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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YpvJt.png)
The cohost for this game is ghost_403. Please PM both him and myself any night actions.
GreYMisT and Jitsu will be the coaches of this game. If you're not sure what you want to do is a good thing for your team, you can always send a PM to one of them!
The game has concluded. Obs and Scum Quicktopic can be found here:
Obs quicktopic - http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/DM86CUATvvyp
Scum quicktopic - http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/uLnmFpCjghcX
Newbie Mini Mafia VII
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. Mafia takes up a lot of your time! If you are not prepared to commit, then please don't join
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account.
11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs:
Not allowed. This is a newbie game, don't try to take advantage of it.
Spam:
Please keep spam to a minimum. This thread is for mafia, not chit chat.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. I don't mind at all if you post multiple times in a row.
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. I expect everyone to be civil here. This is a newbie game, and a chance for everyone to try out mafia, or to try and improve there game. We are here to have fun, so please do not insult each other. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, please PM me directly.
Reporting posts:
The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
1. Voting will be done IN THIS THREAD. There will not be a voting thread because I think they're redundant for minis. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Kavdragon. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts as often as possible.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. This game uses Plurality Lynch. Whomever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. In the event of a tie, the player who received the most votes first will be lynched.
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups:
This game is open newbies only, that is, you must have played three or fewer game on TL.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game will use replacements if we can get them. If we have an excess of sign-ups, they will be placed on the 'replacement list' and subbed in as necessary.
Clues:
There are NO clues.
PMs
PMs are NOT allowed in this game.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 21:59 GMT (+00:00) (as to prevent confusion with dates), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits:
Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer.
Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, please go back and do so. Thanks!
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Setup
This is an open 2 of 4 setup. Seven roles are predetermined, and 2 of 4 possible roles are chosen at random to fill the last two setup slots. The seven predetermined roles are 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, and 5 Vanilla Townies. The last 2 roles are chosen out of the following 4 options(2 of 4): Sane Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper, or a sixth Vanilla Townie. There is no chance of duplication in these last two roles.
Therefore, the setup will be randomly chosen among the following:
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Doctor.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Jailkeeper.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Doctor, Jailkeeper.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 6 Vanilla Townies, Jailkeeper.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 6 Vanilla Townies, Doctor.
A sample PM for all roles is provided below.
I will be rolling the dice to assign both teams and roles.
Questions:
+ Show Spoiler +
Q: Does the doctor/jailor or the victim get notified if he saves someone?
A: No one gets notifed
Q: Do people get notified if they are roleblocked?
A: No one gets notified, If the cop gets roleblocked his investigations will return no results.
Q: Can a Jailor roleblock a mafia hit?
A: Yes, the Mafia Goon is designated as the killer, if that guy gets jailed, he won't be able to perform the kill. If the Goon is dead, the Roleblocker will perform the kills.
Q: Can the Doctor/Jailor protect themselves?
A: Nope, sorry!
Q: What if the Jailkeeper and Roleblocker target each other?
A: Roleblocker will act first in this situation, and will prevent the Jailkeeper from using his action.
Q: If the Roleblocker is jailed, will the Roleblocker still be able to use his ability?
A: No, if the Roleblocker is jailed, he will not perform a night action
Q: If a player is targeted by both the Jailkeeper and Sane Cop, will the Cop get a result back?
A: No, any actions performed on a player who has been jailed will not be completed.
Q: Do the mafia have to attempt a kill at night?
A: No, Mafia do not have to kill at night. They may choose to withhold their kill instead.
Sample PMs:
+ Show Spoiler +Townie
You are a Townie! You have no special role, only your voice and your vote. Make them count!
Sane Cop
You are the Sane Cop! You have the ability to make night investigations. Once per night phase, you may perform a check on a player to find out their alignment.
Doctor
You are the Doctor! Every night you may select a player to protect from a night hit. You may not protect yourself. If you save a player from a hit, neither of you will be notified.
Jailkeeper
You are the Jailkeeper! Every night you may select a target, and that player will be both protected and roleblocked. Any actions they try to perform will be unsuccessful. Likewise, any actions performed on them will also be unsuccessful. Neither player will be informed if any actions were blocked.
Mafia Goon
You are the Mafia Goon! You are the man with the gun, and perform kills for your team. If you are killed, your teammate will retrieve your gun and perform the kills instead.
Your partner in crime is name. You may PM him/her as much as you like.
Mafia Roleblocker
You are the Mafia Roleblocker! Every night you may choose a target to be role blocked. If the person chosen to be role blocked has a night action, he or she may not use it for the night. You may roleblock the same person each night.
Your teammate is name. You may PM him/her as much as you like. Your teammate will perform the kills, but if he or she dies then you will perform the kills instead.
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Player List
Replacement List
1.
2.
3.
2 of 2 MAFIA remaining:
0 of 7 TOWN remaining:
Mafia KP is always 1
+ Show Spoiler [ Dead Players] +
1. Lyter - Lynched Night 1
2. imallinson - Killed Day 2
3. Era - Lynched Night 2
4. Gossemerr - Killed Day 3
5. Therapist. - Lynched Night 3
6. BlueyD - Endgamed
7. LazinCajun - Endgamed
8.
9.
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GreYMisT and Jitsu will be the coaches of this game. If you're not sure what you want to do is a good thing for your team, you can always send a PM to one of them! The game will start as soon as 9 players have signed up and will run for 48 hours + the time between starting and 11:59PM CEST.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
/in
Forum mafia looks really fun. Will be good to have a nice easy introduction.
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On April 01 2012 22:09 Radfield wrote:
Woot, you rock Artanis
So do you <3
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Hehehe... I'm gonna cohost this game. You guys don't stand a chance. 
Everyone, good luck have fun!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
New players where did you all go!?
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First to die in Newbie VI. Can I join as soon as I'm out of another game? If so...
/in
This would make this my second game ever, by the way.
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United States22154 Posts
someone should bump the S&G sticky, that always gets new people :-P
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Aye, let's try this again!
/in
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Let's do my last newbie game :D /in
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oo with a coach this time... GL ppl ^^ I think I'll read through this one.
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/in !
First Mafia game on TL, loads in RL
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/in
welcome imallinson. i promise this is painfu--- uhh, enjoyable rather. same to you Bocki, era, etc.
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Day 1![[image loading]](http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/thumb/7/73/Asgard_main.jpg/406px-Asgard_main.jpg)
It was the year 990 AD. A sunny day upon the high plains of Asgard. Many gods decided to take the day off from pummeling giants and went out to lay down into the sun. Ten gods had agreed to meet up near the world tree Ygddrassil.
What they did not expect, however, was that Loki would decide to pay him a visit. Known for his trickery, Loki decided to ask the Gods a question. "How would you like a game of epic guessing proportions?", he said. The gods seemed uninterested as Artanis said "We're not playing your games, Loki. We've done enough of that in the past." Loki, however, was not planning to take no for an answer. "If you want to play hard to get, I'm sure I can accomodate you." he said as he turned into a snake and dissapeared.
The gods didn't think much more of it and continued to bathe in the sun. This peace lasted for a few more hours, until they heard very familiar howling. When they ran out to see if it was what they feared, Loki snuck up on them and right as they saw that it was indeed Fenrir, stabbed a spear into Artanis' Heart. Loki used his death as a sacrifice to turn all the gods into.. Goats, including himself and the wolf Fenrir. The gods were powerless to reverse the spell, but somehow managed to retain their ability to talk.
That day, the gods that were now goats decided that they needed to lynch someone. But whom? The goat previously known as ghost_403 seemed like the suspicious choice, and so they threw him into Mimir's lake to drown, but quickly discovered he was in fact just a regular god. Disstatisfied by the result they decided to go to bed, only to discover that Radfield had been savagely eaten by a wolf. It seemed like Loki had the power to change him and his wolf back at night. This meant that the seven remaining goats had to act fast during the day. Their next target will be chosen today.
Artanis (Odin) has been stabbed to death!
ghost_403 (Tyr) has been thrown into Mimir's lake and drowned!
Radfield (Freyr) has been viciously eaten!
Day 1 will end in 55 hours, at 21:59 GMT (+00:00) on Wednesday Apr 4th.
A few reminders before we begin:
This is NOT a majority lynch setup. Whomever has the most votes at the end of the Day will be lynched.
You need to post at least once per Day and Night, and voting is mandatory. You may not abstain, vote for a no-lynch or vote for yourself.
From this point on, if you would like to be replaced out of the game, please PM me directly. DO NOT post your replacement request in the thread.
Please keep things civil, and treat each other with respect. If I feel like you are stepping out of line, I will send you a warning via PM. If you receive a warning from me, please heed it.
Most of all, Have Fun! Mafia is a frustrating, rewarding and enjoyable game, lets make it a good one! 
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Let's go! who's scum then? 
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I'm sc... Er, I mean townie! Green townie. That's it. Don't lynch me.
Lynch Nova_Terra instead. He's scum. He proved it last game.
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This BlueyD guy claiming hes a townie..I don't buy it, I think hes scum.
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By the way, we are still looking for replacements (just in case). PM me or Artanis if you're interested.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 03 2012 00:30 BlueyD wrote:
I'm sc... Er, I mean townie! Green townie. That's it. Don't lynch me.
Lynch Nova_Terra instead. He's scum. He proved it last game.
You seem overly defensive.
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Good morning everyone. Hopefully we can track those scum down right quick.
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On April 03 2012 01:39 imallinson wrote:
You seem overly defensive.
I'm just playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious.
By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already?
Nahh, this is my second game ever. My first game's filter can be found here: SNMM IX BlueyD filter
I was townie and was in the game until the end. We lost. You can see me both on the offensive and the defensive in there, so it can be a useful resource. I won't tell you how to interpret the filter; if you're curious, go see for yourself.
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That's pretty much all I have to say today. Given that an inactive not voting on the last day caused our doom last game, I'm all for lynching the most inactive person unless a good case comes up. So, post your greetings and introductions, ladies!
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 03 2012 03:52 BlueyD wrote:I'm just playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious. By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already? Nahh, this is my second game ever. My first game's filter can be found here: SNMM IX BlueyD filterI was townie and was in the game until the end. We lost. You can see me both on the offensive and the defensive in there, so it can be a useful resource. I won't tell you how to interpret the filter; if you're curious, go see for yourself. ---------- That's pretty much all I have to say today. Given that an inactive not voting on the last day caused our doom last game, I'm all for lynching the most inactive person unless a good case comes up. So, post your greetings and introductions, ladies!
Don't worry I'm just getting a feel for the other townsmembers.
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On April 03 2012 03:52 BlueyD wrote:I'm just playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious. By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already? Nahh, this is my second game ever. My first game's filter can be found here: SNMM IX BlueyD filterI was townie and was in the game until the end. We lost. You can see me both on the offensive and the defensive in there, so it can be a useful resource. I won't tell you how to interpret the filter; if you're curious, go see for yourself. ---------- That's pretty much all I have to say today. Given that an inactive not voting on the last day caused our doom last game, I'm all for lynching the most inactive person unless a good case comes up. So, post your greetings and introductions, ladies!
Why do you keep talking about a previous game when it has no relevance? I find your actions interesting
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era said:
Why do you keep talking about a previous game when it has no relevance? I find your actions interesting
Are you familiar with the concept of meta?
Here's the idea: It's sometimes possible to get hints on someone's role (green, red, blue) based on comparisons between the player's behavior in the current game and the player's behavior in previous games he has played.
So that's why you've been linked to my filter from my only previous game, and told roughly what happened to me there. This has relevance.
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As for the lower part of my post and its reference to a previous game, said game was merely an excellent example of how an inactive player can make a town lose (by not voting, and by providing some hiding space for scum), and why we should in my opinion lynch one on day 1 if no better case comes up.
This is a pretty standard move in a game of mafia as well: Put pressure on people so that they remain active.
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I PM'ed ghost to sign up as a replacement, but I thought maybe I should post here in case Artanis logs on first.
/in as a replacement, glhf :D
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Holy god, i just made a 4 paragraph superpost on my ipad, formatted it, and then accidentally hit the new tab button and its all gone. goodbye 30 minutes of my life. will post in like 5 mins with the gist of it T-T
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Sad, that's always the way it works Nova.  Make a masterpiece, it gets deleted, make a summary.
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Ello der BlueyD. <333333
hello everybody! I'm nova, and you may know me as hardcore rager, guy who tilts, scum that beat you last game, (teehee) but this time You will hopefully know me as what i am, Townie .
To start off, I would just like to direct everybody to the mafia guides on the forums. They will at least give you the basic ideas of what is happining or how people are playing. Also, if you have the time, i highly reccomend going through one of our last games to tell peoples play apart from this game (meta). It gives such a HUUUUUGE advantage as you can determine peoples behavior changes very easily from game to game. last game, town almost lynched me due to meta, and should have.
Also, here are 3 terms that werent immediately obvious to me when i first played:
EBWOP: Edit by way of post, as you cant edit you can double post to 'edit'
OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck, pretty much when someone gets defensive and votes based on the aggression coming towards thhem that is considered OMGUS (please correct me if im wrong)
FoS: Finger of suspicion. Used to note that you are suspicious of someone and to direct attention to them.
A Couple other things to note are:
Dont make the mistake i made in my first game and post cases based on connections to other people.it alienates people and seriously, who is going to vote with you when you say that if your suspect flips red they are probably red too?
Dont just go for the "obvious lynch" of a bad player who make like 763784 tells day 1. Last game, i was thanking the heavens (as mafia) that everyone wanted to vote for the two players who were making the most mistakes. as mafia, i was scared to make scumtells and repeatedly went through my posts before i made them to be as safe as possible, and i had my team to remind me of how to act. townies are alone. we have to think for ourselves, and we post more on impulse.
Same goes for lurker lynches. Although i agree with a possible lynch of someone who is getting by unsuspected with a minimal amount of posts, a mafia is much more likely to step up to defend themselves when their name is on the chopping block than a bored townie. I agree with voting to pressure lurkers however, as i was scared to hell whenever i saw a single vote on me.
Now to get content rolling, I would like everyone to post regarding their stances on how we will be lynching day 1. I am for an information lynch over a lurker or "bad" lynch.
So far BlueyD is the most scummy because of how defensively he reacts to people, for instance his comment which implies that era does not know about game concepts. and in response to BlueyD suspecting me, who is more likely to be mafia, mafia last game or town last game. So Bluey is my current suspicion haha xD jk ^^
And hey, even though last game i apparently destroyed time, i still think some sort of soft deadline would be beneficial to getting a collective vote. Maybe 8 hours?
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Just to note my thoughts, Gossemerr, Seviro, and Bocki havent posted yet. in my point of view they are not any more suspicious than Lyter, Era, or Therapist even though those 3 have posted. why? There isnt really any content in their posts as of yet. Lurking is not more suspicious than contentless posting.
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Now all of you post up, i'll be back in the morning
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On April 03 2012 05:33 BlueyD wrote:Show nested quote +era said:
Why do you keep talking about a previous game when it has no relevance? I find your actions interesting Are you familiar with the concept of meta? Here's the idea: It's sometimes possible to get hints on someone's role (green, red, blue) based on comparisons between the player's behavior in the current game and the player's behavior in previous games he has played. So that's why you've been linked to my filter from my only previous game, and told roughly what happened to me there. This has relevance. ---------- As for the lower part of my post and its reference to a previous game, said game was merely an excellent example of how an inactive player can make a town lose (by not voting, and by providing some hiding space for scum), and why we should in my opinion lynch one on day 1 if no better case comes up. This is a pretty standard move in a game of mafia as well: Put pressure on people so that they remain active.
I am very familiar with the concept of meta. But what if your just showing us your last game of where you played a townie so that you can act in the same way in this game, making you look innocent while really you are scum.
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Also I agree with Nova_Terra I think we should base our lynch on information over lurkers.
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Was not expecting this to start so soon...
Anyway, before I was for lynching lurkers D1, but I think my mind has changed. Lurkers are not really a problem D1 considering they have been town usually in my experience. I would like to make an educated lynch on someone who is leaning scum this time around, or a no lynch if nobody fits the bill.
Regarding the stuff on BlueyD: doesn't seem very scummy to. First was an obvious joke, next few are just explaining things after being called out.
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Well the crickets certainly are loud...
Lyter you started this game off where are you now? Interesting that you ask who are the scummies. Maybe you know already?
As for the the others whom have not posted yet, maybe they do not know the game started?
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Well I was doing this called sleeping :D
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After sleeping comes posting correct?
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Gossemerr The suspicion on BlueyD was a joke as well xD
Also we still havent had everyone post yet... The fact that we would prefer an info lynch over a lurker lynch is not an excuse to lurk >.>
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Lyter, Therapist, Imallinson and partially era need to begin posting content. their own content. Seviro and Bocki need to post at all, And post content. the pressure votes will commence later today.
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There is no real content yet, just meaningless stuff so far. An explanatory paragraph, then a bunch of 2 liners saying a whole lot of nothing
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Thats my point. Try to come up with something
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Greetings Earthlings,
sorry, had to watch Game of Thrones first
So, this is my first TL Mafia game (I've played a lot in RL a while ago). I hope this is gonna be fun.
As i read through the thread, theres no real info right now, right?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I'm definitely with Nova on the info lynch > lurker lynch. It will be far too easy to accidently lynch a quiet blue lynching a the least active player. Also encourages everyone to spam meaningless rubbish to avoid suspicion which only helps the scum.
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Yeah i wouldn't want to Lynch a quite blue, Now if only we had some actual information.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I'm curious of other people's suspicions because I have a few but they are very vague and have no evidence to back them up.
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I have no suspicions thus far. The thread is too inactive to start to get any information. Plus, correct day one reads are quite a rarity anyway. Still, I would like to lynch for information as opposed to lurkers. Day one lurkers don't really tell us too much, in my opinion. At the same time, I would like to hear from everyone this day or I might get more suspicious of them on day two.
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I am still suspicious of BlueyD, although my evidence is not very strong since there is not a lot of information. He starts off with
On April 03 2012 00:30 BlueyD wrote:
I'm sc... Er, I mean townie! Green townie. That's it. Don't lynch me.
Lynch Nova_Terra instead. He's scum. He proved it last game.
He said he was making a joke but it seems like hes trying too hard to act like a townie. Him also linking his filter from last game where he was a townie seems like hes trying really hard to look innocent. He posts just seem fake and scummy to me.
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I disagree with a BlueyD lynch for sure. Come on, thats obviously a joke, and the fact that he linked us to last game is helpful to us. These are things that should be done day 1. Its not trying really hard to look inno, just standard and helpful.
Also he's one of the biggest contributors currently. no sense in eliminating him yet.
is the deadline tonight or tomorrow?
If its tonight, i am actually thinking that a no-lynch could be advantageous. we dont want to lynch a lurker when he could easily be townie or blue (seviro) and theres real information otherwise... lemme check.
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I thought we have to lynch someone?
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On April 03 2012 17:44 Nova_Terra wrote:
(...) The fact that we would prefer an info lynch over a lurker lynch is not an excuse to lurk >.>
It's no excuse, but it's part of the explanation for the lack of activity, the other part being it hasn't been 24 hours since the start of the game, and some people might not even know it began. But then again, we've got a lot of one-line heroes here.
It's the start of the game, you can't say "let's lynch on information" when you have no information, and you're certainly not motivating people to speak up when they could just shut up and give you no information to work with.
This is why people threaten to lynch on lurking at the start of a game, even when they'd rather lynch on info: this is how we get information to work with in the first place. Another way is to threaten to lynch on meta, but good luck doing that in a newbie game.
To those who openly say they like the idea of an info lynch: How do you intend to get that information in the first place?
To those who side with the idea of a lurker lynch so far, given the lack of info: Welcome to the club! Have a coupon for free coffee.
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My reply of epic proportions to era's attempt to make a case on me (be ready for my first wall of text of the game, guys):
+ Show Spoiler +
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ahh, tomorrow. no worries then. plenty of time.
FoL: Seviro (finger of lurking haha)
Seviro post up. now.
as well as everybody who hasnt really done anything. A 1-2 liner doesnt count as a contribution. Lets go, the more we make people post the more we have to work with to find scum.
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Well, BlueyD pretty much just explained what i couldnt really clarify well >.>
How i plan to get information? well first if Seviro hasnt posted by the time i wake up tomorrow morning (which gives him plenty of time) i'm voting for him. not necessarily my day 1 vote.
2nd of all if our 1 liners havent posted content i'll vote them after seviro. in order of which one of them posted the least content.
oh god, for some reason i thought in plurality lynch we could tie the votes and no lynch T-T
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No need to be an ass BlueyD
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
The lynch is tomorrow night and we can't no lynch. A BlueyD lynch would probably be bad. He is being fairly prolific in his posting and if he was scum that is super risky, its asking to get lynched. We do need to hear from some of the other players because info is very sparse at the moment.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Hmmm don't know about tied votes.
What happens in the event of a tied vote?
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Person who got the votes first is lynched
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It says, "In the event of a tie, the player who received the most votes first will be lynched."
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
So it does, now I feel rather stupid :D
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Ok, so there is no way not to lynch someone .. hm.
Since there is no Information: What to do? We can either do a random lynch, choose someone that is quiet or something.
Because someone that did not post at all will be modkilled anyway.
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Era, you have 9 ingame posts and 8 of them are 1-2 liners. the other one is one where you share suspicions on BlueyD, which is weird because the things that you say make him seem a bit scummy make him seem more town. other than that, you have brought nothing new to the table and agreed with people. You seem to have the time, as you do have 9 posts, use it constructively instead of 1linering please. its scummy.
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On April 04 2012 05:04 Nova_Terra wrote:
Era, you have 9 ingame posts and 8 of them are 1-2 liners. the other one is one where you share suspicions on BlueyD, which is weird because the things that you say make him seem a bit scummy make him seem more town. other than that, you have brought nothing new to the table and agreed with people. You seem to have the time, as you do have 9 posts, use it constructively instead of 1linering please. its scummy.
Responding with LoL is pretty scummy as well.
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and theres the next 1 liner >.>
No offense intended, but that can barely be called a case...
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EBWOP: and defending yourself by saying that what the other person did is scummy isnt a good way to defend yourself, at all.
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Bocki, instead of asking us, what do YOU suggest that we do?
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That is why i said that it wasn't very strong ><, iamallinson asked for us to share our suspicions and I did. Would you rather I not talk at all? Also someone who is scum would want to seem very pro town.
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I would suggest to get one that only has 1/2 posts. Since it's highly possible that they either have something to hide or are not usefull in finding the real scummy guys.
Right now, least posts numbers is seviro with 1 post, before the game started, so if he does not post, he will be modkilled.
The least posts (although by only 1 post) is gossemeer with 3 posts.
Anyone a better idea?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Not currently no. That seems like a reasonable plan for the moment seeing as we have nothing better to go on. We can always scrap it if anyone has a decent scum read.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
EBWOP: I don't think it should be so mathematical as lowest post count gets lynched. We should definitely take their actual contribution into consideration.
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So we have another 24ish hours to decide right?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Yes day ends 11pm BST tomorrow.
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I somewhat agree with Bocki, but it shouldnt be based on least posts but instead least contribution. so gossemerr wouldnt be as low ranking, as for instance Lyter.
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Ah ok, i thought it would be tonight.
Yeah, I know that you dont do it mathematically, but I think its a valid thing to do on first day. If you play normal mafia, its really rare that someone gets lynched on the first day, but since we have to do it, might as well do it mathematically.
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On April 04 2012 05:26 era wrote:
That is why i said that it wasn't very strong ><, iamallinson asked for us to share our suspicions and I did. Would you rather I not talk at all? Also someone who is scum would want to seem very pro town.
My point isnt really the case, its the mass of fluff 1 liners compared to contributing posts.
I would rather you put down more opinions and thoughts instead of agreement 1 liners and have you think up something yourself.
Both town and scum want to seem pro town. in no way does it make anyone more suspicious by trying to seem pro-town, as one of the main things you have to do as townie is establish your innocence.
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Going to bed, hope to see some more content tomorrow <3 Gl Hf mah townies
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5. This game uses Plurality Lynch. Whomever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. In the event of a tie, the player who received the most votes first will be lynched.
+ Show Spoiler +Looks like three other people already answered that XD
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Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum:
On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D
but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now?
##Vote: Lyter
Gotta start somewhere.
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Heya guys, I got some internet problem yesterday and I'm not sure if it's fixed yet, just got access to it now and dunno if it will last so I asked to get replace. I'm sorry, gg hf.
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Lazincajun will replace Seviro for this game. Everyone say hi!
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Hi everybody, I just got the PM that I'm to replace Seviro. I was about to head off to bed, but I'll catch up on the thread and post tomorrow morning.
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Hi guys, just woke up, and saw no new content
Sorry about that seviro, seeya soon
Welcome Lazin :D
As seviro is being replaced, i do agree that to start with, Lyter is a decent choice as he has posted nothing.
##Vote: Lyter
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I'm guessing the lack of content is due to everyone being asleep
Seeing as there isn't a better option at the moment
##Vote: Lyter
We'll see what Lazin has to say in a bit.
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Good as any
##Vote: Lyter
Too bad for seviro, but hello lazin
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Lyter is also my pick for the moment. A few short posts and zero content. Give us something to work with, Lyter, you can still save your own life!
##Vote: Lyter
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Hi all, this is my first time playing mafia. gl hf :D
Lyter, I'd certainly like to see what you have to say to defend yourself, and with the plurality lynch it's looking like you're going to be the one to go. At this point, to stay in the game I think you pretty much need some kind of claim that one of the blue roles can verify.
So, I ask, what can you tell us to keep yourself alive? It will be up to whatever blue role we have to check your claim tonight if you survive that long.
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EBWOP: It looks like you have 5 votes so far, so you have to get people to change their vote or you're gone. I'll hold off until closer to the deadline to vote.
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By the way, the link to Era's filter in the player list is broken -- it just goes to his profile.
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Hey cajun, I noticed that too, but I thought it was just bugged on my end.
Lyter seems to be a good choice not a lot of posts and hes always sleeping.
Jumping on the Wagon until he responds or something new comes up.
##Vote: Lyter
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6 Hours to deadline!
Current vote count:
Lyter (6): Gossemerr, Nova_Terra, imallinson, Bocki, BlueyD, era
Therapist, Lyter, and LazinCajun have yet to vote!
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
It will be good to get the last three votes. It should be very informative. So hurry up people.
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Like I said, I'd like to wait a little while to hear what lyter has to say.
I'm stuck in my apartment today because they're replacing some sheetrock, so I'll definitely be around and will vote before the deadline. I know it's mandatory vote etc
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
The reason it's good to vote now is to get info. You can always change your vote later.
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Yes, I'll hear what he has to say and then cast my vote. He's already had enough of a bandwagon that we don't need to all hop on him immediately. Hopefully he arrives and responds, as it is a completely random vote so far and I'd hate to vote a blue.
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On April 05 2012 01:53 imallinson wrote:
The reason it's good to vote now is to get info. You can always change your vote later.
He already has a majority of the votes. Adding one more to the pile wouldn't change much. If Lyter doesn't have something substantial to say, then by all means I'll throw my vote in.
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Sick wagon....
Lazin, i dont think that its a good idea to say that it might be up to a blue to check him if he isnt lynched. 1. Lyter hasnt posted anything that could be damaging to town at all really, and so far isnt worth the check 2. they might have somebody who is more suspicious in their mind that they want to check and 3. they would have to roleclaim early if anything came up. then they are either dead or worthless because of roleblocker. Better to wait and make subtle hints at least.
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After dinner I'm gonna make some sort of chart/table where i give points for quality posts and then divide them by quantity. It should at least give us some insights into whos saying the least.
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somebody said that they had a couple suspicions that they didnt want to post yet, anything new there?
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On April 05 2012 02:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Sick wagon....
Lazin, i dont think that its a good idea to say that it might be up to a blue to check him if he isnt lynched. 1. Lyter hasnt posted anything that could be damaging to town at all really, and so far isnt worth the check 2. they might have somebody who is more suspicious in their mind that they want to check and 3. they would have to roleclaim early if anything came up. then they are either dead or worthless because of roleblocker. Better to wait and make subtle hints at least.
I think my post was confusing, and you're right that it would be bad for a blue to claim their role this early. This is especially true since we can't be sure yet that we have a jailor or doctor to protect a claimed cop, for example.
What I'm really trying to say is that Lyter needs to make a strong case for himself if he wants to stay in the game.
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Lazin: to be true: What case can he make at Day 1? He can roleclaim, but if he's blue then thats just as bad. He was chosen because he is the least active. That is highly probable because of AFKism, and what strong case can you make when you were afk? "I REALLY! was afk, look at my facebook timeline, I didnt post anything" ...
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I didn't mean info on Lyter everyone bandwaggoning him tells us nothing about him. It's everyone else I'm curious about.
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Ah ok, misread that.
Well, deadline is in a few hours, we'll see what happens then. No one should be modkilled due to afkism.
Hmmm..
QUESTION: Is the punishment for not voting modkill?
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On April 05 2012 03:01 Bocki wrote:
Lazin: to be true: What case can he make at Day 1? He can roleclaim, but if he's blue then thats just as bad. He was chosen because he is the least active. That is highly probable because of AFKism, and what strong case can you make when you were afk? "I REALLY! was afk, look at my facebook timeline, I didnt post anything" ...
What good is not roleclaiming if he gets lynched anyway? You could argue that you're hiding info from the mafia, but his role gets revealed if he gets lynched.
If he happened to be blue, at least there's a chance that a doctor or jailor could protect him.
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EBWOP for clarity:
If he's innocent (unsure) and going to get lynched anyway (looks likely), then he should absolutely roleclaim! The town gains nothing by him keeping silent, especially since his role is revealed upon lynching.
If he happened to be blue, at least there's a chance that a doctor or jailor could protect him.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
But if we have a doctor or jailer then they have to waste their action on him every night. It's especially bad if the other blue is jailer because then neither blue role is used. This is of course assuming there are two blues. He could be the only one.
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##Vote: Lyter
By not responding he's really not adding anything to this game at all. May as well throw the vote in on him and see how it goes.
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On April 05 2012 04:17 imallinson wrote:
But if we have a doctor or jailer then they have to waste their action on him every night. It's especially bad if the other blue is jailer because then neither blue role is used. This is of course assuming there are two blues. He could be the only one.
I'm sorry, but mislynching a blue is a far worse result than a doctor or jailor "having" to use their nightly action to keep a blue alive.
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He could also lie about being a blue in order to stay a alive couldn't he?
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Ok, it's getting late enough with no reply that I'll hop on the bandwagon reluctantly. I encourage people to check back before the deadline if they can to see if lyter has any defense for himself.
##Vote: Lyter
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Oops, didn't bold. Sorry.
##Vote: Lyter
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Yes I'll be keeping up before the deadline for sure.
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OK, so apparently in my absence everyone decided they wanted me dead, fair enough.
I don't really have much in the way of declaring my innocence through past actions as this is the first day, so there is no backlog of votes and reasoning for you to go off. I could scream my role at you, but that probably wouldn't help at all as you have no reason to believe I'm telling truth as there have been no nights for me to exercise said role yet.
However I will make a case against another player after reading through everyone's filter which is pretty tough because the vast majority have said nothing other than 2 liners simply restating what some guy prior has already said. I'm voting for Gossemerr. This guy has posted a grand 3 times, and his last post was the first vote against me. This act in itself however massively contradicts something he said earlier, surely it can't be so hard to have a little consistency in the way you act across 3 posts?
On April 03 2012 09:40 Gossemerr wrote:
Was not expecting this to start so soon...
Anyway, before I was for lynching lurkers D1, but I think my mind has changed. Lurkers are not really a problem D1 considering they have been town usually in my experience. I would like to make an educated lynch on someone who is leaning scum this time around, or a no lynch if nobody fits the bill.
Regarding the stuff on BlueyD: doesn't seem very scummy to. First was an obvious joke, next few are just explaining things after being called out.
This was his first post, actively stating that he will not lynch due to lurking, and either do it off suspicion, or vote no lynch, so of course it makes sense for him to begin the lynch train right?
On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere.
This was his last post, in which he started the bandwagon against me.
Oh and the reason I think the reason you ask me what I think of BlueyD is not to get a response off of me for you to get a read of me, but so the rest of town has someone to look at, in fact 2 people for the town to look at, they get my response for a read, and then of course putting more pressure on BlueyD who has already had a fair bit of attention, diverting attention away from actually making progress. But instead keeping eyes elsewhere.
##vote Gossemerr
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Ok so now that everyone has voted and no one besides Lyter himself has defended him self I'm temporarily convinced he isn't scum. He could be and the other scum could be going for the risky bandwaggon to make him seem less suspicious but as far as I'm concerned he isn't a good lynch at the moment. Thus
##Unvote: Lyter
So onto who I think might actually be scum. My bet at the moment is LazinCajun seeing as he seems to be fairly for a blue outing himself day 1 which seems like something scum would want and I can't think of a reason town would want that.
##Vote: LazinCajun
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2 Hours to deadline!
Current vote count:
Lyter (7): Gossemerr, Nova_Terra, Bocki, BlueyD, era, Therapist, LazinCajun
Gossemerr (1): Lyter
LazinCajun (1): imallinson
Any players who do not vote will be modkilled after the deadline.
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Things are heating up. I am going to have to agree with Lyter. Grossemerrs accusation was very sudden and it was mostly based on On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D
Which Lyter propably was since he usually posts late at night and doesnt post again until around 5, which is propably when gets off work/school.
##Unvote: Lyter
##Vote: Gossemerr
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Such a quiet day one. I am going to agree with Lyter that Gossemerr did manage to contradict himself already by lynching a lurker straight after saying he didn't want to lynch a lurker. Pretty strange.
##Unvote
##Vote: Gossemerr
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Yikes, Lyter, that was a bit late if you're hoping to save yourself... But on the good side, I'll add my vote to yours right now.
##Unvote: Lyter
##Vote: Gossemerr
That first post of Gossemerr you quote isn't just contradicted by what he does later on... But mostly, it's also an acknowledged metagame change!
I'm not sure what could possibly have brought that metagame change, either. The guy we lynched day 1 last game can hardly be called a lurker - It's true that he contributed nothing, but his presence was known and seen by all. He was a spammy town not a lurker, kind of like era this game. And one of the 2 lurkiest players in the game did turn out to be scum. That doesn't seem to justify a metagame switch at all!
Lynch him! Lyyyynch him! *diabolical laugh*
Ahem, I mean... I'm comfortable enough lynching Gossemerr on meta and info we have now.
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On April 05 2012 05:01 imallinson wrote:
Ok so now that everyone has voted and no one besides Lyter himself has defended him self I'm temporarily convinced he isn't scum. He could be and the other scum could be going for the risky bandwaggon to make him seem less suspicious but as far as I'm concerned he isn't a good lynch at the moment. Thus
##Unvote: Lyter
So onto who I think might actually be scum. My bet at the moment is LazinCajun seeing as he seems to be fairly for a blue outing himself day 1 which seems like something scum would want and I can't think of a reason town would want that.
##Vote: LazinCajun
You missed my point entirely. I was just trying to get lyter to post SOMETHING before he got bandwagoned.
If anything, my argument was about keeping a (potential) blue alive -- I argued that IF he happened to be blue, was better to roleclaim than to just get mislynched.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Current vote count:
Lyter (4): Gossemerr, Nova_Terra, Bocki, LazinCajun
Gossemerr (4): Lyter, era, Therapist, BlueyD
LazinCajun (1): imallinson
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I still don't think role calling would have been good in the situation, he's most likely dead either way. I will wait until Gossemerr defends himself to change my vote though, I'm not entirely sure about him yet.
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When is the deadline? I have been busy with school and am currently at school, have not even read the thread in a day. Fail on my part. I would not lynch me though based off this, I have just been busy. What little I did read why did everyone switch to me for just voting for Lyter lols. BTW the vote was a pressure vote.. just wanted him to talk. Now I have to leave my vote on Lyter as I don't want a mis-lynch on me. I'll post a lot more tonight when I get home; that is if I'm not dead.
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Also read BlueyDs post, my early voting is the same meta as all my other games... go read them.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
It's about an hour to the deadline.
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Sorry, dinner ran late and i wont be able to make my table tonight due to being on an IPad right now T-T
The fact that Lyter came back to defend himself is good, however in my mind it does not make him any more innocent. A scum would want to come back and defend himself more than a townie.
What Lyter has not pointed out is both 1. Gossemerr's 3 posts have had content, which up until now his have not (and same with many other people in the game) and 2. Gossemerr's early aggression is a common trait in his meta.
Also, anyone who changes their vote to Gossemerr from Lyter who uses the reasoning of sudden accusation is totally hypocritical, as they just jumped on a bandwagon TWICE.
I am leaving my vote, for these reasons and also because the developments happened way after the soft deadline that i proposed.
If Lyter flips scum, Gosse is pretty much innocent, and the other way around. However, Lyters contribution came AFTER he was pressured, and therefore i find him more scummy.
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We only have an hour left. This is certainly getting interesting
I agree with you about Gossemerr imallinson. I'd like to hear if he has anything else to say in the little time we have left today.
