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On May 06 2011 23:32 Jotoco wrote:
Because if he did admit, the chances of him being banned from TSL or something is pretty high.
He will never admit it, but I think his post after the match in his fanclub is admission enough, too bad mods asked him to edit it out... There is a quote of that somewhere near the 10 end pages of Idra's (locked) fanclub thread.
I think it woud be reasonable to ask for the replay and a group of independent pro-gamers analyse it and reach a veredict, then we could definately move on. I don't think it has anything to do with TL forum, but if I was a tournament organizer I would most definately ban him from my tournaments if it was a consensus that he stream cheated. From stream cheat to map hack is a very small step, IMO
Well, that's unfortunate. I guess we all have to cross our arms and wait for the ban to be lifted.
If we had the replay that'd probably go a long way to "uncovering" the mystery, and the standing evidence for Cruncher's ghosting is already pretty strong - but I don't know if there's really any point, and certainly no definitive evidence.
Oh, well.
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On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking.
Or in this case, like being caught using a maphack during the full duration of a game, and then everybody says "but there is no proof that he actually used his maphack for looking at areas where he normally couldn't see anything, we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it".
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How do people jump directly from "I had his stream open so I could see when he queued, since I wanted to play against him" to "he's a fucking cheater rable rable rable rable rable rable".
It's certainly a sad day, no more IdrA streaming for a bit, but seriously guys, why so hostile?
Not only to the guy who did nothing but play a game, but to the people trying to keep this thing under control (IE mods, keep them bans a rollin xD).....
I'm almost a little worried.....is this the kind of response we're going to start getting if IdrA loses anything?
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On May 07 2011 01:40 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking. "but there is no proof that he actually used his maphack for looking at areas where he normally couldn't see anything, we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it".
but he admitted to "stream cheating" there for how do we assume that he didn't "maphack" with the stream cheating? What you said before using the map hacks but not looking at the mini map for "drops" not actually using the stream to cheat. What is the point of that?
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On May 07 2011 01:48 N3rV[Green] wrote:
How do people jump directly from "I had his stream open so I could see when he queued, since I wanted to play against him" to "he's a fucking cheater rable rable rable rable rable rable".
He was using his main justin.tv account, so people could see he was in idra's stream not only while he was trying to snipe him, but also during the whole game, and left a few minutes after the game ended.
@the guy above me: I have no idea what you're asking. Please don't quote half a sentence, especially if it is in quotation marks.
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On May 07 2011 01:51 tGFuRy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:40 blackone wrote:On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking. we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it". but he admitted to "stream cheating" there for how do we assume that he didn't "maphack" with the stream cheating? What you said before using the map hacks but not looking at the mini map for "drops" not actually using the stream to cheat. What is the point of that?
Show me where he admitted stream cheating please. The only response i read from him was that he muted the stream, and that is not admitting stream cheating t.t
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On May 06 2011 21:47 ThatGuy89 wrote:all those people that stayed up to watch SOTG to get the chance to hear idra commentate (me being one of them) and now we've lost 2 days of that? i thouht TL was a community site? surely one of its main goals, besides giving power to people who have none in real life, is to help the community grow and to aid it in anyway? well, all those 10-15k people who watch idra stream are now gonna lose out, and all because idra called cruncher out for what he is. spoiler coming + Show Spoiler +
did anyone else lol last night when july rolled over cruncher?
Hes probbaly heard a bit of hype around cruncher, but that series must have felt like he was playing against someone with one arm or something.....
IDRA said no more streaming!!! NOT TL!!!
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chill is a smart mod, he bans the person that brings ppl to tl's site.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 07 2011 01:56 Loooui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:51 tGFuRy wrote:On May 07 2011 01:40 blackone wrote:On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking. we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it". but he admitted to "stream cheating" there for how do we assume that he didn't "maphack" with the stream cheating? What you said before using the map hacks but not looking at the mini map for "drops" not actually using the stream to cheat. What is the point of that? Show me where he admitted stream cheating please. The only response i read from him was that he muted the stream, and that is not admitting stream cheating t.t
Lets say he didn't "stream cheat" Why was he watching idras stream and trying to stream snipe him while keeping the stream up?
