reasonless things and being similar to Palmar (which really doesn't make any sense at all) makes me think he's scum.
I don't think Keirathi's meta point is valid. It's very easy as scum to look cocky when you're really only talking about one player (the stuff he's said on Jingle is just rehashing what other people have said). And perfection is a very new player. It's not at all inconceivable that he would change his style.
EPT