I do think Lyter's post is a good one. I skimmed it at first and thought it was a case of OMGUS, but reading it in detail the reasoning seems pretty sound considering how little info we have to work with.
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On April 05 2012 05:57 Nova_Terra wrote:
The fact that Lyter came back to defend himself is good, however in my mind it does not make him any more innocent. A scum would want to come back and defend himself more than a townie.
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This part makes no sense, regardless what I am I would want to defend myself lol, unless I was like a jester which isn't in this game
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Also i saw the strange thing about Gossemerr's voting stance but i think its not anything at all as he said he would want to no-lynch if there was nobody sufficiently susp. and we cant no-lynch, which also confused me (coming from 2 games in a row with majority lynch with no-lynch). Not a big reason to vote him...
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On April 05 2012 06:00 Lyter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:57 Nova_Terra wrote:
The fact that Lyter came back to defend himself is good, however in my mind it does not make him any more innocent. A scum would want to come back and defend himself more than a townie.
. This part makes no sense, regardless what I am I would want to defend myself lol, unless I was like a jester which isn't in this game
As i was a mafia last game, i was much more concerned with defending myself than i was/am now. Also scum has a responsibility to their team, and are less likely to become bored and abandon the game. I did not say that you wouldnt want to defend yourself as a townie, just that scum would come back just as easily if not more so.
Unrelated, lol@ Jester, do you play sc2 mafia? xD
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1 Hour to deadline!
Current vote count:
Lyter (4): Gossemerr, Nova_Terra, Bocki, LazinCajun
Gossemerr (4): Lyter, era, Therapist, BlueyD
LazinCajun (1): imallinson
With no voting changes, Lyter will be lynched!
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I did yea, I don't even know what that is called in forum mafia, but anyway, if i'm getting owned 6-0 on votes, I have to def myself, it isn't going to change around if I sit and do nothing.
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On April 05 2012 04:48 Lyter wrote:1.OK, so apparently in my absence everyone decided they wanted me dead, fair enough. I don't really have much in the way of declaring my innocence through past actions as this is the first day, so there is no backlog of votes and reasoning for you to go off. I could scream my role at you, but that probably wouldn't help at all as you have no reason to believe I'm telling truth as there have been no nights for me to exercise said role yet. 2.However I will make a case against another player after reading through everyone's filter which is pretty tough because the vast majority have said nothing other than 2 liners simply restating what some guy prior has already said. I'm voting for Gossemerr. This guy has posted a grand 3 times, and his last post was the first vote against me. This act in itself however massively contradicts something he said earlier, surely it can't be so hard to have a little consistency in the way you act across 3 posts? Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 09:40 Gossemerr wrote:
Was not expecting this to start so soon...
Anyway, before I was for lynching lurkers D1, but I think my mind has changed. Lurkers are not really a problem D1 considering they have been town usually in my experience. I would like to make an educated lynch on someone who is leaning scum this time around, or a no lynch if nobody fits the bill.
Regarding the stuff on BlueyD: doesn't seem very scummy to. First was an obvious joke, next few are just explaining things after being called out. 3.This was his first post, actively stating that he will not lynch due to lurking, and either do it off suspicion, or vote no lynch, so of course it makes sense for him to begin the lynch train right?Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. 4.This was his last post, in which he started the bandwagon against me. Oh and the reason I think the reason you ask me what I think of BlueyD is not to get a response off of me for you to get a read of me, but so the rest of town has someone to look at, in fact 2 people for the town to look at, they get my response for a read, and then of course putting more pressure on BlueyD who has already had a fair bit of attention, diverting attention away from actually making progress. But instead keeping eyes elsewhere. ##vote Gossemerr
Gonna analyse this case a little bit
1. Fluff section, explains why he cant defend himself to defend himself?
2. Tells us who hes voting for, and makes it fluffy in that he briefly explains his decision which we will explain just a second later
3. I think i tried to explain this a bit, he didnt find anyone inherently scummy, and a no lynch isnt possible. i dont see another option.
4. Or maybe it is. Just defensive WIFOM.
Summary: Case doesnt have much in it, and the biggest section is WIFOM. I'm actually a bit suspicious of people who flop from Lyter to Gosse because of this.
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Oh no, I totally agree about defending yourself, but i just wanted to point out the fact that you defend yourself (by making a case vs someone else and explaining why you cant defend yourself) does not make you less suspicious, at least in my eyes.
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And I'm not saying it does make me less suspicious either, just that you can't make any judgement or leanings from that there is a defence
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then we both effectively said the same thing and happened to misunderstand eachother o.o
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come on everybody, its close to the deadline, i want everybody to be posting if you can be here
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On April 05 2012 05:01 imallinson wrote:
Ok so now that everyone has voted and no one besides Lyter himself has defended him self I'm temporarily convinced he isn't scum. He could be and the other scum could be going for the risky bandwaggon to make him seem less suspicious but as far as I'm concerned he isn't a good lynch at the moment. Thus
##Unvote: Lyter
So onto who I think might actually be scum. My bet at the moment is LazinCajun seeing as he seems to be fairly for a blue outing himself day 1 which seems like something scum would want and I can't think of a reason town would want that.
##Vote: LazinCajun
As i feel like i need to be doing something, i just want to note why the reasons to flop around are also not good.
Starting withh imallinson.
first part: why should anyone other than lyter have defended himself? what? If i make a case against somebody and he defends it, does that mean i am more likely scum because i didnt defend something?
second part: Lazin clarified that (multiple times) reasonably well. if Lyter is blue and was about to be lynched, it is sufficient a reason to claim blue so town at least doesnt totally waste a lynch (and probably out a blue, as i dont think a mafia would try to claim blue day 1 when someone could just counterclaim him)
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On April 05 2012 05:20 era wrote:Things are heating up. I am going to have to agree with Lyter. Grossemerrs accusation was very sudden and it was mostly based on Which Lyter propably was since he usually posts late at night and doesnt post again until around 5, which is propably when gets off work/school. ##Unvote: Lyter
##Vote: Gossemerr
Second: era
Sudden accusations ARE day 1. also, your bandwagoning on Lyter was very sudden, and also mostly based on that. And bandwagoning is more scummy than starting a vote aggressively is.
The fact that he was probably sleeping doesnt mean that he cant post content afterwards instead of that >.>
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EBWOP: At least it wasnt a 1 liner
On April 05 2012 05:23 Therapist. wrote:
Such a quiet day one. I am going to agree with Lyter that Gossemerr did manage to contradict himself already by lynching a lurker straight after saying he didn't want to lynch a lurker. Pretty strange.
##Unvote
##Vote: Gossemerr
Last, currently, Therapist.
Entire flop based on the fact that Gossemerr has to lynch a lurker after saying he doesnt want to. But what can he do otherwise? Nothing!
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 05 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:01 imallinson wrote:
Ok so now that everyone has voted and no one besides Lyter himself has defended him self I'm temporarily convinced he isn't scum. He could be and the other scum could be going for the risky bandwaggon to make him seem less suspicious but as far as I'm concerned he isn't a good lynch at the moment. Thus
##Unvote: Lyter
So onto who I think might actually be scum. My bet at the moment is LazinCajun seeing as he seems to be fairly for a blue outing himself day 1 which seems like something scum would want and I can't think of a reason town would want that.
##Vote: LazinCajun As i feel like i need to be doing something, i just want to note why the reasons to flop around are also not good. Starting withh imallinson. first part: why should anyone other than lyter have defended himself? what? If i make a case against somebody and he defends it, does that mean i am more likely scum because i didnt defend something? second part: Lazin clarified that (multiple times) reasonably well. if Lyter is blue and was about to be lynched, it is sufficient a reason to claim blue so town at least doesnt totally waste a lynch (and probably out a blue, as i dont think a mafia would try to claim blue day 1 when someone could just counterclaim him)
My point is there is one more scum out there assuming Lyter is scum then they would be risking losing half their number if they don't defend him. It certainly doesn't remove all suspicion from him but enough for me think he is a bad lynch today. As for Lazin I have been reasonably convinced of his motives the only reason I haven't changed my vote is I haven't been convinced as to anyone else's scummyness.
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There's not enough evidence to do one thing over another at this point. After today's lynching and the night actions we'll actually have something to work with. I have no reason to believe anyone is town over mafia at this point. You're probably right - chances are that he was in fact just trying to kick some conversation up. And it did work.
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Final vote count:
Lyter (4): Gossemerr, Nova_Terra, Bocki, LazinCajun BlueyD, era, Therapist.
Gossemerr (4): Lyter, era, Therapist., BlueyD
LazinCajun (1): imallinson
Lyter will be lynched as he reached 4 votes first.
Night 1![[image loading]](http://funnydoom.com/wp-content/gallery/15the_goat_tower/the_goat_tower-0007.jpg)
The god goats had slowly gotten used to their new form, and learned basic communication on that very day. The sun still shining brighly upon their faces, they walked across Asgard until they found it. The fabled goat tower was the one positive thing that this whole experience had brought. Known as a land of fun only allowed for goats, the herd had made its stop here. The reason however was not one of pleasure but of truth, as they tried to figure out which of the goats was responsible. Loki was the one they were after, but the goats could barely distinguish eachother in this shape, let alone find the god of trickery himself.
After a lot of pandering, bickering and meh'ing, was chosen to be executed. He was forced to climb the goat tower and jump off from it. Lyter jumped off, and ended up with just a minor bruise as it turned out the goat tower was only about 6 feet high. Discovering that this method was not very effective, the other goats decided to ram their horns into Lyter's helpless body, killing him instantly. He changed back into his original shape and it became clear that they killed Váli, one of Odin's sons.
Lyter the townie has been brutally lynched!
Night has begun! It will last until 21:59 GMT (+00:00) on Thursday April 5th. All night actions must be PMed to both myself and ghost_403 this night.
Reminder: Coaching is available from both GreYMisT and Jitsu should you feel the need to call upon their services.
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On April 05 2012 06:43 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 05 2012 05:01 imallinson wrote:
Ok so now that everyone has voted and no one besides Lyter himself has defended him self I'm temporarily convinced he isn't scum. He could be and the other scum could be going for the risky bandwaggon to make him seem less suspicious but as far as I'm concerned he isn't a good lynch at the moment. Thus
##Unvote: Lyter
So onto who I think might actually be scum. My bet at the moment is LazinCajun seeing as he seems to be fairly for a blue outing himself day 1 which seems like something scum would want and I can't think of a reason town would want that.
##Vote: LazinCajun As i feel like i need to be doing something, i just want to note why the reasons to flop around are also not good. Starting withh imallinson. first part: why should anyone other than lyter have defended himself? what? If i make a case against somebody and he defends it, does that mean i am more likely scum because i didnt defend something? second part: Lazin clarified that (multiple times) reasonably well. if Lyter is blue and was about to be lynched, it is sufficient a reason to claim blue so town at least doesnt totally waste a lynch (and probably out a blue, as i dont think a mafia would try to claim blue day 1 when someone could just counterclaim him) My point is there is one more scum out there assuming Lyter is scum then they would be risking losing half their number if they don't defend him. It certainly doesn't remove all suspicion from him but enough for me think he is a bad lynch today. As for Lazin I have been reasonably convinced of his motives the only reason I haven't changed my vote is I haven't been convinced as to anyone else's scummyness.
Ahh, looks like i misunderstood what you meant D:
Still, I dont think that a mafia would try hard to defend another mafia and make it apparent. You would gain a lot of townie cred if you went heavy on him instead and he died and flipped red, whereas if you defend him and he still dies, you are also screwed.
Its just WIFOM. not enough reason to flip from him to gossemerr.
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Unfortunate, but not unexpected. There was a 7/9 chance of him being a townie. This was such a bandwagon lynch, I'm not sure how much information we can really take out of this. The only potential thing I can think of is that the convenience of Lyter being a lurker might've made him a prime target for Gossemerr if he were mafia to randomly call out. Although drawing attention to himself and getting conversation started isn't the way a mafia would want to behave. Maybe we'll get a night read from someone.
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tut tut
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Oh well Just looking at the numbers, odds were that we wouldn't get scum, and I guess there are worse things than having a green get lynched day 1.
So now I pose the question: Does Lyter flipping green make Gossemerr more scummy?
I have an answer to this, but I think more info can be obtained by waiting for Gossemerr to respond.
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EBWOP: Lazin, sry, not gossemerr.
damn, that sucks.
Also as he flipped green it could also be a clever way to make yourself(imallinson) seem unrelated to the lyter vote. Once again, just WIFOM though, not worth suspicion.
As far as day 1 lynches go, that wasnt too terrible, at least. Had he put in a bit more effort before he was accused, that could have been avoided easily.
Also, Therapist, if you wouldnt prefer 1 lynch over the other, why would you flop (in a suspicious manner between two bandwagons) to gossemerr? still less reason to vote him...
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Night kill generally just provokes a ton of WIFOM. hard to glean much meaning from it, but we'll see.
Therapist, please tell me, what are your current thoughts on era? how likely is he to be scum in your eyes (rough percentage) and why?
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Lazin, as far as statistics are concerned, it does make gossemerr more scummy xD
No, I think it doesnt make him any more scummy. Why? mafia doesnt like initiating a vote aggressively on someone they know to be town. it could be a clever ploy, but i still see that as normal town play.
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Going to bed, will post in morning
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Sorry I missed the last hour, I had to go workout and eat dinner. Sad that we lynched a townie, but it could have been worse.
On April 05 2012 07:19 Nova_Terra wrote:
Lazin, as far as statistics are concerned, it does make gossemerr more scummy xD
No, I think it doesnt make him any more scummy. Why? mafia doesnt like initiating a vote aggressively on someone they know to be town. it could be a clever ploy, but i still see that as normal town play.
I don't think you can say that it doesn't make Gossemerr more suspicious just because hes being aggressive and thats not what mafia usually does, He could just be breaking the meta to not look suspicious. I think that it does make Gossemerr more of a suspect since Lyter turned out to be a townie.
Also does iamallison look more suspicious since she changed her vote to lazin? Maybe to try to make herself look more innocent?
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In defense of Gossemerr:
It's true, as Gossemerr says, that his early voting does fit his meta from last game. He was also the first to put a vote on there.
Lyter flipping green really says nothing on Goss. If Goss hadn't put the first vote, someone else would have. Lyter was hands down the most inactive at that point, so the act of putting the first vote on him is totally fine by me.
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And now, the bad...
Actual quote:
Anyway, before I was for lynching lurkers D1, but I think my mind has changed. Lurkers are not really a problem D1 considering they have been town usually in my experience. I would like to make an educated lynch on someone who is leaning scum this time around, or a no lynch if nobody fits the bill.
What I don't understand is why he went "okay guys, I've got a new stance on lynching lurkers this game!" with an explanation that made no real sense, and then just acted the same way he did last game anyway (as he brings up himself). That's where the contradiction is for me.
That's not a very heavy case, admittedly, but on day 1 it's difficult to do a lot better than this.
Please note that my reasons for this flip were different than the 3 other guys', though they sprang from the same Gossemerr post. Awaiting his defense now.
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Also I think that anyone who voted for Lyter made a big mistake, because he actually defended himself (even if it was a weak defense), while grossemere basicly blew it off and said that he is busy and that he will defend himself later.
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Era's pretty accusatory. But who isn't day one? He jumped off the bandwagon against Lyter which I thought was the right thing to do. So far I don't think he's very likely to be mafia, but he hasn't said much.
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Okidok. I will take the blame for that wagon. Even though I didn't even make a case so there shouldn't have been one in the first place. I voted to pressure him to talk. I WAS planning on retracting my vote if he said something of worth. Life stuff got in the way and couldn't post until earlier. I would have retracted my vote, but if I did -> I would die and it would be a for sure mis-lynch. And yeah my mind has changed since EVERY SINGLE time I have voted to lynch a hardcore lurker D1, they have been town. How the hell didn't I explain my stance in that quote BlueyD? I never said I wouldn't pressure peeps.
Moving on, I'm going to post an analysis tonight after food, ect.
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There is not much going on to at the moment to analyze. We need to start up some conversations.
BlueyD
On April 03 2012 00:30 BlueyD wrote:
I'm sc... Er, I mean townie! Green townie. That's it. Don't lynch me.
Lynch Nova_Terra instead. He's scum. He proved it last game.
I'm starting with this quote only to bring attention to the joke. At first I deemed it meaningless (as stated by BlueyD himself in this next quote), but I am beginning to reconsider that stance. I'll expand on this more as I go along here.
On April 03 2012 03:52 BlueyD wrote:I'm just playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious. By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already? Nahh, this is my second game ever. My first game's filter can be found here: SNMM IX BlueyD filterI was townie and was in the game until the end. We lost. You can see me both on the offensive and the defensive in there, so it can be a useful resource. I won't tell you how to interpret the filter; if you're curious, go see for yourself. ---------- That's pretty much all I have to say today. Given that an inactive not voting on the last day caused our doom last game, I'm all for lynching the most inactive person unless a good case comes up. So, post your greetings and introductions, ladies!
Omitting a post where he defends talking about meta. Next post,
On April 04 2012 04:44 BlueyD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 17:44 Nova_Terra wrote:
(...) The fact that we would prefer an info lynch over a lurker lynch is not an excuse to lurk >.> It's no excuse, but it's part of the explanation for the lack of activity, the other part being it hasn't been 24 hours since the start of the game, and some people might not even know it began. But then again, we've got a lot of one-line heroes here. It's the start of the game, you can't say "let's lynch on information" when you have no information, and you're certainly not motivating people to speak up when they could just shut up and give you no information to work with. This is why people threaten to lynch on lurking at the start of a game, even when they'd rather lynch on info: this is how we get information to work with in the first place. Another way is to threaten to lynch on meta, but good luck doing that in a newbie game. To those who openly say they like the idea of an info lynch: How do you intend to get that information in the first place?
To those who side with the idea of a lurker lynch so far, given the lack of info: Welcome to the club! Have a coupon for free coffee.
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My reply of epic proportions to era's attempt to make a case on me (be ready for my first wall of text of the game, guys):
[spoiler]LOL[/spoiler]
There is a difference between pressuring by voting, and actually voting to lynch someone based off a case. I just did the pressure vote, which kinda failed as I stated earlier. The underlined part of this post is another "joke." You keep making these when they are not really necessary. At best it clogs the thread and confuses people, at worst it pisses people off and brings unneeded emotion into arguments among all of us. You already alluded that you were going to be more serious, but it does not look that way. Now, lets bring in your concept of voting based on a meta change. In our last game (BlueyD posted a link for those that want to read it) you were pretty serious and straightforward the entire game. Do you now feel the need to lighten the mood due to feeling some anxiety as a result of being a scum?
Which brings me to his next post:
On April 05 2012 05:35 BlueyD wrote:
Yikes, Lyter, that was a bit late if you're hoping to save yourself... But on the good side, I'll add my vote to yours right now.
##Unvote: Lyter
##Vote: Gossemerr
That first post of Gossemerr you quote isn't just contradicted by what he does later on... But mostly, it's also an acknowledged metagame change!
I'm not sure what could possibly have brought that metagame change, either. The guy we lynched day 1 last game can hardly be called a lurker - It's true that he contributed nothing, but his presence was known and seen by all. He was a spammy town not a lurker, kind of like era this game. And one of the 2 lurkiest players in the game did turn out to be scum. That doesn't seem to justify a metagame switch at all!
Lynch him! Lyyyynch him! *diabolical laugh*
Ahem, I mean... I'm comfortable enough lynching Gossemerr on meta and info we have now.
Here he tries to say that I have an unjustified meta switch, even though he was in the last game when I did the same early pressure vote. He also votes for me based off basically nothing when he wanted to lynch a lurker originally (unless a case was made; I can't really see Lyter's post as a good enough case to warrant my vote), and effectively jumping on the already steam-rolling wagon on me. This behavior is contradictory. Finally, again another "joke" is underlined.
And for the last post:
On April 05 2012 07:57 BlueyD wrote:
In defense of Gossemerr:
It's true, as Gossemerr says, that his early voting does fit his meta from last game. He was also the first to put a vote on there.
Lyter flipping green really says nothing on Goss. If Goss hadn't put the first vote, someone else would have. Lyter was hands down the most inactive at that point, so the act of putting the first vote on him is totally fine by me.
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And now, the bad...
Actual quote:
Anyway, before I was for lynching lurkers D1, but I think my mind has changed. Lurkers are not really a problem D1 considering they have been town usually in my experience. I would like to make an educated lynch on someone who is leaning scum this time around, or a no lynch if nobody fits the bill.
What I don't understand is why he went "okay guys, I've got a new stance on lynching lurkers this game!" with an explanation that made no real sense, and then just acted the same way he did last game anyway (as he brings up himself). That's where the contradiction is for me.
That's not a very heavy case, admittedly, but on day 1 it's difficult to do a lot better than this.
Please note that my reasons for this flip were different than the 3 other guys', though they sprang from the same Gossemerr post. Awaiting his defense now.
First part of this post basically contradicts everything he states earlier. Second part just brings up meta again, which he already stated before. Last blurb: how exactly are your reasons different when its the same as what Lyter basically said? Don't take this as an OMGUS post; I did my reading and made an analysis.
For now:
##FoS: BlueyD
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On April 05 2012 07:48 era wrote:Sorry I missed the last hour, I had to go workout and eat dinner. Sad that we lynched a townie, but it could have been worse. Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 07:19 Nova_Terra wrote:
Lazin, as far as statistics are concerned, it does make gossemerr more scummy xD
No, I think it doesnt make him any more scummy. Why? mafia doesnt like initiating a vote aggressively on someone they know to be town. it could be a clever ploy, but i still see that as normal town play. I don't think you can say that it doesn't make Gossemerr more suspicious just because hes being aggressive and thats not what mafia usually does, He could just be breaking the meta to not look suspicious. I think that it does make Gossemerr more of a suspect since Lyter turned out to be a townie. Also does iamallison look more suspicious since she changed her vote to lazin? Maybe to try to make herself look more innocent?
I dont think you can say that it makes him more suspicious seeing as you are basing that on the other side of the WIFOM.
please explain what you mean by Gossemerr is more susp because Lyter flipped town. Statisticwise, yeah, but If a townie makes a bad case day 1 and ends up lynched, that doesnt make the person they accused more suspicious, maybe if the case had a bit more merit though.
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Yeah, what i dont understand about blueyD's stance on voting gossemerr is that he wants to do it because a tiny part of Gossemerr's metagame has changed(a part that gossemerr even acknowledges???) If so, I think thats a metagame change on BlueyD's part as he didnt lynch me right away last game when my meta was different.
Ok therapist, you didnt answer the first part of my question from the post before, " If you didnt prefer one lynch over the other, why would you flop ( in a suspicious manner between two bandwagons) To gossemerr? Then you say you thought it was the right thing to do to flop off of lyter to gossemerr. why? The case was pretty much based on one point that didnt even really need to be answered by gossemerr, and was filled with a bunch of useless fluff...
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Also i brought up the imallinson thing slightly before the deadline, i believe. Yeah, I think it makes him seem slightly more suspicious, for not picking a side. seeming to not want to get involved.
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Hi,
I wasnt there yesterday in the final hours so I didnt see lyters defense. But I dont think that I would have choosen someone else anyway. The problem is: We chose lyter because he was so quiet, so he wouldnt bring much to the table. After he defended, you chose gossemeer because he started the bandwagon. Thats both pretty random, but that is normal for day 1. This is not a defense for gossemeer, I dont think anyone can really make a decision right now about who is scum and who is not.
But since we are all relying on very little right now: I support gossemeer in his diagnosis of BlueyD. He made some good statements.
Lets see what BlueyD says to that.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I didn't pick a side because I wasn't convinced either way. I was fairly sure Lyter was town, which he was, and the Gossemerr vote seemed to be Lyter picking up anything that could be construed as suspicious, understandable as he was town desperately trying to defend himself, that turned into it's own bandwaggon. Because I didn't think either of them was scum and didn't have any evidence to get a swing to someone I was more suspicious of I left my vote where it was a as throw away. If i was scum I would never have removed my vote from Lyter. It was way too easy to blend into the bandwaggon there. Airing suspicions about someone completely different puts me in the spotlight much more.
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Well, Nova, I'll also acknowledge that my meta has changed: I now know how to lynch on meta. Note that this is a justified change (unlike Goss's apparent switch), as I would have hit a scum last game (you) if I had done it and one of the veterans commenting after the game pointed out this should have been done... and that's a big part of why I'm now trying it this time.
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Gossemerr, I'm being attacked for making jokes now, really? I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is. Grats, you did.
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Lyter's reason:
- OMG Goss says he doesn't want to lynch lurkers and then puts a vote on me for lurking!
My reasons:
- Goss says he's meta-switching and his reason makes no sense to me
- Goss then seems to revert to old meta despite saying he'd change
Are they the same? Lyter's reason and my 2nd reason are similar, I'll grant, and I'm ready to accept your defense against it: you were just pressuring. Do tell us you're ready to switch your vote away if he posts something of quality next time you pressure-vote, however, not just "Gotta start somewhere." Not switching afterwards is entirely justifiable as well given the situation: gotta save your own skin.
The first still looks to me like something scum would do, and that's the bigger one of the two for me: You suddenly decided lynching a lurker is bad, when one of the big 2 lurkers was scum last game. Explain. You haven't even come close from doing so, instead choosing to attack me on jokes.
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Therapist is another suspicion for reasons already mentioned by others, but I'll add my weight in asking him why he switched if he thought both votes had equal value. I'll add that he was lurker #2 on my list before the vote, so he really needs to pick up his play.
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imallinson, let's be honest here: you can't play neutrality in this situation. There were two likely lynch candidates, and they were tied. You're the tiebreaker! You owe it to the town to examine both cases and pick who dies, because one of them will die anyway, and your pick won't.
Instead, you went "nope! not getting into this". This is an "avoid blame" move, not a "find the best lynch" move. I can understand the initial switch away from Lyter, who suddenly had a better post than a lot of people in the game. I can't really understand not switching back to either him or Goss once you knew that one of them would die.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 06 2012 00:14 BlueyD wrote:
imallinson, let's be honest here: you can't play neutrality in this situation. There were two likely lynch candidates, and they were tied. You're the tiebreaker! You owe it to the town to examine both cases and pick who dies, because one of them will die anyway, and your pick won't.
Instead, you went "nope! not getting into this". This is an "avoid blame" move, not a "find the best lynch" move. I can understand the initial switch away from Lyter, who suddenly had a better post than a lot of people in the game. I can't really understand not switching back to either him or Goss once you knew that one of them would die.
Well by me not switching to Goss I effectively chose Lyter. However, I still stand by the fact neither of them had good reasons to be lynched.
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Of course. Nobody will really have a good reason to lynch day 1.
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As I saw it, the main reason we were voting for Lyter to begin with was to apply pressure and get him to post. It was successful and he did post and he defended himself, so there was really no reason to continue voting for him since he really didn't say anything scummy at all. Therefore, both votes did not really have EQUAL value anymore. I would have liked for Gossemerr to defend himself at that point and get the conversation going, but pretty much everyone either got set on their original Lyter vote for whatever reason or just didn't show up/discuss at all before the deadline. It was an unfortunately inactive time which cost us a lack of additional information in my opinion.
DId you guys really jump on the Lyter bandwagon intending to go all the way and lynch him no matter what? I don't see what the advantage of doing that could possibly be. There's a difference between pressure moves and kill moves.
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In class for one more hour, will respond with a case for someone when I get back home.
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On April 06 2012 02:24 Therapist. wrote:
As I saw it, the main reason we were voting for Lyter to begin with was to apply pressure and get him to post. It was successful and he did post and he defended himself, so there was really no reason to continue voting for him since he really didn't say anything scummy at all. Therefore, both votes did not really have EQUAL value anymore. I would have liked for Gossemerr to defend himself at that point and get the conversation going, but pretty much everyone either got set on their original Lyter vote for whatever reason or just didn't show up/discuss at all before the deadline. It was an unfortunately inactive time which cost us a lack of additional information in my opinion.
DId you guys really jump on the Lyter bandwagon intending to go all the way and lynch him no matter what? I don't see what the advantage of doing that could possibly be. There's a difference between pressure moves and kill moves.
I went on the Lyter bandwagon just to pressure, when Lyter defended himself I switched my vote to gross, Gross never defended himself and since there was never really a good case for Lyter I felt like everyone should have switched to Gross. Why lynch lyter vs gross if lyter actually defended himself?
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Oh gawd.
On April 06 2012 00:14 BlueyD wrote:
1.Gossemerr, I'm being attacked for making jokes now, really? I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is. Grats, you did.
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Lyter's reason:
- OMG Goss says he doesn't want to lynch lurkers and then puts a vote on me for lurking!
My reasons:
- Goss says he's meta-switching and his reason makes no sense to me
- Goss then seems to revert to old meta despite saying he'd change
Are they the same? Lyter's reason and my 2nd reason are similar, I'll grant, and I'm ready to accept your defense against it: you were just pressuring. 2.Do tell us you're ready to switch your vote away if he posts something of quality next time you pressure-vote, however, not just "Gotta start somewhere." Not switching afterwards is entirely justifiable as well given the situation: gotta save your own skin.
The first still looks to me like something scum would do, and that's the bigger one of the two for me: You suddenly decided lynching a lurker is bad, when one of the big 2 lurkers was scum last game. Explain. You haven't even come close from doing so, instead choosing to attack me on jokes. 3.
1. Way to continue being an ass on a forum. The second line is a convenient excuse for making jokes.
2. Why would I say this? If I did, then he would have no reason to really post anything of quality without being worried about being lynched.
3. Yes I did explain, please read the following.
On April 03 2012 09:40 Gossemerr wrote:
Was not expecting this to start so soon...
Anyway, before I was for lynching lurkers D1, but I think my mind has changed. Lurkers are not really a problem D1 considering they have been town usually in my experience. I would like to make an educated lynch on someone who is leaning scum this time around, or a no lynch if nobody fits the bill.
Regarding the stuff on BlueyD: doesn't seem very scummy to. First was an obvious joke, next few are just explaining things after being called out.
Bold: Ya one last game was scum, but the other 5 I have played with have not been.
On April 05 2012 11:07 Gossemerr wrote:
Okidok. I will take the blame for that wagon. Even though I didn't even make a case so there shouldn't have been one in the first place. I voted to pressure him to talk. I WAS planning on retracting my vote if he said something of worth. Life stuff got in the way and couldn't post until earlier. I would have retracted my vote, but if I did -> I would die and it would be a for sure mis-lynch. And yeah my mind has changed since EVERY SINGLE time I have voted to lynch a hardcore lurker D1, they have been town. How the hell didn't I explain my stance in that quote BlueyD? I never said I wouldn't pressure peeps.
Moving on, I'm going to post an analysis tonight after food, ect.
Read the bold again.
I would like to point out that I did not "attack you". Just pointed them out. Its an entirely different meta this game, when you didn't joke around last game -> which you completely ignored from my analysis in your "defense." Actually I don't think you even defend yourself at all; just asked me to repeat myself AGAIN.
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2. Why would I say this? If I did, then he would have no reason to really post anything of quality without being worried about being lynched.
How would you saying that you will change your vote if lyter post something of quality make him not post anything of quality? I don't understand please explain yourself.
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My reply to Goss, let's make this short this time... Hah, who am I kidding.
I would imagine last game is what makes the difference in your views on lynching lurkers, hence why I'm not looking at what you've played before that. If the defining events had happened before that, then your stance would also have changed before that, and you wouldn't be saying "I've changed my mind!" this game. If at least we had lynched a 'hardcore lurker' last game and he had turned out to be townie, then I would have understood you're changing due to an accumulation of events, with last game at the turning point.
But the guy we lynched wasn't a 'hardcore lurker', to use your term. He posted a lot! I would say our 2 D1 lynch candidates (both townies) were on the chopping block due to terrible play (useless lists, spammy 2-liners, bad logic, strange voting pattern in one case, etc), not really due to lurking. They had legit cases on their butts day 1, unlike lurkers that just get lynched because "well, he's not posting much at all". Meanwhile, one of the 2 hardcore lurkers that game turned out to be scum after all.
So that's why I keep 'repeating': I'm not entirely satisfied with 2 parts of your explanation.
1. The part where you consider games other than the last, which couldn't possibly be the catalyst for your switch now.
2. The part where you describe last game's day 1 as a lurker lynch when it wasn't.
Nova might call this a 'tiny part of your metagame' but it still seems strange to me.
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The important part isn't the jokes, it's the analysis. I'm more at ease this game so I let myself joke around a little at the start/end of posts, but otherwise I would imagine the core of my posts - what you're supposed to be looking at most and taking seriously - looks about the same, and I'm still scumhunting actively.
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A reminder to others that Gossemerr is not my only suspicion, and the town will quickly scope in on you if you're trying to hide or posting only fluff. Goss has an advantage over all of you guys: He's active. I'll try to take a look at our less active players tonight.
I'm out for now, back later.
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On April 06 2012 00:14 BlueyD wrote:
Well, Nova, I'll also acknowledge that my meta has changed: I now know how to lynch on meta. Note that this is a justified change (unlike Goss's apparent switch), as I would have hit a scum last game (you) if I had done it and one of the veterans commenting after the game pointed out this should have been done... and that's a big part of why I'm now trying it this time.
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Gossemerr, I'm being attacked for making jokes now, really? I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is. Grats, you did.
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Lyter's reason:
- OMG Goss says he doesn't want to lynch lurkers and then puts a vote on me for lurking!
My reasons:
- Goss says he's meta-switching and his reason makes no sense to me
- Goss then seems to revert to old meta despite saying he'd change
Are they the same? Lyter's reason and my 2nd reason are similar, I'll grant, and I'm ready to accept your defense against it: you were just pressuring. Do tell us you're ready to switch your vote away if he posts something of quality next time you pressure-vote, however, not just "Gotta start somewhere." Not switching afterwards is entirely justifiable as well given the situation: gotta save your own skin.
The first still looks to me like something scum would do, and that's the bigger one of the two for me: You suddenly decided lynching a lurker is bad, when one of the big 2 lurkers was scum last game. Explain. You haven't even come close from doing so, instead choosing to attack me on jokes.
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Therapist is another suspicion for reasons already mentioned by others, but I'll add my weight in asking him why he switched if he thought both votes had equal value. I'll add that he was lurker #2 on my list before the vote, so he really needs to pick up his play.
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imallinson, let's be honest here: you can't play neutrality in this situation. There were two likely lynch candidates, and they were tied. You're the tiebreaker! You owe it to the town to examine both cases and pick who dies, because one of them will die anyway, and your pick won't.
Instead, you went "nope! not getting into this". This is an "avoid blame" move, not a "find the best lynch" move. I can understand the initial switch away from Lyter, who suddenly had a better post than a lot of people in the game. I can't really understand not switching back to either him or Goss once you knew that one of them would die.
In response to the part to me, i just want to note that i find gossemerrs switch to be justified as well, i'm not sure if you read the scum qt last game but we really wanted a lurker lynch. simply cause its a free town death and you can push it well. That can easily justify that change in meta.
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Also to the people who keep saying that Lyter defended himself and thats why you flopped, no? how did he defend himself? he said that he cant defend himself and then made a case that was faulty as best.
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We weren't looking for him to fully remove all possibility of him being mafia. We were looking for him to speak. To make a case. SOME case. There's no way for him to make a strong case for himself just like we can't make a strong case AGAINST him. What would you have liked him to do to absolve himself of all wrongdoing?
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On April 06 2012 02:24 Therapist. wrote:
As I saw it, the main reason we were voting for Lyter to begin with was to apply pressure and get him to post. It was successful and he did post and he defended himself, so there was really no reason to continue voting for him since he really didn't say anything scummy at all. Therefore, both votes did not really have EQUAL value anymore. I would have liked for Gossemerr to defend himself at that point and get the conversation going, but pretty much everyone either got set on their original Lyter vote for whatever reason or just didn't show up/discuss at all before the deadline. It was an unfortunately inactive time which cost us a lack of additional information in my opinion.
DId you guys really jump on the Lyter bandwagon intending to go all the way and lynch him no matter what? I don't see what the advantage of doing that could possibly be. There's a difference between pressure moves and kill moves.
Okay, so now you're saying that the votes didnt have equal value, which is a contradiction.
Also you joined that bandwagon and it seems like you, along with the other gossemerr bandwagoners, kinda didnt read through his filter because i think it was mostly self explanatory. the case was NOT GOOD, not a good reason to flip. at least the points presented now by blueyD might make sense, but those, not so much. Gossemerr had posted much more content than Lyter, whose only content was a faulty case to save his ass. Of course Lyter didnt say anything scummy, he didnt say ANYTHING! Also, as it is plurality lynch, I dont see why you would think we were just voting to get him to talk, as we have to lynch someone and he hadnt posted anything notable, and still hadnt when he died.
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I would have liked him to post content in the first place so we didnt have to lynch him
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This is why i am so frustrated in the beginning with people not posting anything worthwhile at all. we have to lynch someone, and once we agree on a target, he isnt suddenly cleared of that vote when he posts something, simply because his behavior beforehand was not good. And especially if he just redirects attention to someone who had posted more content with 1 point that is easily defended.
