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Newbie Mini Mafia VII - Page 13

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Bocki
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany98 Posts
April 07 2012 13:50 GMT
#241
After reading it again and going through the filters, I think Lazin is onto something with the BlueyD, era, Therapist connection.

I will go with my gut feeling:

##Vote: BlueyD

Happy Easter Saturday to all of you
Therapist.
Profile Joined January 2009
United States207 Posts
April 07 2012 14:59 GMT
#242
In terms of voting connections, the times I've posted closely to others are merely a coincidence of when I've refreshed the thread. If I were mafia, would I not seek to delay and prevent such connections because of arguments like these coming up? Perhaps I would avoid sharing a vote with the partner in crime altogether if enough people jumped on the bandwagon.

Either way, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to post close to the deadline today unfortunately, but I will try to use my phone to do so. Just to make sure that I get a vote in, I will cast a vote for BlueyD in the meantime, but this does not mean that he is my set-in-stone read for this voting period nor does it mean I am totally convinced his being scum. I intend to keep up and potentially change if the need arises. I simply need to go with my strongest read for the time being to make sure I'm not modkilled.

##Vote: BlueyD
BlueyD
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada437 Posts
April 07 2012 15:03 GMT
#243
Aye, time to put out a vote.

My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.

---

Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.

---

era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.


##Vote:era

---

I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum.
Zealot Chaaaaarge!
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 07 2012 15:10 GMT
#244
On April 07 2012 22:38 Bocki wrote:
Lazin:
Good analysis. I like the connection stuff (although of course I dont like my upcoming in it, but at least you held by the facts).

I only have one correction:
--Bocki votes Lyter "Good as any" (bandwagony?)
Thats not completely true. I said "good as any" in combination with my mathematical approach. Seviro had the least posts (1 post I think). Gossemeer had 3 posts when I did my vote, lyter had 4. That was the reason why I said "good as any", as in "4 posts are as good as 3 posts".

I dont blame you for pointing this out, since it came up 2/3 times now. I hope its clear now why I said it.

And about the bandwagony: I proposed the mathematical approach and proposed seviro (that would have been modkilled if he didnt vote at all) or gossemeer. I wanted to hear from the rest if they want to do the mathematical approach or if someone found something. Since the first vote was lyter and he only had 1 post more than my idea, I was fine with it.


My apologies. I think almost everybody's vote was pretty much motivated by bandwagon day 1, so I don't mean anything negative by that -- I was just using it as a shorthand since my post was going to end up so long anyway.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 07 2012 15:16 GMT
#245
I also think that you guys are more confident in my conclusions than I am D:

I wouldn't recommend lynching somebody today based only on what I posted. The timing information in particular is sketchy at best.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 07 2012 15:25 GMT
#246
On April 07 2012 22:50 Bocki wrote:
After reading it again and going through the filters, I think Lazin is onto something with the BlueyD, era, Therapist connection.

I will go with my gut feeling:

##Vote: BlueyD

Happy Easter Saturday to all of you


Bocki (or anybody else) if you read this before the deadline: Why do you think that the mafia would want to flop to Gossemerr when Lyter, somebody they would've known is town, was already getting lynched? I think that's the weakest part of my post by far, and it's bugging me. The only explanations I can come up with aren't very plausible and come off very WIFOM-y.
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12968 Posts
April 07 2012 16:00 GMT
#247
6 Hours to deadline!

Current vote count:
BlueyD (2): Bocki, Therapist.
Era (2): Nova_Terra, BlueyD
Not voted: LazinCajun, Gossemerr, Era

Voting is mandatory. All players must vote, abstaining is not allowed.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 07 2012 16:04 GMT
#248
EBWOP: in my analysis, I said that BlueyD voted Lyter at the end of day 1, when he voted gossemerr. Oops.
era
Profile Joined November 2010
United States268 Posts
April 07 2012 16:11 GMT
#249
On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.

My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.

---

Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.

---

era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.


##Vote:era

---

I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum.


Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum.

