[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1050

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Heen

Korea (South)2178 Posts

October 01 2010 17:58 GMT

#20981

QoP was just a possibility since our team often finds ourselves in bad fights and QoP might be a hero that can TP, and clean up if possible and reduce the casualties. I have a long history of playing her so I understand she's rather unstable.

We haven't used much rhasta since March and Mystyle left the team. They were like the white men who brought their NA dota stuff to us Koreans (native americans) and we were like 'rhasta? pffff...'

Kunkka we can run. Straightforward hero, trilane most of the time obv. We're working on finding a better lane distribution system, based on knowledge and logic, and as little luck as possible.

Beastmaster, I haven't played him recently but that's not the issue so much as fitting him into our lineup so we can fix the problems we're having.

Like it's been mentioned countless times in this thread, we really start breaking down when we have a 5 minute series of mishaps so we can

A: prevent that from happening
B: know how to play when we're down and stop further damage

We could always do both but I'm focusing on A. This is really basic, obvious stuff but it's treating DotA as tower defense game and playing with the mindset of keeping our towers alive as long as possible while taking theirs down. That essentially is DotA: you gank to weaken and reduce your enemies' number, you farm to push faster, gank faster, and avoid being ganked.

There was a time when I used to emphasize the shit out of this but we shifted focus to other things over the time so it's time to get back :p

Which is why I used to pick rexxar so much. I'm pretty good with hawk movement/positioning so I'd be showing my team what to do without even saying a thing.

Bleh, I'm talking too much. Any interesting replays to watch recently? I've been downloading a bunch but most of them aren't very insightful.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

October 01 2010 18:46 GMT

#20982

That's on you though Heen, you got to get your team to do what you say. I imagine you can predict where the game goes ~1 min from the present, you have to call the shots in game and your team has to do it. Like that's what separates the good teams from the bad, like until your team gets to a point where you don't have to talk down to them on what to do in situations, that is what you have to do.

That's an interesting DotA approach with option A...I just want to maybe get you took the "problem" differently. There are multiple ways from preventing game break down; I have been there multiple times when I pugged heavily, regardless of game state, I can be like well what the fuck am I doing kind of condition.

Prevention comes directly from the lanes and lane selection, Scout said your lanes are transparent, I don't entirely agree but you have to be flexible. How you decide to match up the lanes will snowball come mid game. If you're forced into a reactive state, you'll get burned by the standard line ups these days, 3+1+1, the 3 is a support, 1 mid game, 1 late, the 1 late will farm by themselves, and the 4 others will life miserable for your team if you decide to be reactive. So don't even run QoP cause of damage containment.

The second prevention option comes from indirect pressure, that PotM versus WR lane from one of your games is a perfect example of indirect pressure. WR is going to beat out PotM in farm and outcarry the PotM at point in the game, so in actuality, the pressure was already on before first waves met. You have to be able to free up one of your other lanes to make life hard for the WR, but you couldn't. If you can't now you are fucked heading into mid and late, because the PotM leaving means WR gets free farm, that's already an automatic positive for the other team. So even if you win a team fight, that WR will come back to make life hard again. This is also the same reason why I keep stressing Enigma and NV.cn's use of that hero, you leave Enigma in a lane by himself means you're losing a tower and he's going to have a Dagger.

Another thing is that there are timings associated with ganking, and it's not just some knee-jerk reflex that oh man, let's get a gank in. Say things like let's try to get a gank with the 2X min rune to maximize your chances, especially against heroes like SF. All the replays with SFs/WRs solos getting buried are a result of poor rune control.

Preventing game breakdown stems entirely from the lanes, I would ask your team like 3-4 mins in to see what the immediate problem areas are and devise a strategy from that. That's prevention, tell them what you think will be a problem. Sometimes crushing their supports is all you need because come mid game their lone farmer won't feel safe. Tell them how to position themselves before important fights if it's not apparent. What will make or break your and their team fights will be which skills don't get off and who is not in casting range.

