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On May 06 2011 21:39 Leavzou wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 21:34 Loooui wrote:On May 06 2011 21:25 Lochat wrote:On May 06 2011 21:04 Loooui wrote:On May 06 2011 20:55 Leavzou wrote:On May 06 2011 20:46 Loooui wrote:On May 06 2011 20:38 Leavzou wrote:
It's remind me when france said that the tchernobyl's toxic cloud stopped at our border... this is just bs, there is no proof about this but eveyone know that the cloud did not stopped at the border, and they just said that to no scare frenchies..
This is really freaking boring how people still defend cruncher. Everyone know that he stream cheated, but there is just no proof. Your example dosn´t make sense. I could bring up thousands of examples in which someone was accused of something and without proof people "knew" he/she did something terrible. Let´s start with the witch hunt a few hundred years ago, people "knew" they were witches didn´t they?! and that without any real proof... This is exactly as good of an example as yours, just with another twist at the end. The point is that you cannot convict someone for cheating without proof. And lol the only boring thing are those haters who scream "cheeeeeat!!!" at any point idras opponent wins. I watched idras stream the last days and i have never seen so many people act like douchebags in chat before. Take the witches example is freaking bad. There was no proof about the existence of witches, it was just assumptions based on beliefs. The fact that cruncher cheated IS possible. Imagine it's a murder case, tribunal blablabla... What is the role of the court ? Take all the elements wich says that cruncher could stream cheat and the others elements, then decide if cruncher stream cheated or not with those elements. With your method, the only murderers who should be guilty are these who made a murder under the eyes of the judge. It's just freaking pointless, and this is why tribunals exist. If this case some way were to go up in swedish court (lol!) I would be sure that cruncher never would get convicted. To get convicted for something here you have to prove without doubt that the accused person is guilty, something you already agreed on isn´t possible in this case. That's completely false. Almost nothing outside math or logic is provable "without a doubt" people simply don't understand what a justifiable belief is. Someone having gun-powder residue on their hands, owning a gun of the same model that shot someone, having a bullet missing from their gun, making multiple death threats to the person, having no alibi, having a video of their car in the area where the shooting took place, which they had no reason to be in, fingerprints and DNA at the crime scene... None of that is anything even remotely close to "proof without a doubt." The public idea of proof is so utterly mangled, inconsistent in nearly all cases, and generally incoherent. People will believe in the Loch Ness Monster due to a grainy picture before they believe someone is hacking if you have 5 video evidence replays of them doing it with the knowledge that hacking is a real occurrence amongst random SC2 players. It's just silly. Well it is actually "proven beyond reasonable doubt" pardon me. But there are reasonable doubt in this cruncher case and you should not deny that. Where is the doubt ? The only doubt is "we have no SS of cruncher with the stream non-muted while playing", wich is just impossible to get.
Oh please we have been over this so many times now.
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I love how when IdrA commentates he keeps it real and you really get a feel for not only what he's thinking but who he actually is. I can only hope he continues to commentate during his streams later on. Even if you don't like IdrA you have to respect his level of play and watching his stream while he commentates really gives you a feel for how you yourself should start analyzing the game in real time if you want to get better. Your stream will be missed in its absence!
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all those people that stayed up to watch SOTG to get the chance to hear idra commentate (me being one of them) and now we've lost 2 days of that?
i thouht TL was a community site? surely one of its main goals, besides giving power to people who have none in real life, is to help the community grow and to aid it in anyway? well, all those 10-15k people who watch idra stream are now gonna lose out, and all because idra called cruncher out for what he is.
spoiler coming
+ Show Spoiler +
did anyone else lol last night when july rolled over cruncher?
Hes probbaly heard a bit of hype around cruncher, but that series must have felt like he was playing against someone with one arm or something.....
User was warned for this post, mostly for spoiler tags, which were added
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Very good and educative stream. Unfortunately retards win =)
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On May 06 2011 21:39 Leavzou wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 21:34 Loooui wrote:On May 06 2011 21:25 Lochat wrote:On May 06 2011 21:04 Loooui wrote:On May 06 2011 20:55 Leavzou wrote:On May 06 2011 20:46 Loooui wrote:On May 06 2011 20:38 Leavzou wrote:
It's remind me when france said that the tchernobyl's toxic cloud stopped at our border... this is just bs, there is no proof about this but eveyone know that the cloud did not stopped at the border, and they just said that to no scare frenchies..