##Vote: BlueyD
Bocki
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany98 Posts
April 07 2012 16:17 GMT
#250
On April 08 2012 00:25 LazinCajun wrote:
Bocki (or anybody else) if you read this before the deadline: Why do you think that the mafia would want to flop to Gossemerr when Lyter, somebody they would've known is town, was already getting lynched? I think that's the weakest part of my post by far, and it's bugging me. The only explanations I can come up with aren't very plausible and come off very WIFOM-y.


I dont think its really weak.

Lyter didnt say anything through most of the day. His post was "okay" but not really good. Maybe they thought that (since gossemeer started the lyter lynch) he would be one of the more active players and tried to off him on D1.

Possible train of thought of mafia:
- Lyter votes for gossemeer. Since he is on the bench and gosse started it, normal reaction.
Lets look at the proposed connection

Since there are only 2 maf it could either be:
1: era/blueyd
era switches to test the terrain, see if anyone else is willing to switch (at that time it was 6-2)
Therapist accepts lyters reasoning and jumps on the train.
BlueyD switches in the hope of someone else switching to gosse. (4-4 then. It would have taken only 1 person, iamallinson for example. iamallinson voted lazin alone, so there was a probability that he jumped on the gosse bandwagon but not lyter since he already switched his vote away from that.)

2: era/therapist
era, same reason
therapist may have not checked his PMs (the posts were only 3 minutes apart) and did not see that era wanted him to wait a while until he posts. Example: PM from era to therapist: "lets switch to gosse and see if someone switches with us". Therapist reads it and begins to write. era sends a PM again "but not right after another, that looks scummy", but therapist already posted.
BlueyD switches to gosse because of some meta stuff. Pretty vague from my point of view, but okay, everyone plays this differently.

3: therapist/blueyd
era is convinced of lyters school explanation and switches to gosse since he started the bandwagon.
therapist: same reasoning as era in 1:
blueyd: waited the appropriate time (12 minutes is still a little small window, but okay. Since he didnt say anything for the next 2,5 hours, maybe he had to leave and didnt want to wait so long to keep the momentum of the bandwagon) and switched then.

This is of course just a case against those three and I did not take into account the other players, but thats what I wanted it to be. I dont think its therapist (although the scenario sounds reasonable) and I cant tell it from single quotes. Just his overall apprearance does not seems scummy to me.

So I think its era/blueyd. The only reason I voted for BlueyD instead of era is that era has made some statements that speak against scum and BlueyD did not. So in case BlueyD isnt scum, its scenario 2.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 07 2012 16:18 GMT
#251
On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.

My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.

---

Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.

---

era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.


##Vote:era

---

I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum.


Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum.

Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of.
Bocki
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany98 Posts
April 07 2012 16:20 GMT
#252
Hmm.. era voting for BlueyD.. that is strange.. maybe its scenario 3?

I'm not convinced that era is not guilty but even less convinced that era is not guilty.

My vote stays.
era
Profile Joined November 2010
United States268 Posts
April 07 2012 16:30 GMT
#253
On April 08 2012 01:18 LazinCajun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:
On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.

My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.

---

Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.

---

era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.


##Vote:era

---

I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum.


Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum.

Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of.


Theres not much to defend, i do post a lot of WIFOM trying not to do that as much. Blueyd asks if im a horrible townie or a horrible mafia? I am obviously a bad townie, this is my first game, Im sure I will player better in my next game. Also it might seem like i am tunneling BlueyD but hes the most suspicious in my book, I am trying to find mafia not accuse 5 different people.
era
Profile Joined November 2010
United States268 Posts
April 07 2012 16:43 GMT
#254
On April 08 2012 01:17 Bocki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 00:25 LazinCajun wrote:
Bocki (or anybody else) if you read this before the deadline: Why do you think that the mafia would want to flop to Gossemerr when Lyter, somebody they would've known is town, was already getting lynched? I think that's the weakest part of my post by far, and it's bugging me. The only explanations I can come up with aren't very plausible and come off very WIFOM-y.


I dont think its really weak.

Lyter didnt say anything through most of the day. His post was "okay" but not really good. Maybe they thought that (since gossemeer started the lyter lynch) he would be one of the more active players and tried to off him on D1.