Like me last game, as mafia, my meta was really bad and i was about to get lynched and then i changed it and acted helpful. had the people lynched me, the game could have been way 1 sided town.
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Ill try and add to Gossemerrs case against BlueyD. Lets start from the beginning.
BlueyD starts off with linking his filter from last game where he is a townie, Why is he so quick to defend himself, what is he so worried about? If he is a townie he should not be worried about defending himself right from the start his actions will reveal that he is a townie, he should be more focused on finding scum but instead he quickly takes charge to proclaim his innocence.
After making a joke in his first post he claims that he is "playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious." If he is just playing around before the game picks up, why does he feel the need to defend himself so early and proclaim his innocence? Perhaps it is because he is scum.
BlueyD is super focused on the meta, he explains meta for me in his next post when I ask about the relevance of the filter.
On April 03 2012 05:33 BlueyD wrote:
Here's the idea: It's sometimes possible to get hints on someone's role (green, red, blue) based on comparisons between the player's behavior in the current game and the player's behavior in previous games he has played.
So he wants us to focus on the meta and links us his previous game where he is a townie, convenient isn't it? If we focus on the meta and his meta is almost the same as last game than obviously he is innocent. He also make this joke
On April 03 2012 03:52 BlueyD wrote:
By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already?
Nahh, this is my second game ever.
Whats the point of this joke? I think hes trying to downplay his experience by saying that its only his second game, surely he cant have such an elaborate rogue if its only his second game. He later explains the reason for his jokes.
On April 06 2012 00:14 BlueyD wrote:
I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is.
Interesting that someone so focused on having fun and not being serious is so quick to defend himself at the start of the game and even giving us a filter from last game, what a nice guy. Another reason I think that he makes all these jokes is to seem innocent, Someone whos scum would never joke about being scum, right?
You can especially see this in
On April 04 2012 23:00 BlueyD wrote:
Give us something to work with, Lyter, you can still save your own life!
##Vote: Lyter
Cmon hes being so obviously overdramatic trying to make you think like he actually cares weather lyter gets lynched or not, he doesnt because he is scum.
On April 04 2012 04:44 BlueyD wrote:
This is why people threaten to lynch on lurking at the start of a game, even when they'd rather lynch on info: this is how we get information to work with in the first place. Another way is to threaten to lynch on meta, but good luck doing that in a newbie game.
So BlueyD wants us to focus on meta but then he says that its hard to do that in a newbie game? Is he just trying to waste our time? After this he attacks gross pretty aggressively based on his meta change. He seems to contradict himself a bit here because he wants to lynch people based on a meta change but than says its really hard to do in a newbie game. Whats the point of trying to lynch someone based on meta than other than to waste time and spread misinformation?
Lastly I want to talk about
On April 06 2012 04:54 BlueyD wrote:
A reminder to others that Gossemerr is not my only suspicion, and the town will quickly scope in on you if you're trying to hide or posting only fluff. Goss has an advantage over all of you guys: He's active. I'll try to take a look at our less active players tonight.
After he defends himself from gross he uses scare tactics to try to scare people into posting stuff. Maybe because grossemere is not a good target anymore since he defended his meta change. He know needs someone else to accuse in order to get the suspicion off himself.
Overall BlueyD seems pretty scummy at the moment.
##FoS: BlueyD
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Okay, now its my turn to make a case.
era
I'm going to include every one of his posts in this, so mind the spoilers if you dont want to read a lot of 1 liners without meaning. A large portion of this case is the fact that era has a ton of posts and no original content. at all.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2012 00:36 era wrote:
This BlueyD guy claiming hes a townie..I don't buy it, I think hes scum.
Pointless (joke i presume)
+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2012 04:58 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 03:52 BlueyD wrote:On April 03 2012 01:39 imallinson wrote:
You seem overly defensive. I'm just playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious. By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already? Nahh, this is my second game ever. My first game's filter can be found here: SNMM IX BlueyD filterI was townie and was in the game until the end. We lost. You can see me both on the offensive and the defensive in there, so it can be a useful resource. I won't tell you how to interpret the filter; if you're curious, go see for yourself. ---------- That's pretty much all I have to say today. Given that an inactive not voting on the last day caused our doom last game, I'm all for lynching the most inactive person unless a good case comes up. So, post your greetings and introductions, ladies! Why do you keep talking about a previous game when it has no relevance? I find your actions interesting
I went over this in an earlier post, a previous game has loads of relevance.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2012 07:53 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:33 BlueyD wrote:era said:
Why do you keep talking about a previous game when it has no relevance? I find your actions interesting Are you familiar with the concept of meta? Here's the idea: It's sometimes possible to get hints on someone's role (green, red, blue) based on comparisons between the player's behavior in the current game and the player's behavior in previous games he has played. So that's why you've been linked to my filter from my only previous game, and told roughly what happened to me there. This has relevance. ---------- As for the lower part of my post and its reference to a previous game, said game was merely an excellent example of how an inactive player can make a town lose (by not voting, and by providing some hiding space for scum), and why we should in my opinion lynch one on day 1 if no better case comes up. This is a pretty standard move in a game of mafia as well: Put pressure on people so that they remain active. I am very familiar with the concept of meta. But what if your just showing us your last game of where you played a townie so that you can act in the same way in this game, making you look innocent while really you are scum.
pointing us to previous game is good for town even if BlueyD was scum. that But what if is totally WIFOM.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2012 07:59 era wrote:
Also I agree with Nova_Terra I think we should base our lynch on information over lurkers.
Well thats kind, but agreement is not content, and its another 1 liner
[spoiler]On April 03 2012 22:00 era wrote:
Yeah i wouldn't want to Lynch a quite blue, Now if only we had some actual information.
[/spoiler
Restates someone elses stuff, 1 liner, OH IF ONLY WE HAD INFORMATION! Well, maybe there would be some information if people actually posted content. The only way to get information is by posting content yourself. Which era hasnt done
+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2012 04:34 era wrote:I am still suspicious of BlueyD, although my evidence is not very strong since there is not a lot of information. He starts off with Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 00:30 BlueyD wrote:
I'm sc... Er, I mean townie! Green townie. That's it. Don't lynch me.
Lynch Nova_Terra instead. He's scum. He proved it last game. He said he was making a joke but it seems like hes trying too hard to act like a townie. Him also linking his filter from last game where he was a townie seems like hes trying really hard to look innocent. He posts just seem fake and scummy to me.
See my earlier post in my filter about this please, IPad is hard for cases I'm going to give him half a point for content on this one.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2012 04:43 era wrote:
I thought we have to lynch someone?
Just a 1 sentence question, makes it look like hes helping
+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2012 04:51 era wrote:
No need to be an ass BlueyD
Response to BlueyD's comment, once again posting a bunch without saying anything useful
+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2012 04:57 era wrote:
Person who got the votes first is lynched
Apparently era has enough time to go and check rules and post them to be 'helpful' but not enough to tell us how hes thinking in his own words
+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2012 05:13 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:04 Nova_Terra wrote:
Era, you have 9 ingame posts and 8 of them are 1-2 liners. the other one is one where you share suspicions on BlueyD, which is weird because the things that you say make him seem a bit scummy make him seem more town. other than that, you have brought nothing new to the table and agreed with people. You seem to have the time, as you do have 9 posts, use it constructively instead of 1linering please. its scummy. Responding with LoL is pretty scummy as well.
sick defense, i went over this earlier as well, no better way to defend yourself for posting 1 liners and no content than posting a 1 liner with no content
+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2012 05:26 era wrote:
That is why i said that it wasn't very strong ><, iamallinson asked for us to share our suspicions and I did. Would you rather I not talk at all? Also someone who is scum would want to seem very pro town.
Hes saying that he was suspicious of something from WIFOM. Because apparently BlueyD wants to seem pro-town. well, of course.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 00:41 era wrote:
Hey cajun, I noticed that too, but I thought it was just bugged on my end.
Lyter seems to be a good choice not a lot of posts and hes always sleeping.
Jumping on the Wagon until he responds or something new comes up.
##Vote: Lyter
looks like the 1 liners are over, now its like compiled 1 liners without real content. Jumps on wagon, offers nothing, says hes jumping on the wagon (jumping on the wagon isnt the best thing to do).... And you cant even say that you just want to pressure him as the purpose of this wagon that you are jumping on is to get votes, and in plurality lynch you have to lynch somebody -_- Not content either
+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 04:21 era wrote:
He could also lie about being a blue in order to stay a alive couldn't he?
mhm, yeah.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 05:20 era wrote:Things are heating up. I am going to have to agree with Lyter. Grossemerrs accusation was very sudden and it was mostly based on Which Lyter propably was since he usually posts late at night and doesnt post again until around 5, which is propably when gets off work/school. ##Unvote: Lyter
##Vote: Gossemerr
This is just lol. Apparently, gossemerr's accusation was sudden and therefore we should lynch him now that lyter posted! no, you bandwagoned and [b] added nothing to gossemerr's "sudden" lynch[b] and now apparently he is a good lynch. what?
You also just said that one of the reasons to vote Lyter was that he seems to be sleeping alot, and now you are defending him with it.... Contradiction! Flopping from bandwagon to bandwagon? scum trait.
[spoiler]On April 05 2012 07:48 era wrote:Sorry I missed the last hour, I had to go workout and eat dinner. Sad that we lynched a townie, but it could have been worse. Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 07:19 Nova_Terra wrote:
Lazin, as far as statistics are concerned, it does make gossemerr more scummy xD
No, I think it doesnt make him any more scummy. Why? mafia doesnt like initiating a vote aggressively on someone they know to be town. it could be a clever ploy, but i still see that as normal town play. I don't think you can say that it doesn't make Gossemerr more suspicious just because hes being aggressive and thats not what mafia usually does, He could just be breaking the meta to not look suspicious. I think that it does make Gossemerr more of a suspect since Lyter turned out to be a townie. Also does iamallison look more suspicious since she changed her vote to lazin? Maybe to try to make herself look more innocent?
[/spoiler]
WIFOM, and saying something i already did to gain credit. not content
[spoiler]On April 05 2012 07:59 era wrote:
Also I think that anyone who voted for Lyter made a big mistake, because he actually defended himself (even if it was a weak defense), while grossemere basicly blew it off and said that he is busy and that he will defend himself later.
[/spoiler]
There was no defense, only a poor case against him and he had posted more content to begin with
[spoiler]On April 06 2012 02:25 era wrote:
In class for one more hour, will respond with a case for someone when I get back home.
[/spoiler]
Okay, good to know....
[spoiler]On April 06 2012 02:28 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 02:24 Therapist. wrote:
As I saw it, the main reason we were voting for Lyter to begin with was to apply pressure and get him to post. It was successful and he did post and he defended himself, so there was really no reason to continue voting for him since he really didn't say anything scummy at all. Therefore, both votes did not really have EQUAL value anymore. I would have liked for Gossemerr to defend himself at that point and get the conversation going, but pretty much everyone either got set on their original Lyter vote for whatever reason or just didn't show up/discuss at all before the deadline. It was an unfortunately inactive time which cost us a lack of additional information in my opinion.
DId you guys really jump on the Lyter bandwagon intending to go all the way and lynch him no matter what? I don't see what the advantage of doing that could possibly be. There's a difference between pressure moves and kill moves. I went on the Lyter bandwagon just to pressure, when Lyter defended himself I switched my vote to gross, Gross never defended himself and since there was never really a good case for Lyter I felt like everyone should have switched to Gross. Why lynch lyter vs gross if lyter actually defended himself?
[/spoiler]
Once again, there wasnt a defense... look into it, at least
[spoiler]
On April 06 2012 04:21 era wrote:Show nested quote +2. Why would I say this? If I did, then he would have no reason to really post anything of quality without being worried about being lynched. How would you saying that you will change your vote if lyter post something of quality make him not post anything of quality? I don't understand please explain yourself.
[/spoiler]
needing explanation on a point that is relatively moot...
Overall:
Eras posts lack any content, getting half a point on the Nova-Meter for content, for a malformed suspicion against blueyD. thats out of 19 ingame posts. he has the time, but isnt applying himself in any way, and is slipping by. he contradicts himself and flops his vote from bandwagon to bandwagon, then clogs the thread even more. and still doesnt add more content.
FoS: era
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Oops, that looks really ugly. Those spoilers didnt work right o.o Sorry for clogging
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On April 06 2012 05:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Also, as it is plurality lynch, I dont see why you would think we were just voting to get him to talk, as we have to lynch someone and he hadnt posted anything notable, and still hadnt when he died.
It was pretty obvious from Grossomeres post that it was just a pressure vote to get him to talk.
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On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere.
not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more
Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere".
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EBWOP: Thats a response and analysis to this post from era too
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On April 06 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere".
Gossemerr himself later responds and tells us that he thought it was pretty obvious that it was a pressure vote, I found it pretty obvious as well. There is not much pressure in a pressure vote if only 1-2 people vote, hence why i jumped on the bandwagon. The purpose of the wagon was not to get vote, the purpose was to pressure lyter.
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In response to Novas case against me. So your main points is that i provide no content and that I use wifom. You act like wifom is useless when in reality it can be useful at times. I also aperantly have too much time on my hands because I read the rules, I thought everyone was supposed to read the rules? This is my first mafia game so that is the reason for most of my one liners as there was no content I had nothing to talk about. As we get more content my posts are becoming longer than one line. Sorry for being new and not knowing exactly how this game works.
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On April 06 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere".
Nova, I think you're on the right track with most of your posts tonight. However, to be fair, saying you're voting to pressure makes the pressure of that vote less intimidating, and therefore less effective IMHO.
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On April 06 2012 06:23 era wrote:
In response to Novas case against me. So your main points is that i provide no content and that I use wifom. You act like wifom is useless when in reality it can be useful at times. I also aperantly have too much time on my hands because I read the rules, I thought everyone was supposed to read the rules? This is my first mafia game so that is the reason for most of my one liners as there was no content I had nothing to talk about. As we get more content my posts are becoming longer than one line. Sorry for being new and not knowing exactly how this game works.
You can't hide behind being new -- most of us ARE new, myself included. Posting that you're new just clogs up the thread.
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On April 06 2012 05:53 era wrote:Ill try and add to Gossemerrs case against BlueyD. Lets start from the beginning. BlueyD starts off with linking his filter from last game where he is a townie, Why is he so quick to defend himself, what is he so worried about? If he is a townie he should not be worried about defending himself right from the start his actions will reveal that he is a townie, he should be more focused on finding scum but instead he quickly takes charge to proclaim his innocence. After making a joke in his first post he claims that he is "playing around before the game really picks up and I have to be more serious." If he is just playing around before the game picks up, why does he feel the need to defend himself so early and proclaim his innocence? Perhaps it is because he is scum. BlueyD is super focused on the meta, he explains meta for me in his next post when I ask about the relevance of the filter. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:33 BlueyD wrote:
Here's the idea: It's sometimes possible to get hints on someone's role (green, red, blue) based on comparisons between the player's behavior in the current game and the player's behavior in previous games he has played.
So he wants us to focus on the meta and links us his previous game where he is a townie, convenient isn't it? If we focus on the meta and his meta is almost the same as last game than obviously he is innocent. He also make this joke Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 03:52 BlueyD wrote:
By the way, my name is BlueyD, and I've been a mafiaholic for... How many years already?
Nahh, this is my second game ever. Whats the point of this joke? I think hes trying to downplay his experience by saying that its only his second game, surely he cant have such an elaborate rogue if its only his second game. He later explains the reason for his jokes. Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 00:14 BlueyD wrote:
I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is.
Interesting that someone so focused on having fun and not being serious is so quick to defend himself at the start of the game and even giving us a filter from last game, what a nice guy. Another reason I think that he makes all these jokes is to seem innocent, Someone whos scum would never joke about being scum, right? You can especially see this in Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 23:00 BlueyD wrote:
Give us something to work with, Lyter, you can still save your own life!
##Vote: Lyter Cmon hes being so obviously overdramatic trying to make you think like he actually cares weather lyter gets lynched or not, he doesnt because he is scum. Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:44 BlueyD wrote:
This is why people threaten to lynch on lurking at the start of a game, even when they'd rather lynch on info: this is how we get information to work with in the first place. Another way is to threaten to lynch on meta, but good luck doing that in a newbie game.
So BlueyD wants us to focus on meta but then he says that its hard to do that in a newbie game? Is he just trying to waste our time? After this he attacks gross pretty aggressively based on his meta change. He seems to contradict himself a bit here because he wants to lynch people based on a meta change but than says its really hard to do in a newbie game. Whats the point of trying to lynch someone based on meta than other than to waste time and spread misinformation? Lastly I want to talk about Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 04:54 BlueyD wrote:
A reminder to others that Gossemerr is not my only suspicion, and the town will quickly scope in on you if you're trying to hide or posting only fluff. Goss has an advantage over all of you guys: He's active. I'll try to take a look at our less active players tonight.
After he defends himself from gross he uses scare tactics to try to scare people into posting stuff. Maybe because grossemere is not a good target anymore since he defended his meta change. He know needs someone else to accuse in order to get the suspicion off himself. Overall BlueyD seems pretty scummy at the moment. ##FoS: BlueyD
First part before quote is pretty much total WIFOM. and that was of course a joke, albeit not a good one by any means -_-
You dont ask about the relevance of his filter, you say its irrelevant when it is actually relevant. It may be hard to believe, but its extremely hard to keep the same meta. really really hard. its in no way scummy to like us to previous game.
You do somewhat have a point in the reasons for jokes thing. That post kind of irks me too. Your explanation for your suspicion here is still WIFOM here, though, whereas the thing about reasons bugs me because its like,
make dumb joke which has a purposely made scum slip, someone points it out as being dumb to say that kind of slip, you dont go AHA I REALLY PULLED ONE ON YOU >.> its just .... yeah.
Lyter DID havr a chance, albeit a small one, to save his live. thats not overdramatic. Just more WIFOM.
Next point, well it is of course hard to base things on meta in a newbie game when its like half of the players first game... its not really a contradiction. And meta is very very accurate. at least thats what i assume he meant, Bluey correct me if im wrong.
On your last point, come on. really? it is almost like OMGUS because you were one of the people posting nothing. There wasnt really any suspicion on him at that moment, why would he be trying to deflect suspicion from him? and who is being overdramatic (scare tactics)
All in all i am by no means close to convinced that BlueyD is inno or scum, but cases like this that are based on WIFOM and tunnel dont help me think era is town at all.
Era seems to me like either a new, tunneling townie or a scum who wantsa suspect even more focused. probably the latter.
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There wasnt really any suspicion on him at that moment, why would he be trying to deflect suspicion from him?
There wasnt really any suspicion on him at that momemnt? Grossomere just made two big posts FoSing him just before.
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On April 06 2012 06:14 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere". Gossemerr himself later responds and tells us that he thought it was pretty obvious that it was a pressure vote, I found it pretty obvious as well. There is not much pressure in a pressure vote if only 1-2 people vote, hence why i jumped on the bandwagon. The purpose of the wagon was not to get vote, the purpose was to pressure lyter.
But you dont flop off a pressure vote to someone ( who hadnt made a scum slip or big tell) who has posted more content than the person pressured....
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On April 06 2012 06:23 era wrote:
In response to Novas case against me. So your main points is that i provide no content and that I use wifom. You act like wifom is useless when in reality it can be useful at times. I also aperantly have too much time on my hands because I read the rules, I thought everyone was supposed to read the rules? This is my first mafia game so that is the reason for most of my one liners as there was no content I had nothing to talk about. As we get more content my posts are becoming longer than one line. Sorry for being new and not knowing exactly how this game works.
WIFOM is generally useless as it clogs the thread, does not give any major insights either way, provokes meaningless discussion, and confuses people. those are scummy things.
My point is that if you have time to read the rules and post clarifying them for other people you have time to produce your own content.
And then, inevitably, the Im New card. Even though your posts have become longer after we got content (which isnt content from you, by the way) they dont have much in them, although i do at least appreciate that you are at least doing something by adding to a case.
And dont say that you didnt know how it works as an excuse. you say that previous games have no relevance, how would you know if you didnt at least go through them before, etc? read a past mafia game if you dont know how it works.
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On April 06 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:14 era wrote:On April 06 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere". Gossemerr himself later responds and tells us that he thought it was pretty obvious that it was a pressure vote, I found it pretty obvious as well. There is not much pressure in a pressure vote if only 1-2 people vote, hence why i jumped on the bandwagon. The purpose of the wagon was not to get vote, the purpose was to pressure lyter. But you dont flop off a pressure vote to someone ( who hadnt made a scum slip or big tell) who has posted more content than the person pressured....
The amount of content posted by Goss and Lyter was almost the same, Just because Goss had more fluff doesnt mean that He had more content. We were pressuring lyter into talking, he talked, I switched my vote since i never though lyter was scum in the first place but getting more information out there is always a good thing. Goss didnt even bother defending himself so I kept my vote on him.
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On April 06 2012 06:33 era wrote: Show nested quote +There wasnt really any suspicion on him at that moment, why would he be trying to deflect suspicion from him? There wasnt really any suspicion on him at that momemnt? Grossomere just made two big posts FoSing him just before.
Oh, sorry, mistook the timing of that post. The rest of my analysis of that still stands, though.
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On April 06 2012 06:42 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 06 2012 06:14 era wrote:On April 06 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere". Gossemerr himself later responds and tells us that he thought it was pretty obvious that it was a pressure vote, I found it pretty obvious as well. There is not much pressure in a pressure vote if only 1-2 people vote, hence why i jumped on the bandwagon. The purpose of the wagon was not to get vote, the purpose was to pressure lyter. But you dont flop off a pressure vote to someone ( who hadnt made a scum slip or big tell) who has posted more content than the person pressured.... The amount of content posted by Goss and Lyter was almost the same, Just because Goss had more fluff doesnt mean that He had more content. We were pressuring lyter into talking, he talked, I switched my vote since i never though lyter was scum in the first place but getting more information out there is always a good thing. Goss didnt even bother defending himself so I kept my vote on him.
Disagree. Gossemerr notes that his thinking has changed, discusses thoughts about lynching lurkers, explains his thoughts about blueyD, and makes an aggressive vote.
Lyter accuses gossemerr with faulty logic.
Gossemerr posted 3 times as much content, even after lyter "defended" himself.
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On April 06 2012 06:40 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:23 era wrote:
In response to Novas case against me. So your main points is that i provide no content and that I use wifom. You act like wifom is useless when in reality it can be useful at times. I also aperantly have too much time on my hands because I read the rules, I thought everyone was supposed to read the rules? This is my first mafia game so that is the reason for most of my one liners as there was no content I had nothing to talk about. As we get more content my posts are becoming longer than one line. Sorry for being new and not knowing exactly how this game works. WIFOM is generally useless as it clogs the thread, does not give any major insights either way, provokes meaningless discussion, and confuses people. those are scummy things. My point is that if you have time to read the rules and post clarifying them for other people you have time to produce your own content. And then, inevitably, the Im New card. Even though your posts have become longer after we got content (which isnt content from you, by the way) they dont have much in them, although i do at least appreciate that you are at least doing something by adding to a case. And dont say that you didnt know how it works as an excuse. you say that previous games have no relevance, how would you know if you didnt at least go through them before, etc? read a past mafia game if you dont know how it works.
Its hard to produce content when you have never played a game before, most of the content that you and blueyD first produced is stuff that you learned from last games. You first post was just a couple of big paragraph about what happend to you last game and what you learned plus giving people tips for the current tips. Followed by some 1 liners and just stating who is posting and who is not.
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EBWOP: giving people tips for the current game.
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Also i dont consider this to be much of content
On April 03 2012 14:50 Gossemerr wrote:
Well the crickets certainly are loud...
Lyter you started this game off where are you now? Interesting that you ask who are the scummies. Maybe you know already?
As for the the others whom have not posted yet, maybe they do not know the game started?
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I know that, but you can easily go through a couple pages from a previous game to get an idea.
And, i posted and continue to post my thoughts pretty much as soon as i have them. i post my opinions and thoughts on certain people which arent brought from the game before or anything like that. I think theres plenty of content in my posting so far.
Are you trying to turn this on me?
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On April 06 2012 06:53 era wrote:Also i dont consider this to be much of content Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 14:50 Gossemerr wrote:
Well the crickets certainly are loud...
Lyter you started this game off where are you now? Interesting that you ask who are the scummies. Maybe you know already?
As for the the others whom have not posted yet, maybe they do not know the game started?
me neither, but he had already posted that content
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On April 06 2012 06:25 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 04 2012 09:16 Gossemerr wrote:Alright I think seviro does not know the game started or something considering no posts. Lyter on the other had has not said much of anything. Response to me asking why he asked who is scum: On April 03 2012 17:17 Lyter wrote:
Well I was doing this called sleeping :D but then nothing else. Lyter why do you think BlueyD is playing so aggressive right now? ##Vote: LyterGotta start somewhere. not so much, nowhere does he say its for pressure, and is voting because he hasnt said anything, instead of voting to get him to say more Also i dont see where he could go from here because you shouldnt flop so easily and we do have to lynch someone, as gossemerr says with "Gotta start somewhere". Nova, I think you're on the right track with most of your posts tonight. However, to be fair, saying you're voting to pressure makes the pressure of that vote less intimidating, and therefore less effective IMHO.
Hi lazin, sorry, totally missed this.
Okay, fair enough, however just seeing a vote on you as mafia is a terriblly scary feeling.
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EBWOP: Please post more Lazin, I think your posting isnt bad at all, but you are slipping by somewhat.
Bocki, you too, if you are here. you need to post more, even more than Lazin. too much slipping by going on all around.
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Day 2![[image loading]](http://image.yaymicro.com/rz_1210x1210/0/9b3/grazing-flock-of-goats-9b3f1d.jpg)
After Lyter's brutal execution, the sheep quickly grew tired and decided to take an early night, and they each went to their own part of the great grassy plains on Asgard. The grass was tall making it hard for the goats to see eachother, but the soft grass made for such a nice cushion that they didn't really care, especially after a hard day of being turned into goats and ramming an innocent god into oblivion.
As most goats fell asleep, Loki and Fenrir did not and walked off to an area where they could transform safely. imallinson was also still awake, building a new door in the goat tower for use as a mini-prison. He suddenly heard a noise behind him. The sound of paws climbing a tower. It didn't worry imallinson that much as he continued working on the door, until an all too familiar voice said "is that for me? Aw, you shouldn't have." imallinson quickly turned around and saw Loki and Fenrir right behind him. Fenrir grabbed him with his jaws and jumped down the goat tower, letting imallinson land on his face, which shattered instantly. After death, he turned back into his normal god body, and it turned out they had killed Baldr, the second son of Odin.
imallinson the Jailkeeper has been murdered!
Day has begun! It will last until 21:59 GMT (+00:00) on Saturday April 7th.
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On April 06 2012 06:54 Nova_Terra wrote:
I know that, but you can easily go through a couple pages from a previous game to get an idea.
And, i posted and continue to post my thoughts pretty much as soon as i have them. i post my opinions and thoughts on certain people which arent brought from the game before or anything like that. I think theres plenty of content in my posting so far.
Are you trying to turn this on me?
Not trying to turn this on you, but what im saying is theres no point for me to post stuff like this and this and this person are lurkers because they havent posted if someone else already has.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Farewell cruel world and such.
Hope you can root those scum out.
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Interesting.. how did they know that imallinson was a blue? I need to go back and look through the filters and see if he made a blueslip somewhere. Or did they just get lucky? Also he accused lazin before he died, does this mean anything?
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UGH... Jailkeeper... that damn hurts. kinda makes his lack of posting make a bit more sense.
That sucks.
I'm goingto stop clogging the thread with era and my discussion for now, but everything still stands and the case has not been defended sufficiently yet.
I'll go over imallinson's filter tomorrow morning, and see if there is anything of note. Seeya then guys
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On April 06 2012 07:05 era wrote:
Interesting.. how did they know that imallinson was a blue? I need to go back and look through the filters and see if he made a blueslip somewhere. Or did they just get lucky? Also he accused lazin before he died, does this mean anything?
He didn't have a night to use his blue power to gain any info on me, and even if he did all it would've done is roleblock me.
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On April 06 2012 06:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: Please post more Lazin, I think your posting isnt bad at all, but you are slipping by somewhat.
Bocki, you too, if you are here. you need to post more, even more than Lazin. too much slipping by going on all around.
I agree, I do need to post more. I'm not sure where to stand right now, but I will think about it and make a post later this evening.
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I dont see anything in imallinsons filter besides him being worried about lynching a quite blue and accusing lazin for wanting a blue outing. I am guessing that mafia just got lucky since this doesn't seem like enough to think that he was a blue. Whats their motive for killing iamallinson then?, since I dont think they coudve known that he was a blue. Id like to hear from some other people since it seems like its just the same people talking. Going to dinner be back later
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Man that's pretty lucky by mafia to get the jailkeeper. I have an event this evening, but I'll post an analysis of some kind tonight in 4 or 5 hours.
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On April 06 2012 04:21 era wrote:Show nested quote +2. Why would I say this? If I did, then he would have no reason to really post anything of quality without being worried about being lynched. How would you saying that you will change your vote if lyter post something of quality make him not post anything of quality? I don't understand please explain yourself.
Say I was being pressured by votes. If I new that all I had to do was make a post and then the heat would be off I would do it without any problem as a scum. I would much rather see their raw reaction and defense to the pressure. I don't know if I can explain it better than that.
On April 06 2012 04:54 BlueyD wrote:
My reply to Goss, let's make this short this time... Hah, who am I kidding.
I would imagine last game is what makes the difference in your views on lynching lurkers, hence why I'm not looking at what you've played before that. If the defining events had happened before that, then your stance would also have changed before that, and you wouldn't be saying "I've changed my mind!" this game. If at least we had lynched a 'hardcore lurker' last game and he had turned out to be townie, then I would have understood you're changing due to an accumulation of events, with last game at the turning point.
But the guy we lynched wasn't a 'hardcore lurker', to use your term. He posted a lot! I would say our 2 D1 lynch candidates (both townies) were on the chopping block due to terrible play (useless lists, spammy 2-liners, bad logic, strange voting pattern in one case, etc), not really due to lurking. They had legit cases on their butts day 1, unlike lurkers that just get lynched because "well, he's not posting much at all". Meanwhile, one of the 2 hardcore lurkers that game turned out to be scum after all.
So that's why I keep 'repeating': I'm not entirely satisfied with 2 parts of your explanation.
1. The part where you consider games other than the last, which couldn't possibly be the catalyst for your switch now.
2. The part where you describe last game's day 1 as a lurker lynch when it wasn't.
Nova might call this a 'tiny part of your metagame' but it still seems strange to me.
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The important part isn't the jokes, it's the analysis. I'm more at ease this game so I let myself joke around a little at the start/end of posts, but otherwise I would imagine the core of my posts - what you're supposed to be looking at most and taking seriously - looks about the same, and I'm still scumhunting actively.
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A reminder to others that Gossemerr is not my only suspicion, and the town will quickly scope in on you if you're trying to hide or posting only fluff. Goss has an advantage over all of you guys: He's active. I'll try to take a look at our less active players tonight.
I'm out for now, back later.
Okay first of all, I'm going to be real there is difference between joking around, and make "jokes" which you know will piss people off. This takes away from your credibility in my opinion to be quite honest when trying to persuade people. Also, these things just add clutter anyways as I already stated. Next, how could my other game of prior experience not factor into my decisions? I explained my position in my first post, its not like I tried to hide it or something. D1 last game started as a lurker / one liner poster; who pretty much failed at defending by not doing it.
Moving on:
Well this night hit blows. I don't understand the following post my Lazin:
On April 06 2012 07:11 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 07:05 era wrote:
Interesting.. how did they know that imallinson was a blue? I need to go back and look through the filters and see if he made a blueslip somewhere. Or did they just get lucky? Also he accused lazin before he died, does this mean anything? He didn't have a night to use his blue power to gain any info on me, and even if he did all it would've done is roleblock me.
Why did you say this? Imallinson never said he had any information on you. This seems really defensive. Roleblock you? I'm pretty sure Nova just meant that since he accused you -> is that the reason he died?
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I thought era meant that imallinson turning up blue implied that somehow I was more "scummy". That interpretation is ludicrous because nothing he could've done as jailkeeper would've indicated that I'm suspicious.
I personally think the mafia just got very lucky to pick imallinson, and there is virtually no other info we can gain as far as I can tell. I propose that we drop it the implications of him dying and move on to more substantial matters.
I'm personally confused and haven't really been able to come up with a good case against anybody. Unless somebody has some amazing read to gain from the mafia hitting imallinson (I doubt it), it doesn't make any sense to me to dwell on these issues, and I think any more discussion of such triviality indicates a lack of desire to move forward, ergo indicates scuminess.
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BlueyD, can you give us your "other suspicions?" I'd like to hear your case if you can articulate your reasons.
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About the night hit: They picked the guy who stood back but offered a bit of content here and there, and said the most stuff about blues and roleclaiming… That fits the blue profile very well, actually. Basically, it seems to me they went with their strongest blue read and it worked.
It’s funny that era sees this, identifies it… and then goes “nahhhh, that can’t be it”, when to me that seems to be exactly it.
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On era: For that post about the scumhit, era went through imallinson’s filter in a whole 15 minutes and brought out all the important parts before dismissing his own findings. It’s hard for me to believe that he 1. has the skill to see that by himself and bring it all out in a relatively short time, yet 2. is so bad that he dismissed it all when he was right on the spot. That's a very small window of skill... Which makes me think he might have known what to look for ahead of time.
In general, it’s as Nova says: This guy is obviously paying attention to the game (rules, filters, thread), but then he turns around with mostly one-liners, and he’s using so much WIFOM/bad logic it’s almost a parody. He’s a very tempting lynch indeed.
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On the lurker side, my pick for “needs to step it up” at this moment is our friend Bocki, whose filter is devoid of any analysis made by himself, and who no one seems to be talking about so I gotta bring him up. I see 3 things in there:
-Proposes a mathematical post-counting method for determining who the biggest lurker is
-Votes for Lyter, like everyone else
-Some generic stuff about roleclaiming
- Listens to Goss about me, then says “yeah”
There’s a lot less spam than era there, but there isn’t more content. I'm not sure there's any content, really, and yet no one pays attention to him and he flies right under the radar.
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In full agreement with BlueyD here, especially regarding that Bocki needs to step it up. He makes like 1 post when i'm around, and then i think hes active, but upon approaching his filter >.>
I hope to see some analysis from Bocki, and i want to see some sort of large post made by lazincajun. preferably Bocki's best scum reads, and a filter analysis, and for lazin i think he should find someone who he is getting good town vibes/bad scum vibes from and try to explain why. with filter of course. And both of them weighing in on the current situations may be nice.
Okay, so, heres where we stand. today, we have 5 town aligned people, and 2 scum. Today is what i consider the most pivotal point in the game. why?
1. If we lynch scum, they are down to one scum left and we have a filter to work with, and a huge insight into their mind, the last scum isnt getting any advice and town has the time to sort things out, scum would have to bring it to a 2-1 scenario
2. If we lynch town, everybody is hella confused, night kill could totally screw our brains, and bar a sick blue save (if we even have another blue) we would be in a LYLO, and not have much time for analysis/new thoughts to be brought up.
Therefore, I suggest that we think hard today about our scummiest read and vote for them. Not go for a lynch which gives us information (which screwed town over last game on the very same day) but go for the most likely lynch to hit scum.
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Actually, therapist also has a small filter, and he said he'd post an analysis like 5 hours ago >.> i want to see that.
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I will be posting a case in a few hours, we have a family party here at my house.
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On April 06 2012 14:49 BlueyD wrote:
About the night hit: They picked the guy who stood back but offered a bit of content here and there, and said the most stuff about blues and roleclaiming… That fits the blue profile very well, actually. Basically, it seems to me they went with their strongest blue read and it worked.
It’s funny that era sees this, identifies it… and then goes “nahhhh, that can’t be it”, when to me that seems to be exactly it.
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On era: For that post about the scumhit, era went through imallinson’s filter in a whole 15 minutes and brought out all the important parts before dismissing his own findings. It’s hard for me to believe that he 1. has the skill to see that by himself and bring it all out in a relatively short time, yet 2. is so bad that he dismissed it all when he was right on the spot. That's a very small window of skill... Which makes me think he might have known what to look for ahead of time.
In general, it’s as Nova says: This guy is obviously paying attention to the game (rules, filters, thread), but then he turns around with mostly one-liners, and he’s using so much WIFOM/bad logic it’s almost a parody. He’s a very tempting lynch indeed.
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On the lurker side, my pick for “needs to step it up” at this moment is our friend Bocki, whose filter is devoid of any analysis made by himself, and who no one seems to be talking about so I gotta bring him up. I see 3 things in there:
-Proposes a mathematical post-counting method for determining who the biggest lurker is
-Votes for Lyter, like everyone else
-Some generic stuff about roleclaiming
- Listens to Goss about me, then says “yeah”
There’s a lot less spam than era there, but there isn’t more content. I'm not sure there's any content, really, and yet no one pays attention to him and he flies right under the radar.
