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On February 28 2012 21:47 Yaki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 21:41 DrAbuse wrote:On February 28 2012 21:37 -Duderino- wrote:
Get rid of katu, nobody disrespects the Dragon and gets away without being burned. You realize hes the Korean CombatEX, though? Calm down, kid You must know nothing about the scene. Comparing Dragon to CombatEX lol. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
1) cheat
2) apologize, promise repentance
3) wait for everyone to forget
4) profit
Looks like CombatEX style to me.
But that besides the point, you guys want to crucify a guy who said some harsh things about a player with tarnished reputation. To be perfectly honest i cant stand all the fanaticism and zealotry players are getting.
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Cute move, shame Dragon will go out in the first round if you do send him tho. People don't exactly watch him for his "gosu play".
Nice to see too that people finally realises what a douchebag Katu is.
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I ain't even mad but wow nice gesture, and love the commitment. you guys have always been so great to the community <3.
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That's a pretty cool way for Playhem to make up for the unfair treatment of Dragon, good work.
There's no reason to be so overly harsh towards Katu, sure he should be reprimanded in some way but it's not like you gotta ruin his career or anything, just slap him on the wrist and hope he learns from this experience or his job could actually be in jeopardy if he doesn't take it more seriusly. Put your pitchforks away lads, sometimes people make stupid mistakes, at the end of the day what Katu did was dickish but he probably didn't have any malicious intent and just screwed up, shit happens.
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On February 28 2012 22:05 Elem wrote:
Cute move, shame Dragon will go out in the first round if you do send him tho. People don't exactly watch him for his "gosu play".
Nice to see too that people finally realises what a douchebag Katu is.
oh u;;
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Wow Ryan thats awesome of you, taking responsability of people who are representing your organisation and making ammends is really great to see. Dragon is a really fun streamer and he does his thing and to get that kind of treatment from anyone was pretty uncalled for since it wasn't anything to do with him.
I hope he takes the offer and I hope he gets insane nukes at IPL 
On a side note there is nothing wrong with playhem itself its a great service and its great to have daily events for all levels for fun and a little bit of money. I love the content that it brings to the community and its such a great idea in general. Its just a shame that the biggest amount of press they get ever was for a guy acting the maggot.
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One question: Will Dragon be allowed to watch the IPL4-Stream during his games?
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On February 28 2012 19:31 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 19:26 SolidMustard wrote:On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote:
Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened:
Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again. It's a shame you're defending your caster here. Just get rid of him, because a lot of us just don't wanna hear about him ever again, tbh Okay guys, he messed up, and I've been very critical of the caster's statements in this thread, but don't overreact. If you got fired from your job or instantly failed a class because you were late once, it certainly would not be fair. I agree that this topic shouldn't be completely overlooked and ignored, but this is Katu's job as well and he clearly wants to do well, but made a mistake. I try to think of this from a different perspective too, like what happened to Coca. He didn't realize how serious his actions were during a tournament (throwing a match to a friend), where Coca couldn't gain anything from winning, but his friend would have a chance at a Code A seed. Coca was removed from Code S and temporarily left the team house. He was not fired, but he was punished. Coca didn't realize how serious it was what he was doing, but accepted a very steep punishment once understanding of the situation. He was not let go with a slap on the wrist either. Just another way to look at the topic.
I'm pretty sure that there was no Code A reward for that tournament (I seem to remmeber an official making a statement on this shortly after it happened). It was basically meaningless for both of them. But yeah pretty much agree with everything you said.
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On February 28 2012 22:09 DrAbuse wrote:
One question: Will Dragon be allowed to watch the IPL4-Stream during his games?
God, I hope I had that report button, sometimes
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On February 28 2012 22:00 Cosmos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 21:41 DrAbuse wrote:On February 28 2012 21:37 -Duderino- wrote:
Get rid of katu, nobody disrespects the Dragon and gets away without being burned. You realize hes the Korean CombatEX, though? Calm down, kid Dragon is a troll, but he doesn't cheat and the trolling is in his gameplay, not his bm toward opponents etc.
