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On November 25 2012 04:02 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:59 goodkarma wrote:On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote:
Marv, in response to your case against me:
-snip-
@Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once. Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a list go to waste... "Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a perfect opportunity to paint a target on you if you are close".
If town, Kita, as a major candidate for today's lynching, should be doing everything in his power to establish his innocence. Such a list would help us understand his underlying thought process, and would be something for us to work off of should he (as town) be mislynched.
How, as town, could he have CaveJohnson listed as a top lynch prospect for today? It's already been asked before, but seeing the other people he has at the top of his suspect list could help provide further insight. Especially since he has yet to tell us who he even thinks is worth his vote today.
And by the way, as a special note: There's a very good reason I've been ignoring you. You have yet to provide anything useful. Your question doesn't provide anything of insight. Do you think Kita is innocent then, and I'm scum trying to get him mislynched? If so, why? I don't care to see any more giant images with everyone's names on it and squiggly lines. If you want to contribute think of why, as scum, your top suspect is acting as he is.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:18 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:14 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 04:10 TheChronicler wrote:On November 25 2012 04:07 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay let me expand on that. I think I am one of the least influential people this game, out of the ones who are active.
If someone who IS influential does that though, and we don't get to hear his reads, it'll be a waste. Why do you feel this way? I've been paying attention to you and you were one of my strongest town reads until you just started helping Marv get off his failed case. "Failed case"? Do you have knowledge of my alignment? Lol. Failed case = alignment confirmed since when?
I must have misunderstood then. You're calling his case failed because you think its bad?
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On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot.
I got a bit sidetracked by Marv contesting Toad's play, but we're back on it. Toad can come up with no reason why he should run for party leader, so invents that "he will be active and get people to talk". I ask you, what does that have to do with being the party leader? About as much as Syllo being vegetarian, that's what.
So why does Toad want to be the party leader? Why? Because he's scum, of course.
Toad jumps into the thread with a big splash. Big talk about how he's going to scumhunt and a blurb on how Keirathi is scum for pretty much no reason at all. Now, lets look for the actual scumhunting:
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.
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Yeah, that was it. Lets use Toad's own words to emphasize this:
On November 21 2012 18:11 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 18:05 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 17:51 Toadesstern wrote:On November 21 2012 17:43 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 17:31 Toadesstern wrote:On November 21 2012 17:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 17:19 Toadesstern wrote:On November 21 2012 17:17 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote:
This Keirathi guy is mafia.
Not because of what he's saying but because of what he's failing to provide: Reasoning as to why he'd post what he did so far.
There's simply no reason to get out here and tell people he's planning to heavily focus on reading one guy. Best case scenario is him being pointless, worst case scenario is him trying to look good by providing "something" while actually being pointless. I'd say we've got someone who's trying to get a cheap backdoor exit early on.
Really? I'm scum because the people I would be most willing to vote as leader are the people I'm most familiar with? Don't be ridiculous. no you're scum for pointing that out. That's a important difference. No, you're being dumb. I've played lots of games with marv, iamperfection, S&B, risk.nuke, Z-BosoN, etc. I 100% trust my ability to read them better than I trust my ability to read you or syllo or sandro, whom I've never played with. When it comes down to time for me to vote, I'm going to think "Ok, sandro might be town, and he's getting a lot of votes. But, I'm much more sure that marv is town because I'm way more familiar with how he plays. It makes sense for me to vote him." Plain and simple. If that makes me scum, then tough titties. And yet you still haven't understood what I'm saying. I'm not saying your reasoning is stupid. If you feel that way fine although I'd hope that you have more than just one guy you feel comfortable to read... I mean you just mentioned a bunch of people, yet you only mentioned Marv earlier, didn't you? The issue is that you get in here telling us about that. You're right, I guess I don't understand. How is explaining how I plan to use my vote scummy? As