Imallisons filter is not long, its not hard to go through it in less than 10 minutes. Also I dont think him saying 1 or 2 things about a blue is enough for them to get a blue read off him. You could be right about them just going for the person they had the most evidence for, and getting lucky since they only other person that ever mentioned a blue was lazin, and he wanted them to role claim.
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EBWOP: BlueyD you seem to know the profile of a blue and how to read for them? Maybe you already knew he was a blue before he got killed?
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Ok, here is my case against BlueyD:
On April 06 2012 04:54 BlueyD wrote:
...and I'm still scumhunting actively...
...A reminder to others that Gossemerr is not my only suspicion...
Firstly, you are not really scumhunting, all you do is suspect Gossemeer. Yes, you noticed Therapist and iamallinson in 4 lines, but the majority of posts is against Gossemeer. Is can not really be called scumhunting.
On April 06 2012 14:49 BlueyD wrote:
About the night hit: They picked the guy who stood back but offered a bit of content here and there, and said the most stuff about blues and roleclaiming… That fits the blue profile very well, actually. Basically, it seems to me they went with their strongest blue read and it worked.
It’s funny that era sees this, identifies it… and then goes “nahhhh, that can’t be it”, when to me that seems to be exactly it.
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On era: For that post about the scumhit, era went through imallinson’s filter in a whole 15 minutes and brought out all the important parts before dismissing his own findings. It’s hard for me to believe that he 1. has the skill to see that by himself and bring it all out in a relatively short time, yet 2. is so bad that he dismissed it all when he was right on the spot. That's a very small window of skill... Which makes me think he might have known what to look for ahead of time.
In general, it’s as Nova says: This guy is obviously paying attention to the game (rules, filters, thread), but then he turns around with mostly one-liners, and he’s using so much WIFOM/bad logic it’s almost a parody. He’s a very tempting lynch indeed.
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On the lurker side, my pick for “needs to step it up” at this moment is our friend Bocki, whose filter is devoid of any analysis made by himself, and who no one seems to be talking about so I gotta bring him up. I see 3 things in there:
-Proposes a mathematical post-counting method for determining who the biggest lurker is
-Votes for Lyter, like everyone else
-Some generic stuff about roleclaiming
- Listens to Goss about me, then says “yeah”
There’s a lot less spam than era there, but there isn’t more content. I'm not sure there's any content, really, and yet no one pays attention to him and he flies right under the radar.
After noticing iamallinson's indecision to vote for either lyter or gosse, you now say that it was obvious blue play. How come you didnt say that before? Instead you now blame era for reading it before and then dismissing it. Thats almost as if you slipped a little disappointment that era did not come through with his opinion that iamallinson was blue. But who else but scum wants to know who is blue?
On my personal accusation: Yes, I did not post very much on Day1, since its impossible to really read something on D1. I took on the mathematical reasoning because it was at least an indicator. Sure, it did not go well since that killed a townie, but since we had to vote, I would rather use a mathematical approach than something like jokes. Because then, you would have been higher on the list. Well, maybe that would have been the better choice...
Gossemeers case against you was good, so I didnt have much else to say but "yes, that is a good case." Now, since you pratically pushed me for it, I had to write my own analysis of your behaviour. But thats okay, since it is true that I did not make a case until now.
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As a summary: I think BlueyD is trying to make gossemeer look bad, constantly attacking him. Why, I cant say, maybe he's townie and read something in gosses posts that I didnt see, or he is scum and wants us to lynch gosse so he can choose another target for a nightly kill. Maybe it's because gosse has made some good analysis about BlueyD and he wants to get rid of him. If it's about that, I think his next "victims" will be lazin or nova.
I hope that was good enough
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On April 06 2012 13:57 LazinCajun wrote:
...I propose that we drop it the implications of him dying and move on to more substantial matters...
...Unless somebody has some amazing read to gain from the mafia hitting imallinson (I doubt it), it doesn't make any sense to me to dwell on these issues, and I think any more discussion of such triviality indicates a lack of desire to move forward, ergo indicates scuminess.
A blue gets whacked and you do not want to see why? Or talk about why? And that after he attacked you and died instantly after this?
That sounds a bit weird to me. I dont know what to think of it now, really, but ... its weird...
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Gonna be watching IPL4 but i want to note that i think Lazin saying to forget about the blue death is more so that we dont delve into endless WIFOM which wont help.
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Reply to Bocki
Firstly, you are not really scumhunting, all you do is suspect Gossemeer. Yes, you noticed Therapist and iamallinson in 4 lines, but the majority of posts is against Gossemeer. Is can not really be called scumhunting.
Why not? Am I supposed to spare my time equally among everyone, even those I find less suspicious? I wanted some info on why Goss was switching metagame, so I had to spend some time on him, and no one else was talking so it’s not like I could analyse anyone else’s stuff. For instance, you had to be called out before you even posted an analysis of your own.
After noticing iamallinson's indecision to vote for either lyter or gosse, you now say that it was obvious blue play. How come you didnt say that before? Instead you now blame era for reading it before and then dismissing it. Thats almost as if you slipped a little disappointment that era did not come through with his opinion that iamallinson was blue. But who else but scum wants to know who is blue?
Why didn’t I say that before when? I said it in my FIRST POST AFTER THE HIT. Am I supposed to mention he looks blue before he gets hit? I’m not gonna call out a blue before he gets killed, that would be the scummiest thing to do.
And to be honest, I also didn’t notice he looked the bluest of all of us before the lynch, I saw it after the fact while looking at the filters and era’s post. Why didn’t I see it before? Because I was looking for reds, not for blues. I also never said he looked obviously blue (I could only see it myself after the fact), I said I could see how he would be the mafia’s strongest blue read (aka bluer than the others; they were probably actively looking for a blue), and that’s likely why they lynched him.
On my personal accusation: Yes, I did not post very much on Day1, since its impossible to really read something on D1. I took on the mathematical reasoning because it was at least an indicator. Sure, it did not go well since that killed a townie, but since we had to vote, I would rather use a mathematical approach than something like jokes. Because then, you would have been higher on the list. Well, maybe that would have been the better choice...
Gossemeers case against you was good, so I didnt have much else to say but "yes, that is a good case." Now, since you pratically pushed me for it, I had to write my own analysis of your behaviour. But thats okay, since it is true that I did not make a case until now.
1. The main reason it was difficult to read much on day 1 is that people like you weren’t posting. You’ve got your causality backwards.
2. I didn’t “practically” push you for it, I downright pushed you for it. And you sound like you wouldn’t have written a case if I hadn’t pressured you. You didn't do it to help town, you did it because you 'had to'? That’s scummy.
The rest of this is you trying to justify not posting much/posting fluff.
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As a summary: I think BlueyD is trying to make gossemeer look bad, constantly attacking him. Why, I cant say, maybe he's townie and read something in gosses posts that I didnt see, or he is scum and wants us to lynch gosse so he can choose another target for a nightly kill. Maybe it's because gosse has made some good analysis about BlueyD and he wants to get rid of him. If it's about that, I think his next "victims" will be lazin or nova.
That’s shoddy logic again, I attacked him before he attacked me; He even defended my jokes as obvious jokes in his early posts, before changing his mind on that only after I attacked him. I could easily have backed off earlier than I did and looked less suspicious if I had wanted to, especially since I wasn’t getting much of a following there, but there’s info I wanted, so I had to push him to get it.
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What annoys me most about Bocki's post here: Bocki’s is not apologetic about his inactivity at all! Instead, he seems a bit angry that I’m bringing him out of the shadows, as if he wants to stay there.
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Sorry about the delay on this post. My local Verizon decided to give out last night and put a damper on my plans for the evening. Anyway, my analysis thus far is as follows.
4. Gossemerr
Gossemerr started out not wanting to lynch a lurker. But as the inactivity of the day went on, he felt a need to get some activity going, so he voted for a lurker. I now see this not as a contradiction, but just as annoyance that no one was posting anything. This has been a rather lurky bunch, so I don't blame him. It is confusing however that he didn't change his vote once Lyter replied, but he claims being unavailable. I agree with his decision to apply some pressure... and it is even more understandable that he didn't change his vote since now that I remember it would have made him get voted off. I am leaning towards Townie for Gossemerr.
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5. BlueyD
BlueyD is really going after Gossemerr for no particular reason. I personally voted Gossemerr day one because of the mild contradiction he made and Lyter's defense of himself. It was the only other place I could really go. But then after that and rethinking about it, Gossemerr made a lot more sense to me and there was no major contradiction in his decision making. BlueyD has no such opinion and immediately sets his sights on Gossemerr, writing out an attack against him. I'm not sure why this attack is necessary, because there was really no scum behavior from Gossemerr. You seem awfully focused on someone who took the lead in getting information for us. You poke in at me for changing my vote on day one. Doesn't really make sense for you to be suspicious of me for it, but I guess that's the nature of the game. I feel like your posts are over accusatory at this point with very little information to go by. This makes me suspicious of you.
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6.LazinCajun
I can't get too much of a read on LazinCajun because he came late to the game and has a very short filter. At the same time, he's mostly staying out of things. He's making some posts here and there replying to things, but none of them have any real content. He's basically just saying over and over again that he has no opinion. I would really like to hear what he has to say based on looking through peoples' filters. As such, I can just say that I think he is suspiciously laying low.
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7. Era
Era posts very little content for awhile, and then goes into what is in my opinion a shoddy argument against BlueyD. I think that you can make an argument against BlueyD, but I don't think his post really has anything meaningful to say. I agree that it's strange to be joking and such like he is, but I dont' see why he shouldn't. People can have whatever flavor they want really and we can't really get a read from the fact that he's having a little fun with his posts. Most of the argument has to do with his flavor, but he also claims a contradiction when BlueyD talks about threatening based on meta being difficult in a newbie game. It makes sense because there's either 1. No history to work with, or 2. Not enough experience to recognize behaviors as they apply to the game. I don't think era is necessarily scummy, but his posts really don't seem to have too much meaning outside of some little tidbits here and there.
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8. Bocki
He was practically completely silent day one, letting people find their own way to a green and then jumping on the bandwagon as it came up. Everything is "okay, I agree" for whatever case people are making up until it's against him. If he continues to mostly just jump on bandwagons, I will get more suspicious. As of right now, I am in the middle on Bocky.
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9. Nova_Terra
By far the most active poster who seems to spend a bit too much time critisizing the style of responses rather than providing meaningful analysis of the responses. At the same time, he does provide lots of analysis and keeps the conversation going quite effectively. I would be sad to see him lynched purely on the basis that he keeps things moving. Plus, I don't think his efforts to draw attention to himself and expose so many other people are very scummy. I think Nova is pretty town at this point.
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In response to Therapist.
BlueyD says that
Gossemerr, I'm being attacked for making jokes now, really? I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is. Grats, you did.
I don't think that his jokes is just flavor. He makes jokes because he wants people to accuse him? Why would he want this? Its a total waste of time and makes no sense if hes a townie. If he is scum it allows him to discredit accusations and gain town favor while doing it. Ill admit its a risky strategy for a mafia since hes putting attention on him. I still find him suspicious.
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Lazin what do you think about therapists analysis? You should post something because right now you are the lurkiest person out there imo and like therapist said you seem to be trying to suspiciously lay low.
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I'm just in for a minute before bed, but i just wanted to note a couple things relating to Therapists analysis,
When you say that Lazin has a very short filter, i find that funny as your filter is actually shorter, and had little content as well. You've also only really agreed with people, jumped on bandwagons, defended yourself for jumping on said bandwagons, responded etc. not much content has been driven by you, aside from this post here, which is actually pretty decent. After doing something similar last game as scum, i was inclined to note that your type of analysis chosen was a bit scummy as it isnt actually posting pieces of filter and you could easily say things about fellow mafia without having to back them up etc. However you do have some pretty good points in there, and that changes my perception of it slightly.
Therapist, could you do a filter analysis of a player? It could help me determine my thoughts on you so far, a lot.
when you say that i spend a bit too much time criticizing the style of responses do you mean like how i keep bringing up how era keeps posting WIFOM and 1 liners and how certain defenses have been bad? I may have gone a little overboard, but i definitely feel that those things should be noted as being scummy, and it especially bothers me when they seem ignored by the very players i direct them at. so i keep bringing it up.
I will be voting tomorrow morning depending on any developments if they happen, and will be back later in the day to *possibly* change it.
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And nah, i still think bocki is kinda the lurkiest, although as a result not the most suspicious at all...
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On April 07 2012 00:14 era wrote:
EBWOP: BlueyD you seem to know the profile of a blue and how to read for them? Maybe you already knew he was a blue before he got killed?
WAIT before i go i just noticed this gem.
i find this funny, it really looks to me that era is trying very very hard to make blueyd seem suspicious. just look.
I'm not sure what is worse, the constant WIFOM, the fact that blues are generally classified as holding back to avoid drawing attention to themselves, or my personal favorite, that you cant know who a blue if even if you are mafia(you have just as good a shot at guessing if you are town)
Era seems to be trying sooo hard to get blueyd lynched. even if it doesnt quite make sense and is entirely WIFOM. At this point, if era is scum, blueyD isnt, at least in my mind. tomorrow i'm going to see if that makes sense the other way around.
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On April 07 2012 09:21 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 00:14 era wrote:
EBWOP: BlueyD you seem to know the profile of a blue and how to read for them? Maybe you already knew he was a blue before he got killed? WAIT before i go i just noticed this gem. i find this funny, it really looks to me that era is trying very very hard to make blueyd seem suspicious. just look. I'm not sure what is worse, the constant WIFOM, the fact that blues are generally classified as holding back to avoid drawing attention to themselves, or my personal favorite, that you cant know who a blue if even if you are mafia(you have just as good a shot at guessing if you are town) Era seems to be trying sooo hard to get blueyd lynched. even if it doesnt quite make sense and is entirely WIFOM. At this point, if era is scum, blueyD isnt, at least in my mind. tomorrow i'm going to see if that makes sense the other way around.
Of course I am trying to Lynch someone that I think is mafia.. Its my job.
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On the "he didnt say much on day1 to help the town": What does saying much on Day1 help the town? Thats my point that I made in my case.
BlueyD: As you can read from my case, I do not have much on you that I can read, thats why I didnt want to do my case right now, but I felt pushed, thats why I did it now. I wanted to find out more about you, but I didnt want your accusations be left in the room. When I notice something else about you, I will of course write it. I just wanted to assemble some more info. You defended that, well done.
You attacked gosse, I supported him, now you go after me. Thats not "making a good case", thats panic.
Nova: I dont think that I am the lurkiest, I think Lazin is.
Therapist: I wasnt completely silent on day1 and I didnt just let the town find a green. I proposed the mathematical solution, since it was better than just read into the 4/5 posts that each player wrote. It endet in a green getting killed, but that odd was 7:2, so I dont think it was completely unreasonable.
And again BlueyD: You should really consider to make a defense post. Not specially against me but against all the others as well. Therapist, gosse and era listed you as suspicious. If you are town, I'd hate to lynch you because then I would make myself really suspicious, but my feeling is still that you are mafia.
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Everybody is making arguments based on posts, so after doing that I thought I'd take a closer look at voting patterns to see if we're missing anything there. Plus, I tend to be better at logic than reading people, so it made the most sense to analyze votes to me.
At first I was a little weary of posting this, since it may tip the mafia off about avoiding suspicious voting patterns. I realized that in order to avoid those suspicious voting patterns, the mafia may end up not ganging up on an innocent in the future, strengthening the town's position anyway, so here goes!
Here is my summary of Day 1 voting:
--Gossemer votes Lyter: This looks like a pressure vote to get things started. When lyter turns up green, it *may* throw some suspicion on Gossemer, but I didn't think it particularly did.
--Nova votes Lyter based on Lyter's lack of posting. No surprise.
--Imallinson votes Lyter "seeing as there isn't a better option at the moment" (bandwagony?)
--Bocki votes Lyter "Good as any" (bandwagony?)
--BlueyD votes Lyter, but encourages him to defend himself
--era votes Lyter (repeats nova's reasoning, bandwagony)
--Therapist votes Lyter
--I hop on the bandwagon for Lyter reluctantly since he still hadn't posted a defense.
--Lyter posts, votes Gossemerr
--imallinson unvotes lyter, votes me, presumably because i want to "out a blue" (and he turns up blue ) Looking back on it, this could have come of to the mafia as paranoia about somebody outing a blue, and may be why he got killed night 1.
--Within 3 minutes of each other, era and therapist unvote lyter and vote gossemerr.
--A couple minutes later (very close to the deadline now) BlueyD votes Lyter.
Just looking at the order, I found it interesting that era and therapist voted lyter back to back, then switched to gossemerr so quickly. It's likely a coincidence, but an interesting anomaly considering their switch to gossemerr occured within 3 minutes of each other, which could suggest they agreed to something in a PM then voted. This argument is weakened by the fact that they voted close to the deadline (~40 minutes before) when likely lots of people were considering changing their vote and reading the thread.
Final Day 1 votes:
Gossemerr: era / therapist / lyter(Town) / blueyD
Lyter: Gossemer / Nova / Bocki / me
LazinCajun: imallinson(Town)
If you operate under the assumption that day 1 the mafia will vote together (not necessarily a good assumption! If both gossemer and lyter are truly town, the mafia knew this and would've won no matter who gets lynched, and it may have been beneficial for them to split their votes to defuse suspicion).
Looking at the voters who ended up on Lyter:
I know that I'm town, and I strongly suspect that Nova is town. Various people have aired their suspicions of both Gossemer and Bocki which I won't repeat here, and this would seem to connect them.
Looking at the voters who ended up voting Gossemerr:
I argued above that era and therapist seem to be linked as well in swapping to Gossemerr with their strange post timings, but TBH I'm not sure that the mafia would have a strong motivation to switch off of Lyter.
In Summary: Based on voting patterns, I believe that either Gossemer and Bocki may be linked as scum, or that a two out of era / therapist / blueyD are linked as scum. Based on the strange post timings, I think it's more likely that era and therapist would be connected than BlueyD.
The next thing I plan on doing is going through people's posted suspicions carefully -- at first looking only at who they accuse, not with my own interpretations / suspicions -- and seeing if I can use it to augment this argument.
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Holy cow, that was a bigger post than I realized.
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Argh, I meant to bold this in my long post
(snip)
--era votes Lyter (repeats nova's reasoning, bandwagony)
--Therapist votes Lyter
(snip)
--Within 3 minutes of each other, era and therapist unvote lyter and vote gossemerr.
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Wow.
Connection cases are generally not good, however, that was pretty great, i think. Its actually rather original too, i love it.
Also, i noticed a possible connection between era and Therapist as well. Which is why i asked Therapist about his thoughts on era, and the answer i got back was okay, but really didnt say anything either way. Which you cant really base a case off of, but a null read can be a scummy thing to post. Back to back flip flopping from bandwagon to bandwagon... its not exactly something i would suspect two mafia would plan to do, as its inherently scummy, but it definitely doesnt look good. And then theres his recent thing with brief analysis. some points are good, but others are just.... come on.
How does era not seem scummy right now?after my cases and other analysis which he barely defended at all, i definitely think you have to be trying hard to NOT find him scummy.
So right now, i think that one of BlueyD and Era are scum. if its era, then therapist is also likely to be scum. Not definitely, but more suspicious for sure. this is because era has been going at BlueyD from the beginning, and BlueyD fights back a bit when he can. As it is very important to get a mafia lynch today, era is my best read and i will be voting for him shortly. also we get some good information.
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On April 07 2012 09:27 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 09:21 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 07 2012 00:14 era wrote:
EBWOP: BlueyD you seem to know the profile of a blue and how to read for them? Maybe you already knew he was a blue before he got killed? WAIT before i go i just noticed this gem. i find this funny, it really looks to me that era is trying very very hard to make blueyd seem suspicious. just look. I'm not sure what is worse, the constant WIFOM, the fact that blues are generally classified as holding back to avoid drawing attention to themselves, or my personal favorite, that you cant know who a blue if even if you are mafia(you have just as good a shot at guessing if you are town) Era seems to be trying sooo hard to get blueyd lynched. even if it doesnt quite make sense and is entirely WIFOM. At this point, if era is scum, blueyD isnt, at least in my mind. tomorrow i'm going to see if that makes sense the other way around. Of course I am trying to Lynch someone that I think is mafia.. Its my job.
Do you not understand the point i am making? If you are town, you do not tunnel someone to the point that your arguments dont make sense, and if you are mafia then you are trying to put a load of extra suspicion on an innocent townie, and you are probably hoping this gets buried.
Final nail in the coffin.
##Vote: era
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On April 07 2012 09:49 Bocki wrote:
On the "he didnt say much on day1 to help the town": What does saying much on Day1 help the town? Thats my point that I made in my case.
BlueyD: As you can read from my case, I do not have much on you that I can read, thats why I didnt want to do my case right now, but I felt pushed, thats why I did it now. I wanted to find out more about you, but I didnt want your accusations be left in the room. When I notice something else about you, I will of course write it. I just wanted to assemble some more info. You defended that, well done.
You attacked gosse, I supported him, now you go after me. Thats not "making a good case", thats panic.
Nova: I dont think that I am the lurkiest, I think Lazin is.
Therapist: I wasnt completely silent on day1 and I didnt just let the town find a green. I proposed the mathematical solution, since it was better than just read into the 4/5 posts that each player wrote. It endet in a green getting killed, but that odd was 7:2, so I dont think it was completely unreasonable.
And again BlueyD: You should really consider to make a defense post. Not specially against me but against all the others as well. Therapist, gosse and era listed you as suspicious. If you are town, I'd hate to lynch you because then I would make myself really suspicious, but my feeling is still that you are mafia.
Its not a matter of thinking one way or another. You ARE the lurkiest, and statistics prove that if you check filters. Other than that, this defense is decent, i would say
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Lazin:
Good analysis. I like the connection stuff (although of course I dont like my upcoming in it, but at least you held by the facts).
I only have one correction:
--Bocki votes Lyter "Good as any" (bandwagony?)
Thats not completely true. I said "good as any" in combination with my mathematical approach. Seviro had the least posts (1 post I think). Gossemeer had 3 posts when I did my vote, lyter had 4. That was the reason why I said "good as any", as in "4 posts are as good as 3 posts".
I dont blame you for pointing this out, since it came up 2/3 times now. I hope its clear now why I said it.
And about the bandwagony: I proposed the mathematical approach and proposed seviro (that would have been modkilled if he didnt vote at all) or gossemeer. I wanted to hear from the rest if they want to do the mathematical approach or if someone found something. Since the first vote was lyter and he only had 1 post more than my idea, I was fine with it.
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After reading it again and going through the filters, I think Lazin is onto something with the BlueyD, era, Therapist connection.
I will go with my gut feeling:
##Vote: BlueyD
Happy Easter Saturday to all of you
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In terms of voting connections, the times I've posted closely to others are merely a coincidence of when I've refreshed the thread. If I were mafia, would I not seek to delay and prevent such connections because of arguments like these coming up? Perhaps I would avoid sharing a vote with the partner in crime altogether if enough people jumped on the bandwagon.
Either way, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to post close to the deadline today unfortunately, but I will try to use my phone to do so. Just to make sure that I get a vote in, I will cast a vote for BlueyD in the meantime, but this does not mean that he is my set-in-stone read for this voting period nor does it mean I am totally convinced his being scum. I intend to keep up and potentially change if the need arises. I simply need to go with my strongest read for the time being to make sure I'm not modkilled.
##Vote: BlueyD
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Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
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Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
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era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
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I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum.
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On April 07 2012 22:38 Bocki wrote:
Lazin:
Good analysis. I like the connection stuff (although of course I dont like my upcoming in it, but at least you held by the facts).
I only have one correction:
--Bocki votes Lyter "Good as any" (bandwagony?)
Thats not completely true. I said "good as any" in combination with my mathematical approach. Seviro had the least posts (1 post I think). Gossemeer had 3 posts when I did my vote, lyter had 4. That was the reason why I said "good as any", as in "4 posts are as good as 3 posts".
I dont blame you for pointing this out, since it came up 2/3 times now. I hope its clear now why I said it.
And about the bandwagony: I proposed the mathematical approach and proposed seviro (that would have been modkilled if he didnt vote at all) or gossemeer. I wanted to hear from the rest if they want to do the mathematical approach or if someone found something. Since the first vote was lyter and he only had 1 post more than my idea, I was fine with it.
My apologies. I think almost everybody's vote was pretty much motivated by bandwagon day 1, so I don't mean anything negative by that -- I was just using it as a shorthand since my post was going to end up so long anyway.
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I also think that you guys are more confident in my conclusions than I am D:
I wouldn't recommend lynching somebody today based only on what I posted. The timing information in particular is sketchy at best.
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On April 07 2012 22:50 Bocki wrote:
After reading it again and going through the filters, I think Lazin is onto something with the BlueyD, era, Therapist connection.
I will go with my gut feeling:
##Vote: BlueyD
Happy Easter Saturday to all of you
Bocki (or anybody else) if you read this before the deadline: Why do you think that the mafia would want to flop to Gossemerr when Lyter, somebody they would've known is town, was already getting lynched? I think that's the weakest part of my post by far, and it's bugging me. The only explanations I can come up with aren't very plausible and come off very WIFOM-y.
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6 Hours to deadline!
Current vote count:
BlueyD (2): Bocki, Therapist.
Era (2): Nova_Terra, BlueyD
Not voted: LazinCajun, Gossemerr, Era
Voting is mandatory. All players must vote, abstaining is not allowed.
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EBWOP: in my analysis, I said that BlueyD voted Lyter at the end of day 1, when he voted gossemerr. Oops.
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On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
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Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
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era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
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I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum.
Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum.
##Vote: BlueyD
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On April 08 2012 00:25 LazinCajun wrote:
Bocki (or anybody else) if you read this before the deadline: Why do you think that the mafia would want to flop to Gossemerr when Lyter, somebody they would've known is town, was already getting lynched? I think that's the weakest part of my post by far, and it's bugging me. The only explanations I can come up with aren't very plausible and come off very WIFOM-y.
I dont think its really weak.
Lyter didnt say anything through most of the day. His post was "okay" but not really good. Maybe they thought that (since gossemeer started the lyter lynch) he would be one of the more active players and tried to off him on D1.
Possible train of thought of mafia:
- Lyter votes for gossemeer. Since he is on the bench and gosse started it, normal reaction.
Lets look at the proposed connection
Since there are only 2 maf it could either be:
1: era/blueyd
era switches to test the terrain, see if anyone else is willing to switch (at that time it was 6-2)
Therapist accepts lyters reasoning and jumps on the train.
BlueyD switches in the hope of someone else switching to gosse. (4-4 then. It would have taken only 1 person, iamallinson for example. iamallinson voted lazin alone, so there was a probability that he jumped on the gosse bandwagon but not lyter since he already switched his vote away from that.)
2: era/therapist
era, same reason
therapist may have not checked his PMs (the posts were only 3 minutes apart) and did not see that era wanted him to wait a while until he posts. Example: PM from era to therapist: "lets switch to gosse and see if someone switches with us". Therapist reads it and begins to write. era sends a PM again "but not right after another, that looks scummy", but therapist already posted.
BlueyD switches to gosse because of some meta stuff. Pretty vague from my point of view, but okay, everyone plays this differently.
3: therapist/blueyd
era is convinced of lyters school explanation and switches to gosse since he started the bandwagon.
therapist: same reasoning as era in 1:
blueyd: waited the appropriate time (12 minutes is still a little small window, but okay. Since he didnt say anything for the next 2,5 hours, maybe he had to leave and didnt want to wait so long to keep the momentum of the bandwagon) and switched then.
This is of course just a case against those three and I did not take into account the other players, but thats what I wanted it to be. I dont think its therapist (although the scenario sounds reasonable) and I cant tell it from single quotes. Just his overall apprearance does not seems scummy to me.
So I think its era/blueyd. The only reason I voted for BlueyD instead of era is that era has made some statements that speak against scum and BlueyD did not. So in case BlueyD isnt scum, its scenario 2.
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On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
---
Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
---
era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
---
I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum. Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum.
Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of.
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Hmm.. era voting for BlueyD.. that is strange.. maybe its scenario 3?
I'm not convinced that era is not guilty but even less convinced that era is not guilty.
My vote stays.
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On April 08 2012 01:18 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
---
Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
---
era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
---
I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum. Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum. Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of.
Theres not much to defend, i do post a lot of WIFOM trying not to do that as much. Blueyd asks if im a horrible townie or a horrible mafia? I am obviously a bad townie, this is my first game, Im sure I will player better in my next game. Also it might seem like i am tunneling BlueyD but hes the most suspicious in my book, I am trying to find mafia not accuse 5 different people.
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On April 08 2012 01:17 Bocki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 00:25 LazinCajun wrote:
Bocki (or anybody else) if you read this before the deadline: Why do you think that the mafia would want to flop to Gossemerr when Lyter, somebody they would've known is town, was already getting lynched? I think that's the weakest part of my post by far, and it's bugging me. The only explanations I can come up with aren't very plausible and come off very WIFOM-y.
I dont think its really weak. Lyter didnt say anything through most of the day. His post was "okay" but not really good. Maybe they thought that (since gossemeer started the lyter lynch) he would be one of the more active players and tried to off him on D1. Possible train of thought of mafia: - Lyter votes for gossemeer. Since he is on the bench and gosse started it, normal reaction. Lets look at the proposed connection Since there are only 2 maf it could either be: 1: era/blueyd era switches to test the terrain, see if anyone else is willing to switch (at that time it was 6-2) Therapist accepts lyters reasoning and jumps on the train. BlueyD switches in the hope of someone else switching to gosse. (4-4 then. It would have taken only 1 person, iamallinson for example. iamallinson voted lazin alone, so there was a probability that he jumped on the gosse bandwagon but not lyter since he already switched his vote away from that.) 2: era/therapist era, same reason therapist may have not checked his PMs (the posts were only 3 minutes apart) and did not see that era wanted him to wait a while until he posts. Example: PM from era to therapist: "lets switch to gosse and see if someone switches with us". Therapist reads it and begins to write. era sends a PM again "but not right after another, that looks scummy", but therapist already posted. BlueyD switches to gosse because of some meta stuff. Pretty vague from my point of view, but okay, everyone plays this differently. 3: therapist/blueyd era is convinced of lyters school explanation and switches to gosse since he started the bandwagon. therapist: same reasoning as era in 1: blueyd: waited the appropriate time (12 minutes is still a little small window, but okay. Since he didnt say anything for the next 2,5 hours, maybe he had to leave and didnt want to wait so long to keep the momentum of the bandwagon) and switched then. This is of course just a case against those three and I did not take into account the other players, but thats what I wanted it to be. I dont think its therapist (although the scenario sounds reasonable) and I cant tell it from single quotes. Just his overall apprearance does not seems scummy to me. So I think its era/blueyd. The only reason I voted for BlueyD instead of era is that era has made some statements that speak against scum and BlueyD did not. So in case BlueyD isnt scum, its scenario 2.
This is all speculation and WIFOM. Also if me and therapists were both mafia why would we both switch our votes? We have nothing to lose by having two different votes if both lyter and goss are townies.
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On April 08 2012 01:20 Bocki wrote:
Hmm.. era voting for BlueyD.. that is strange.. maybe its scenario 3?
I'm not convinced that era is not guilty but even less convinced that era is not guilty.
My vote stays.
I sure hope it's not scenario 3 as I am also voting for BlueyD. Seems like it'd be poor play to vote for your teammate early unless it's late in the game the person being voted for has been established as 100% scum.
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We haven't heard from Gossemerr in a couple pages. I'd like to know where you stand in all of this, could you post something when you get a chance? Only 5 hours until the deadline now.
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FYI, I'll be doing the night post tonight. I'll be traveling for the rest of today, I'm still hoping to get it up on time.
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I am massivly in doubt... I dont know if I should vote BlueyD or era. I might have been fixated on BlueyD for a while because of our forth-back stuff.
I'll take myself time until the deadline to switch my vote. If I do so, I will of course say why.
If someone might help me in creating a case either against BlueyD (with something else other than I wrote before) or era, I would highly appreciate it.
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Hi everybody, i apologize for my absence today, i was at a Ping-Pong tournament =)
just caught up on the thread. as of yet nothing of note happened differently than what i expected.
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Also, i want to note that it is likely that mafia flopped votes between the two bandwagons in early game to not be associated with eachother. if it was say a therapist and era connection, they both accidentally flopped with the same idea.
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On April 08 2012 01:30 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 01:18 LazinCajun wrote:On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
---
Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
---
era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
---
I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum. Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum. Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of. Theres not much to defend, i do post a lot of WIFOM trying not to do that as much. Blueyd asks if im a horrible townie or a horrible mafia? I am obviously a bad townie, this is my first game, Im sure I will player better in my next game. Also it might seem like i am tunneling BlueyD but hes the most suspicious in my book, I am trying to find mafia not accuse 5 different people.
Sure, in this case there might not be much to defend, but once again everything i said earlier stands. you cant get out of it with an i'm new excuse. You have not adequately defended any of that, nor have you started posting content after. Therefore, my vote on you stands. I think you are more likely to be mafia than bluey simply because he tries to defend himself adequately and does post his own non-wifom analysis. we get information either way, i guess, but still, i feel that era is the best lynch.
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On April 08 2012 02:49 Nova_Terra wrote:
Also, i want to note that it is likely that mafia flopped votes between the two bandwagons in early game to not be associated with eachother. if it was say a therapist and era connection, they both accidentally flopped with the same idea.
Is there nothing that WIFOM can't refute in this game? But I don't disagree, it does weaken my argument.
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Alright, I'm going to throw in my vote now in case I'm not around closer to the deadline. My vote is not set in stone at this point, but I am most suspicious of Era at the moment, so here goes.
##Vote: Era
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even if the conclusions in your analysis might be weakened, i still think that the analysis was really damn good...
And yeah, where is gossemerr ...
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On April 08 2012 02:53 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 01:30 era wrote:On April 08 2012 01:18 LazinCajun wrote:On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
---
Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
---
era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
---
I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum. Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum. Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of. Theres not much to defend, i do post a lot of WIFOM trying not to do that as much. Blueyd asks if im a horrible townie or a horrible mafia? I am obviously a bad townie, this is my first game, Im sure I will player better in my next game. Also it might seem like i am tunneling BlueyD but hes the most suspicious in my book, I am trying to find mafia not accuse 5 different people. Sure, in this case there might not be much to defend, but once again everything i said earlier stands. you cant get out of it with an i'm new excuse. You have not adequately defended any of that, nor have you started posting content after. Therefore, my vote on you stands. I think you are more likely to be mafia than bluey simply because he tries to defend himself adequately and does post his own non-wifom analysis. we get information either way, i guess, but still, i feel that era is the best lynch.
Your main accusation is that i use WIFOM, which is your accusation for almost everyone, it seems like thats the only analysis you ever bring to the table. WIFOM is not always bad and can be useful. I do agree that I use it too much I dont know how you want me to defend myself?
I also posted about blueyD which somewhat got ignored, which is not WIFOM.
"Gossemerr, I'm being attacked for making jokes now, really? I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is. Grats, you did."
I don't think that his jokes is just flavor. He makes jokes because he wants people to accuse him? Why would he want this? Its a total waste of time and makes no sense if hes a townie. If he is scum it allows him to discredit accusations and gain town favor while doing it. Ill admit its a risky strategy for a mafia since hes putting attention on him. I still find him suspicious.
Lastly Nova is always defending blueyd, so much that sometimes blueyd doesnt even have to defend himself he can just sit back and relax. Why are you so keen on defending blueyd?
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##Vote: BlueyD
Based on my own case.
The only case I have at the current time. So much random WIFOM analysis right now. I wish we would stop this and actually use posts to make logical analyses. I'm going to reread everything before I leave for work in two hours.
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On the jokes thing, again...
I knew from the start of the game I'd be playing aggressive and posting a LOT of content, hence I knew I could get away with some jokes, and besides, it's fun for me. And of course, if you see someone just trying to point out the jokes and ignoring the actual analysis I'm doing, then that certainly is scummy - they're focusing on the WRONG things.
If I end up being lynched, I'll flip green, you'll see the joking wasn't scummy after all... and you should get some info from this. Please go back through the thread and see whose attacks on me make some sense and whose attacks are silly.
- era jumped on me before there was any case to even be started and tunneled me so hard, of course he was going to mention them.
- Goss changed his mind halfway through. At first they didn't matter, then suddenly they were a good part of the case. You would think he could make a case against me without the jokes if there were a case, given that he didn't think there was anything scummy about it at the start.
- Bocki didn't comment on them until I pressured him, so it's hard to tell. Might just be OMGUS really.
- Nova's behavior about them seems totally townie: comments a bit but mostly makes sense. Lazin doesn't get distracted by them at all. Even Therapist doesn't comment on that and relies on something else for his vote on me, though he's suspicious for other reasons.
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Why do something that will confuse people in the first place? Trying to confuse people is not a townie thing to do. You are puosefully trying to make it harder to find mafia.
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Obviously joking around confuses you?
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"I wanted to see who would jump on them to try to make a case look better thank it is" you want people to accuse you, dismiss it because you were just joking. Wasting time and confusing people.