Which leads to my last point, don't play blind, if you're behind and you want to turtle, find an area of the map and ward it off, as long as you have towers to TP to, any gank attempts by them will be risky.

There hasn't really been any great replays recently, some "cute" ones with people using different heroes, but nothing really hypercompetitive.

Nitrogen

United States5345 Posts

October 01 2010 19:24 GMT

#20983

On October 02 2010 00:03 Heen wrote:
AEON.sg, now known as Scythe gaming, is the one with roy. AEON.MUFC is the malaysian division lead by Winter :p They've been manhandling most teams so far.

zeus, I could look into but chen is going to take some time :p
I'm aware that DTS recently roflstomped LGD with LOH on zeus so I'll get myself updated with that.

I've been meaning to use kunkka more as he gets crazy momentum when things start going your way and it puts your opponents in a difficult position.

Basically I'm looking for heroes to control the early/mid game where to fight for towers taking place. Beastmaster, Furion, Lanaya, QoP etc. just searching for heroes to prevent our team from getting to that 'crumbling' stage.

yeah kunkka can get some pretty crazy momentum but if he does poorly earlygame he is pretty shit midgame (reminds me a little of sven in this sense)

for qop, pretty much everything judicator said is true. a finger and any other stun/nuke and she's gone and her ult has a deceivingly small aoe at times, costs a shitload of mana, and really doesn't do that much damage.

lanaya like 9/10 times she is played just gets wrecked and is terrible. the other 1/10 games she goes beyond godlike.

furion is just... i dunno. an interesting hero. i dont really have anything else to add lol

beastmaster/zeus/chen would all be pretty good. i'm prolly leaning most towards beastmaster thou because roar goes through bkb which is always nice and sf will never get a decent ult off.

hideo

Canada1641 Posts

October 01 2010 19:39 GMT

#20984

is silvercross still in the mufc lineup?

i recall that team being the most deliberately "pub-like" I've ever seen. Like they were always experimenting with troll warlord, phantom assassin AFK farming picks.

storm spirit pretty much renders qop obsolete... does everything she does better and covers more roles to boot. If you're gonna build a lineup with that type of hero in mind, it's pretty much storm or bust isn't it? And i don't think she can handle the typical sidelane solos very well at all, unless you play over-riskily aggressive.

Nitrogen

United States5345 Posts

October 01 2010 20:56 GMT

#20985

AEON.WtR[MuFc]
AEON.Nick[MuFc]
AEON.rwky[Mufc]
AEON.vINx[MuFc]
AEON.ling[MUFC]

thats their lineup according to the mufc vs mcity replays

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

October 01 2010 21:21 GMT

#20986

On October 02 2010 04:39 hideo wrote:
i don't think she can handle the typical sidelane solos very well at all, unless you play over-riskily aggressive.

? That isn't the problem with her, she handles any of the solos very well, her mid game is just weak as shit compared to the other int options. Puck officially killed her, she was dead before Storm came into the scene. WR is just the nail in the coffin.

Her ultimate needs a severe buff to make her remotely competitive to the move sets of Puck/Storm/WR/Visage. Blink is overrated and underpowered.

rabidch

United States20289 Posts

October 01 2010 21:30 GMT

#20987

On October 02 2010 04:39 hideo wrote:
is silvercross still in the mufc lineup?

i recall that team being the most deliberately "pub-like" I've ever seen. Like they were always experimenting with troll warlord, phantom assassin AFK farming picks.

storm spirit pretty much renders qop obsolete... does everything she does better and covers more roles to boot. If you're gonna build a lineup with that type of hero in mind, it's pretty much storm or bust isn't it? And i don't think she can handle the typical sidelane solos very well at all, unless you play over-riskily aggressive.