far as mostly talking about reading marv (at one point, I did mention that there were other people I was comfortable reading if I don't feel like marv should be elected party leader), its because even though I feel like I have a grasp on how to read them, I don't think they'll be likely party leader candidates. No matter how strong of a town read I have on, say, iamperfection, its just pretty damn unlikely that he gets elected as party leader day 1 when there are vets "running" for the position that most of the game is willing to sheep. The thing is that it gives us (read: everyone who's not you) nothing at all. Fine we got it but why are you telling us that you're planning to favor Marv? Are we supposed to talk about it? I highly doubt it. Then why did you tell us preemptively about it? It really looks like a cheap excuse to justify yourself and I'm having troubles figuring why you'd want to do that? That's why I said at best it's pointless, at worst it's a guy trying to contribute something while actually being pointless. Your early explanation sounds like a set-up for the next couple of hours of this cycle. Ah, okay I guess I understand what you're saying now, at least. People were discussing which vet they were going to vote for, so I said I would likely be voting for marv. Then someone asked "Why marv, isn't he going to be super-hard to read day 1?" Then I started going into the long reasons why. I didn't just come out and say it all; it was an answer to specific questions. Unless you just wanted me to ignore them, then :o Also: You gave two possibilities for my explanations: either useless, or trying to contribute while being useless. Notice neither one of those possibilities are "he's scum". A guy trying to contribute something while being useless is a mafiatreat, that's why I mentioned you.
Scum are trying to look like they're doing something without actually doing something all the time.
I couldn't have voiced your behaviour this game better myself! Rather than scumhunting we get an unjustified vote on Sandroba, but not immediately. No. First you SAY we should lynch Sandroba without giving any reasons for it. It's only about 30 hours later, when the wagon has properly left the station that you come back to vote. Still without a justification. And that is the SUM TOTAL of what Toad has done that even remotely approaches something that is not setup speculation, talking about himself or meaningless banter.
Until this, about 80 hours after the opening post telling everybody he'll be open, chatty and scumhunting:
+ Show Spoiler [Toad's scumhunting conclusions] +On November 25 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:Okay done reading. Marv looks definitely better d2 so I'll ignore him for now. Sandroba looks the same way he did d2 so I still think he's the best way to go, not to mention that it's not that much time left. So much for the changes for d1 to d2. Drazerk looks like a madmen, like you guys said and well it's Drazerk.... Those people get shot and not lynched, it's as simple as that. A lynch on Drazerk is a (imo) random lynch as he could be doing that from both points of view and I don't have an idea what's going on in his head. Additionally I'd say that's probably not going to change that soon, which is why I'd say we let vigs deal with him, both to get rid of him and to make sure we don't have a Drazerk lynch that gives us 0 information while flipping like a dice role. The bad thing about lynching Drazerk is that anyone and their mom can hop on that lynch and say "herpa derp it's Drazerk, let's lynch him beacuse he's anti-town" and after the lynch we're in complete chaos because he either flipped red and everyone's pissed at those who thought he shouldn't be lynched because he's always like that or he's going to flip his chef / invoker thingie and people we don't get anything out of it because he was doing bullshit after all. TL; dr: Don't lynch that guy, shoot him. Completly ignore him in all other regards. Other than that I don't really like Chroniclers fashion of going after people. Can't help but feel that he thinks he needs to emphasize and point out very obvious things a lot. Could be me omgusing though, so I'd rather have some input from someone else about that. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:31 Dienosore wrote:On November 24 2012 23:01 Toadesstern wrote:
screw that
##vote Sandro I mapped you voting for sandro a long time ago. Why do you feel the need to vote him again, and in such a lackadaisical manner? [...] I didn't. On the start of d2 I said I'd like to vote for Sandro, maybe marv, went to the trainstation and was basicly afk for 24 hours. Now I'm back and gave a heads up on my current thoughts. I usually don't feel the need to copy&paste what I said earlier if nothing changed but I can do that from now on if it you makes you feel better :p I actually haven't understood your map yet, like Marv said I've been mainly mentioning Sand and him d1&d2 so far, maybe Keir a little d1 but I think I made it very clear that that was on purpose to get something going and I don't see arrows between Marv and me. But than again who knows what arrow belongs to what person 
Summary: null on Marv, troll on Drazerk and no clue what he thinks about Chronicler. Still nothing on why Sandro is scum, other than that he had a vague town meta read on him until Syllo shut that down.