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On May 07 2011 02:03 tGFuRy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:56 Loooui wrote:On May 07 2011 01:51 tGFuRy wrote:On May 07 2011 01:40 blackone wrote:On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking. we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it". but he admitted to "stream cheating" there for how do we assume that he didn't "maphack" with the stream cheating? What you said before using the map hacks but not looking at the mini map for "drops" not actually using the stream to cheat. What is the point of that? Show me where he admitted stream cheating please. The only response i read from him was that he muted the stream, and that is not admitting stream cheating t.t Lets say he didn't "stream cheat" Why was he watching idras stream and trying to stream snipe him while keeping the stream up?
lol so you dont have the statement where he "admitted" cheating then? How come you lie?
Also to answer your question, like some of us posted before it is normal to have other streams up when you ladder and you mute them if you meet this player. For example it is funny to read the chat after the game or unmute as soon as the game is over to hear what the opponent says etc... It is quite common and i have done it myself.
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it will be so interesting to watch if this escalates, with the rising of new community websites and some what disgruntled teamliquideers whether or not they can afford to lose Idra and his enormous fan base, and potentially create another juggernaut competitor simultaneously.
If there ever was a time for teamliquid to slip i would have to suggest it's now, Idra in my opinion has a significant amount of leverage considering the only reason hes somewhat anchored to the site at all is because of his team
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On May 07 2011 02:09 Loooui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 02:03 tGFuRy wrote:On May 07 2011 01:56 Loooui wrote:On May 07 2011 01:51 tGFuRy wrote:On May 07 2011 01:40 blackone wrote:On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking. we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it". but he admitted to "stream cheating" there for how do we assume that he didn't "maphack" with the stream cheating? What you said before using the map hacks but not looking at the mini map for "drops" not actually using the stream to cheat. What is the point of that? Show me where he admitted stream cheating please. The only response i read from him was that he muted the stream, and that is not admitting stream cheating t.t Lets say he didn't "stream cheat" Why was he watching idras stream and trying to stream snipe him while keeping the stream up? lol so you dont have the statement where he "admitted" cheating then? How come you lie?
I'll be honest I am slightly baist, I like idra and don't like cuncher so, obviously I'm more prone to support idra. PLUS you can see Cruncher was watching idras stream and other people noted he WAS intentionally attempting to stream snipe idra.
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Calgary25998 Posts
On May 07 2011 01:40 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:21 tGFuRy wrote: Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking. Or in this case, like being caught using a maphack during the full duration of a game, and then everybody says "but there is no proof that he actually used his maphack for looking at areas where he normally couldn't see anything, we have to assume he just forgot to close the maphack program and didn't actually benefit from it".
Look, I know some of you (most) aren't from the Brood War community, but we've gone through this shit a million times before. Idra and Artosis being "100% sure" someone is a maphacker. But you can't do anything based on speculation. Sometimes methods were released and those suspected were actually hackers. But more often than not they weren't.
So you can keep in the back of your mind that you think Cruncher is a tool and a cheater, but you can't expect TL as an entity to act on it.
Funny story I'll release here: Before TSL, I used to play with Sheth a fucking lot when he was nS-g.Omni. Then he got really good and I never saw him again. Then, almost suddenly, during TSL2, he was at the top of the ladder as Chosen, taking many games off Mondragon.
I "knew" he was a hacker, because he didn't have the skill to play at Mondragon's level. He always seemed to have the right counter ready to kill Mondragon. I spent a few hours with Kennigit grinding through his replay pack looking for proof. But there was no proof. And I'm glad I never made a public comment about that because it's embarassing. Sheth (Chosen) was just that good.
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What's the point in arguing over whether cruncher was "stream cheating" or not? He openly timed his queue in front of his viewers, with the sound turned down. People are talking about second monitors etc but for all we know idra could have been doing that as well. The game itself is certainly no evidence.
On May 07 2011 02:03 hyphydragon wrote:
chill is a smart mod, he bans the person that brings ppl to tl's site.
Fine quality posters such as yourself, that is to say?
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Calgary25998 Posts
If Cruncher is caught cheating, I will obviously reverse all the action and apologize.