Yes he most certainly does.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon
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On February 28 2012 22:00 Cosmos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 21:41 DrAbuse wrote:On February 28 2012 21:37 -Duderino- wrote:
Get rid of katu, nobody disrespects the Dragon and gets away without being burned. You realize hes the Korean CombatEX, though? Calm down, kid Dragon is a troll, but he doesn't cheat and the trolling is in his gameplay, not his bm toward opponents etc.
What Katu said is not completely false. Dragon was caught and admitted to cheating a very long time ago in Korea. There has been no recurrence or at least any evidence of any cheating since then.
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Dragon did cheat. And he has been working hard since then to repair his reputation. I'll also note that Slayers recruited him after he had cheated and people found out (despite what Katu said about slayers kicking him for cheating). For Dragon to have his named dragged back through the mud for no reason except a caster that feels like "trolling" chat is just disgusting behaviour.
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On February 28 2012 22:10 jianming wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 19:31 MrCash wrote:On February 28 2012 19:26 SolidMustard wrote:On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote:
Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened:
Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again. It's a shame you're defending your caster here. Just get rid of him, because a lot of us just don't wanna hear about him ever again, tbh Okay guys, he messed up, and I've been very critical of the caster's statements in this thread, but don't overreact. If you got fired from your job or instantly failed a class because you were late once, it certainly would not be fair. I agree that this topic shouldn't be completely overlooked and ignored, but this is Katu's job as well and he clearly wants to do well, but made a mistake. I try to think of this from a different perspective too, like what happened to Coca. He didn't realize how serious his actions were during a tournament (throwing a match to a friend), where Coca couldn't gain anything from winning, but his friend would have a chance at a Code A seed. Coca was removed from Code S and temporarily left the team house. He was not fired, but he was punished. Coca didn't realize how serious it was what he was doing, but accepted a very steep punishment once understanding of the situation. He was not let go with a slap on the wrist either. Just another way to look at the topic. I'm pretty sure that there was no Code A reward for that tournament (I seem to remmeber an official making a statement on this shortly after it happened). It was basically meaningless for both of them. But yeah pretty much agree with everything you said.
There was no Code A seed award, winning that tournament (the game vs Coca was not the finals), put you into another tournament, the winner of which would receive a Code A seed. So it was a very distant possibility of any award and the event was still taken very seriously.
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On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote:
So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I can understand why, but I do think this is overreacting a bit.
Yes Katu was out of line and I'm certainly not defending what he said, but the punishment doesn't really fit the crime in this case. I believe an official warning or something similar would be a better fit. He was after all a pretty good caster when he was behaving properly.
I was watching both Playhem's and Dragon's streams when things were going downhill and Dragon didn't seem to be offended at all. Although to be fair it could be that he either wasn't aware or understood what was being said about him.
But my point is that if Dragon can forgive Katu, then so should his fans be able to. At least wait for a reaction from him before making any decisions.
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On February 28 2012 22:11 Blennd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 22:00 Cosmos wrote:On February 28 2012 21:41 DrAbuse wrote:On February 28 2012 21:37 -Duderino- wrote:
Get rid of katu, nobody disrespects the Dragon and gets away without being burned. You realize hes the Korean CombatEX, though? Calm down, kid Dragon is a troll, but he doesn't cheat and the trolling is in his gameplay, not his bm toward opponents etc. Yes he most certainly did. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon
FTFY, you're welcome.
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I mean, everyone has their panties in a bunch...But the guy DID cheat. Like, that happened. He promised not to compete in anymore and was sorry for what he did.
Maybe people deserve forgiveness for their screw ups, but when you're a professional player, and you cheat, your career should be over. That should be it. If you can't be trusted to uphold the integrity of the game, why should you be awarded money or fame, ever.
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Why throw money at it instead of just punishing the person?
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United States33700 Posts
meh, don't tempt him to break his promise
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On February 28 2012 22:10 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 22:09 DrAbuse wrote:
One question: Will Dragon be allowed to watch the IPL4-Stream during his games? God, I hope I had that report button, sometimes
I have & I did report. Seriously some people-_-
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EPT