The sum total of Toad's contributions to this thread have been zip diddly squat, but he is here and posting. Quite a lot in fact. This is NOT the Toad I know as either town or scum, but I can't see any town motivation for playing this way.
There are some other small things in his filter, but the promise that he will spend the game scumhunting and then the absolute lack of it, despite 5 pages of filter, is, once again in Toad's own words:
Scum are trying to look like they're doing something without actually doing something all the time.
Thank you for describing your own gameplan so clearly!
##unvote
##vote Toadesstern
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:15 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:12 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 04:01 marvellosity wrote:
The thing is, kita, we're like 4 hours from lynch and yet you've never actually pushed to get anyone lynched. I think I've made it quite clear that I would be in favor of a cave, sandroba, or nuke lynch. This becomes only sandroba if prom ever returns to reveal his night interactions. Hope I'm leaning scum, but I don't think there is enough to go by yet. there is a massive difference between being 'in favour' of a lynch and pushing a lynch candidate. You are 'in favour' of a sandroba lynch yet you say you are on the fence. You are 'in favour' of nuke yet you do not push him. You are 'in favour' of a Cave lynch yet you have not in any way demonstrated how his play makes him scum rather than just a troll.
Silly Brit spells favor wrong 
I am on the fence on sandroba. I don't see how you couldn't be considering how little content he has given us. However, due to my thoughts about the claimed kp and roleblock and his disinterest, yes I would be fine with seeing him lynched. I don't see how you can criticize me for my position, when you're in the exact same spot.
I've brought up my case against nuke, explained why his response is inadequate, and asked you to take a look at my case. I considered voting for him, but there is still the prom thing I'd like to hear back on.
Cave is getting a lot of push back, which shouldn't be happening when he goes incognito after gaining the spotlight.
I shot him last night. I received no damage in return. His story about trying to bring out the chef is nonsense. Furthermore, he was protected last night. He received only half damage from my shot. Either he has a defensive role, which doesn't fit in with his reflective damage claim or another player is protecting him, which seems ludicrous unless he was scum.
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sup guys Toad here. My internetprovider is down, I'm at a friends house, won't be back till tomorrow... Not a joke sry.
About voting me: Don't lynch me, I need someone who votes me though or I take a lot of dmg. Stupid posting / acting restriction being an attention whore
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:27 kitaman27 wrote:Silly Brit spells favor wrong I am on the fence on sandroba. I don't see how you couldn't be considering how little content he has given us. However, due to my thoughts about the claimed kp and roleblock and his disinterest, yes I would be fine with seeing him lynched. I don't see how you can criticize me for my position, when you're in the exact same spot. I've brought up my case against nuke, explained why his response is inadequate, and asked you to take a look at my case. I considered voting for him, but there is still the prom thing I'd like to hear back on. Cave is getting a lot of push back, which shouldn't be happening when he goes incognito after gaining the spotlight. I shot him last night. I received no damage in return. His story about trying to bring out the chef is nonsense. Furthermore, he was protected last night. He received only half damage from my shot. Either he has a defensive role, which doesn't fit in with his reflective damage claim or another player is protecting him, which seems ludicrous unless he was scum.
Interesting. I will have to cogitate because my first inclination is to believe this.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:32 marvellosity wrote:
Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple?
Not saying.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:32 marvellosity wrote:
Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple? Not saying.
I'll put it another way. If your only ability is a 1-shot 50HP shot, that would be a complete load of bullcrap :p
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On November 25 2012 04:35 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 04:32 marvellosity wrote:
Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple? Not saying. I'll put it another way. If your only ability is a 1-shot 50HP shot, that would be a complete load of bullcrap :p
Agreed.
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Marv, think about Toad. I am totes feeling a lynch on him. Gander through his filter please. He has been flying under the radar and has done absolutely fuckall this game.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
I wonder where syllo is in all this.