This is really freaking boring how people still defend cruncher. Everyone know that he stream cheated, but there is just no proof. Your example dosn´t make sense. I could bring up thousands of examples in which someone was accused of something and without proof people "knew" he/she did something terrible. Let´s start with the witch hunt a few hundred years ago, people "knew" they were witches didn´t they?! and that without any real proof... This is exactly as good of an example as yours, just with another twist at the end. The point is that you cannot convict someone for cheating without proof. And lol the only boring thing are those haters who scream "cheeeeeat!!!" at any point idras opponent wins. I watched idras stream the last days and i have never seen so many people act like douchebags in chat before. Take the witches example is freaking bad. There was no proof about the existence of witches, it was just assumptions based on beliefs. The fact that cruncher cheated IS possible. Imagine it's a murder case, tribunal blablabla... What is the role of the court ? Take all the elements wich says that cruncher could stream cheat and the others elements, then decide if cruncher stream cheated or not with those elements. With your method, the only murderers who should be guilty are these who made a murder under the eyes of the judge. It's just freaking pointless, and this is why tribunals exist. If this case some way were to go up in swedish court (lol!) I would be sure that cruncher never would get convicted. To get convicted for something here you have to prove without doubt that the accused person is guilty, something you already agreed on isn´t possible in this case. That's completely false. Almost nothing outside math or logic is provable "without a doubt" people simply don't understand what a justifiable belief is. Someone having gun-powder residue on their hands, owning a gun of the same model that shot someone, having a bullet missing from their gun, making multiple death threats to the person, having no alibi, having a video of their car in the area where the shooting took place, which they had no reason to be in, fingerprints and DNA at the crime scene... None of that is anything even remotely close to "proof without a doubt." The public idea of proof is so utterly mangled, inconsistent in nearly all cases, and generally incoherent. People will believe in the Loch Ness Monster due to a grainy picture before they believe someone is hacking if you have 5 video evidence replays of them doing it with the knowledge that hacking is a real occurrence amongst random SC2 players. It's just silly. Well it is actually "proven beyond reasonable doubt" pardon me. But there are reasonable doubt in this cruncher case and you should not deny that. Where is the doubt ? The only doubt is "we have no SS of cruncher with the stream non-muted while playing", wich is just impossible to get.
The problem is - try to turn the argument around. You said Idra hates Cruncher and Cruncher hates Idra. And this hate is enough reason that Cruncher would streamcheat Idra.
But wouldnt that also be enough reason for Idra to streamcheat Cruncher?
What if "Idra has this second monitor with Cruncher's stream open?" Maybe with a different account so he doesnt appear on the stream list - Did people even check if Idra wasnt on Cruncher's streamlist?
The reason of course would be to discredit Cruncher as a streamcheater, as Idra would do the exact thing which Cruncher counters perfectly.
Do I believe this scenario? No. But it has the same amount of proof as the "Cruncher cheated Idra" scenario (none).
I even think it's more likely that Cruncher streamcheated Idra - but cheating is considered as a very serious offence - and I personally would like to have proof before people are judged.
Idra/Cruncher should just release that replay - I think tons of people would sync it with the audio from Idra's commentary and people can see exactly how Cruncher would react to it (or not).
On May 06 2011 21:47 ThatGuy89 wrote:
all those people that stayed up to watch SOTG to get the chance to hear idra commentate (me being one of them) and now we've lost 2 days of that?
i thouht TL was a community site? surely one of its main goals, besides giving power to people who have none in real life, is to help the community grow and to aid it in anyway? well, all those 10-15k people who watch idra stream are now gonna lose out, and all because idra called cruncher out for what he is.
No one is stopping Idra from streaming. Only one person controls this: Idra himself.
He's the reason those 10-15k people lose out.
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On May 06 2011 21:42 Huckleuro wrote:
Excellent stream, crazy high quality SC2 play from this zerg god.
However his constant depressing drones about how bad sc2 is and how his opponents have no talent what so ever are beginning to diminish it a little. I mean come on, the opponents he was playing against were just random ladder folk.
I'd seriously hate to be so damn negative about everything in life ahahaha
"Random ladder folk" who should not be at the top of grandmasters given how sloppy their play is.
That's idras complaint, it's too easy on ladder. At least in korea idra had to work to stay in the top 25.
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and now his fan club is locked?
why isnt crunchers? hes the one that caused all this fuss by not being able to play the game without cheesing/cheating/being an overall tool
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On May 06 2011 07:48 IdrA wrote:
of course he cheated, its a ladder game who cares.
stop giving him attention. hes a waste of life the more you talk about him the longer it takes for him to go away.