Also, here are all my original comments in the staff forum from when Cruncher posted his comment about "sniping":
On May 06 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:
I sent him a PM asking him to confirm. I doubt he would admit it but let's wait and see.
On May 06 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:
If he confirms, there's no discussion necessary.
On May 06 2011 07:30 Chill wrote:Business as usual. Recommend no action and warning people flaming his fanclub.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 07 2011 01:53 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:48 N3rV[Green] wrote:
How do people jump directly from "I had his stream open so I could see when he queued, since I wanted to play against him" to "he's a fucking cheater rable rable rable rable rable rable". He was using his main justin.tv account, so people could see he was in idra's stream not only while he was trying to snipe him, but also during the whole game, and left a few minutes after the game ended. @the guy above me: I have no idea what you're asking. Please don't quote half a sentence, especially if it is in quotation marks.
And he said he had the sound muted the entire time, and the only screenshot of the incident shows him watching IdrA's stream after the game with his sound muted. You may respond:
1. What if he muted it right after?
There's no proof of that. Cruncher usually pulls in anywhere from a couple hundred viewers to a thousand, and no one heard anything.
2. What if he has a second monitor to watch the games?
There's no proof of that either. What if there really was a shooter on the grassy knoll?
3. Why was his play so weird?
I don't know, but neither do you. All you have to go on is 1 VOD from IdrA. Not the replay to see what Cruncher actually did or his actual timings, and you don't know what builds they've done the past 20 times they've met. If you've competitively gamed for any amount of time, whether it's CS, Q3 or BW/SC2, you should know that "they did something fishy/they did something they shouldn't have" isn't enough to throw the book at someone. It would be so much easier to tell if there were a replay so you could look at the clock for the Roach Warren/Gateway/Cannon timings.
If this were 12 Angry Nerds, you guys would've convicted the spanish kid right off the bat and gone home.
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I do love drama. Wish I hadn't missed the game though :/
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the game was a bit meh. Idra didn't even really respond that much on stream. it's the actions following the comment that are causing this drama
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Calgary25998 Posts
On May 06 2011 23:32 Jotoco wrote:
Because if he did admit, the chances of him being banned from TSL or something is pretty high.
He will never admit it, but I think his post after the match in his fanclub is admission enough, too bad mods asked him to edit it out
Oh, well.
I never asked him to edit it out. I asked him to clarify what he meanted by "sniped" and he edited that into his post to remove ambiguity. Stop making shit up.
He kept his original post and edited in an explanation at my request. Then, later, he edited the "Sniped" part out.
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On May 07 2011 02:27 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:53 blackone wrote:On May 07 2011 01:48 N3rV[Green] wrote:
How do people jump directly from "I had his stream open so I could see when he queued, since I wanted to play against him" to "he's a fucking cheater rable rable rable rable rable rable". He was using his main justin.tv account, so people could see he was in idra's stream not only while he was trying to snipe him, but also during the whole game, and left a few minutes after the game ended. @the guy above me: I have no idea what you're asking. Please don't quote half a sentence, especially if it is in quotation marks. And he said he had the sound muted the entire time, and the only screenshot of the incident shows him watching IdrA's stream after the game with his sound muted. You may respond: 1. What if he muted it right after?There's no proof of that. Cruncher usually pulls in anywhere from a couple hundred viewers to a thousand, and no one heard anything. 2. What if he has a second monitor to watch the games?There's no proof of that either. What if there really was a shooter on the grassy knoll? 3. Why was his play so weird?I don't know, but neither do you. All you have to go on is 1 VOD from IdrA. Not the replay to see what Cruncher actually did or his actual timings, and you don't know what builds they've done the past 20 times they've met. If you've competitively gamed for any amount of time, whether it's CS, Q3 or BW/SC2, you should know that "they did something fishy/they did something they shouldn't have" isn't enough to throw the book at someone. It would be so much easier to tell if there were a replay so you could look at the clock for the Roach Warren/Gateway/Cannon timings. If this were 12 Angry Nerds, you guys would've convicted the spanish kid right off the bat and gone home.
So, if a murderer give you a non-valid proof (because his proof prove nothing), and much more things half-prove the opposite, you still defend the murderer ?
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EPT