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Gosse didnt say anything for 23 hours...
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"I wanted to see who would jump on them to try to make a case look better thank it is" you want people to accuse you, dismiss it because you were just joking. Wasting time and confusing people.
No, era, that is once again not what I said. You have to read this not as "hurr durr, let's get people to accuse me by making jokes!", but as "it's a reasonable assumption that I might have accusations on me at some point during this game, especially with my aggressive style... so let's see who sticks to arguments that seem reasonable, and let's see who tries to make the case look stronger by pointing at the jokes instead."
As for Gosse, funny how much he was posting while he actually had a case on him, and how quiet he went the minute it got put aside. Heh.
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BlueyD
To be fair, I said the first one was harmless with my very first post, that's it. I'm voting for you based on your meta being different from last game.
I personally feel like era is just a new bad townie. This thread is so cluttered with bullshit right now. I gotta bring this back up from Nova:
On April 07 2012 09:21 Nova_Terra wrote:
On April 07 2012 00:14 era wrote:
EBWOP: BlueyD you seem to know the profile of a blue and how to read for them? Maybe you already knew he was a blue before he got killed?
WAIT before i go i just noticed this gem.
i find this funny, it really looks to me that era is trying very very hard to make blueyd seem suspicious. just look.
I'm not sure what is worse, the constant WIFOM, the fact that blues are generally classified as holding back to avoid drawing attention to themselves, or my personal favorite, that you cant know who a blue if even if you are mafia(you have just as good a shot at guessing if you are town)
Era seems to be trying sooo hard to get blueyd lynched. even if it doesnt quite make sense and is entirely WIFOM. At this point, if era is scum, blueyD isnt, at least in my mind. tomorrow i'm going to see if that makes sense the other way around.
As Nova points out, the scum cannot know who is blue. So era is either missing this somehow or purposely misleading us (from Nova). This seems like he is either just clueless or a bad mafia. I am leaning clueless.
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And the lack of posting, no just really busy on Friday and the weekends because my schedule includes more than school.
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vote count!
Era: Nova, blueyD, lazinCajun
BlueyD: bocki, therapist, era, gossamer
Currently, blueyD will be lynched!
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On April 08 2012 04:08 Bocki wrote:
Gosse didnt say anything for 23 hours...
Sry... overlooked his vote... ignore this
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On April 08 2012 03:23 era wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 02:53 Nova_Terra wrote:On April 08 2012 01:30 era wrote:On April 08 2012 01:18 LazinCajun wrote:On April 08 2012 01:11 era wrote:On April 08 2012 00:03 BlueyD wrote:
Aye, time to put out a vote.
My case against Gossemerr hasn't gotten any better, and standards are higher on day 2 than on day 1. What I have is insufficient for me to vote for him.
---
Bocki's defense against my lastest attack is decent, though no more. What he says (didn't post his case because he thought it was a bit weak, wanted it to be stronger before he did and got rushed into it) is plausible. His vote for me feels a bit like an OMGUS, but it does seem plausible that I would have been his best read already, with the whole Gossemerr thing I seem to be the only one to be getting.
---
era's play is maddeningly unchanging. He's tunneling, short-posting and WIFOMing all over the place, even after people have pointed it out. The only question is: Horrible townie, or horrible mafia? It is my opinion that a horrible town would at least learn to be less awful after a few days, and actually help the town in some way. This guy hasn't. The one insight he got (and I have difficulty thinking it was really his), he actually dismissed.
##Vote:era
---
I want to congratulate LazinCajun for posting a very convincing connection case. I took a quick look at therapist and era's filters and in my opinion it support the case as well. I'll do a deeper analysis if era turns up scum. Really, you find a connection case that's based on me and therapist posting 3 minutes apart convincing? Lazin himself says that we posted 40 minutes before the deadline which is when everyone would usually be on and voting. Why are you trying to use Lazins "convincing" case to try to get me lynched? I think you are panicking because you are scum. Oh man. Almost none of his reasoning is based on my post, but rather your posting. You're not defending what he was accusing you of. Theres not much to defend, i do post a lot of WIFOM trying not to do that as much. Blueyd asks if im a horrible townie or a horrible mafia? I am obviously a bad townie, this is my first game, Im sure I will player better in my next game. Also it might seem like i am tunneling BlueyD but hes the most suspicious in my book, I am trying to find mafia not accuse 5 different people. Sure, in this case there might not be much to defend, but once again everything i said earlier stands. you cant get out of it with an i'm new excuse. You have not adequately defended any of that, nor have you started posting content after. Therefore, my vote on you stands. I think you are more likely to be mafia than bluey simply because he tries to defend himself adequately and does post his own non-wifom analysis. we get information either way, i guess, but still, i feel that era is the best lynch. Your main accusation is that i use WIFOM, which is your accusation for almost everyone, it seems like thats the only analysis you ever bring to the table. WIFOM is not always bad and can be useful. I do agree that I use it too much I dont know how you want me to defend myself? I also posted about blueyD which somewhat got ignored, which is not WIFOM. "Gossemerr, I'm being attacked for making jokes now, really? I'll tell you, there's two reasons I'm making jokes. First... it's fun! Second... I wanted to see who jumped on them to try to make a case look better than it is. Grats, you did." I don't think that his jokes is just flavor. He makes jokes because he wants people to accuse him? Why would he want this? Its a total waste of time and makes no sense if hes a townie. If he is scum it allows him to discredit accusations and gain town favor while doing it. Ill admit its a risky strategy for a mafia since hes putting attention on him. I still find him suspicious. Lastly Nova is always defending blueyd, so much that sometimes blueyd doesnt even have to defend himself he can just sit back and relax. Why are you so keen on defending blueyd?
Really? all it is is that you use WIFOM?
OR maybe that its 1. you make lots of really short posts with no content
2. you seem to OMGUS when i call you out on it
3. When you actually seem to produce "content" its just WIFOM
4. you respond to me saying these things with more 1 liners, bad defenses, accusations against other people, etc
5. you continue to not produce content without wifom after being told to many many times, and we know you have the time to
And you discredit my cases vs you by saying that its just me saying you use WIFOM. I already commented on you saying WIFOM is not always bad an can be useful. Also, i pointed that small non wifom contribution you made out in an earlier post and added my thoughts to it, bringing it up again seems like you are trying to take even more credit for it.
I'm always defending blueyD? didnt i just say that i am suspicious of him? defensive reaction, i think. Anyways, the reason why i'm not going as hard on him, as i said before, is that you are more suspicious because you dont actually TRY to come up with some useful analysis that isnt wifom. aside from that 1 point you made. By keen to defend blueyD, its more like keen to want to out a more scummy player, in you.
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Okay, I'm going to be honest: I don't have a solid read on anyone after reading the entire thread. BlueyD is at least posting content and is logical. I still think he is suspicious but his defense is pretty good, minus the joke defense. I feel like Blocki, therapist, lazin, and era are on the same level of content after Nova and BlueyD (imo I am somewhere in the middle of the pacts). era is still pounding the joke thing, after I felt like I had said enough on that matter. I don't want to lose the contribution of BlueyD for now until I can prove with more persuasion that he is scum.
##Unvote: BlueyD
##Vote: era
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Gossemerr, do you find era or BlueyD more suspicious? I think we need to lynch based on our highest suspicion today, and your last post makes it seem like you just dont want to kill a contributor...
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Okay, right now, it's era thats gonna be lynched. I will stay with my vote on BlueyD because I am still unsure which one of them is guilty. We will see in about 2 hours.
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Nova,
I feel like they are pretty much the same right now in terms on my suspicions. BlueyD for meta, and era for not posting content/wifom/tunneling on BlueyD hard. I'd rather not lynch one of the major contributors right now when era is just as good a lynch in my mind.
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ebwop: gotta go to work, I will post in about ten hours from now.
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On April 08 2012 04:32 Gossemerr wrote:
Okay, I'm going to be honest: I don't have a solid read on anyone after reading the entire thread. BlueyD is at least posting content and is logical. I still think he is suspicious but his defense is pretty good, minus the joke defense. I feel like Blocki, therapist, lazin, and era are on the same level of content after Nova and BlueyD (imo I am somewhere in the middle of the pacts). era is still pounding the joke thing, after I felt like I had said enough on that matter. I don't want to lose the contribution of BlueyD for now until I can prove with more persuasion that he is scum.
##Unvote: BlueyD
##Vote: era
So your voting for me, even though you find Blueyd more suspicious, just because you don't want to lose his contribution. Good to known next time I play mafia all I have to do is post a lot and I wont get lynched. You guys are gonna end up lynching a townie, and further decrease your chance of winning. Gossemerr caused lyter to get lynched and now hes gonna get another townie lynched.
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Did you not read his last post?
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Then why say that hes voting you when he finds blueyD more suspicious? thats incorrect. and apparently you are aware
also why do you not understand that its not because you arent posting a lot, its because you arent making helpful contributions. And suddenly this mad reaction to gossemerr when he flips, come on. if you are town, which i still doubt, Dont blame this on gossemerr. blame it on you not putting in analysis and helpful content
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The post just before he says that he finds blueyd more suspicious, your right next post he says we are equally suspicious but blueyd contributes more so hes voting for me. I am making a helpful contribution, i am trying to find mafia. You on the other hand are busy trying to lynch townies for not contributing. This game is not about lynching people who don't contribute, this game is about finding and lynching mafia. I gotta go eat really fast, will post more when I get back, if I dont make it in time, you will see that you lynched a townie and just made it easier for mafia to win.
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This is just pissing me off now, so im going to stop responding to this. just going to wait and see if we were right.
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actually i do need to say that if you think that we arent trying to find mafia by lynching you, you really need a new perspective.
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Deadline in 20 minutes!
Night post will be a bit late. As a reminder, only votes cast before the deadline will be counted.
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Final vote count:
Era (4): Nova, blueyD, lazinCajun, gossamer
BlueyD (3): bocki, therapist, era
Night 2![[image loading]](http://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/images/Animal/Flying-Goat.jpg)
Day 2 had come and gone. The losses of imallinson and Lyter had driven
the goats into a blind panic. They knew that soon, Loki would win, and
there would be no chance of them returning to their once great forms.
The lives they once knew would be soon out of reach, unless they
managed to find Loki and break his magic.
But who? They argued amongst themselves throughout the day. The answer
never seemed obvious. Any one of them could be the trickster they
sought to destroy. Back and forth, all day long they argued. Slowly, a
consensus was reached. It could only be Era.
Upon realizing this, the goats realized they had a new problem. How
would they kill Era to undo the magic? Goats are not
particularly well known for their abilities to kill other animals.
Many ideas were brought forward, most of them terrible.
Era realized, at this point, he could just leave. He
slowly backed away from the group, then turned around and started
galloping across the fields.
The other goats saw him fleeing, and gave chase. Era came
across a small hill, and ran up it. He crested the hill, only to
realize that it was, in fact, a cliff. The other goats slowed, and saw
Era, plunge to his death.
Era, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched!
Night has begun! It will last until 21:59 GMT (+00:00)
on Sunday April 8th. All night actions must be PMed to both myself and
Artanis[xp] this night.
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Wow.
Cant help but feel like that wasnt our fault. that was a serious lack of try, i should think.
so damn frustrated T-T will post in morning.
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Bah. If this is his townie play, I don't want to see how chaotic his scum play is. >.<
Still, this hurts.
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On April 08 2012 07:38 LazinCajun wrote:
Nuts.
This is all you have to say? You don't even sound upset.
Well I'm pissed. I am going to step up my play because I need to. Tomorrow is Easter so I won't be on until late. I have one request that we ALL stop using BS attacks and come up with solid cases based on facts in the posts. And hunt for scum. I mean don't tell us if you think someone is kinda sorta maybe leaning town based off nothing. Find some hard facts that someone is scum and lets use that to our advantage. We need to be clear on concise here, which I feel has gotten away from us.
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Also for those of you lurking around, step it up please.
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Well.. its seems like either everyone is out for easter, or no one knows what to say.
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Hi, sorry, just woke up an hour ago and preparing for easter dinner with family friends
Yeah, i may have tunneled era too hard. but it was warranted.
will check in later, gtg for now, sorry
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Another town lynched. Things are looking pretty hairy for the Town, but we can still take it. I'm interested to see who the Mafia will choose to shoot night 2.
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On April 08 2012 16:43 Gossemerr wrote:This is all you have to say? You don't even sound upset. Well I'm pissed. I am going to step up my play because I need to. Tomorrow is Easter so I won't be on until late. I have one request that we ALL stop using BS attacks and come up with solid cases based on facts in the posts. And hunt for scum. I mean don't tell us if you think someone is kinda sorta maybe leaning town based off nothing. Find some hard facts that someone is scum and lets use that to our advantage. We need to be clear on concise here, which I feel has gotten away from us.
What do you want me to do, go on a tirade of 4 letter words? Please. With Era's play he was kinda asking for it -- even the night post made it sound like he offed himself, and I can't help but wonder if that was commentary on his play from ghost.
In case anybody isn't aware, if the mafia kills tonight (barring a doctor saving somebody, if we even have one) we'll have 2 mafia and 3 town, so we will be in a lynch-or-lose scenario. The good news is that the mafia will be almost half of the people left, so the odds will be much better that we will lynch get one of them. There's still a good chance we can win, so don't give up.
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EBWOP: The odds are better that we will lynch one of them *IF* the town votes together.
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Additionally, remember that having confirmed townies is almost as useful as mafia at this point, so don't be afraid to post your town reads as well as your scum reads.
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Hi, i just came back, will hang around till night post.
Reactions to town lynches are just awkward to make, really. not anything of note that lazin had no real reaction.
Out of our current surviving players, i have a relatively high percentage town read on Lazin and to some extent gossemerr.
Resulting from the many suspicions on him beforehand and the fact that era's main suspect was BlueyD, even if it was just tunneling, my current highest percentage scum read is BlueyD, but thats not a high chance at all, and can be rectified. others, like Bocki, are going to need to be very active now or face my wrath (aka being a higher scum read over BlueyD)
I am really having trouble understanding why i have never gotten a single good mafia lynch. Its so frustrating, and now i kinda see why mafia didnt kill me night 1, i only tunnelled era T-T
On the bright side (ignore if you dont care about my irl + Show Spoiler +
i got a cool little notebook for easter that says "Keep calm and carry on" on it and i am now using it for my mafia notes, good reminder to still try to stay chill.
those are my current thoughts in case i am the death tonight, which i find exceedingly likely, but in the event that i am here tomorrow, i'll be trying to post some more descriptive thoughts in late afternoon.
Hope you all had a good easter
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40 minutes until day post! Remember to send in your night actions to both me and Artanis if you haven't as of yet.
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Just to get this post in before the night in case I die (I have NOT taken a ton of time to think about this)
Current scum reads: Bocki / gossemerr:
Town: Me, probably Nova. I'm less sure about BlueyD. I do want to review nova's filter in more detail to make reconfirm that he's town, but I've been getting town vibes all game.
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Please post your reads before night (30 mins) if you can!
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EBWOP: Also not sure about therapist, but I'm leaning town.
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Sorry therapist, i forgot about you. you're also in my null reads section now, close to bocki, you both better post up. also, i wanted to clarify, by to some extent gossemerr i meant that he is leaning town very slightly. however all the reads i have ever had as town have been wrong, so i'll be going over gosse's filter tomorrow. i just went through the others. Notably theres evidence for a therapis/era team, but thats gone, therefore find him null, some decent defense from blueyD but still having good points made against him, good defense from bocki but still lack of posts/thoughts, Concise and helpful posting from lazin, and what i can remember from gossemerrs posting as yet is aggressive posts from gossemerr which go along withh his meta which account for his slightly town read. Unsure as to how helpful they are, but being very aggressive isnt a scum characteristic.
So to BlueyD, Bocki, and Therapist, hit me with your best. Shock us all with your talent as town, if you are...
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Day 3![[image loading]](http://topwalls.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/animal-Wolf-300x225.jpg)
Gossamer awoke in the middle of the night to the sound of a twig snapping nearby. He opened his eyes, and was greeted to the image of an enormous wolve's yellow eyes and a massive jaws.
It was the last thing he saw.
The next day, the goats found the body of Ve, the brother of Odin's. Desperation set in among the goats. They knew they only had one final chance to find Loki and undo the spell, before it would be too late.
Gossamer, the Vanilla Townie has been killed!
Day 3 has begun! It will last until 21:59 GMT (+00:00) on Tuesday April 10th.
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On April 09 2012 06:30 LazinCajun wrote:
Just to get this post in before the night in case I die (I have NOT taken a ton of time to think about this)
Current scum reads: Bocki / gossemerr:
Town: Me, probably Nova. I'm less sure about BlueyD. I do want to review nova's filter in more detail to make reconfirm that he's town, but I've been getting town vibes all game.
Lazin:
I myself know that I'm not town and I share your view of Lazin and Nova. But lining up gossemeer with me is strange, since he would have been the one that would have been lynched if we would have gone through with my mathematical solution. It was his luck that he started the bandwagon, because I think that if anyone would have started a bandwagon and said "yeah, lets do it, i vote gosse" (which was a really high probability), I would have killed my supposed mafia compadre on day1. That wouldnt make sense.
My read stays on BlueyD. He's only been half-heartedly defending himself against me. He is attacking gosse the whole time, attacked iamallinson for not speaking up in the first lynch vote (which would have sent gosse to the guilotine) and so on.
I know, I might be focused on him, but he still is my best read.
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Well, it's moot now since Gossemerr is dead. Again, I hadn't thought much about that and just posted my gut feeling at the time.
GG Gossemerr!
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Wow, okay. Mafia gave me a passover, it seems, and i'm going to use it to get a scum killed and redeem myself,at least in my own eyes
Gonna be going over gossemerrs filter as well as another deep look into therapists. need to see something. see you guys tomorrow.
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Damn! It took a while to write that post, began it before the kill.
Well.. so much for bocki/gossemerr are mafia.
So, everyone that attacked BlueyD is dead except me. He probably didnt want to make it so obvious.
My read for Scum: BlueyD and Therapist.
I dont think I will have to wait 48 hours to do my vote.
##Vote: BlueyD
If you dont come up with a brilliant read on someone else, I wont change the vote.
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I'm a little surprised too, Nova.
Perhaps you were the "obvious" mafia hit since you seem to be the most likely townie, and fearing that we still have a doctor they settled on Goss.
Perhaps Gossemerr was getting a little too close to the truth.
And, in a third (IMO unlikely) scenario, perhaps you're alive because you're mafia
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before i go, bocki, although i agree with an early vote like that please provide some helpful analysis rather than leaving it at that. Preferably sum up why BlueyD is scummy to you and add some of his filter to it. Filter doesnt lie, players do. Filter analysis is necessary for a good analysis, unless you are Lazin
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Okay, I will write an analysis tomorrow just to have a clear mind and of course make a better case.
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Haha Lazin, i think you hit it with doctor heal. When i was mafia, i really wanted to avoid any possible doc heal, so if they are thinking like i was going for unlikely targets would be beneficial. I propose we all go through gossemerrs filter independantly and post what we make of it and if it makes anyone more suspicious or not.
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On April 09 2012 07:08 Bocki wrote:
Damn! It took a while to write that post, began it before the kill.
Well.. so much for bocki/gossemerr are mafia.
So, everyone that attacked BlueyD is dead except me. He probably didnt want to make it so obvious.
My read for Scum: BlueyD and Therapist.
I dont think I will have to wait 48 hours to do my vote.
##Vote: BlueyD
If you dont come up with a brilliant read on someone else, I wont change the vote.
Alright, 3 town and 2 mafia. The only way for the town to win is to vote together or to get 2 votes on a player before the mafia can vote.
If Bocki is truly town and won't switch his vote, then it makes sense to put in a BlueyD vote now. Based on this possible situation, I will throw my vote in for now.
##Vote: BlueyD
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Holy cow! I just realized that under these rules it might be possible for the town can win if it's 2 town 2 mafia.
If the town votes for the same person, that person is mafia, and they vote before the mafia puts up their vote, does the town get the lynch if it's 2 vs 2?
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Even more strange, what if it's day and 1 mafia 1 town? Whoever votes first wins? This seems broken.........
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Lazin: Yes, in case of a tie, the person that has the votes first gets lynched. If its 2v2, its still possible for the town to win. I actually find that good since the town still has a chance.
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Mafia rules in general and this games original post state that if at any time mafia equal or outnumber the town, they win. so therefore a 2v2 town win is impossible.
Also seeing as its LYLO, i will now note that Lazin is my best [blue]blue read. after day 1 he was my best, but didnt note that until now of course so that he wasnt hit. And i hope that everyone finds him leaning inno. if not, i may be suspicious of said people. actually im suspicious of all of them anyways, so its all moot i guess. just wanted to note that.[/b]
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Thanks for clearing that up Nova. The rules are much more sensible now.
I do claim to be town, but I'm will NOT confirm or deny if I'm blue/green just yet for the following reasons:
1) Assume that I'm blue, but have no useful information. Assume that I claim blue. Assume that we lynch mafia tonight. In that case, mafia gets a blue for free tonight. Bad to claim.
2) Assume that I'm blue, but that I do have useful information. I can avoid claiming right now to see where votes fall, and may be able to avoid claiming, thus denying mafia a blue kill tonight. Bad to claim until I see where things fall.
3) Assume that I am blue, but choose not to claim. A mafia member claims blue today in an effort to mislead the town. I have an obvious counterclaim, and we get a mafia. Bad to claim this early.
4) Assume that I am green, and choose to claim that I'm green. Assume that another townie is blue. The mafia has one fewer person to worry about as being blue, and is more likely to assassinate a blue tonight by not assassinating me. Bad to claim this early.
I don't see any real advantages to the town in announcing whether I am blue or green at this moment. [b]If[/b] you or anybody can come up with a good argument for me announcing, I will consider, but for now I choose not to claim either way.
I have one more thing to say to the remaining townies before we start analyzing more heavily, and that is a reminder of what we're looking for. I think that Nova and I have pretty much confirmed each other as town in our own minds.
If that is accepted, then that leaves 1 townie and 2 mafia out of BlueyD, Therapist, and Bocki. Most of the players in suspicion right now will be mafia -- keep that in mind while analyzing. Confirming a third townie right now would mean a sure-fire town victory as well, so if the remaining townie can come up with an irrefutable argument pointing to their innocence, now is the time to post it.
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In case there is an equal amount of townies and mafia remaining, mafia win by default as there is no way for town to win. No majority lynch on a mafia can be reached.
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I don't believe BlueyD to be mafia. I strongly disagree with bandwagoning onto him immediately. Instead, I would question the motives behind Bocki and LazinCajun INSTANTLY throwing down votes on BlueyD. For the time being I am going to focus my analysis on the two of them and see what I can come up with. AT LEAST one of them is 100% mafia in my opinion. I'll post more details later, but I really wanted to get this out there that I think those two should be the focus of our investigation for day 3.
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I posted my reasons for voting BlueyD. Bocki seems to be fixed on his vote. I am not.
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so soon again. GG.
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Oh, oh wow. Okay, so I first wrote a huge post which you can find below, and then I took a last look at the Bocki filter and found something new I missed before. It goes on top of this post because this is so, so, SO important.
On April 09 2012 07:00 Bocki wrote:
Lazin:
I myself know that I'm not town and I share your view of Lazin and Nova. But lining up gossemeer with me is strange, since he would have been the one that would have been lynched if we would have gone through with my mathematical solution. It was his luck that he started the bandwagon, because I think that if anyone would have started a bandwagon and said "yeah, lets do it, i vote gosse" (which was a really high probability), I would have killed my supposed mafia compadre on day1. That wouldnt make sense.
My read stays on BlueyD. He's only been half-heartedly defending himself against me. He is attacking gosse the whole time, attacked iamallinson for not speaking up in the first lynch vote (which would have sent gosse to the guilotine) and so on.
I know, I might be focused on him, but he still is my best read.
First sentence. "I myself know that I'm not town and (...)" This is the scum slip to end all scum slips.
Well I didn't expect to find that. I need to read more and write less! XD
The case I had on him is below if you still want to look.
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Original post:
Whew, had a long day, and I come back home to see myself as the #1 lynch target, unsurprisingly.
My reads (not entirely thought out, as I haven’t had time to look at all the filters): Nova is most likely town, Lazin feels like town, Therapist doesn’t feel like much now because I haven’t analyzed him in depth, and Bocki is almost 100% scum.
So I’ll just reply post about Bocki for now, and do the rest tomorrow.
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I’ve already put an analysis out on Bocki, and much of it still stands. The biggest problem: The only time he gave in-depth analysis he did so reluctantly, after someone (me) pressured him. Only 2 lines that could be considered analysis on me from him today are analyzed below, and the rest of his attack rests of his attack is the stuff I’ve already replied to.
Bocki said: He's only been half-heartedly defending himself against me. He is attacking gosse the whole time, attacked iamallinson for not speaking up in the first lynch vote (which would have sent gosse to the guilotine) and so on.
1. I think my defense is more than half-assed, might be just me. What does Bocki want, even longer posts? I’m already taxing your attention enough, I think. Heh.
2. Unlike Bocki, I’ve aimed at more than one person. I’ve attacked Gosse a lot, but I’ve not spent “the whole time” on him. Bocki knows this, as he points out a jab I took at another player in the very next sentence, so this attack is unwarranted at best and a lie at worst.
3. iamallinson could just as well have put his vote against era, not sending gosse to the guillotine, so that’s another lie by Bocki unless he just failed to consider this possibility. I was only unhappy with his decision to ‘stay neutral’ even though he was the scale-tipping vote. That was not a scummy move by me, despite what Bocki tells you.
Bocki said:
So, everyone that attacked BlueyD is dead except me. He probably didnt want to make it so obvious.
1. That statement isn’t really true. Therapist voted for me yesterday, and he’s still alive. You’ve got a fun “except me” there, it seems I’ll have to remind you that yes, you count too…
2. Here’s my problem with this logic: Let’s assume I’m mafia and I want to hit someone without getting suspicious, yet I also take out a vote against me… then Why is Bocki alive? Gossemerr acknowledged, yesterday, that my defense was “pretty good” and that he wasn’t quite ready to vote for me “until I [Goss] can prove with more persuasion that he [Bluey] is scum.” I had heavy pressure on me from Goss, but not a guaranteed vote, and him being hit guarantees a bunch of fingers pointed at me due to our drawn-out argument while also taking out a vote that, while it was coming at me, was not unflexible.
So why not Bocki instead? My arguments with him were much shorter and less memorable, hence I was going to catch a lot less immediate flak if he was hit than if Goss was. And yet, Bocki was tunneling me a lot more. His vote was actually on me D2, and I’m the only one he analyzed in depth. It was 100% obvious that this guy’s vote would fall on me today, and despite what he says I don’t get the impression anything I could possibly say can change his mind.
And notice how Bocki doesn’t even wonder why Goss was hit over himself, just dismissing that possibility with an “except myself”… Maybe he already knows he can’t get hit?
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Here’s what you have to pick from. Either:
1. Chaotic dice-roll: I’m not relevant to the hit at all, and Goss was chosen without consideration for the Goss-Bluey link – but I don’t think this is realistic. This hit is 99% sure to be related to me, either because I’m scum or because I’m the easiest target to frame.
2. Sudden IQ gain: I’m scum, I and hit for the reason Bocki mentions, but chose Goss over Bocki anyway because I’m an idiot. Then I drank some Red Bull or something, and now I’m coming up with clever and true-sounding analysis (if you disagree, do explain) on the spot to save my neck.
3. Bluey-is-a-genius: WIFOM version of #2 where instead of being an idiot, I’m so smart I anticipated I could use this defense. Thus, I hit Goss to frame Bocki. In theory this is possible, but it’s also a bit far-fetched. If you pick this, town loses, but I admit l might feel a bit flattered that you think so highly of me.
4. Bocki-can’t-hit-himself option: According to this option, Bocki is scum and he wanted to get an easier townie to lynch on D3, hence why he tried to link this hit with the most scum-looking target at the moment, which is me. If I’d been scum at that moment and I had wanted to hit someone who would certainly vote for me D3 while not attracting too much attention, the best hit would have been Bocki. Scu, failed to consider this because, from their point of view, Bocki wasn’t a possible hit target to begin with, and so the honor fell to Goss.
##Vote: Bocki
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Good morning, just a short thing about the "slip": The only thing that shows me is that I shouldnt post long posts from my Cellphone while watching Sons of Anarchy. I said that the post took a long time and i rephrased nearly every sentence twice because of the german autocorrect crap. You can also see it from the lack of capitalization in my posts in the evening as well, since I normally pay more attention to that.
Otherwise: The guy I was suspecting since D2 and that I voted for twice is voting me? What a surprise.
I will get to the rest when I get home.
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On April 07 2012 00:41 Bocki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 13:57 LazinCajun wrote:
...I propose that we drop it the implications of him dying and move on to more substantial matters...
...Unless somebody has some amazing read to gain from the mafia hitting imallinson (I doubt it), it doesn't make any sense to me to dwell on these issues, and I think any more discussion of such triviality indicates a lack of desire to move forward, ergo indicates scuminess. A blue gets whacked and you do not want to see why? Or talk about why? And that after he attacked you and died instantly after this? That sounds a bit weird to me. I dont know what to think of it now, really, but ... its weird...
I couldn't sleep so I started going through filters again.
Looking back, this post from Bocki bothers me a little bit when viewed in the context of his later behavior.
I feel like I was and am in good standing with the town. As I explained, my post was trying to drive us away from wasting time arguing in circles over something that wouldn't provide much info, but I can see how it could be interpreted badly enough for somebody to make a post about it. The queston that's bugging me is this:
If Bocki interpreted this negatively, why did he make such a weak and indirect case against me (it sounds weird, I don't know what to think, it's just weird!), then totally drop it later?
On one hand, perhaps he is town and had a strong pro-town read on me, so he wasn't confident enough in his own opinion to try to start a lynch against me. However, if Bocki had such a pro-town read on me, why wouldn't he buy that I just wanted to avoid useless discussion in the first place? That doesn't seem consistent to me. So if he didn't believe me, wouldn't my post raise a big red flag?
On the other hand, if he was mafia and wanted to raise suspicions without drawing too much attention to himself, wouldn't he make just this kind of post? From a mafia perspective, his post could also encourage the town to spend far too long on wondering about the mafia's motive for one lynch, wasting time and effort better spent elsewhere.
We heard nothing else on the issue after Nova, probably the consensus most pro-town player, came to my defense, and nobody else mentioned the post. I don't think that dropping the case so quickly would make much sense if Bocki is innocent. If somebody were town and in Bocki's position, I think he would become more suspicious of nova and aggressively make a case against me in order to try to draw out more information and/or secure a lynch.
If, however, our hypothetical player was mafia in Bocki's position and trying to encourage a mislynch, it would seem suicidal to push the case further! Without support from the town, the backlash would likely get him lynched, or at least raise more suspicion than he would want.
As strange as it sounds, I think that him not attacking me is pretty inconsistent behavior and gives me scum vibes.
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So Bocki, I ask, why did you not pursue your negative read of me further?
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Bluey, do you really think that typo is important and a scumslip, or are you joking around again?
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Bwahahah, i just want to note something about the scumslip,
That is the funniest scum slip i've ever heard of, ever.
simply for that reason, i think its accidental. i write things like that all the time, and find it in the last second before i post and lol. And its NOT because i am scum, because im not, its because im not taking enough care
However, BlueyD does have good points in there otherthan on the scum slip. The main thing to me is just that he really hasnt done anything for himself.
On to Lazin,
To me, that feels like he was making a newbie mistake. not sure whether newbie town, or newbie mafia mistake, but i think its one of those. And i think he dropped it because i came to defend you, and then he reaized that it was a newbie mistake. If someone is town, they dont want to dwell on something they screwed up on and something the *most pro town player said was incorrect, as they are trying to prove themselves innocent. if they are mafia, its the exact same thing.
I am.not sure if you read the guides or not, but in them it says that leading the town in circles is something the mafia tries to do. so far, i havent encountered a mafia who tried to lead the town in circles. when i was mafia, the main thing was just defending myself, if the town started making conclusions i was fine with that as long as my name wasnt there. I think thats how it goes in a newbie game. avoid the curtain, and you succeed. To hell with making decision making harder, etc. anyways, my point is that while those couple points definitely dont make bocki seem more town, i dont think it necessarily makes him more scummy too. the other stuff, he certainly better answer to.
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oh also i want to note that i am currently most suspicious of therapist. Lazin, if you have the time, i would greatly appreciate if you thouroughly went through his filter, so that when i make a case you can hopefully know what i mean. 1 of bocki/ BlueyD is scum, but i think there is a huge huge chance of therapist being the second.
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On the scumslip: It certainly adds a LOT to the case in my opinion. I do not like Bocki's defense according to which he can quote someone and bold some parts and make a 3 paragraph post on his phone, but said phone is responsible for the slip.
I would think if the phone is causing screwups, you would read the sentence again once it's written to make sure it says what you want to say and there's not a german word somewhere. Either Bocki didn't for some reason, or he did and his mind skipped over the first sentence, seeing nothing wrong with it at first glance.
That is indeed a very funny scumslip, but it's still a scumslip. Consider it in the wider context of Bocki's generally sheepish behavior... That is MORE than enough for a lynch.
If this slip somehow counts less than my jokes in your mind, then maybe it's time to reevaluate more objectively.
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On April 09 2012 17:33 Nova_Terra wrote:
(snip)
On to Lazin,
To me, that feels like he was making a newbie mistake. not sure whether newbie town, or newbie mafia mistake, but i think its one of those. And i think he dropped it because i came to defend you, and then he reaized that it was a newbie mistake. If someone is town, they dont want to dwell on something they screwed up on and something the *most pro town player said was incorrect, as they are trying to prove themselves innocent. if they are mafia, its the exact same thing.
I am.not sure if you read the guides or not, but in them it says that leading the town in circles is something the mafia tries to do. so far, i havent encountered a mafia who tried to lead the town in circles. when i was mafia, the main thing was just defending myself, if the town started making conclusions i was fine with that as long as my name wasnt there. I think thats how it goes in a newbie game. avoid the curtain, and you succeed. To hell with making decision making harder, etc. anyways, my point is that while those couple points definitely dont make bocki seem more town, i dont think it necessarily makes him more scummy too. the other stuff, he certainly better answer to.
Nova, I think it was a mistake speaking for Bocki before he responds. My case alone isn't enough to label him as mafia, but I do NOT understand his thought process. I wanted to read his own original response to try to get a better read on him. Your defense here might give him something to hide behind.
Bocki I still want to hear your own reasoning on the matter. I think it's fair to interpret silence as a huge scum tell.
On to therapist: I will reread his filter. I have a pretty simple argument against him right now that is pretty damning I think. I'd like to wait to state that argument until I think more on the filters. Stating it right now could give the mafia the opportunity to act in a specific way that would muddle the whole situation. Sorry if this is vague, but I really can't say more without showing my hand.
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2 more things:
Therapist what are your reads on the game right now? You have been lurking for far, far too long without posting anything of value. Follow up on your suspicions from your previous post if you still hold them. If not, then post why you changed your mind. We need to hear from everybody ASAP.
Next, another small argument against Bocki -- being very stubborn about BlueyD is sort of scummy. The 3 remaining town members should be focused right now on getting a unified vote against a mafia member. If nova and I disagree with you and you don't change your vote, then that would potentially cost the town the game.
From the mafia perspective, IMO tunneling the townie that is under the most suspicion is the "obvious" strategy right now. Nova and I have each posted that we think the other is town, so voting so early for BlueyD and saying you won't change your vote for whatever reason seems somewhat questionable.
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Hi,
sorry for the long wait, but I was on a family meeting the whole day and just came back.
The "Scumslip": I explained what happened this morning and I think it is comprehensible when you look at the postings in the night. As for most of us, this is my first game and it is to learn how to play it. I learned from this that I shouldnt post in the circumstances of tonight.
On April 09 2012 16:13 LazinCajun wrote:
If Bocki interpreted this negatively, why did he make such a weak and indirect case against me (it sounds weird, I don't know what to think, it's just weird!), then totally drop it later?
.......
As strange as it sounds, I think that him not attacking me is pretty inconsistent behavior and gives me scum vibes.
As I said in the post, I did not interpret this negatively, I just wanted to note that I found that sentence strange of you. At that point, I didnt have a read on you, not town, not scum. I wanted to get one of the better analytics (therapist, nova, era) to take a look at your filter to see if they find something that supports that "weird feeling". It didnt lead to anything, and right after my post, you did a very good analysis ( this one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325394¤tpage=12#234 ). That convinced me that my hunch was baseless and that you are a pretty good pro-town player. I didnt post this specifically, since no one noticed or supported the "hunch"-post in the first place, so I didnt think about it.
On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote:
2. Unlike Bocki, I’ve aimed at more than one person. I’ve attacked Gosse a lot, but I’ve not spent “the whole time” on him. Bocki knows this, as he points out a jab I took at another player in the very next sentence, so this attack is unwarranted at best and a lie at worst.
Attacking gosse over more posts and noting iamallinson in 4 lines isnt the same thing.