uhh when mufc plays serious they are a good team, probably as better or as good as nirvana.my when they are playing their best, but they play inconsistent shit atm even though they have the most baller player mushi

just to remind you how baller he is here is his picture

[image loading]

god he is such a pimp

btw
Nick = silvercross

power of chen dawg, warlocks also good but if you run trilane u gotta fit him in
DS is decent to great in almost every lineup these days

qop is too gimped, furion is a specialty gank but if he fails its a very bad thing, remember how SB liked to play furion and if they didnt get out of early/mid with advantage? lanaya... can be played well but too many counters if they know whats up

Nitrogen

United States5345 Posts

October 01 2010 21:40 GMT

#20988

i like how you started talking about nirvana.my just so you could post that picture again

rabidch

United States20289 Posts

October 01 2010 21:41 GMT

#20989

On October 02 2010 06:40 Nitrogen wrote:
i like how you started talking about nirvana.my just so you could post that picture again

yo dawg theres only 2 good teams in malaysia and thast mufc and nirvana.my

although nirvana has this really good player named mushi who is fucking baller

i mean just look at him

[image loading]

oh yea..
watch lgd.sgty vs chn series where zsmj plays am in game 2 i dont remember game 1
also lgd.sgty vs ch game 1 in creg, dont watch the rest unless you want to see lgd lose in game 2
nv.cn is pretty much that but more aggressive
aeon.mufc vs SB

Crimson

United States311 Posts

October 01 2010 21:56 GMT

#20990

new hon patch. anyone else having problems getting it to work?

Wala.Revolution

7582 Posts

October 01 2010 22:42 GMT

#20991

Wouldn't be surprised, almost every new patch had many problems associated with it.

Wala.Revolution

7582 Posts

October 01 2010 22:44 GMT

#20992

Also if someone could post patch notes... forums are down for me right now.

DarkOptik

452 Posts

October 01 2010 22:53 GMT

#20993

HoN changelog.

+ Show Spoiler +

Version 1.0.13
-------------
== General ==

- Darkwood Vale is now a 4v4 map
- Kill streaks of 15 or more now play the "IMMORTAL!" announcer sound / message
- Taunt effect is now more intense and shiny for the first few seconds
- Heroes will now fully turn toward their final goal even when pathing into deeply blocked areas
- Max possible charges are now ~16,000 (Fixes several issues)
- Change default lag threshold to 1000 ms from 500 ms
- Clients no longer precache the voice responses of enemy heroes
- Muting a player will /ignore that player, and unmuting will /unignore.
- Fixes the white icons when someone randoms. The random now happens before the load, not after
- Updated visual effects for some neutrals' skills
- A teammate right clicking on a shop with the courier will open there own shop window now
- Added watery grass to show where fog is blocked yet you can run through
- Added global announcer sounds anytime Kongor is slain
- New Effects for minotaur, catman, and vagabond leader
- Update Frostburn tooltip to show max of 3 charges, instead of 5
- Updated effects and sounds for several items like Blood Chalice, Puzzlebox, and Striders
- Updated sounds to several heroes

- Fix some loading bar funkiness
- Fixed game hosts not being able to assign players from Hellbourne to Legion side when right clicking their portrait. Credit to Bangerz for this fix
- Fixed the quick stats

- K:D ratio now displays two digits after the decimal (for example K:D will be "1.58" instead of "1.6")
- Fixed client not handling valid clan name tags that are 4 chars long
- Fix for a few of the public game filters (mode, num players, map name, server type) to correctly save their settings. Credit to Bangerz for this fix
- Fixes for Full Game, Advanced Game Option, and Advanced Game Mode Filters
- Fixed a potential crash on the chat server that occured when a user was not able to be resolved during a clan invite
- Cleaned up some of the error messages to properly represent the error occuring

== Mod Integration ==

- Added UI_CMD's GetFPS() and GetPing()
- Hon now natively supports the "Mod Options" mod framework
- HoN now natively supports the "Movable Frames" mod framework
* Movable Frames now supports spectator mode
* Cleanly integrated Movable Frames with Mod Options, so that the user can customize his movable frames the same way he would customize any other mod
- The Replay Stats Button mod is now built in (Credit to BASH)
* Adds a button to the Local Replays list to view the match stats
- The Enhanced Buff Icons mod is now built in
- The Improved Spectator UI mod is now built in