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No clue why I addressed that to just Marv. He's currently the most vocal, but EVERYBODY should look at the absolute lack of any useful posts in Toad's filter.
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Just skimmed his filter, there's quite a lack of scumhunting but he shares his thoughts and is rather useful other than that point, I'd say. You would lynch him over Sandro or Kita?
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On November 25 2012 04:41 Acrofales wrote:
No clue why I addressed that to just Marv. He's currently the most vocal, but EVERYBODY should look at the absolute lack of any useful posts in Toad's filter.
I agree that Toad has been useless, but think in this context: It's four hours until lynch deadline... I am curious: Are you really that dissatisfied with the other lynch choices that you feel now is the time to form a new wagon?
We should be consolidating between two candidates, not making forming new bandwagons. That makes it that much easier for mafia to manipulate the outcome for plurality lynch (Obvious, right? I state the obvious because people keep trying stunts like this...)
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EBWOP:
Let me reword that: Why exactly do you think pursuing a Sandroba or Kita lynch has no merit?
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EBWOP#2:
I should add further that indeed Toad could be scum, but I don't get why your read on him would stronger than a scum read on Sandroba.
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@Clarity: he voices his thoughts about himself. He speculates about setup. He is around, he is "contributing" and he is not sharing his reads at all. How is that being open?
@both: yes, I would absolutely lynch Toad over either Kita or Sandro. 4 hours is plenty of time.
My thoughts on both Kita and Sandroba are in my filter. I am not feeling the scum on either of them. I am feeling it in spades on Toad.
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But hasn't sandra been just as worthless? I'll have to re-read your filter but it doesn't quite add up to me why toad would so much more definitely be scum than sandroba on that basis.
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I'll read his filter a bit closer, one of his latest posts I like quite a bit, it's still not scumhunting though, I admit:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:Okay done reading. Marv looks definitely better d2 so I'll ignore him for now. Sandroba looks the same way he did d2 so I still think he's the best way to go, not to mention that it's not that much time left. So much for the changes for d1 to d2. Drazerk looks like a madmen, like you guys said and well it's Drazerk.... Those people get shot and not lynched, it's as simple as that. A lynch on Drazerk is a (imo) random lynch as he could be doing that from both points of view and I don't have an idea what's going on in his head. Additionally I'd say that's probably not going to change that soon, which is why I'd say we let vigs deal with him, both to get rid of him and to make sure we don't have a Drazerk lynch that gives us 0 information while flipping like a dice role. The bad thing about lynching Drazerk is that anyone and their mom can hop on that lynch and say "herpa derp it's Drazerk, let's lynch him beacuse he's anti-town" and after the lynch we're in complete chaos because he either flipped red and everyone's pissed at those who thought he shouldn't be lynched because he's always like that or he's going to flip his chef / invoker thingie and people we don't get anything out of it because he was doing bullshit after all. TL; dr: Don't lynch that guy, shoot him. Completly ignore him in all other regards. Other than that I don't really like Chroniclers fashion of going after people. Can't help but feel that he thinks he needs to emphasize and point out very obvious things a lot. Could be me omgusing though, so I'd rather have some input from someone else about that. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:31 Dienosore wrote:On November 24 2012 23:01 Toadesstern wrote:
screw that
##vote Sandro I mapped you voting for sandro a long time ago. Why do you feel the need to vote him again, and in such a lackadaisical manner? [...] I didn't. On the start of d2 I said I'd like to vote for Sandro, maybe marv, went to the trainstation and was basicly afk for 24 hours. Now I'm back and gave a heads up on my current thoughts. I usually don't feel the need to copy&paste what I said earlier if nothing changed but I can do that from now on if it you makes you feel better :p I actually haven't understood your map yet, like Marv said I've been mainly mentioning Sand and him d1&d2 so far, maybe Keir a little d1 but I think I made it very clear that that was on purpose to get something going and I don't see arrows between Marv and me. But than again who knows what arrow belongs to what person
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EPT