On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote:
2. Here’s my problem with this logic: Let’s assume I’m mafia and I want to hit someone without getting suspicious, yet I also take out a vote against me… then Why is Bocki alive? Gossemerr acknowledged, yesterday, that my defense was “pretty good” and that he wasn’t quite ready to vote for me “until I [Goss] can prove with more persuasion that he [Bluey] is scum.” I had heavy pressure on me from Goss, but not a guaranteed vote, and him being hit guarantees a bunch of fingers pointed at me due to our drawn-out argument while also taking out a vote that, while it was coming at me, was not unflexible.
I could ask you the same question: Since you are my most vivid attacker, why are you still alive if I was scum? I would have had 2 Nights to get you, but yet: you are still alive. If I take your premise, you are the only one that I attacked all the time. You attacked more persons (from your point of view) including the late iamallinson and the late gossemeer. The only person I really attacked is still alive. If this is a scum tactic, thats a really crappy tactic.
On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote:
And notice how Bocki doesn’t even wonder why Goss was hit over himself, just dismissing that possibility with an “except myself”… Maybe he already knows he can’t get hit?
I did wonder, and I did explain why I think he died instead of me.
On April 09 2012 07:08 Bocki wrote:
....He probably didnt want to make it so obvious....
On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote:
...hence why he tried to link this hit with the most scum-looking target at the moment, which is me. If I’d been scum at that moment and I had wanted to hit someone who would certainly vote for me D3 while not attracting too much attention, the best hit would have been Bocki. Scu, failed to consider this because, from their point of view, Bocki wasn’t a possible hit target to begin with, and so the honor fell to Goss.
I cant really follow the reasoning in this. Now you say that I would have been the better target because you look more scummy, but the mafia failed to see it. But it stands 2-3, so I wouldnt assume that mafia is stupid.
Nova: He's my best town read after lazin, since he has been posting a lot of good information. He is (in my opinion) the best analyist, shortly followed by lazin. This may be scummy behaviour (beeing so obviously town that he isnt) but my gut feeling tells me he is town.
He has been after therapist in the last postings, who is my second mafia read, maybe that also helps my gut feeling.
I sense that it comes down to me or blueyd this day.
I vote for Blueyd
BlueyD votes for me
Lazin firstly voted for BlueyD but keeps his option open to change
Nova will probably vote for therapist
it comes down to what therapist votes.
Since therapist is my second mafia read, this is really bad. Lets see how he decides.
If you find typos, you can keep them, this was the work of 12 simultanious open tabs
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Lazin: I told you that my focus on BlueyD might be wrong, and since you two are my strongest town reads, I am willing to change my vote according to your decision. Right now, we can only win together.
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Okay, i am definitely not going through all of Therapist's posts, because its way too time consuming and theres a lot of non-content that doesnt need to be involved. Of course, i will make a brief summary.
So,
enter Therapist
Therapist, in this game, is the ultimate slip-byer.
So, in total, Therapist has 18 ingame posts. compare this to Lazins approximate 51, my approximate 99. Therapist has the smallest filter out of anyone. i checked all of ours just to make sure. he hasnt even broken the 1 page mark yet.
however, this wouldnt be a problem if there was original content and analysis. lets take a look into his filter.
Therapist starts with 2 nonposts, so 1/9 of his posts are already wasted for nothing.
then he says that he has no suspicions so far. helpful. Maybe had he tried to post something original for discussion he could have had suspicions.
Then he decides to make a post where he says that we dont all need to bandwagon lyter, so he wont.
Then he does. cool, wasting space and contradicting.
He informs us he will be there for deadline. this is 1/3 of his posts. in over 1 and a half days, Therapist has 1. Posted no content, 2. bandwagoned after saying he didnt!
oh, now, gossemerr contradicted himself, so vote goes to him. but you also contradicted yourself. meh.
Then he says that i'm probably right, and proceeds to let a probably right lynch go ahead without removing a vote.
Lyter dies, and theres a bit of WIFOM about gossemerr being more suspicious because of it. Also, he does this OH MAYBE we can get information from somebody but never does anything. at all.
Now, all of his posts are either from necessity or from direct pressure. so never contributing willfully. he contradicts himself by saying that there was a reason at that point to go Gossemerr instead of Lyter, whereas earlier he had said there was no reason to do one over the other.
one thing that bugs me is DId you guys really jump on the Lyter bandwagon intending to go all the way and lynch him no matter what? I don't see what the advantage of doing that could possibly be. There's a difference between pressure moves and kill moves.
Okay, so apparently we were the ones who jumped on the bandwagon intending to kill somebody. whereas you jumped between two, contradict yourself while doing it, try to lynch someone who has posted much more content than the other. lol. Then what did you say? You dont see what the advantage could possibly be? well, its certainly no less advantageous than saying you have no reads, jumping on 2 different bandwagons and settling on someone that you dont really think is scum. now is he trying to set the blame on us?
+ Show Spoiler +On April 07 2012 07:58 Therapist. wrote:
Sorry about the delay on this post. My local Verizon decided to give out last night and put a damper on my plans for the evening. Anyway, my analysis thus far is as follows.
4. Gossemerr
Gossemerr started out not wanting to lynch a lurker. But as the inactivity of the day went on, he felt a need to get some activity going, so he voted for a lurker. I now see this not as a contradiction, but just as annoyance that no one was posting anything. This has been a rather lurky bunch, so I don't blame him. It is confusing however that he didn't change his vote once Lyter replied, but he claims being unavailable. I agree with his decision to apply some pressure... and it is even more understandable that he didn't change his vote since now that I remember it would have made him get voted off. I am leaning towards Townie for Gossemerr.
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5. BlueyD
BlueyD is really going after Gossemerr for no particular reason. I personally voted Gossemerr day one because of the mild contradiction he made and Lyter's defense of himself. It was the only other place I could really go. But then after that and rethinking about it, Gossemerr made a lot more sense to me and there was no major contradiction in his decision making. BlueyD has no such opinion and immediately sets his sights on Gossemerr, writing out an attack against him. I'm not sure why this attack is necessary, because there was really no scum behavior from Gossemerr. You seem awfully focused on someone who took the lead in getting information for us. You poke in at me for changing my vote on day one. Doesn't really make sense for you to be suspicious of me for it, but I guess that's the nature of the game. I feel like your posts are over accusatory at this point with very little information to go by. This makes me suspicious of you.
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6.LazinCajun
I can't get too much of a read on LazinCajun because he came late to the game and has a very short filter. At the same time, he's mostly staying out of things. He's making some posts here and there replying to things, but none of them have any real content. He's basically just saying over and over again that he has no opinion. I would really like to hear what he has to say based on looking through peoples' filters. As such, I can just say that I think he is suspiciously laying low.
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7. Era
Era posts very little content for awhile, and then goes into what is in my opinion a shoddy argument against BlueyD. I think that you can make an argument against BlueyD, but I don't think his post really has anything meaningful to say. I agree that it's strange to be joking and such like he is, but I dont' see why he shouldn't. People can have whatever flavor they want really and we can't really get a read from the fact that he's having a little fun with his posts. Most of the argument has to do with his flavor, but he also claims a contradiction when BlueyD talks about threatening based on meta being difficult in a newbie game. It makes sense because there's either 1. No history to work with, or 2. Not enough experience to recognize behaviors as they apply to the game. I don't think era is necessarily scummy, but his posts really don't seem to have too much meaning outside of some little tidbits here and there.
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8. Bocki
He was practically completely silent day one, letting people find their own way to a green and then jumping on the bandwagon as it came up. Everything is "okay, I agree" for whatever case people are making up until it's against him. If he continues to mostly just jump on bandwagons, I will get more suspicious. As of right now, I am in the middle on Bocky.
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9. Nova_Terra
By far the most active poster who seems to spend a bit too much time critisizing the style of responses rather than providing meaningful analysis of the responses. At the same time, he does provide lots of analysis and keeps the conversation going quite effectively. I would be sad to see him lynched purely on the basis that he keeps things moving. Plus, I don't think his efforts to draw attention to himself and expose so many other people are very scummy. I think Nova is pretty town at this point.
So, this type of post is what i talked about earlier. This is Therapists only analysis in the game. And, its a scummy one at that. why? because it is not filter based, it goes shortly over multiple people and doesnt get a very good read, and allows the person if mafia to cleverly locate their mafia teammates suspicionwise, so if they die later they can say OH I SAID HE WAS SCUM EARLIER. Its the same as what i did last game as Scum. Here, he notes BlueyD as scummy.
Next post is a bit of WIFOM and a vote on BlueyD,because he is his strongest read. no problem right there.
2 posts on "well i hope this doesnt happen" and "this looks bad for town" mentality.
and suddenly...... with no other information.......
+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2012 11:04 Therapist. wrote:
I don't believe BlueyD to be mafia. I strongly disagree with bandwagoning onto him immediately. Instead, I would question the motives behind Bocki and LazinCajun INSTANTLY throwing down votes on BlueyD. For the time being I am going to focus my analysis on the two of them and see what I can come up with. AT LEAST one of them is 100% mafia in my opinion. I'll post more details later, but I really wanted to get this out there that I think those two should be the focus of our investigation for day 3.
DONT BANDWAGON BLUEYD! Its scummy if anyone votes him now! why would you vote so early? A chainsaw defense of someone you literally just voted as scum, and said was your scummiest read, but suddenly without any analysis regarding him at all, everyone voting him is scummy. just, what?
So theres many contradictions, no content posted that isnt scummy, and strange changes. And my scummiest read.
##Vote: Therapist
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I have to note in bocki's defense, why did you think that Therapist or era was a good analyst? really?
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EBWOP: Not posting in bockis defense,i mean i am referencing it
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Nova, I agree 100%.
My simple argument I mentioned earlier against therapist is simply this:
I believe one of BlueyD / Bocki is town and the other mafia based their voting for each other.
The last mafia would either be me (i know i'm not by mod PM ), you, or therapist. If my decision is between you and therapist, then therapist is by far the better lynch. You could be playing a mafia role very well, but as you correctly noted Therapist has contributed basically nothing to gain the town any information.
##Unvote: BlueyD
##Vote: Therapist
I bet Therapist ends up being a unanimous lynch and turns up red, with the 3rd town joining our vote and his teammate throwing him under the bus to save his chances for next round.
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EBWOP: I didn't want to reveal that argument until I knew your read on therapist because I didn't want the BlueyD / Bocki votes to change just yet. I didn't want the mafia to come up with a crazy WIFOM plan of voting for each other to obscure things further.
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Okay, like I said lazin, we have to work together to get the mafia.
So I will change my vote from my suspect #1 to suspect #2 to get a maf.
##Unvote: BlueyD
##Vote: Therapist
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I just want to make it clear that voting for therapist now does not necessarily indicate innocence. Assuming my vote and nova's don't change, therapist would've been lynched on our two votes alone, so it's likely therapist will be unanimously lynched.
Nova, I propose we concentrate on BlueyD and Bocki now. I will of course consider what Therapist posts, but it will have to be very convincing at this point.
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On Bocki’s post:
Really? You don’t see why I’m alive? My best 2 reads (era and Goss) on day 1 flipped townie, so we know there was no reason at all for scum to hit me night 1 while they were both still alive: Scum knew I wasn’t targeting them so I was no danger. On day 2 it became clear I would be the easiest day 3 lynch target, so scum was obviously going to save me for that lynch and hit someone else night 2. There's zero reason to suspect me due to my alive status.
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Well I meant to add a section on Therapist here, because he’s my second scum read, but I see Nova got there ahead of me and it's pretty good. The filters show me why I wasn’t getting a read on him: he has about zero content. His last post is the most telling by far.
It is EXTREMELY suspicious that he voted for me day 2, but then turned around day 3 and told people not to bandwagon without explaining AT ALL why he completely turned around, and made it look like I was under zero suspicion for him which is entirely unrealistic. He has this fun habit of voting before and not after an analysis (if any), which to me means he might have interests other than town’s.
I can’t wait to see what Therapist posts next.
Bocki and Therapist are my scumreads.
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EBWOP:
Glad we all agree on Therapist, at least.
##Unvote: Bocki
##Vote: Therapist
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Bocki: I did not intend that as an accusation, merely a note. It applies equally to everybody still in the game, even nova and myself. I probably didn't need to post it anyway, as therapist getting 4 votes was pretty much a foregone conclusion.
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Let me preface this post by stating that we are in Lynch or Lose. People who are throwing their votes in without a second thought with no convincing necessary are misinformed. This is the point where we absolutely must try as hard as possible to get an accurate mafia read. Instantly jumping on a bandwagon because someone made a case you think to be convincing is misinformed. Instead, let me recommend that we meet a case that someone proposes and try to either make it stronger or debunk it. None of this "Glad we agree, vote this person!" stuff.
Now let's think about this for just a moment. It's LYLO for the town. All the votes go on me. Everyone agrees without a second thought. Whoever is in the mafia feels no need to defend me, because if the lynch on me goes through, the game is over and mafia wins.
BlueyD, shame on you for immediately dropping your strong case against Bocki and going for me. Bluey is one of my highest town reads for the moment, so I urge him especially to take a second look and re-analyze the situation.
From my point of view, 2 of these 3 are definitely mafia. 100% no doubt in my mind it is 2 out these three: Bocki, LazinCajun, and NovaTerra. Operating from this perspective, we see that Bocki doesn't take much to be convinced to change his vote. He votes for BlueyD from the start, which is one of my strongest town reads. Then, with no additional information offerred or even thinking of a possibility that I'm not scum, Bocki changes his vote to me as soon as someone makes a case against me. I believe this to be in expectation of the bandwagon that followed against me, planning to keep the momentum in his favor against me. Bocki is my strongest scum read for this game.
Lazin seems the most intent on actually rooting out the mafia, and his focus on Bocki rather than on BlueyD or myself is a lot of proof of this from my standpoint of confidence in BlueyD and confidence in myself. I like that Lazin's eye is on Bocki through all of this and he agrees that voting on someone like me to root out a response is the right way to do it. I believe him to be the most willing to change his vote and be convinced that someone is mafia. Out of my 3 mafia reads, Lazin is the most likely to be town.
That brings us to NovaTerra. He posts a huge amount of fluff in the thread. He mostly spends his time calling out other peoples' arguments without offering any counter argument of his own. He just lets people know what's wrong with their argument. The two times he has posted a long analysis on somebody, they have both been town. Earlier in the thread, he made a long post against era, going post by post and trying to make each of his posts sound as mafia as possible. Now, he's come back with a long post against me saying that I am scum. I know myself to be town, so this second long post against a town member leads me to believe he already knows I'm town. Him immediately getting a bandwagon going instead of looking for some discussion also shows this to me. I believe NovaTerra to be the second scum over Lazin at this point.
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Anyway, as to NovaTerra's argument... he starts off focused on the inactivity. He doesn't even entertain the possibility that there is a reason for laying low besides being mafia. He jumps right on the inactivity as a certain mafia read and in fact dedicates half his long post to talking about my inactivity. You could've justified voting me based on inactivity earlier in the game as you could say that I "wasn't adding much to the game." But at this point, it's easy to call out a lurker as mafia and get them lynched based on the limited information that has been brought out on your target.
He calls me out a lot in this post as well for supposed contradictions. I change my mind about BlueyD and all of a sudden that's a major contradiction and I'm scum? No, I changed my mind about BlueyD and choose to focus my investigation elsewhere. Changing one's mind doesn't make one scum, it makes one intelligent. You have to look at the game as it develops and see what's really going on. And try to look past peoples' posts and speculate reasons for them playing as they do. You all scream MAFIA, but that's not the only reason someone would want to sit back.
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Therapist, I'd like you to explain to us how I managed to become your highest town read.
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Right now i only have time to go over the last part of this, will look into your things on everyone tomorrow morning.
Sure, there can be a reason for laying low. however, in this case, it wasnt only laying low. it was not getting involved in entire arguments, picking sides in issues. and even when you did post, there wasn't good analysis! inactivity can be either way, however when coupled with not contributing, it does make one more scummy. Another thing is, you are barely inactive. you defend everything that comes to you! BUT, you dont really contribute otherwise. thats not a townie characteristic.
Also, there were multiple minor contradictions, the biggest one being BlueyD. The fact that you made contradictions doesnt make you scum---its that there are more than 1, and because of such a small filter and lack of analysis, contradictions and random changes of opinion account for a good bit of your posting. And then theres the fact that you dont even take the time to explain your change in reasoning. one post you are voting BlueyD, and after two 1 liners you are suddenly hardcore against anyone that wanted to vote him.
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On April 10 2012 03:58 Therapist. wrote:
Instantly jumping on a bandwagon because someone made a case you think to be convincing is misinformed. Instead, let me recommend that we meet a case that someone proposes and try to either make it stronger or debunk it. None of this "Glad we agree, vote this person!" stuff.
Wait what? Voting on somebody because "somebody" (actually, I think several people) made a good case against them is a bad idea?
Secondly, there have been a couple of good cases against you. To summarize off the top of my head: I've suspected you for a while, ever since my post about voting habits. At the time it was pretty much a hunch, and I kinda ignored it after era flipped green. Nova posted a good analysis of your filter -- you really haven't done much to get information out of anybody, and your motives have been opaque. I happened to agree with all of it, for one of the few times all game. I posted a case based on my reads of the rest of the game (ie, me and nova town, one of blueyD/Bocki town, and you're the last that could be mafia). Everything does seem to point to you right now IMO.
Now let's think about this for just a moment. It's LYLO for the town. All the votes go on me. Everyone agrees without a second thought. Whoever is in the mafia feels no need to defend me, because if the lynch on me goes through, the game is over and mafia wins.
I hardly think "without a second thought" is accurate. Combining what I posted above with the fact that the town can't afford to split votes, you can't be too surprised to be under the gun here. Yes, the mafia has no reason to defend anybody. If they defend one of their own who is a lynch target, it will raise huge amounts of suspicion on that person tomorrow. If they defend a town, well, that's just dumb because of what you posted.
From my point of view, 2 of these 3 are definitely mafia. 100% no doubt in my mind it is 2 out these three: Bocki, LazinCajun, and NovaTerra. Operating from this perspective, we see that Bocki doesn't take much to be convinced to change his vote. He votes for BlueyD from the start, which is one of my strongest town reads. Then, with no additional information offerred or even thinking of a possibility that I'm not scum, Bocki changes his vote to me as soon as someone makes a case against me. I believe this to be in expectation of the bandwagon that followed against me, planning to keep the momentum in his favor against me. Bocki is my strongest scum read for this game.
I am genuinely confused on Bocki and BlueyD. At various points in the game, I've had both scum and town reads from both of them.
However, consider this: if Bocki is town, what would he gain by leaving his vote on BlueyD? BlueyD is basically in the same situation as Bocki, and he decided to switch his vote to you too. What else about Bocki gives you a scum read? What posts of his give you guilty vibes? You really have posted sufficient evidence to be convincing in my eyes.
Lazin seems the most intent on actually rooting out the mafia, and his focus on Bocki rather than on BlueyD or myself is a lot of proof of this from my standpoint of confidence in BlueyD and confidence in myself. I like that Lazin's eye is on Bocki through all of this and he agrees that voting on someone like me to root out a response is the right way to do it. I believe him to be the most willing to change his vote and be convinced that someone is mafia. Out of my 3 mafia reads, Lazin is the most likely to be town.
My eye is on you, Bocki, and BlueyD. I haven't come up with a good case for or against BlueyD yet, but Bocki and BlueyD will be my focus for the remainder of the game. One of either me or Nova will likely end up assassinated at the end of the upcoming night cycle if the game still continues, so it is important for us to get our opinions in before then.
That brings us to NovaTerra. He posts a huge amount of fluff in the thread. He mostly spends his time calling out other peoples' arguments without offering any counter argument of his own. He just lets people know what's wrong with their argument. The two times he has posted a long analysis on somebody, they have both been town. Earlier in the thread, he made a long post against era, going post by post and trying to make each of his posts sound as mafia as possible. Now, he's come back with a long post against me saying that I am scum. I know myself to be town, so this second long post against a town member leads me to believe he already knows I'm town. Him immediately getting a bandwagon going instead of looking for some discussion also shows this to me. I believe NovaTerra to be the second scum over Lazin at this point.
The strongest point here is that Nova has been incorrect in analysis 2 times. Guess what? I have too. I voted for those people as well, yet you read me as town and nova as scum. This is pretty inconsistent logic. I could very easily interpret that as you trying to make me suspicious of a townie Nova after I posted that he could be making an amazing mafia play.
Anyway, as to NovaTerra's argument... he starts off focused on the inactivity. He doesn't even entertain the possibility that there is a reason for laying low besides being mafia. He jumps right on the inactivity as a certain mafia read and in fact dedicates half his long post to talking about my inactivity. You could've justified voting me based on inactivity earlier in the game as you could say that I "wasn't adding much to the game." But at this point, it's easy to call out a lurker as mafia and get them lynched based on the limited information that has been brought out on your target.
So what's your reason for laying low besides being mafia? You have no reason to hide now, because if you do, you're lynched.
Secondly, there's limited information on you because of the persona you've presented during the game: Namely, you haven't posted much at all. When people were saying they had null reads on you, you still didn't post. It has only been under direct pressure that you've posted any sort of content at all.
He calls me out a lot in this post as well for supposed contradictions. I change my mind about BlueyD and all of a sudden that's a major contradiction and I'm scum? No, I changed my mind about BlueyD and choose to focus my investigation elsewhere. Changing one's mind doesn't make one scum, it makes one intelligent. You have to look at the game as it develops and see what's really going on. And try to look past peoples' posts and speculate reasons for them playing as they do. You all scream MAFIA, but that's not the only reason someone would want to sit back.
You know what the best (maybe only) defense of this argument would be? Posting a reasoned argument as to why you changed your mind, with posts from BlueyD to illustrate your point. You still refuse to post substantial arguments.
No, I don't think I'll be changing my vote based on this post. I'm going to devote the rest of my time to more opaque players.
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I'm gonna make this post short and simple.
I am the Sane Cop. I investigated Gossemerr night 1 and he was innocent, and BlueyD night 2 and he was innocent. This is as simple as that. Any further attacks on me are ill warranted. I was hoping Gossemerr would survive so I could 100% prove who the mafia were, but that is not the case. I can only narrow it down to the 3 I mentioned. I've been laying low all this time so as not to attract the attention of either town for lynching or mafia for shooting. Obviously I'm the most "worthless" to the town up to this point so mafia wouldn't shoot me, and the focus was on other people earlier.
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I'll reiterate - NovaTerra, LazinCajun, and Bocki are the ONLY POSSIBLE candidates for mafia.
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Strangely enough, that post is consistent with your goofy behavior all game long. If you do end up flipping town, I hope you learn this is why lurky play can be bad.
Does anybody wish to counterclaim? Note that being a doctor here would be sufficient for directly counterclaiming, as the town is limited to 2 blues.
Sadly Nova, your read of me was wrong, and I'm as green as this guy:
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhRZ_icTMDFADh5YoqAXO5FBI5BL59mOTNfZ5iCNik-eTsEHAL)
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EBWOP: your read that I'm blue was wrong*
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On April 10 2012 05:37 LazinCajun wrote:
Strangely enough, that post is consistent with your goofy behavior all game long. If you do end up flipping town, I hope you learn this is why lurky play can be bad.
Does anybody wish to counterclaim? Note that being a doctor here would be sufficient for directly counterclaiming, as the town is limited to 2 blues.
Sadly Nova, your read of me was wrong, and I'm as green as this guy:
Similarly, if you guys vote for me anyway and are NOT mafia and I flip blue, I hope you learn to at least try to think about all the targets before setting your sights locked on the guy whose play you claim is consistent with the role they claimed.
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At lot happened, these are my thoughts:
Therapist is on of the guys that didnt bring much content. As lazin said, he didnt respond to the "post more" postings from various others. Now he's under the gun and suddenly claims blue.
Not only does he claim blue, but he said he investigated BlueyD and gosse. Gosse is dead, so it wont do much to talk about that. But the "BlueyD is a towny" investigation is the scummiest part.
Lets see what we thought:
Bocki: Therapist and BlueyD scum
Lazin: Therapist and Bocki/BlueyD scum
Nova: Therapist and Bocki/BlueyD scum
BlueyD: Therapist and Bocki scum
Therapist: Nova, Lazin, Bocki scum
BlueyD and me think of each other as scum, I think mainly because we have been over each other the entire game.
Therapist comes up, says he's blue and makes BlueyD inno.
This is my prediction on what scum (therapist/blueyd) thought this will go downthis is after I switched to therapist, so 3 votes for therapist, 1 for me)
Therapist told BlueyD to vote for him, to complete the bandwagon
Therapist brings out the "blue"-hammer, makes BlueyD inno and calls Bock/lazin/nova scum.
Therapist hopes that one of us 3 switches votes to whoever but BlueyD (hey, he's inno! and therapist is blue!)
BlueyD switches to that person
Therapist votes that person.
That would make 3 votes and the lynch.
This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time. But calling investigating blueyd before... too convenient. He probably chose these 2 persons because he voted on the days before the night he claims to have investigated. He even brought up the idea of a tactical vote, just to call it "poor play"
On April 08 2012 01:47 Therapist. wrote:
I sure hope it's not scenario 3 as I am also voting for BlueyD. Seems like it'd be poor play to vote for your teammate early unless it's late in the game the person being voted for has been established as 100% scum.
On April 09 2012 11:04 Therapist. wrote:
I don't believe BlueyD to be mafia. I strongly disagree with bandwagoning onto him immediately. Instead, I would question the motives behind Bocki and LazinCajun INSTANTLY throwing down votes on BlueyD.
I clearly stated my motives, Lazin as well. So I dont know what you want to question about them. Maybe its just to try to produce confusion (hence the CAPITALIZATION).
I'll post more if I notice something else.
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Bocki is so focused and aggressive. There's no reason for him to not even want to look at anybody else. He's tunnel visioning his weak case on BlueyD and myself without even BOTHERING to look at the others. This guy is my top pick for scum and my vote goes to him for Day 3.
##Vote: Bocki
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Things getting complicated… >.<
I’m inclined to believe Therapist’s explanation because it’s more consistent with the rest of his actions than him being mafia. I also have yet another attack on Bocki…
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Therapist’s behavior = Day 2: Puts his vote on me, seems very willing to let me die. Day 3: Defends me hard.
Blue Therapist option: He DT checked me night 2 and is telling the truth. That is plausible: I was (and still am) suspected scum, so I would be a good pick for that check. Of course if he’s blue, then the red BlueyD option is entirely unthinkable.
Red Therapist, Green BlueyD option: If I’m green and he’s red, the day 3 behavior makes little sense. He would be putting himself at risk by defending me hard, a very strange thing to do if lynching me wins him the game.
Both Red option: Here, it’s his day 2 behavior that makes no sense. There would have been no reason to actively bus me at that point, and it would’ve been an incredibly risky move to plan to switch his D2 vote away from me if I needed some saving at the end. Only reason I still live, remember, is that Gossemerr (of all people) switched his vote.
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Bocki’s analysis is suspicious, again. A good part of his post reads like a conspiracy theory, so I’ll concentrate on the rest of his attack, which is essentially one paragraph:
(1) This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time. (2) But calling investigating blueyd before... too convenient. (3) He probably chose these 2 persons because he voted on the days before the night he claims to have investigated.
1. Contradictory. Bocki says now is effectively the best time for a blue to claim… But one did claim, and Bocki just dismisses it as “too convenient to be true”! Bocki doesn’t even seriously consider that Therapist may be blue. Why?
2. Why is this dismissed as “too convenient” too? If Bocki agrees that I looked scummy – and he really can’t disagree with that – then he also has to agree that I was a good DT check, no?
3. The whole point of being a cop is scumhunting, so cops check those who are most suspicious for them – often the same people they voted for, if they haven’t been lynched. He’s speculating again where there’s a much simpler explanation.
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To Nova and Lazin: I thought you two were townies, but if you’re ready to consider the possibility that Therapist is being truthful, you’ll have to also accept the idea that you two might not be on the same side after all.
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tldr: I have no way to be 100% sure that Therapist is telling the truth, but I’m leaning towards him being blue because it makes the most sense. Meanwhile, Bocki just dismisses that possibility with no analysis, sticking hard to his ‘convictions’. Which one looks the scummiest? Well…
##Unvote: Therapist
##Vote: Bocki
There’s my answer.
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On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote:
Therapist’s behavior = Day 2: Puts his vote on me, seems very willing to let me die. Day 3: Defends me hard.
Blue Therapist option: He DT checked me night 2 and is telling the truth. That is plausible: I was (and still am) suspected scum, so I would be a good pick for that check. Of course if he’s blue, then the red BlueyD option is entirely unthinkable.
Red Therapist, Green BlueyD option: If I’m green and he’s red, the day 3 behavior makes little sense. He would be putting himself at risk by defending me hard, a very strange thing to do if lynching me wins him the game.
Both Red option: Here, it’s his day 2 behavior that makes no sense. There would have been no reason to actively bus me at that point, and it would’ve been an incredibly risky move to plan to switch his D2 vote away from me if I needed some saving at the end. Only reason I still live, remember, is that Gossemerr (of all people) switched his vote.
This could easily be explained like this instead:
Red BlueyD, red Therapist option -- I point out a potential connection between you two based on day 1 votes. Day 2 you split your votes to hide mafia ties, and you're not really in any danger of dying since after Gossemer's vote (1.5 hours before the deadline, plenty of time for therapist to switch votes and save you) puts Era into the noose.
WIFOMy? A bit, but completely plausible since I thoroughly expected the mafia to split their Day 2 votes after my voting behavior post.
Bocki’s analysis is suspicious, again. A good part of his post reads like a conspiracy theory, so I’ll concentrate on the rest of his attack, which is essentially one paragraph: Show nested quote + (1) This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time. (2) But calling investigating blueyd before... too convenient. (3) He probably chose these 2 persons because he voted on the days before the night he claims to have investigated. 1. Contradictory. Bocki says now is effectively the best time for a blue to claim… But one did claim, and Bocki just dismisses it as “too convenient to be true”! Bocki doesn’t even seriously consider that Therapist may be blue. Why? 2. Why is this dismissed as “too convenient” too? If Bocki agrees that I looked scummy – and he really can’t disagree with that – then he also has to agree that I was a good DT check, no? 3. The whole point of being a cop is scumhunting, so cops check those who are most suspicious for them – often the same people they voted for, if they haven’t been lynched. He’s speculating again where there’s a much simpler explanation.
1) Bocki never said now is the best time for a blue to claim (???). Quote a post if I missed something please.
2) Of course you were a good DT check, but that doesn't help your case one way or the other. It provides Therapist with an explanation for his behavior if he's town, but it provides him with a cool explanation of his behavior if he's mafia too.
3) Again, this is no argument for Therapist being town. It could easily be interpreted either way.
To Nova and Lazin: I thought you two were townies, but if you’re ready to consider the possibility that Therapist is being truthful, you’ll have to also accept the idea that you two might not be on the same side after all.
tldr: I have no way to be 100% sure that Therapist is telling the truth, but I’m leaning towards him being blue because it makes the most sense. Meanwhile, Bocki just dismisses that possibility with no analysis, sticking hard to his ‘convictions’. Which one looks the scummiest? Well…
##Unvote: Therapist
##Vote: Bocki
There’s my answer.
To answer this -- based on the voting from earlier today, I believe switching my vote to Bocki would be a critical mistake for the town. At least one of BlueyD and Bocki is likely town. If both Bluey and Bocki are town, switching my vote is a mistake. If the town is Bocki, it makes no sense to switch my vote.
If the BlueyD is town, Bocki is red, and therapist is town as you'd like me to believe, then who is the other mafia? That leaves either me or nova. You'll have to do MUCH better that making a vague "Maybe you two aren't on the same side" statement. Vague statements like this are pretty scummy. This also fits the way the votes lie right now -- if therapist is scum, then Bocki is innocent, leaving BlueyD as the other scum.
Although Therapist is my best scum read, I am not 100% convinced that I'm right. However, BlueyD or Therapist need to make a specific case against Nova, myself, or both of us if you want to convince somebody to switch their vote, and make sure that it is good. DAMN good. Otherwise, this last statement just looks like a statement to try to pull Nova and I simultaneously to mislynch without any real content.
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On April 10 2012 05:56 Bocki wrote:
Therapist hopes that one of us 3 switches votes to whoever but BlueyD (hey, he's inno! and therapist is blue!)
BlueyD switches to that person
Therapist votes that person.
Well, looks like my prediction came true, just that the order switched. But I think this is mostly due to therapist seeing that he cant wait for someone else and has to start the vote himself.
On April 10 2012 07:02 Therapist. wrote:
Bocki is so focused and aggressive. There's no reason for him to not even want to look at anybody else. He's tunnel visioning his weak case on BlueyD and myself without even BOTHERING to look at the others.
I said numerous times that I may be too focused on BlueyD, but I also made comments about others. I didnt make a case against anyone else because I didnt see anything (which makes kind of sense since until now, only town/blue has died). I didnt see anything about you because you posted only a few times and to be true, you slipped my mind. But the cases against you were good, and they fit my town-reads (lazin/nova) so I have no reason to doubt that you and BlueyD are mafia. Specially after both of your recent votes.
On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote:
There would have been no reason to actively bus me at that point, and it would’ve been an incredibly risky move to plan to switch his D2 vote away from me if I needed some saving at the end. Only reason I still live, remember, is that Gossemerr (of all people) switched his vote.
.. that is unless he would have switched his vote. He had time enough and could have gone with the same reason that gosse wrote.
On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote:
1. Contradictory. Bocki says now is effectively the best time for a blue to claim… But one did claim, and Bocki just dismisses it as “too convenient to be true”! Bocki doesn’t even seriously consider that Therapist may be blue. Why?
2. Why is this dismissed as “too convenient” too? If Bocki agrees that I looked scummy – and he really can’t disagree with that – then he also has to agree that I was a good DT check, no?
3. The whole point of being a cop is scumhunting, so cops check those who are most suspicious for them – often the same people they voted for, if they haven’t been lynched. He’s speculating again where there’s a much simpler explanation.
Like lazin said: I didnt say that this is the best time to call blue, I only said that, beeing under the gun, is the only time to call blue. And I would consider it more or would even believe it, IF there wasnt that convenient truth that he investigated you to make BlueyD a 100% Towner. That is what I meant with "too convenient". Because if you too are maf, you only need to get 1 out of 2 (since I am not going to vote myself) to vote for me. Thats why therapist voted me instead of lazin or nova. It is easier for BlueyD to say "yeah, I thought that the whole time" if they go for me. Right now, I'm the weakest target because lazin and nova are pretty convinced of each other to be green. I am in question of beeing scum, so it's naturally to go for me, altough the cases against me were vague at best.
On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote:
Meanwhile, Bocki just dismisses that possibility with no analysis, sticking hard to his ‘convictions’. Which one looks the scummiest? Well…
This is funny if you think about it. I voted for BlueyD on D2 and started the vote for BlueyD on D3. If I would stay with my 'conviction' I would keep my vote for BlueyD, and suddenly, its a 2-2-1 situation. Wouldnt that make me look less scummy? Since I wouldnt be working together with my "partner" but go on a solo mission? I choose not to stay on you, because as Lazin said: The town needs to stick together to win this.
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On April 10 2012 13:28 LazinCajun wrote:
This could easily be explained like this instead:
Red BlueyD, red Therapist option -- I point out a potential connection between you two based on day 1 votes. Day 2 you split your votes to hide mafia ties, and you're not really in any danger of dying since after Gossemer's vote (1.5 hours before the deadline, plenty of time for therapist to switch votes and save you) puts Era into the noose.
I overlooked that you wrote this, but it's good that we both thought of it like this.
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Lazin said:
Red BlueyD, red Therapist option -- I point out a potential connection between you two based on day 1 votes. Day 2 you split your votes to hide mafia ties, and you're not really in any danger of dying since after Gossemer's vote (1.5 hours before the deadline, plenty of time for therapist to switch votes and save you) puts Era into the noose.
If we're both red and we did this, then that means the plan included either a) bussing me while other lynch targets were available (era) in a game with only 2 reds, or b) therapist switching his vote to last-minute save me, which would have aroused instant suspicion and provided a much clearer connection case than both of us voting together from the start. I repeat: Option B, which is what you and Bocki both think is true, would be extremely stupid play. In a situation where therapist and I are the reds, this option leads straight to our consecutive lynches. It just can’t be true.
Lazin said:
1) Bocki never said now is the best time for a blue to claim (???). Quote a post if I missed something please.
Bocki said:
(1) This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time.
I interpret this to mean “we generally want blues to stay hidden most of the time, so it’s understandable that if Therapist’s claim is true, it only comes up now that he’s on the block: before was a bad time to claim, and after would be too late, therefore now is the best moment”. So, yeah, Bocki dismisses the possibility as “too convenient”, then admits it is consistent with good blue play in the next sentence. Scummy, scummy, scummy.