== Neutrals ==

Skeleton Boss
- Now a ranged unit. Damage re-adjusted
- His castable root now ministuns on impact

Neutral Ogre
- Fixed the ice shield so it doesn't apply when a melee hero casts at someone who has it on

== Items ==

Blood Chalice
- Mana returned from 150 to 100
- Now stops all regeneration effects (bottle/health potion) when used

Hellflower
- Added visual trail to silence state for some anti-juke fun.

Savage Mace
- The proc can no longer propagate to illusions

Striders
- Will no longer go on cooldown just from looking at someone, you now have to attack
- Runes of the Blight can now be used and not put the item into cooldown
- Fixed a bug causing them not to reset cooldown when they are picked up or transferred

Sword of the High
- Cost lowered from 3800 to 3400

Tablet of Command
- Added to the "nohelp" list, so you can no longer push allies who do not allow you to
- Now applies a ministun on use to the target if it is an enemy
- The target is no longer silenced or perplexed, and can turn while being pushed

Void Talisman
- Fixed so you cannot activate while magic immune (Can't waste it anymore)

== Heroes ==

Fixed the following playing through fog:
* Magmus Steam Bath
* Wildsoul's Bear Teleport
* Forsaken's Volley
* Blacksmith's Flaming Hammer
* Chronos' Timeleap

Balphagore
- Decreased str gain from 3.1 to 2.7
- Hell on Newerth
* Damage:
* (Lvl 1) 200/300/400 to 175/250/325
* (Lvl 2/3) 350,450,550 to 300/375/450
* Effects:
* (Lvl 2/3) Hell Snare from 6 seconds to 4 seconds
* (Lvl 3) Volatile Minions damage from 150/225/300 to 125/200/275
* When ultimate is in cd you no longer gain charges when enemies cast spells near you, instead you decrease the cd of your ultimate by 1 seconds per spell cast

Blood Hunter
- Clarify Blood Sense's tooltip to show that the aura increases by 1500 range per level
- Feast now leaves a lingering debuff for 1.5s when attacking a hero
* If they die in this time, Blood Hunter still gets healed.

Chipper
- Removed the 0.1s cooldown when a new charge is available for Rockets

Chronos
- Curse of Ages no longer works on buildings

Devourer
- Striders will now be 'turned off' while Decay is activated
- No longer gains strength from killing himself.

- His own illusions should no longer steal strength from him when someone dies nearby
- Lower strength gain to 1 per kill
- Ult Decay increase range rebalanced from 50 per charge/level to 30/40/50 per charge/level

Doctor Repulsor
- Starting int from 27 to 25
- Level 1 armor lowered from 5.1 to 4.1
- Magnetic Contraption still happens instantly, just a 400ms backswing. Can anim cancel the backswing like normal
- Attackspeed slow from Electric Frenzy is now -50 instead of -50%
- Tree destruction radius on Ludicrous Speed reduced from 100 to 75
- Can no longer use Ludicrous Speed while immobilized

Engineer
- Strength gain lowered from 2.3 to 2
- Turret duration from 6s to 5s
* Can only be hit a max of 5 times now (down from 8)
- Fixed a bug with Energy Field that caused units to get owned if they went invulnerable while inside

Flint Beastwood
- Money Shot's will now auto-cancel if the target is greater than 1800/2300/2800 units away from you while you're still channeling
- Crosshair on target should be visible to allies only

Forsaken Archer
- Will no longer spawn skeletons after she dies from a midair arrow

Gauntlet
- Enfeeble no longer has charges set to 0 when attacking creeps, only when hitting heroes
- Enfeeble duration incresed from 3s to 4s
- Now steals 1% of anything hit's total damage per charge and gives that damage to gauntlet for the duration of the slow/steal
- Max charges from 50 to 35
- Fixed his glove getting snagged on buildings when he threw it
- The glove throws no longer disable each other