Possible train of thought of mafia:
- Lyter votes for gossemeer. Since he is on the bench and gosse started it, normal reaction.
Lets look at the proposed connection

Since there are only 2 maf it could either be:
1: era/blueyd
era switches to test the terrain, see if anyone else is willing to switch (at that time it was 6-2)
Therapist accepts lyters reasoning and jumps on the train.
BlueyD switches in the hope of someone else switching to gosse. (4-4 then. It would have taken only 1 person, iamallinson for example. iamallinson voted lazin alone, so there was a probability that he jumped on the gosse bandwagon but not lyter since he already switched his vote away from that.)

2: era/therapist
era, same reason
therapist may have not checked his PMs (the posts were only 3 minutes apart) and did not see that era wanted him to wait a while until he posts. Example: PM from era to therapist: "lets switch to gosse and see if someone switches with us". Therapist reads it and begins to write. era sends a PM again "but not right after another, that looks scummy", but therapist already posted.
BlueyD switches to gosse because of some meta stuff. Pretty vague from my point of view, but okay, everyone plays this differently.

3: therapist/blueyd
era is convinced of lyters school explanation and switches to gosse since he started the bandwagon.
therapist: same reasoning as era in 1:
blueyd: waited the appropriate time (12 minutes is still a little small window, but okay. Since he didnt say anything for the next 2,5 hours, maybe he had to leave and didnt want to wait so long to keep the momentum of the bandwagon) and switched then.

This is of course just a case against those three and I did not take into account the other players, but thats what I wanted it to be. I dont think its therapist (although the scenario sounds reasonable) and I cant tell it from single quotes. Just his overall apprearance does not seems scummy to me.

So I think its era/blueyd. The only reason I voted for BlueyD instead of era is that era has made some statements that speak against scum and BlueyD did not. So in case BlueyD isnt scum, its scenario 2.


This is all speculation and WIFOM. Also if me and therapists were both mafia why would we both switch our votes? We have nothing to lose by having two different votes if both lyter and goss are townies.
Therapist.
Profile Joined January 2009
United States207 Posts
April 07 2012 16:47 GMT
#255
On April 08 2012 01:20 Bocki wrote:
Hmm.. era voting for BlueyD.. that is strange.. maybe its scenario 3?

I'm not convinced that era is not guilty but even less convinced that era is not guilty.

My vote stays.


I sure hope it's not scenario 3 as I am also voting for BlueyD. Seems like it'd be poor play to vote for your teammate early unless it's late in the game the person being voted for has been established as 100% scum.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 07 2012 17:02 GMT
#256
We haven't heard from Gossemerr in a couple pages. I'd like to know where you stand in all of this, could you post something when you get a chance? Only 5 hours until the deadline now.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
April 07 2012 17:07 GMT
#257
FYI, I'll be doing the night post tonight. I'll be traveling for the rest of today, I'm still hoping to get it up on time.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
Bocki
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany98 Posts
April 07 2012 17:12 GMT
#258
I am massivly in doubt... I dont know if I should vote BlueyD or era. I might have been fixated on BlueyD for a while because of our forth-back stuff.

I'll take myself time until the deadline to switch my vote. If I do so, I will of course say why.

If someone might help me in creating a case either against BlueyD (with something else other than I wrote before) or era, I would highly appreciate it.
Nova_Terra
Profile Joined March 2012
Switzerland1190 Posts
April 07 2012 17:47 GMT
#259
Hi everybody, i apologize for my absence today, i was at a Ping-Pong tournament =)
just caught up on the thread. as of yet nothing of note happened differently than what i expected.
Proud supporter of the Basking Rootwalla
Nova_Terra
Profile Joined March 2012
Switzerland1190 Posts
April 07 2012 17:49 GMT
#260
Also, i want to note that it is likely that mafia flopped votes between the two bandwagons in early game to not be associated with eachother. if it was say a therapist and era connection, they both accidentally flopped with the same idea.
Proud supporter of the Basking Rootwalla
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