You missed the goal of points 2 and 3 here: they are meant to attack Bocki, not to defend Therapist. I’m entirely aware that these do not make Therapist look more town-aligned, and that both explanations (red and blue) are an adequate explanation for these parts of his behavior. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make in that part of my post: Bocki never even considers the blue Therapist possibility. He just says “nah, can’t be”, and offers no explanation except speculations which start with what he has to prove: He assumes from the start that Therapist and I are red. This is tunnel vision.
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Lazin, that little message to Nova and you was mostly meant to not just rely on what the other is saying – you’ve both looked town-aligned to each other (and to me) for a while and openly said so, but neither of you is actually confirmed.
I feel you’re taking us away from the immediate issue, which is “which of Therapist and Bocki is scum?” You’re asking me to find all the mafia right now when all we need for today is one.
I don’t have a case against either of you right now and I have a busy day today (will be back home too late for the lynch; have access to a computer at my lab but will probably not be playing mafia much), so I don’t think I’ll have time to make the case you want me to do now.
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Here’s what it comes down to for me now:
- My read on Therapist is 90% blue.
- My read on Bocki is 90% red.
- This leaves one of Nova and Lazin as scum and one as townie. Do I have a case on either? No, and in all likelihood I won’t today, but all we need right now is one red.
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Okay, a lot has happened since i had to go last night.
Therapists call, Bockis ideas relating to it, BlueyD's, Lazins....
So heres where i stand.
I was looking into a BlueyD/Therapist connection. And, it wasnt too far fetched, except for how Therapist went against blueyD on day 2.
But then i noticed something. Both Therapist and BlueyD had said things multiple times about how it was unlikely a mafia would bus their own on day 2. However it was thought that they could be a connection, and they started saying that a bus was very unlikely.
Wouldnt it be convenient if therapist was bussing BlueyD to try to get in good standing, and then if the vote was swingable, which it was, Therapist could go off of him, and if not, Therapist was in excellent standing. and then theres the fact that the two people that Therapist had 'checked' were BlueyD, and a dead guy (who Therapist happened to agree with.) IF Therapist and blueyD were mafia, this is smart. Its also convenient for explaining a bus. Choose ally as inno, and choose dead person that you read as inno. looks perfect eh?
Bocki has really made good posts today, and Therapist and BlueyD pretty much acted exactly as Bocki said. and Therapist uses exactly what bocki says again in the next post, CAPITALIZATION for influence and possibly trying to confuse us further. Lazin has also made good arguments against some of the posts.
In conclusion? I think that with Bocki and Lazin, i am voting with the town. It certainly feels like it, and seeing as WIFOM on this blue call can go either way, i think it is in my best interest to vote with the two people i think are town. just like Lazin, i am not 100% certain, nor can i be after all of this. But unless i can be convinced soon that both Bocki and Lazin are scum, i think my vote will stay in agreement with theirs.
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You say that I'm trying to change the issue by focusing on nova, but then a couple lines later you say that your own reads are only consistent with the game state if one of me/nova is red. You're asking me to sweep that critical fact under the rug, which I just can't logically do without some modicum of evidence of Nova. (Who is avoiding the issue?)
I haven't been able to come up with any good evidence against Nova. The only thing I have against him so far is that he has made mistakes, but the whole town has made mistakes the entire game! I really can't find anything in his filter that makes me think he's red.
However, I am reasonable. Bluey's interpretation of Therapist's behavior are probably the simplest, although I do think my own are plausible. It would be much easier if Therapist hadn't been so damn lurky all game long.
I am willing to accept that my perspective on Nova could be skewed. However, somebody would need to be convince me.
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^ Clearly, the "you" in this post refers to BlueyD. nova ninja'ed his post in between bluey's and mine.
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Wrote some stuff during lunch break:
Lazin: I don’t know which of you and Nova is town and which is scum. I don’t have a case prepared, and I’m at work.
Therapist: Since I can’t do it, try to look through the Nova and Lazin filters and make a case…
Nova: What’s the advantage of a soft-bus with possibility of last-hour save? There’s none! Last-hour save from therapist on me would be incredibly suspicious given his branding me scummy. And the way Therapist ‘bussed’ me hardly makes him look more pro-town; he wasn’t the one making the attacks against me. I also have to disagree with your assessment of Bocki’s “good posts” – he’s predicting what I’ll do correctly to gain credit - that part works because as red I'd do roughly the same thing - and then calling said behavior scummy even though it's not. He hasn’t even taken a look at the blue possibility.
Bocki: You’re scum! :-p Still, take a serious look at the blue possibility. Just for fun.
Lunch break over. Be back in about 2 hours.
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On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote:
I interpret this to mean “we generally want blues to stay hidden most of the time, so it’s understandable that if Therapist’s claim is true, it only comes up now that he’s on the block: before was a bad time to claim, and after would be too late, therefore now is the best moment”. So, yeah, Bocki dismisses the possibility as “too convenient”, then admits it is consistent with good blue play in the next sentence. Scummy, scummy, scummy.
Basically you are saying: Whatever I would have said about the blue claim, it would make me look scummy. From your perspective, therapist is 90% blue (I'll get to that later) which means that (since you say you are green), 2 out of Lazin/Nova/Bocki are red. Yet you did not post any red-things about neither of the other two (only saying that both somehow agreed that they are green... no other read or analysis). So I seem to be the only red... That would be a surprise for all of us I bet :D
On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote:
You missed the goal of points 2 and 3 here: they are meant to attack Bocki, not to defend Therapist. I’m entirely aware that these do not make Therapist look more town-aligned, and that both explanations (red and blue) are an adequate explanation for these parts of his behavior. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make in that part of my post: Bocki never even considers the blue Therapist possibility. He just says “nah, can’t be”, and offers no explanation except speculations which start with what he has to prove: He assumes from the start that Therapist and I are red. This is tunnel vision.
I considered that he was blue. I said that his position was the only position to make sense to call blue. And I say the "but" again: ...., but making you green from his investigation just fits too good into scum play! To write some percentage points from my view about possible investigations:
2 dead people: 50% chance. (From the rules, this would be possible, but very unlikely)
1 dead, lazin: 80% chance (since I am pretty sure that he is green, based on my own analysis and of others)
1 dead, nova: 80% chance (since I am pretty sure that he is green, based on my own analysis and of others)
1 dead, bocki: 100% chance (of course)
1 dead, blueyd: 0% chance (based on the reads from several people about a possible connection between you two)
2 alive people: 0% chance. If he would have gotten both red in his "investigations", he could have just said so and the town would have won, even if he died. Then we could have seen that he was blue and accepted both of his investigations.
On the "he assumes from the start..": No I didnt. I assumed that you are red for a few days, but therapist slipped my mind (as I already said). But after the analysis from Nova and myself looking through his posts, I agreed that he is scummy.
On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote:
Lazin, that little message to Nova and you was mostly meant to not just rely on what the other is saying – you’ve both looked town-aligned to each other (and to me) for a while and openly said so, but neither of you is actually confirmed.
No one can be actually confirmed as anything at this point. The only way to be a confirmed green/red in this game is after the person dies or if the sane cop confirmes you and then dies (to confirm that he was indeed the sane cop). So everything is based on reads from the postings and voting behaviour.
On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote:
Here’s what it comes down to for me now:
- My read on Therapist is 90% blue.
- My read on Bocki is 90% red.
- This leaves one of Nova and Lazin as scum and one as townie. Do I have a case on either? No, and in all likelihood I won’t today, but all we need right now is one red.
I know why you think that I'm red (well.. to be true not completely, but okay). But I would like to know why you believe Therapist in his blue claim so much. Only because he called you green? As opposed to me, you haven't written an analysis of his blue claim and why you support it so much. To say it in your words:
On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote:
Scummy, scummy, scummy.
On April 11 2012 03:01 BlueyD wrote:
Therapist: Since I can’t do it, try to look through the Nova and Lazin filters and make a case…
Again: Why the belief in therapist? Like Lazin said, there is not much to read from his posts, yet you seem pretty determined that he is blue.
Lazin:
On April 11 2012 02:27 LazinCajun wrote:
It would be much easier if Therapist hadn't been so damn lurky all game long.
Exactly. This makes it hard to take the blue claim any more serious than I take it now.
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BlueyD and myself are town and we know it. There's one other townie among the three of you guys. Don't let yourself be misled by the others. Two of Bocki/Lazin/Nova will not change their mind and will continue to pressure against Bluey and myself despite all evidence presented. So I strongly strongly strongly urge the townsman among you to change your vote. You are in a unique position of knowing exactly who the two mafia are. If you assume Bluey and myself are innocent, who are those two? You know. You can vote for one of them, then tell us who the other one is tomorrow. Town can still win this. It's all on you.
Anyway, Bocki attacks my claim that I am blue. He says that the fact that I suspected BlueyD so hard and now proclaim him innocent is massively scummy. He thinks that my blue claim was planned from the start and that I am scum for it. It makes sense for me investigate the two people I voted on - they were the people I thought were most suspicious at the time. You recognize this, however, you don't address the fact that Gossemerr was EXECUTED! If my plan were in fact to prove BlueyD's innocence by roleclaiming cop, why would I choose to MURDER someone who I executed? Would it not make more sense to leave my second "investigation" alive so that he could say "Oh yeah he identified me correctly" and add to my credibility as a blue? It makes no sense for me to be mafia and kill Gossemerr. I am the Sane Cop and my statements are true. If I wanted to lie, I'd just pick someone else who was alive.
And once again I'd like to point out that he doesn't even consider that my statement might be the truth. He immediately just tries to debunk it. At this point in the game, he should be interested in doing a deeper analysis on the other members of the game instead of blindly swearing that I am scum. At the very least he could make a case for why he thinks the others are INNOCENT. Instead he just continues to attack me, trying to make sure that attention doesn't get redistributed in the last moments. If Bocki IS NOT scum, then it is very very poor town play to be so uninterested in information.
Bocki says himself that he's too focused on BlueyD and I. However, he STILL refuses to make any case against or for anyone else. If he's recognizing his own error in play, why would he not make an effort to correct it and post reads and cases for others? This is pointless.
Another thing to point out about Lazin is that he and Bocki have been somewhat at each others' throats all game, mildly attacking each other. Now at the end, they do not offer any suspicion of each other whatsoever. In fact, they are working very much together to get me or BlueyD lynched. If I were to stake the game on a vote, it would be Bocki, but Lazin would be close behind at this point after reading through their filters again.
Again, I urge the innocent among Bocki/Lazin/Nova to come forward and place his vote! If Bocki is guilty, place your vote alongside us and bring us a step closer to ending this game. A red pull should prove my innocence and allow us to win the game on the next round. We can do it!
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Two hours until day ends.
Current votes:
BlueyD (0) Bocki, Lazincajun
Therapist. (3) Nova_Terra, Bocki, Lazincajun
Bocki (2) BlueyD, Therapist.
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Hm, I just realized that bocki and nova voted together day 1, then voted separately day 2 just as therapist / blueyD voted together day 1, then separate day 2, so I can't really take anything out of that analysis.
Therapist I question why you're still looking at Bocki rather than following the discussion and making a case against Nova or myself to get the other to flip their vote.
I've made it abundantly clear that I'm not 100% convinced of Nova's innocence, and that I would be willing to swap my vote with a good argument against him. Ignoring my request to make a case against Nova is just bad play, whether you're mafia OR town. It makes me think that either
1) You didn't read the latest discussion before voting
2) You can't come up with a good case against nova because he actually is town and has acted as such all game, or
3) You think I'm scum, in which case you should be making a case against me in order to get nova to change votes, and it's still bad play either way.
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Yeah, i'm kind of waiting for a *great* case against lazin to be made. If that happens, there is a good chance that i might change my vote. Otherwise, i still think that i am voting with the two other town members left in the game.
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I only have 20 minutes.
Lazin if you're town you have enough info to see that Bocki is a lot scummier than therapist.
Both were inactive at the start but therapist gave us a plausible reason for his behavior, Bocki has not.
When Bocki was asked to contribute he was almost angry about being pulled from the shadows.
Bocki never had an original thought, he didn't start the attack on me and he didn't start the attack on therapist. Therapist basically started the defense of me, with a turnaround that can only be explained if therapist and I are both retard scum, or uncoordinated scum, or town-aligned.
Bocki freaking scumslipped!
If you're townie, are you seriously going to let all of this slip because you're convinced Nova is townie?
Don't you wonder why Goss is dead instead of you and Nova? Might it not be because one of you is scum and the other is scumshield?
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This is realistically my last post of the game:
- If any town dies, game's over.
- If Therapist dies and flips scum, then that's the best framing job I've ever seen, and I won't even try to defend myself because it's useless.
- If somehow Bocki gets lynched and he flips scum, then I'm confirmed town (only 1 mafia left, if it's me then therapist is blue as he says and he checked me so I can't be scum), therapist is hit at night for being a cop, and I'm still gonna have trouble picking between Nova and you. But at least the game goes on.
At least you're reading and considering our posts. Nova just seems to be agreeing with Bocki here.
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I'm out of time. Unless stuff changes, GG scum.
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Nova since you're around (hopefully still around), let me ask you a question:
Why did you switch from saying you dislike connection type cases in an early post to saying that you liked mine? What about it made you change your stance?
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Lazin, which case do you mean? can you quote it for me?
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This one:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325394¤tpage=12#234
On April 07 2012 14:21 LazinCajun wrote:Everybody is making arguments based on posts, so after doing that I thought I'd take a closer look at voting patterns to see if we're missing anything there. Plus, I tend to be better at logic than reading people, so it made the most sense to analyze votes to me. At first I was a little weary of posting this, since it may tip the mafia off about avoiding suspicious voting patterns. I realized that in order to avoid those suspicious voting patterns, the mafia may end up not ganging up on an innocent in the future, strengthening the town's position anyway, so here goes! Here is my summary of Day 1 voting: --Gossemer votes Lyter: This looks like a pressure vote to get things started. When lyter turns up green, it *may* throw some suspicion on Gossemer, but I didn't think it particularly did. --Nova votes Lyter based on Lyter's lack of posting. No surprise. --Imallinson votes Lyter "seeing as there isn't a better option at the moment" (bandwagony?) --Bocki votes Lyter "Good as any" (bandwagony?) --BlueyD votes Lyter, but encourages him to defend himself --era votes Lyter (repeats nova's reasoning, bandwagony) --Therapist votes Lyter --I hop on the bandwagon for Lyter reluctantly since he still hadn't posted a defense. --Lyter posts, votes Gossemerr --imallinson unvotes lyter, votes me, presumably because i want to "out a blue" (and he turns up blue ) Looking back on it, this could have come of to the mafia as paranoia about somebody outing a blue, and may be why he got killed night 1. --Within 3 minutes of each other, era and therapist unvote lyter and vote gossemerr. --A couple minutes later (very close to the deadline now) BlueyD votes Lyter. Just looking at the order, I found it interesting that era and therapist voted lyter back to back, then switched to gossemerr so quickly. It's likely a coincidence, but an interesting anomaly considering their switch to gossemerr occured within 3 minutes of each other, which could suggest they agreed to something in a PM then voted. This argument is weakened by the fact that they voted close to the deadline (~40 minutes before) when likely lots of people were considering changing their vote and reading the thread. Final Day 1 votes: Gossemerr: era / therapist / lyter(Town) / blueyD Lyter: Gossemer / Nova / Bocki / me LazinCajun: imallinson(Town) If you operate under the assumption that day 1 the mafia will vote together (not necessarily a good assumption! If both gossemer and lyter are truly town, the mafia knew this and would've won no matter who gets lynched, and it may have been beneficial for them to split their votes to defuse suspicion). Looking at the voters who ended up on Lyter: I know that I'm town, and I strongly suspect that Nova is town. Various people have aired their suspicions of both Gossemer and Bocki which I won't repeat here, and this would seem to connect them. Looking at the voters who ended up voting Gossemerr: I argued above that era and therapist seem to be linked as well in swapping to Gossemerr with their strange post timings, but TBH I'm not sure that the mafia would have a strong motivation to switch off of Lyter. In Summary: Based on voting patterns, I believe that either Gossemer and Bocki may be linked as scum, or that a two out of era / therapist / blueyD are linked as scum. Based on the strange post timings, I think it's more likely that era and therapist would be connected than BlueyD. The next thing I plan on doing is going through people's posted suspicions carefully -- at first looking only at who they accuse, not with my own interpretations / suspicions -- and seeing if I can use it to augment this argument.
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hold on a sec, i need to grab my connection case that was bad that i made in my first town game.
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On March 16 2012 01:44 Nova_Terra wrote:I am beginning to notice a connection as well between Eleanthas, Gossemerr, and Inferno. By connection, in some cases, I mean lack of connection. You will see what i mean. I recommend that everybody goes to google images, searches "I haz a hunch" and see the first result. ''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu.~Eleanthas on InfernOokami The Gossemerr caseIn Gossemerr's filter, He mentions Eleanthas a grand total of 1 time, In which he soft defends him by saying he fails to see why Eleanthas was more suspicious than anyone else. In gossemerr's 12 ingame posts, half of them are meaningless 1-2 lines or short answers that can barely be counted as contributing. Then, there is that post that soft defends ele, The post where he decides to lynch Firmtofu without much reasoning on his part, and the post where he says that he thinks firm is town, presents an unlikely situation, and decides to continue lynching him anyway. Yes, a grand total of 3 posts he makes contain any real information. In one, he throws a bit of sight to janaans "weird" posting timing, and ends it by trying to make it seem like he isnt trying to direct any attention. In another, he analyzes why we shouldnt no lynch, so a totally worthless post really. In the last, he dreams up a connection between Janaan, Phagga, and myself. Then he votes janaan with little reasoning, and this little reasoning had already been brought up by me. so just restating what i had said. Then add that to how he says phagga makes little analysis, etc. Also, He appears to want a active lynch instead of a lurker lynch. which didnt bother me originally, but now i can see what this did, if he was a mafia with Eleanthas and InfernO. Ele and Gossemerr had been semi lurking, posting barely any content. InfernO is a hardcore lurker. I think he is trying to distract attention away from lurkers/semi lurkers by his Janaan voting post. Also, Gossemerr never mentions infernOokami. ever. And, as i explained in a post or two ago, Gossemerr seems to be here, a lot. The Eleanthas caseEleanthas mentions Gossemerr a grand total of ZERO times in his entire filter. He really never adds anything of great value to the table, and when in agreement with someone pretty just restates what they said. Not only is this suspicious within itself, but 2 of eleanthas' 8 Posts soft defend InfernO. On Inferno's first non-lurk post, Ele responds by not questioning his lurking, more just stating that Inferno is trying to lurk, which was relatively obvious, and kind of gives him the free pass by saying that he would like to hear more from Inferno in the future. In his latest post, he defends Inferno's lurking in a relatively moderate manner. He says that he defends himself, and doesnt seem to have much of a problem with inferno having said the same thing multiple times. Every now and then he comes in with a 1 or 2 liner to make it seem like he is adding something to the discussion. for instance, or Show nested quote +I don't really like putting list of guys who should be checked and tell DT to check one of them. If mafia has framer, it makes it too easy to make someone appear as mafia. Which may seem partially helpful, but all it really does is help is it helps stop the spread of town information. Or even still Show nested quote +I hope that people learn my name by the end of the game or only call me as Ele ^^ Meaningless fluff continuing yep and last but not least Show nested quote +Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak. Yes, that is 5 of Eleanthas' 8 ingame posts that are 1-2 lines and dont really contribute. Then count the fact that 2 of his other 3 posts have defended Inferno. Yes, 2 thirds of eleanthas' posts have been to defend or reference inferno's play as not being very suspicious. Then add that with the fact that Inferno has been lurking, and how Eleanthas' first post says that we should lynch a lurker (maybe), and how Eleanthas refuses to suspect inferno. I am liking this connection more and more. The InfernOokami7 CaseLets delve into InfernO's extensive 6 ingame posts. Most of which are made to avoid being replaced, it seems. One, he asks about his opinion in a question. Two, he further explains his side. Three, he adds to it. Four, he clarifies it Five, He clarifies a typo SIX! He finally posts analysis! He distracts from our suspiciousness of his own absence by noting how i seem to have little to say about FirmTofu's absence. at the time, my stances were already being questioned, and therefore this could be seen as an attempt to further find me suspicious. then he uses WIFOM to further prove his side. and attempts to jump onboard the bandwagon which Ele and Gosse had jumped on as well. All in all, InfernO isnt extremely suspicious, but when coupled with the way Ele and Gosse have been acting about him, i can see in my mind a mafia trio. I like this hunch. A lot. I would love to see people's thoughts on this. I worked hard ^^
Okay, that was my connection case from my first game.
The reason why i find this applicable?
Okay, i find your case much different. it is really well presented, as well as 1. original, and 2. based on fact (voting patterns.)
In my case, which is really what i meant by connection case, I decided somebody was scum because or how people acted regarding that person.
Compare that to your case, where you note similarities between the patterns of a couple people and suggest possible teams based on that. Whereas i took soft defenses of people and said OH THATS A TEAM.
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so pretty much your case was different than what i meant by connection case. I should clarify this next time around.
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i need to go for 30 minutes, back before deadline i promise
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Ok, I buy it. Your connection case sucked
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On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote:
Both were inactive at the start but therapist gave us a plausible reason for his behavior, Bocki has not.
I wasnt inactive, I was just not posting fluff or blindly accusing someone. I was never inactive the whole game.
On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote:
When Bocki was asked to contribute he was almost angry about being pulled from the shadows.
I wasnt angry, I told you the reason why I wanted to wait. This is basically the same accusation that you said before, which I explained. This is just warming up stuff to make me look scummy.
On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote:
Bocki never had an original thought, he didn't start the attack on me and he didn't start the attack on therapist.
Now I'm scum because I didnt attack no one? If by "no one" you mean yourself, then you might be right. And I didnt attack therapist because he was my #2 scum read and I wanted to get you (my #1 scum read). Since its 3-2, I told lazin and nova (that are my town reads) that I will follow them if they make a better case against therapist... Do I really have to write all of this again? Whoever looks at those posts sees exactly my train of thought. This is again just warming up stuff that has been explained thoroughly by me or others.
On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote:
Bocki freaking scumslipped!
... warming up much?
Your whole post was a warming up of stuff that was explained before. Instead of doing what Lazin asked you/therapist to do (make a case against lazin or nova) you reposted stuff from before.
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I'm not sure who is the innocent among Lazin and Nova. I'm looking through both their filters, but I guess I'm just really awful at analysis because I can't tell one way or the other. Everyone seems ridiculously convinced of my guilt, so I'm not sure what I could even say at this point. You are all so convinced, but I can't wait to see which one of you is the total sap when I flip blue.
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Therapist insulting your voters isnt a good way to get people to flip off of you. I dont think that i made a mistake that made me a total sap T-T
And yeah lazin, the case was awful
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100% non mafia related post:
@Bocki, I like the way you use the phrase warming up. I've never heard that here in the USA. Do you mind if I ask if English is your first language, and if not where you learned it? It's a great expression.
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On April 11 2012 06:14 Nova_Terra wrote:Therapist insulting your voters isnt a good way to get people to flip off of you. I dont think that i made a mistake that made me a total sap T-T And yeah lazin, the case was awful
If you continue to vote for me out of spite, then it's an even bigger fail by you. From my end, it's funny to see people being played so hard. I would love to see the facepalm of whoever the remaining townie is when the game is over. None of you seem to entertain the thought that I'm telling the truth even in the slightest, so my investment is rapidly declining in this day.
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@Lazin: really? I thought its a common expression, even in english
Nope, my first language is german. I learned english in school, but since I am working on/with computers for roughly 20 years ( http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-ibm-xt.jpg this was my first computer) I learned english mostly due to computer related stuff. learning programming languages, playing the first text based games (you dont want to know how long it took me to figure out some of the words for Leisure Suit Larry 1... first the issue of identifying and THEN the issue of the word in another language ... at age 8 ) and so on. so my english is mainly from computer related stuff or music.
In german, "warming something up" is a common expression if someone brings up old/known stuff to (normally) get on the nerves of someone.
Imagine your mom telling you when you screwed something up: "This is exactly as the time when you did this 10 years ago". That is warming something up.
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I live in switzerland Lazin, but i am american. its actually really interesting, how my friends here who speak english as their second language use phrases i've never heard before, but totally make sense.
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Are you joking therapist? i am not voting out of spite, and i have gone over many ways this could turn out. why do you keep saying that i havent? its rude, i've put a lot more effort into this than just ignoring you.
Also, how is a fail on my part if things you did make people vote for you?
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And you are laughing at the town (which you claim to be) for being played by the mafia? geeze.
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I can tell you that Nova really is not voting for you out of spite. He's either innocent in which case he's right (since I know I'm green), or he's mafia, in which case he's making a good play and I will facepalm myself. I don't think getting frustrated is the right reaction, it is just a game
If you're town and you're still not sure on me / nova, just pick one and try to throw a case together. We've both stated that we're open to switching if there's a good case against the other. I agree it's hard to come up with a case against Nova, which is precisely why I think he's inno. If you don't try (and I'm not saying you haven't been, but it appears that way), then you have given up on the game, and again getting frustrated isn't the right reaction.
I can understand not wanting to draw attention to yourself as a blue, but you should try to appear as a townie, not a mafia lurker. Even if you weren't under pressure, I'd be somewhat suspicious of you claiming cop all of a sudden today.
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I really wish the town got one red to flip earlier in the game. I now appreciate the statement that the town doesn't get any info from lynching another townie lol
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Not getting involved and posting 0 content is not how to play blue (or town at all for the record) the same way playing like me isnt how to play blue either.
also i dont know if i'll ever be able to put is much effort into a mafia game ever again. i'm on vacation and i seem to be pouring almost all of my time into this. posts like the last ones by Therapist makes me feel like it was for nothing. doesnt make me a happy camper.
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Nova: until he flips red, and we realize he just couldn't make a case strong enough to flip the townie votes.
TOWN POWER! :D
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You guys aren't open to changing your votes. You're just being smug/scum at this point. Of course, the joke will be on me if the game ends and Bocki's town and you're BOTH scum. Then my badness at mafia will be complete.
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Haha :D
Yeah, still... its just so depressing to see people who have all but given up while im still trying hard
I would QQ so hard if you were mafia and playing me though. That would sting xD
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FFS we both stated we'd change our votes if we had cases against the other.
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The town who is high fiving with the scum about how town they all are has 20 minutes before he feels real dumb.
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Duuuude Like looking from a overall perspective, if lazin and i were a scumteam, that would be really damn cool hahah
but i can assure you it is not the case.
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... and both nova and I are here spamming f5 trying to see if any new info comes to light. I take that as evidence that he and I are town trying to determine if we made the right play
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Yeah, and it's totally up to me alone to provide that case. If I can't provide it, the remaining town doesn't want to hear it, right?
Please stop acting like I'm the only one who can put forth the effort to win here.
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Yeah, posts like that are hilarious. You'll soon see how hilarious they are (or you already know.)
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Seeong as you havent put forth the effort, dont act likes its our fault for expecting you to try
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Instead of hitting F5 and berating me every time I make a post, you guys could stop circle jerking over your impending "correct vote", you could be thinking about who the actual scum might be. Crazy!
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On April 11 2012 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:
Duuuude Like looking from a overall perspective, if lazin and i were a scumteam, that would be really damn cool hahah
but i can assure you it is not the case.
Scumtell! You can be assured it's not the case, because you're scum and you know I'm town!
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Yup. You're berating me, but you're doing the exact same thing as me. You're sitting dormant while defeat lies minutes away.
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F5ing here as well
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And can you stop wasting your time and ours being so downright negative and present something that can get us closer to winning?
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On April 11 2012 06:44 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:
Duuuude Like looking from a overall perspective, if lazin and i were a scumteam, that would be really damn cool hahah
but i can assure you it is not the case. Scumtell! You can be assured it's not the case, because you're scum and you know I'm town!
Oh shit! better vote myself asap!
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Here, let me go ahead and put together the most convincing case ever in just 15 minutes. No, sorry. There's nothing more to be said that would change your mind. We can lose and move on to the next game, that's fine.
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You guys make fun of me for laughing, but I bet the scum are beside themselves with how much they've fooled one other person.
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Therapist, who is berating who here?
You are the one who a towns(at least in me) suspicion lies. its not up to me to make a case for you to defend yourself with.
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On April 11 2012 06:46 Therapist. wrote:
Here, let me go ahead and put together the most convincing case ever in just 15 minutes. No, sorry. There's nothing more to be said that would change your mind. We can lose and move on to the next game, that's fine.
Dont say that you only had 15 minutes. You know how much time you had.
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Honestly, if the town loses, then today isn't the reason. Lots of townies lurked way too hard, not enough people (myself included) pressured for information (I think this is part of why gossemerr got lynched).
It's like an sc2 game: if you get a huge supply block at 6 minutes, you didn't lose the fight at 8 minutes because you slightly mismicroed. If the town loses, it's because we didn't fish out information well enough.
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I hope to god you're town, Nova, because if you are, you're gonna feel like the biggest idiot ever.
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Come on therapist, keep it civil.
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Loool youre hoping i think im an idiot, cool. thanks, i love you too.
Therapist mind( if he was actually town) Oh Shit guys looks like im on the chopping block.... I guess we lose, cya next game
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You would understand my frustration were you in my position.
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Yeah, continue to be a dick. That's fine. You're probably scum anyway laughing about how easy this last day win is for you.
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nah, we both said that we would switch with a good case. and that was a while ago.
and i blame myself for errors now.
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No actually that seems like exactly what you are trying to do. you call blue, and then when people still suspect you you arent even trying to save yourself.
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On April 11 2012 06:48 Therapist. wrote:
I hope to god you're town, Nova, because if you are, you're gonna feel like the biggest idiot ever.
Stop being rude to other players please.
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gg we lose. Done posting.
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Okay, now im just mad at Therapist.
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I also hoped to hear from BlueyD, I just wish the timing would've worked out that his work schedule could've meshed better with today's deadline.
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we will see in 3 minutes. Then the two surviving players (after blueyd kills someone at night) will just have to vote for him and its done. town wins, gg
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On April 11 2012 06:57 Bocki wrote:
we will see in 3 minutes. Then the two surviving players (after blueyd kills someone at night) will just have to vote for him and its done. town wins, gg
rofl
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And i gave up my 300th post to Therapist being mean too. come on.
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That post by itself should make you vote for Bocki.
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On April 11 2012 06:57 Bocki wrote:
we will see in 3 minutes. Then the two surviving players (after blueyd kills someone at night) will just have to vote for him and its done. town wins, gg
Unless one of me, you, or nova is making the dumbest WIFOMY risky play ever by bussing therapist XD
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I assure you that you are.
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i thought you werent posting more
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Final vote count:
BlueyD (0) Bocki, Lazincajun
Therapist. (3) Nova_Terra, Bocki, Lazincajun
Bocki (2) BlueyD, Therapist.
Night 3
![[image loading]](http://www.kevinott.net/storage/Mountain%20Goat%20Family%20on%20Cliff.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1279215255710)
After another unfortunate death in Gossamer last night, the five goats that were left knew they had to get either Loki or Fenrir tonight or all hope would be lost. They looked eachother in the eyes, but all they saw was darkness within them. The goats then decided to take the long walk to Mimir's well, to hopefully find truth. When they arrived, they looked for Mimir but they only found his beheaded body. The pack kept walking and reached a large cliff as night approached.
All the goats settling down knew they had to make a decision, and they had to make it before it got dark and Loki and Fenrir would be able to sneak out. After a lot of bickering between Bocki, BlueyD, and Therapist., the latter was finally accused of being the god of trickery. The goats slowly started walking towards him with pitchforks in their mouths, as Therapist. Slowly started backing off. He tried to jump off the cliff, but before Therapist. managed to jump, Nova_Terra impaled him with his pitchfork.
As the blood poured out of Therapist.'s dead body, Bocki also transformed back to his original wolflike shape and quickly ate BlueyD. Nova_Terra then transformed the bleak looking LazinCajun back to his original shape as God. "Thank You" were the last words from Loki as he snapped LazinCajun's neck. Today would mark the start of Ragnarok.
Therapist. (Bragi, son of Hálfdan the Old, Sane Cop) has been impaled by a pitchfork!
BlueyD (Njörðr, father of Freyr, Townie) has been eaten by Fenrir!
Lazincajun (Vili, brother of Odin) has been killed by Loki!
Bocki (Fenrir, hellhound, son of Loki, Mafia Goon) is victorious!
Nova_Terra (Loki, god of trickery, Mafia Roleblocker) is victorious!
Mafia Victory! Congratulations to Bocki and Nova_Terra on a flawless victory.
Obs quicktopic - http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/DM86CUATvvyp
Scum quicktopic - http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/uLnmFpCjghcX
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Don't be too mad at me. You're about to fully understand my frustration.
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The only way I will understand your frustration is if you're frustrated with yourself.
Very well played, Nova.
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Lazincajun played like a fool.
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QUESTION: Are we allowed to post our internal posting? There are some information for therapist and lazin in there.
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I love how you still blame me for this
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Thanks lazin. I actually feel a bit bad. please read the scum QT.
hosts can you please link QTs?
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Didn't see you put in the effort to figure out the truth. You're also the only one who didn't vote for scum.
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Bocki hosts will link them to qt. i would wish to read obs QT if possible too
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2012 07:03 LazinCajun wrote:
I love how you still blame me for this
Well, you were the only townie voting for the townie
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On April 11 2012 07:00 Nova_Terra wrote:
i thought you werent posting more
lol, this
![[image loading]](http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/October-18-2011-20-12-49-DoubleFacePalm.jpg)
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and can players request a behavioral ban on a differen player?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
P.S. Nova - your meta was consistent with you being scum this game. But I imagine you wouldn't play that differently as town, so wp
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On April 11 2012 07:04 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:03 LazinCajun wrote:
I love how you still blame me for this Well, you were the only townie voting for the townie
Therapist didn't give me a helluva lot to work with.
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hahahha lazin
i was actually mad at therapistthere at the end for making our victory seem bad.
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I'm sorry I pissed you off here at the end. Let's just get over it, shall we? I didn't have enough time to make a case and was incredibly frustrated. Plus, you were lying like HELL to our faces. You must understand in some small way.
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Thank you artanis
haha marvellosity i have no hope at playing townie. its gonna suck when i have to
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Therapist, that's his job. That's the game. No use getting pissed over it.
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Sure, i understand frustration as my first game as town i was raging my ass off. But you werent even trying... i feel that town could have done much better with just a little more added help.
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My final analysis of this game, although I will only include the last remaining players:
Lazin: You definitly were the best player thing round. Not only towny, but player. You were thrown off because it played out that therapist was lurky and blueyd was attacked by me a bunch of times, but you had good reads (except for nova ) and played a good game. The last day was really difficult to play as a town since there were so few informations on either me, blueyd and therapist. I congratulate you.
therapist: You did some good plays, but you didnt play your blue role very good. I dont know how I would have played it, but you could have at least tried to make a case against nova or lazin (of course, only nova would have made a difference) but failed to do so. Your reasoning and timing for claiming blue wasnt bad (as I said in the game) but pretty usual. It just played into our hands that blueyd was suspected by lazin and nova and i splitted our focus on you and blueyd. All in all, not bad, but too few postings for a blue.
blueyd: Sorry mate, you just had to take the place as my foe. After you accused me, I focused on you and since you didnt really defend yourself, I was able to keep you as a suspect open throughout the game. This way I only had to wait on which lazin and nova decided and could join them, because it was clear that it was either you or therapist.
nova: We worked good together You did a little too many fluff posting, just as I was a little too lurky in the beginning. But I think our plan worked out well.
Thanks for the Mafia game! Thanks for the hosting to Artanis and ghost!
This was fun
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Holy shit, I can't believe how early nova had a blue read on therapist
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2012 07:05 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:04 marvellosity wrote:On April 11 2012 07:03 LazinCajun wrote:
I love how you still blame me for this Well, you were the only townie voting for the townie Therapist didn't give me a helluva lot to work with.
He claimed blue cop, proceeded to say that two out of the three in his list were scum, and then voted for scum. He was right on all counts. His post about the 2/3 could at least have made you have pause for thought as you knew you were town.
The issue perhaps was that therapist was too vague in his long post.
Ultimately I'm not having a go or saying it was bad play, as I'm still a newbie myself. But a different result was easily possible.
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I'm not pissed at all at Nova. He did what he needed to do and fooled the hell out of you, Lazin. That's not on me. Could I have done more? Yes. Did I lose the game for us? No, that's Lazin's vote going in the wrong place. He was just too busy high fiving with well played scum to think much more than that.
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Yes, it was a lot of fun. Mods, thanks a ton!
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2012 07:10 LazinCajun wrote:
Holy shit, I can't believe how early nova had a blue read on therapist
Why not? therapist was playing like a blue. To a townie you can't tell if he's lurking as scum or as blue, but Nova knew he wasn't scum. Ez pz
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Nothing in your play said "townie" to me. Not one thing. =/
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On April 11 2012 07:10 LazinCajun wrote:
Holy shit, I can't believe how early nova had a blue read on therapist
you mean imallinson?
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Well, sorry for the end of game grief all. gg, well played, see you next time.