Glacius
- Tundra Blast slow from 5s static to 3/3.5/4/4.5s

Kraken
- Reworked
- Ability 1: Torrent
* Kraken conjures a surge of seawater, drowning an enemy. Deals damage, slows, and reduces armor
* Deals 110/160/210/260 Magic damage and applies Torrent to the target for 3 seconds
* Torrent: 30% Movement Slow, -2/-3/-4/-5 Armor
- Ability 2: Tsunami Charge
* Kraken charges with great strength and speed, dragging the first enemy he encounters to sure doom. If Kraken collides with a tree, cliff, or structure, he will stop. If he is dragging someone at that time, they will get stunned.
* Charges 800 units in the targeted direction. Deals 60/90/120/150 Magic damage in a 200 AoE to all enemy units he charges past. On collision with an enemy hero, that hero is picked up and carried along with Kraken. When he hits a cliff, building, or tree he stops charging. If he is carrying an enemy hero, that hero is stunned for 1/1.33/1.66/2 seconds and takes an additional 50/100/150/200 Physical damage.
- Ability 3: Splash
* Kraken releases a devastating slam that splits the seven seas, passively dealing additional splash damage on occasion.
* Deals 30/50/70/90 bonus Magical damage to targets in a 325 radius and an additional 30/50/70/90 Magical damage to targets in a 200 radius. Attacking will reduce cooldown by 1 second.
- Ability 4: Release the Kraken!
* Every seafarer's nightmare is manifest as this hulk of watery flesh! Summons a Whirlpool that damages and pulls in enemies. If they reach the center, they are damaged and stuned by its lashing tentacles.
* After a delay of 1 second a 300 radius whirlpool spawns, dealing 40/50/70 Magic damage per second, slowing by 50%, and pulling units towards the center with a force of 100/125/150. Any enemies who reach the center are dealt 200/300/400 Magic damage and are stunned for 1.5/1.75/2 seconds. Lasts 3/4/5 seconds.

Magmus
- Steam Bath now disjoints on use
- Fixed a bug causing you to not always go to exactly where you click when using Lava Surge

Panda
- Removed the 0.1s cooldown when a new charge is available for Flurry

Rampage
- Updated tooltips to show he gains slow resistance and reveals the target while charging
- Reveal time after Charge is over lowered from 4s to 2s
- Horned Strike damage increased by 20 across all levels
- Damage from ult +5% at all levels
- When horned strike procs, 15% movespeed for 1.5s
- Charge slow resistance added instead of treewalking
- Fixed a bug with the ult that caused the target to get endless unitwalking

Sand Wraith
- Deserted range check for people being alone lowered from 400 to 300

Slither
- Removed the 0.1s cooldown when a new charge is available for Wards

Scout
- A 500ms cooldown now starts when using Vanish to avoid double activating it

Succubus
- Anyone who breaks Mesmerize and is slept themselves now are immune to damage for the first 1s

Swiftblade
- Can now turn while ulting

Torturer
- Base strength from 16 to 18

Tundra
- Fixed infinite buff bug with Cold Shoulder
- The "push-away" from Avalanche now correctly goes the full distance every time and will not push people who were behind Tundra

Vindicator
- Vindicator Illusions can no longer steal intelligence
- Global Silence is now dispellable

Voodoo Jester
- Fixed the bug causing Acid Cocktail to occasionally split into two
- Sped up Acid Cocktail from 750 to 800 initial and 450 to 600 for the bounce
- Fixed his tooltips to clarify that his casks do no damage to heroes

Witch Slayer
- Can now only cast Power Drain on units with mana

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

October 01 2010 23:33 GMT

#20994

sweet, they finally integrated my mods.
just the color-change mod left then i can officially be playing modless. har. it's coming!