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Yeah, Thanks to the hosts for the game! cant play sithout you guys :D
also the goats were funny
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On April 11 2012 07:11 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:10 LazinCajun wrote:
Holy shit, I can't believe how early nova had a blue read on therapist Why not? therapist was playing like a blue. To a townie you can't tell if he's lurking as scum or as blue, but Nova knew he wasn't scum. Ez pz
I guess that makes sense. I'm pretty noob since this is my first game in mafia, RL, forum, or otherwise. IDK, I made a mistake on the last day, but it was hard with no mafia lynches, and Bocki and Nova playing very well. Especially nova.
You bastard.
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On April 11 2012 07:13 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:10 LazinCajun wrote:
Holy shit, I can't believe how early nova had a blue read on therapist you mean imallinson?
No, imallinson was a really freaking easy blue read. So paranoid.
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To be true, that was no read. Look at our scum thread..
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Which early blue read on therapist are you referencing then o.O
also i think Lazin was right actually.
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even as blue you try to post content in a non scummy manner. which therapist didnt.
EDIT(woohoo!) Even if i was town i think i would have lynched him
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And Bocki, i love my fluff posting hehe
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On April 11 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote:
Which early blue read on therapist are you referencing then o.O
also i think Lazin was right actually.
Sorry, I think I misread something in the scum QT
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You guys don't realize how close I was to switching my votes. If I got even an inkling of a scum read from Nova I was going to jump ship.
Argh.
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Yeah, i can remember 10 minutes before he claimed saying in scum QT Oh shit oh shit oh shit therapist is cop and were screwed
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Actuzlly i had a feeling that you were a lot closer to switching than i let on. so i tried to focus you down while bocki held off therapist and blueyd
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##Unvote: Therapist
##Vote: Bocki
oh am I too late?
XD
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I think Nova made a very risky decision with sticking with Bocki. If he jumped ship immediately onto Bocki then killed Therapist. at night I'm pretty sure he could convince BlueyD to lynch Lazin.
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I thought my posting style on day 3 was so obvious that I was the sane cop that I wouldn't even have to role claim. Far from the truth, I needed to do way more than I possibly imagined. I had no idea which of Nova and Lazin were scum (although my exchange with Nova at the end had me pretty convinced that he was scum. I think Bocki and Nova both posted very obviously at the end).
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Bwahah, say that your computer has really slow internet an you submitted it before deadline
Lazn, i would love to play with you again :D
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My final scumreads were right, but of course it was too late for me to convince anyone.
Good job scum, especially you Nova. Bocki, well, from your first big reply I had you in my top 2 scum.
Bocki should honestly have been an easy lynch on the last day. I still can't believe Lazin didn't see that.
I WAS defending myself. My posts were probably too long, however.
I'll probably switch to being less aggressive next game. As it stands, I manage to look like a tasty D3 lynch everytime.
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I'll be posting my thoughts on the game in a bit, I helped era out slightly, So I might just post some of what i sent him.
I need to catch up on what I missed while running aperture though.
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On April 11 2012 07:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think Nova made a very risky decision with sticking with Bocki. If he jumped ship immediately onto Bocki then killed Therapist. at night I'm pretty sure he could convince BlueyD to lynch Lazin.
I decided to leave the decision on that to him while i slept. then i woke up and lazin was on our side so i was okay with sticking to bocki.
I thought about that alot. decided it was worth taking that risk.
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wait hold on a second. Greymist, did youhappen to be part of a starcraft clan called cLv at any point?
cause i totally recognise your name.
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I think sticking together was the right way. If it would have been good for scum, I would even have jumped the shark and hardened novas role as town indirectly while dieing, but like nova said: Lazin followed me to blueyd, then I followed both to therapist. We only had to make sure that the blueyd/therapist connection stayed in his mind.
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blueyd, your posts were huge. I kept looking at them and deciding to only scsn through cause they made my brain overload haha. i think if you keep it a bit more concise there will be more success in your town play.
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Ok, I'm off to bed, good night, good fight
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Bye Bocki, congrats
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On April 11 2012 07:28 Nova_Terra wrote:
wait hold on a second. Greymist, did youhappen to be part of a starcraft clan called cLv at any point?
cause i totally recognise your name.
yep
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Your constant focus on blueyd/myself were one of the biggest reasons I was certain you were definitely scum. Probably why it was easy to convince Blueyd that you were scum too. After my believable claim, Bluey would side with me, but you could make the case to a total outsider from the situation, Lazin, that we were working together to throw you off. From my end, it looks way too aggressive from you, as it set BlueyD and myself on you unerringly. But it seemed to work out this time.
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On April 11 2012 07:30 Nova_Terra wrote:
blueyd, your posts were huge. I kept looking at them and deciding to only scsn through cause they made my brain overload haha. i think if you keep it a bit more concise there will be more success in your town play.
My guess is a lot of people did that. It also gives the opportunity to people to pick and choose what they reply to, and to sum up my posts as whatever they please - "not defending himself", "bad logic", whatever it isn't.
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whoa, im cLvFlame
AtRi's friend, if you remember him and dont me
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On April 11 2012 07:32 Nova_Terra wrote:whoa, im cLvFlame AtRi's friend, if you remember him and dont me
'
Yep yep, good to see ya
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Its been a while. crazy that we both end up here.
Great minds think alike? xD
If you dont mind sometime, i would love if during my last newbie game you could help me a bit. if im town at least. i have some serious troubles.
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On April 11 2012 07:24 Nova_Terra wrote:
Bwahah, say that your computer has really slow internet an you submitted it before deadline
Lazn, i would love to play with you again :D
LOL I'm sure you would after playing me so hard all game
It was fun.. I'm going to sulk for a while.
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Yeah, i dont just mean that because i played you. i thought and still think that you played really well and logically.
The overall mistake in this game IMO was: Dont just let someone get confirmed town status. At least pressure them.
But i cant really say anything cause i suck at town.
And lazin, my only game as town i got played terribly too. So it could be a redemption game haha
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Ok First off im just going to go through the thread day by day and see what I find, Luckily this is only 22ish pages.
Day1:
Nova_Terra should immediatly be the focus of everyone because of this:
On April 03 2012 06:19 Nova_Terra wrote:
Ello der BlueyD. <333333
hello everybody! I'm nova, and you may know me as hardcore rager, guy who tilts, scum that beat you last game, (teehee) but this time You will hopefully know me as what i am, Townie .
To start off, I would just like to direct everybody to the mafia guides on the forums. They will at least give you the basic ideas of what is happining or how people are playing. Also, if you have the time, i highly reccomend going through one of our last games to tell peoples play apart from this game (meta). It gives such a HUUUUUGE advantage as you can determine peoples behavior changes very easily from game to game. last game, town almost lynched me due to meta, and should have.
Also, here are 3 terms that werent immediately obvious to me when i first played:
EBWOP: Edit by way of post, as you cant edit you can double post to 'edit'
OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck, pretty much when someone gets defensive and votes based on the aggression coming towards thhem that is considered OMGUS (please correct me if im wrong)
FoS: Finger of suspicion. Used to note that you are suspicious of someone and to direct attention to them.
A Couple other things to note are:
Dont make the mistake i made in my first game and post cases based on connections to other people.it alienates people and seriously, who is going to vote with you when you say that if your suspect flips red they are probably red too?
Dont just go for the "obvious lynch" of a bad player who make like 763784 tells day 1. Last game, i was thanking the heavens (as mafia) that everyone wanted to vote for the two players who were making the most mistakes. as mafia, i was scared to make scumtells and repeatedly went through my posts before i made them to be as safe as possible, and i had my team to remind me of how to act. townies are alone. we have to think for ourselves, and we post more on impulse.
Same goes for lurker lynches. Although i agree with a possible lynch of someone who is getting by unsuspected with a minimal amount of posts, a mafia is much more likely to step up to defend themselves when their name is on the chopping block than a bored townie. I agree with voting to pressure lurkers however, as i was scared to hell whenever i saw a single vote on me.
Now to get content rolling, I would like everyone to post regarding their stances on how we will be lynching day 1. I am for an information lynch over a lurker or "bad" lynch.
So far BlueyD is the most scummy because of how defensively he reacts to people, for instance his comment which implies that era does not know about game concepts. and in response to BlueyD suspecting me, who is more likely to be mafia, mafia last game or town last game. So Bluey is my current suspicion haha xD jk ^^
And hey, even though last game i apparently destroyed time, i still think some sort of soft deadline would be beneficial to getting a collective vote. Maybe 8 hours?
This is the post he "spent 30 minutes on". Its like 15 minutes into the day. Also notice how he directs everyone to the guides, which is good in a newbie game, but then procedes to post stuff found in the guides. He then fills everything with filler and then talks about his suspicion, who really isnt, but kinda is.
This post should send up a red flag. Not a big red flag, but still. All of this could be summed up into like 3 sentences, and it would have been easier to read too.
He then continues to pressure others to post content, but doesnt contribute himself.
I'm just after the first vote count now and I actually have no idea why lyter is being voted for. If this ever happens in a game, you should be concerned. Look who jumped on the wagon with no reasons. Then take that list of people and go back and see if they contributed anything ever. If not you might have found scum.
Annnd now lyter dies and flips town.
Take a look at the people still on lyter at the end of the day. HALF of them are the scum team. The people who switch during a last minute vote switch are people who are unsure of themselves. Scum are very sure of themselves, they know the person they are lynching will flip town. What they don't want is to be seen as flip floppy. Town Should have taken a carefull look at the people who stayed on Lyter, and did not provide good reasons for doing so.
do do do, things discussed during the night, and finally the jailer dies.
One thing I noticed town doing was reading a lot into Night kills. Dont do this. Please. Dont. Go look up WIFOM. Town gains almost zero information by trying to discover why someone was killed. It may be because he was pressuring the scum, it may be because mafia thought by killing him they would make town think he was pressuring scum, it might just be because they rolled the dice and it landed on 5. who knows?
On April 07 2012 00:41 Bocki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 13:57 LazinCajun wrote:
...I propose that we drop it the implications of him dying and move on to more substantial matters...
...Unless somebody has some amazing read to gain from the mafia hitting imallinson (I doubt it), it doesn't make any sense to me to dwell on these issues, and I think any more discussion of such triviality indicates a lack of desire to move forward, ergo indicates scuminess. A blue gets whacked and you do not want to see why? Or talk about why? And that after he attacked you and died instantly after this? That sounds a bit weird to me. I dont know what to think of it now, really, but ... its weird...
We have another red flag here. He is trying to get people to talk about something that will only serve to waste time.
In this day Nova does something good, which is at least mention Bocki. If you have not, please go read my post game thoughts from Newbie Mini Mafia . In them I explain why scum need to feel comfortable talking to each other in the thread.
The lynch against Era was not completely terrible; i mean it was still bad because it was a mislynch, but there are things that era could have done better. his main problem on day 2 was his focus on the nightkills (WIFOM is never usefull to town, except in rare roleclaim cases) which lead to him not contributing much to scum hunting.
At this point Nova and Bocki both pushed the Era lynch rather hard. Thats now 2 misslynches they were on. they should be looked at carefully.
Day3
Here, we have 2 people who have both pushed 2 misslynches start defending each other. This should be concerning.
And GG
Town's problem this game was its unfocused approach. They focused a lot on discussing things that did not matter, and spent no time analyzing motivations behind players. There were a few long, full cases posted against bocki on day 3, and yet none against therapist, so why was he lynched?
The best way to avoid this scenario for therapist is to set a trend of activity day 1 and 2. the major case against you was that you slid by with inactivity. Because you were blue it is tempting to do this, but you will ultimatly either end up in this situation, or being shot by the mafia. The best you can do is pretend as though you have no powers at all, and play as though you have nothing to lose.
I'm going to round this out with the advice I sent out to era.
Its important to keep in mind the basic object of the game. You are part of the uninformed majority trying to discover the informed minority. You are not trying to lynch idiots, you are not trying to lynch inactive people or lurkers, and you are not trying to lynch trolls.
One thing to remember is that Mafia can appear to be anyone they set their minds to. They can be the town leader, someone defending you, someone tunneling you, someone agressive ect. So if mafia can appear to have any traits they want, how do we distinguish townies from scum?
The Trick is in their agenda. Mafia intrinsically have a different agenda from the town. Their goal is to spread misinformation, chaos, distrust, and stay alive. While townies can certainly do all these things as well, that is not their goal. When reading over posts (and you should look all of them over carefully) first read the post as if the player who made it is confirmed town. ask yourself if this post makes sense in the frame of accomplishing town objectives. Next read it as though you know for a fact that player is scum. Ask yourself again if the post furthers scum objectives. Doing this will give you a terrific idea of what agenda the player is trying to push.
that should be a great start for you, some other tips:
Don't put much stock in "scumslips". while scum to make them, often they are townies who just say what they want.
You're town. Your goal is not to stay alive, your goal is to win. Don't care about how your posts might make you look, just post the analysis and get the information out there. Obviously you need to make yourself credible, so dont be a jerk, but people calling you scum should not concern you. You are town.
Finally for now my greatest advice. NOOOOOOOOOONEEEE is ever confirmed anything. You are only confirmed "town" "DT" "Scum" "medic" when you die and flip. Not before. People will say well this guy is almost confirmed town. that is wrong. if someone is defending you from a lynch, you need to look at that person heavily, because ask yourself, how does he know to defend me? it might be because he is scum, and is trying to become "confirmed" by defending you, having you flip town, and then saying "see guys? told you that was dumb"
Again, I highly suggest reading Newbie Mini Mafia, It is a game similar to this in that the scum score a flawless victory. Also it has a lot of post game analysis that many of you should find helpful.
If you have any questions about specifics please let me know.
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Lurker post
I read the last day or so of this... and there was no doubt in my mind that Therapist was town. His roleclaim was badly done, but his posting was extremely townie. Bocki's case was hanging together by threads, which you really should have pricked through, but Nova_Terra's posts were good (up until the last hour or so, when I had him pegged as the second scum: lazincajun seemed genuinely desperate, whereas Nova's posts were mainly trying to distract town from doing any actual scumhunting).
For a future game, Therapist: leave subtle clues about who you're checking at night by breadcrumbing your role and your actions (and findings). That allows you to refer to the earlier posts as extra evidence. It also means that if you get killed, a clever townie might discover your breadcrumbs and piece together your findings. Be careful with this kind of thing, because if you do it too obviously, mafia might find the breadcrumbs too soon and get an easy blue kill.
I didn't like lazin's insistance that he wasn't sure of his lynch, but wanted bluey and/or therapist to make a case on Nova or him. If you're not sure, why not pull up everybody's filter and try to figure it out yourself? It's lylo, why not make sure for yourself rather than waiting for other people's analysis?
PS. I am also new to this game, but advice is free right? Feel free to take what you want
EDIT: ninja'd by an actual veteran
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On April 11 2012 07:23 Therapist. wrote:
I thought my posting style on day 3 was so obvious that I was the sane cop that I wouldn't even have to role claim. Far from the truth, I needed to do way more than I possibly imagined. I had no idea which of Nova and Lazin were scum (although my exchange with Nova at the end had me pretty convinced that he was scum. I think Bocki and Nova both posted very obviously at the end).
Heh, hadn't read this before my post. I, for one, agree with you.
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Thank you guys for analysis
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On April 11 2012 08:09 Acrofales wrote:Lurker postI read the last day or so of this... and there was no doubt in my mind that Therapist was town. His roleclaim was badly done, but his posting was extremely townie. Bocki's case was hanging together by threads, which you really should have pricked through, but Nova_Terra's posts were good (up until the last hour or so, when I had him pegged as the second scum: lazincajun seemed genuinely desperate, whereas Nova's posts were mainly trying to distract town from doing any actual scumhunting). For a future game, Therapist: leave subtle clues about who you're checking at night by breadcrumbing your role and your actions (and findings). That allows you to refer to the earlier posts as extra evidence. It also means that if you get killed, a clever townie might discover your breadcrumbs and piece together your findings. Be careful with this kind of thing, because if you do it too obviously, mafia might find the breadcrumbs too soon and get an easy blue kill. I didn't like lazin's insistance that he wasn't sure of his lynch, but wanted bluey and/or therapist to make a case on Nova or him. If you're not sure, why not pull up everybody's filter and try to figure it out yourself? It's lylo, why not make sure for yourself rather than waiting for other people's analysis? PS. I am also new to this game, but advice is free right? Feel free to take what you want EDIT: ninja'd by an actual veteran
What about Therapist's post was townie to you? I got the total opposite read.
I tried damn hard to make a case vs. nova, and couldn't, that's why I was asking the rest of the town to point out something I might have missed. They apparently couldn't either. I think I just don't know how to make a scum read.
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I wasn't sure about Therapist, but his DT claim had the best kind of breadcrumb: a massive overnight opinion switch. Also, when was the last time anyone fake-claimed in a TL newbie game?
Nova's play reminds me of Toadesstern - he posts a lot of filler even as town. I read him right all three games so far but I'm not absolutely sure how I'm telling the difference. Maybe he looks more frustrated and despairing as town. Well played anyway.
Bocki's output on day 3 made his day 1 look incredibly scummy. No way does a vanilla town player with that posting ability actively lurk through day 1.
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On April 11 2012 07:49 Nova_Terra wrote:
Yeah, i dont just mean that because i played you. i thought and still think that you played really well and logically.
The overall mistake in this game IMO was: Dont just let someone get confirmed town status. At least pressure them.
But i cant really say anything cause i suck at town.
And lazin, my only game as town i got played terribly too. So it could be a redemption game haha
Wat who played you?
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Lol mementoss shut up
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On April 11 2012 10:18 jaj22 wrote:I wasn't sure about Therapist, but his DT claim had the best kind of breadcrumb: a massive overnight opinion switch. Also, when was the last time anyone fake-claimed in a TL newbie game? Nova's play reminds me of Toadesstern - he posts a lot of filler even as town. I read him right all three games so far but I'm not absolutely sure how I'm telling the difference. Maybe he looks more frustrated and despairing as town. Well played anyway. Bocki's output on day 3 made his day 1 look incredibly scummy. No way does a vanilla town player with that posting ability actively lurk through day 1.
fake-claiming in his situation would have been the only thing a maf could have done btw. the opinions were mainly set (all 4 votes on him). If I would have been in that situation, I would have called blue as well. Just to hope that I can somehow reason with older posts. I only need them to get off my back because I will never have to really prove it. When they change their vote to anyone else but the other maf, they are dead.
Thanks for the flowers in paragraph 3 . But I dont really think that my D3 makes my D1 look scummy. Everyone lurked on D1, I explained reasonably why I chose not to write so much and I proposed a solution to the "no-information-lynch-problem" on D1.
From the outside, I think I would have thought of myself as scummy after gosses nightly kill. I would have put myself under more pressure, but mainly, only blueyd said something about me. And I was able to make that sound like a retort to my attack on him (as I said "This is mainly because we've been at each other the whole game").
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On April 11 2012 09:01 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 08:09 Acrofales wrote:Lurker postI read the last day or so of this... and there was no doubt in my mind that Therapist was town. His roleclaim was badly done, but his posting was extremely townie. Bocki's case was hanging together by threads, which you really should have pricked through, but Nova_Terra's posts were good (up until the last hour or so, when I had him pegged as the second scum: lazincajun seemed genuinely desperate, whereas Nova's posts were mainly trying to distract town from doing any actual scumhunting). For a future game, Therapist: leave subtle clues about who you're checking at night by breadcrumbing your role and your actions (and findings). That allows you to refer to the earlier posts as extra evidence. It also means that if you get killed, a clever townie might discover your breadcrumbs and piece together your findings. Be careful with this kind of thing, because if you do it too obviously, mafia might find the breadcrumbs too soon and get an easy blue kill. I didn't like lazin's insistance that he wasn't sure of his lynch, but wanted bluey and/or therapist to make a case on Nova or him. If you're not sure, why not pull up everybody's filter and try to figure it out yourself? It's lylo, why not make sure for yourself rather than waiting for other people's analysis? PS. I am also new to this game, but advice is free right? Feel free to take what you want EDIT: ninja'd by an actual veteran What about Therapist's post was townie to you? I got the total opposite read. I tried damn hard to make a case vs. nova, and couldn't, that's why I was asking the rest of the town to point out something I might have missed. They apparently couldn't either. I think I just don't know how to make a scum read.
Yeah, I didn't know which one of you two was scum until the very last hour. However, you only needed to find 1 scum, not two for this night kill! Here is why I thought Therapist was town:
1. A couple of people pointed out that he was hard on BlueyD's case and switched 180º after the night. That makes his blue claim at least somewhat credible: Bocki insisted that it was a mafia trying to distance himself from his scumbuddy. It's possible, but very risky.
That is not the main reason, though, just the first inkling of Therapist's blueclaim being exactly what it was: a sign of a desperate townie trying to prevent a mislynch. I have to admit that I read the night posts without bothering to analyze then came in during the day when you were at lylo and had to backtrack to where Therapist claimed, so I actually read his claim after his later posts. It was actually BlueyD that clued me in with this post:
+ Show Spoiler [BlueyD's incredibly townie post] +On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote:Show nested quote +Lazin said:
Red BlueyD, red Therapist option -- I point out a potential connection between you two based on day 1 votes. Day 2 you split your votes to hide mafia ties, and you're not really in any danger of dying since after Gossemer's vote (1.5 hours before the deadline, plenty of time for therapist to switch votes and save you) puts Era into the noose. If we're both red and we did this, then that means the plan included either a) bussing me while other lynch targets were available (era) in a game with only 2 reds, or b) therapist switching his vote to last-minute save me, which would have aroused instant suspicion and provided a much clearer connection case than both of us voting together from the start. I repeat: Option B, which is what you and Bocki both think is true, would be extremely stupid play. In a situation where therapist and I are the reds, this option leads straight to our consecutive lynches. It just can’t be true. Show nested quote +Lazin said:
1) Bocki never said now is the best time for a blue to claim (???). Quote a post if I missed something please. Show nested quote +Bocki said:
(1) This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time. I interpret this to mean “we generally want blues to stay hidden most of the time, so it’s understandable that if Therapist’s claim is true, it only comes up now that he’s on the block: before was a bad time to claim, and after would be too late, therefore now is the best moment”. So, yeah, Bocki dismisses the possibility as “too convenient”, then admits it is consistent with good blue play in the next sentence. Scummy, scummy, scummy. You missed the goal of points 2 and 3 here: they are meant to attack Bocki, not to defend Therapist. I’m entirely aware that these do not make Therapist look more town-aligned, and that both explanations (red and blue) are an adequate explanation for these parts of his behavior. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make in that part of my post: Bocki never even considers the blue Therapist possibility. He just says “nah, can’t be”, and offers no explanation except speculations which start with what he has to prove: He assumes from the start that Therapist and I are red. This is tunnel vision. ---------- Lazin, that little message to Nova and you was mostly meant to not just rely on what the other is saying – you’ve both looked town-aligned to each other (and to me) for a while and openly said so, but neither of you is actually confirmed. I feel you’re taking us away from the immediate issue, which is “which of Therapist and Bocki is scum?” You’re asking me to find all the mafia right now when all we need for today is one. I don’t have a case against either of you right now and I have a busy day today (will be back home too late for the lynch; have access to a computer at my lab but will probably not be playing mafia much), so I don’t think I’ll have time to make the case you want me to do now. ---------- Here’s what it comes down to for me now: - My read on Therapist is 90% blue. - My read on Bocki is 90% red. - This leaves one of Nova and Lazin as scum and one as townie. Do I have a case on either? No, and in all likelihood I won’t today, but all we need right now is one red.
This post is right on the mark and was one of the first posts I read when I dropped into the thread (and was the one that got me interested in the puzzle). It uses good logic, goes straight to the point and is completely honest. This may still be a mafia playing a very clever trap, but it made me look at Bocki's case against Therapist:
+ Show Spoiler [Bocki's bad case, with analysis…] +On April 10 2012 05:56 Bocki wrote:
At lot happened, these are my thoughts:
Therapist is on of the guys that didnt bring much content. As lazin said, he didnt respond to the "post more" postings from various others. Now he's under the gun and suddenly claims blue.
Not only does he claim blue, but he said he investigated BlueyD and gosse. Gosse is dead, so it wont do much to talk about that. But the "BlueyD is a towny" investigation is the scummiest part.
Lets see what we thought:
Bocki: Therapist and BlueyD scum
Lazin: Therapist and Bocki/BlueyD scum
Nova: Therapist and Bocki/BlueyD scum
BlueyD: Therapist and Bocki scum
Therapist: Nova, Lazin, Bocki scum
BlueyD and me think of each other as scum, I think mainly because we have been over each other the entire game. This is not a case. This is two people tunneling on each other and is usually not much use. Emphasizing that BlueyD is scum because you have said so all game is not convincing me, it is just trying to hide the lack of evidence in this post. Therapist comes up, says he's blue and makes BlueyD inno. This is my prediction on what scum (therapist/blueyd) thought this will go down this is after I switched to therapist, so 3 votes for therapist, 1 for me) Therapist told BlueyD to vote for him, to complete the bandwagon Therapist brings out the "blue"-hammer, makes BlueyD inno and calls Bock/lazin/nova scum. Therapist hopes that one of us 3 switches votes to whoever but BlueyD (hey, he's inno! and therapist is blue!) BlueyD switches to that person Therapist votes that person. That would make 3 votes and the lynch. This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time. But calling investigating blueyd before... too convenient. He probably chose these 2 persons because he voted on the days before the night he claims to have investigated. He even brought up the idea of a tactical vote, just to call it "poor play" At this point I still haven't read Therapist's roleclaim, so I still need more info, but this entire bit is all extremely WIFOM. He dismisses Therapist's blueclaim out of hand as "too convenient" and gives a rather elaborate explanation of what has happened. Either Bocki pricked through some very clever scumplay, or he himself is scum trying to cast suspicion on two townies. Ockham's razor and my own experience as playing mafia indicate the latter is more likely. Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 01:47 Therapist. wrote:
I sure hope it's not scenario 3 as I am also voting for BlueyD. Seems like it'd be poor play to vote for your teammate early unless it's late in the game the person being voted for has been established as 100% scum. Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 11:04 Therapist. wrote:
I don't believe BlueyD to be mafia. I strongly disagree with bandwagoning onto him immediately. Instead, I would question the motives behind Bocki and LazinCajun INSTANTLY throwing down votes on BlueyD. I clearly stated my motives, Lazin as well. So I dont know what you want to question about them. Maybe its just to try to produce confusion (hence the CAPITALIZATION). I'll post more if I notice something else.
So, I now have BlueyD making a good case on Bocki, and scrolling up I have Bocki posting a lot of WIFOM. I now page back to Therapist's post and see his first post before his blueclaim:
+ Show Spoiler [Therapist's townie analysis] +On April 10 2012 03:58 Therapist. wrote:
Let me preface this post by stating that we are in Lynch or Lose. People who are throwing their votes in without a second thought with no convincing necessary are misinformed. This is the point where we absolutely must try as hard as possible to get an accurate mafia read. Instantly jumping on a bandwagon because someone made a case you think to be convincing is misinformed. Instead, let me recommend that we meet a case that someone proposes and try to either make it stronger or debunk it. None of this "Glad we agree, vote this person!" stuff.
Now let's think about this for just a moment. It's LYLO for the town. All the votes go on me. Everyone agrees without a second thought. Whoever is in the mafia feels no need to defend me, because if the lynch on me goes through, the game is over and mafia wins.
This is either a mafia staying extremely cool under pressure, or a townie pointing out the obvious.
BlueyD, shame on you for immediately dropping your strong case against Bocki and going for me. Bluey is one of my highest town reads for the moment, so I urge him especially to take a second look and re-analyze the situation.
Anybody going back over the older posts should have been surprised by this: the day before he voted BlueyD and the night flipped him 180 degrees, WITHOUT explanation. This is not a mafia move, they always try to come up with plausible reasons for flipflopping, in order to seem less suspect. The question is still WHY does he flipflop, but it's definitely something that should set people's alarmbells off.
From my point of view, 2 of these 3 are definitely mafia. 100% no doubt in my mind it is 2 out these three: Bocki, LazinCajun, and NovaTerra. Operating from this perspective, we see that Bocki doesn't take much to be convinced to change his vote. He votes for BlueyD from the start, which is one of my strongest town reads. Then, with no additional information offerred or even thinking of a possibility that I'm not scum, Bocki changes his vote to me as soon as someone makes a case against me. I believe this to be in expectation of the bandwagon that followed against me, planning to keep the momentum in his favor against me. Bocki is my strongest scum read for this game.
Yes... but I am still interested in why you suddenly flip on BlueyD. I agree that if this is in fact Bocki's behaviour (and I make a note to check that later), it is quite scummy, and adding to the WIFOMy case he makes later, would make him very scumspect.
Lazin seems the most intent on actually rooting out the mafia, and his focus on Bocki rather than on BlueyD or myself is a lot of proof of this from my standpoint of confidence in BlueyD and confidence in myself. I like that Lazin's eye is on Bocki through all of this and he agrees that voting on someone like me to root out a response is the right way to do it. I believe him to be the most willing to change his vote and be convinced that someone is mafia. Out of my 3 mafia reads, Lazin is the most likely to be town.
Ok, someone else out of these three has to be town and you pegged lazin. Reasons seem weak, but lets read on.
That brings us to NovaTerra. He posts a huge amount of fluff in the thread. He mostly spends his time calling out other peoples' arguments without offering any counter argument of his own. He just lets people know what's wrong with their argument. The two times he has posted a long analysis on somebody, they have both been town. Earlier in the thread, he made a long post against era, going post by post and trying to make each of his posts sound as mafia as possible. Now, he's come back with a long post against me saying that I am scum. I know myself to be town, so this second long post against a town member leads me to believe he already knows I'm town. Him immediately getting a bandwagon going instead of looking for some discussion also shows this to me. I believe NovaTerra to be the second scum over Lazin at this point.
This could just as well be mafia making Nova look bad, so not much here. Will have to go through Nova's filter to decide on this (and was way too lazy to do this). So nothing much on Lazin or Nova from this analysis, but a pointer to Bocki.
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Anyway, as to NovaTerra's argument... he starts off focused on the inactivity. He doesn't even entertain the possibility that there is a reason for laying low besides being mafia. He jumps right on the inactivity as a certain mafia read and in fact dedicates half his long post to talking about my inactivity. You could've justified voting me based on inactivity earlier in the game as you could say that I "wasn't adding much to the game." But at this point, it's easy to call out a lurker as mafia and get them lynched based on the limited information that has been brought out on your target.
He calls me out a lot in this post as well for supposed contradictions. I change my mind about BlueyD and all of a sudden that's a major contradiction and I'm scum? No, I changed my mind about BlueyD and choose to focus my investigation elsewhere. Changing one's mind doesn't make one scum, it makes one intelligent. You have to look at the game as it develops and see what's really going on. And try to look past peoples' posts and speculate reasons for them playing as they do. You all scream MAFIA, but that's not the only reason someone would want to sit back.
Still no reason for the switch on BlueyD, though. Note to look at earlier posts by Therapist, but first I want to find his blueclaim.
So now I have a good post by Therapist, but the second half was a bit wishywashy and I still have some questions. Because Bocki and BlueyD already mentioned the blueclaim I know why Therapist switched BlueyD from red to green overnight, but this post didn't give a reason and I can imagine town being suspect of such a switch. Remarkably, only BlueyD made this connection.
Then came his blue claim, which really was nothing special, except for clarifying his switch to BlueyD, making all the pieces fall together:
Either Therapist is scum and his roleclaim is false. In this case, Bocki is probably town with a good read. Or Therapist is town, in which case BlueyD is town, and Bocki is scum. Given that Therapist wasn't giving many reads and I still had the outstanding note on Bocki, I had another look at him and found the post Therapist was referring to:
On April 10 2012 02:18 Bocki wrote:
Okay, like I said lazin, we have to work together to get the mafia.
So I will change my vote from my suspect #1 to suspect #2 to get a maf.
##Unvote: BlueyD
##Vote: Therapist
This is a typical sheep, with no effort to justify the vote except "work together", which is weak. Together with the post I read before this makes him scum.
This is made stronger by the lack of a counterclaim. If Therapist truly was scum falsely claiming blue at lylo, then the real blue would probably be up in arms. Lazin claimed VT, leaving Bocki, Nova and BlueyD. Bocki made it quite clear he was not blue in his reaction to the roleclaim, leaving Nova or BlueyD. Neither of these were giving off blue vibes or responding to the "false" blue claim in the way a real blue would. This was just the last bit of evidence I needed to make Bocki the best lynch target.
The last hour added Nova as his scumbuddy, but this was not even necessary to see: you only had to lynch a single mafia. Nova would then be in a very tough spot:
Either he kills Therapist, leaving a confirmed townie and has to talk that townie into lynching lazin.
Or he kills BlueyD who flips green. He then spins some wifom about Therapist being the last mafia and shooting BlueyD to "confirm" his fake blueclaim. However, I doubt this would've worked, especially as Therapist's night DT check would leave him with no doubt and plenty of time to make a rock solid case against Nova.
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Acrofales:
"and gives a rather elaborate explanation of what has happened"
This is only half of what had happened and half of what will happen. And It just fell right that way.
But to be true, it was easy to foresee the things that are going to happen. Therapist was under the gun so he definitly will vote someone else. BlueyD was suspicious of me before, so therapist could be pretty sure that BlueyD will switch with him to me. The only person this whole post was adressed to, was lazin. I wanted to make him think that (since it happened like I said) I can not be scum, because the only way that would work is that if Nova was scum as well. And since he was fairly sure that nova was green, that gamble was worth the risk.
My/our idea as scum was pretty easy: Since Nova had been labeled "green" by lazin and someone else (dunno anymore), we wanted to play this out. We both attacked someone else (me blueyd, him therapist) to see which one the last towny will fall for. It was unlucky for me that he chose therapist, since it would have made me a little better looking if I didnt have to switch votes, but in the end, I think it was the best way. Because if Nova had to change his vote, this would make therapist or blueyd more keen to make a case against him (e.g."why the change now?").
My last postings before the last hour were all directed at lazin (see communication theory sender-reciever) although I talked to or about others. It was all to convince lazin to stay with nova and me. When D3 began, I voted for blueyd and he instantly followed, I knew that we'd won. The rest was just trench-fights. He had made his mind up (although he said otherwise, I think he was fairly sure that therapist and blueyd were scum) and so I knew we won.
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Bocki, I understand your reasoning and your post. It did exactly what you wanted it to do, so nothing wrong there!
I was just responding to Lazin's question about how I got a town read on Therapist. As I mentioned in my post, I came into this thread in the last night and didn't follow it from the start. I have none of the history you guys have and none of the tension of slowly slipping into lylo. I then hopped in during the day and read the posts in a non-chronological order, which also makes stuff quite different.
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On April 11 2012 23:49 Bocki wrote:
My last postings before the last hour were all directed at lazin (see communication theory sender-reciever) although I talked to or about others. It was all to convince lazin to stay with nova and me. When D3 began, I voted for blueyd and he instantly followed, I knew that we'd won. The rest was just trench-fights. He had made his mind up (although he said otherwise, I think he was fairly sure that therapist and blueyd were scum) and so I knew we won.
Then you really misread ME. I was honest in my reasons for voting for BlueyD -- it was just to get votes onto somebody. Plus I wasn't sure where BlueyD stood, so I wanted to pressure him. Immediately after we voted on him, he made a good, long analysis post.
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Acrofales's analysis is dead on and I wish he had been in the game instead, except for one thing:
It was possible to have a setup with only 1 blue (33% chance), so if Therapist is red then the lack of a counterclaim doesn't mean there's a blue who isn't speaking up. There could just be no other blue.
Next time I see people flagging each other as confirmed townies I'm gonna ask questions... This is what led to that situation where Lazin wouldn't lynch a pretty obvious red because that meant his 'green' buddy wasn't green after all.
If there's one thing Bocki did well, it's distracting me from a lot of what was happening.
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if you knew nova was red why did n't you make a case
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It was obvious from your perspective because you knew that you were town.. it was not obvious at ALL to me.
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On April 12 2012 02:32 BlueyD wrote:
Acrofales's analysis is dead on and I wish he had been in the game instead, except for one thing:
It was possible to have a setup with only 1 blue (33% chance), so if Therapist is red then the lack of a counterclaim doesn't mean there's a blue who isn't speaking up. There could just be no other blue.
Next time I see people flagging each other as confirmed townies I'm gonna ask questions... This is what led to that situation where Lazin wouldn't lynch a pretty obvious red because that meant his 'green' buddy wasn't green after all.
If there's one thing Bocki did well, it's distracting me from a lot of what was happening.
Ah, ok. I didn't check the OP too carefully. Thought 2 blue roles was confirmed. Ignore the last part then, sorry.
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Lazin: It's okay, we all make some horrible reads. I was so defensive by the end of that game that when I saw Therapist suddenly defending me, I didn't think "Blue!", I thought "Wow, best framing ever, I'm so screwed." :-D
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Haha! Next time I play, I'm just going to tunnel vote Nova (I kid)
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EPT