User was temp banned for this post. :[
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On May 06 2011 22:04 ThatGuy89 wrote:
and now his fan club is locked?
why isnt crunchers? hes the one that caused all this fuss by not being able to play the game without cheesing/cheating/being an overall tool
I take it you have actual proof for this statement?
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On May 06 2011 22:01 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 21:42 Huckleuro wrote:
Excellent stream, crazy high quality SC2 play from this zerg god.
However his constant depressing drones about how bad sc2 is and how his opponents have no talent what so ever are beginning to diminish it a little. I mean come on, the opponents he was playing against were just random ladder folk.
I'd seriously hate to be so damn negative about everything in life ahahaha "Random ladder folk" who should not be at the top of grandmasters given how sloppy their play is. That's idras complaint, it's too easy on ladder. At least in korea idra had to work to stay in the top 25.
No. When idra queued KR ladder he often said things like, "Koreans know how to cheese well. These guys really cant play this game." He was consistently negative on that stream also.
Its cool, idra is cool, hes amazing at this game. Game on.
His negativity towards the game/ anything that isnt zerg or himself is kinda annoying though.
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I so like the header from the Mods! :D Guys, I really appreciate your sense of humor 
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On May 06 2011 22:39 Drteeth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 22:04 ThatGuy89 wrote:
and now his fan club is locked?
why isnt crunchers? hes the one that caused all this fuss by not being able to play the game without cheesing/cheating/being an overall tool I take it you have actual proof for this statement?
yea i got my proof when cruncher said he did it.......
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On May 06 2011 22:39 Drteeth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 22:04 ThatGuy89 wrote:
and now his fan club is locked?
why isnt crunchers? hes the one that caused all this fuss by not being able to play the game without cheesing/cheating/being an overall tool I take it you have actual proof for this statement?
Well, Cruncher said himself that he has streamcheated before, so there's precedent, and then there's this:
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/1Tpw)
I think, if Cruncher did streamcheat, it was very impolite. It's too bad people take advantage of IdrA's short fuse to tease him, and now he's taking it out on the people who watch his stream. A lot could be gained if everyone just manned up.
Alternatively, what if Cruncher apologized? Said: "IdrA, I'm sorry, I streamcheated, it was wrong, I won't do it again."
Then the ball would be in IdrA's court, forcing a polite response. Think of it as going an aggressive build that would make IdrA overproduce zerglings... except they would be zerglings of love and mutual respect. Or something.
Politeness could go a long way here, I think, but I may be overestimating the capacities of the adult population of the SC2 progaming scene.
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On May 06 2011 23:09 Crezth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 22:39 Drteeth wrote:On May 06 2011 22:04 ThatGuy89 wrote:
and now his fan club is locked?
why isnt crunchers? hes the one that caused all this fuss by not being able to play the game without cheesing/cheating/being an overall tool I take it you have actual proof for this statement? Well, Cruncher said himself that he has streamcheated before, so there's precedent, and then there's this: I think, if Cruncher did streamcheat, it was very impolite. It's too bad people take advantage of IdrA's short fuse to tease him, and now he's taking it out on the people who watch his stream. A lot could be gained if everyone just manned up. Alternatively, what if Cruncher apologized? Said: "IdrA, I'm sorry, I streamcheated, it was wrong, I won't do it again." Then the ball would be in IdrA's court, forcing a polite response. Think of it as going an aggressive build that would make IdrA overproduce zerglings... except they would be zerglings of love and mutual respect. Or something. Politeness could go a long way here, I think, but I may be overestimating the capacities of the adult population of the SC2 progaming scene.
Get off your high horse, adults do not act like that AT ALL.
You are thinking of a very small minority of people.
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On May 06 2011 23:15 Mailing wrote:
Get off your high horse, adults do not act like that AT ALL.
You are thinking of a very small minority of people.
I'm on no high horse, I assure you, as I am no more a paragon of maturity than your average person. I'm simply offering a potential solution to defuse the situation.
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On May 06 2011 23:09 Crezth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 22:39 Drteeth wrote:On May 06 2011 22:04 ThatGuy89 wrote:
and now his fan club is locked?
why isnt crunchers? hes the one that caused all this fuss by not being able to play the game without cheesing/cheating/being an overall tool I take it you have actual proof for this statement? Well, Cruncher said himself that he has streamcheated before, so there's precedent, and then there's this: I think, if Cruncher did streamcheat, it was very impolite. It's too bad people take advantage of IdrA's short fuse to tease him, and now he's taking it out on the people who watch his stream. A lot could be gained if everyone just manned up. Alternatively, what if Cruncher apologized? Said: "IdrA, I'm sorry, I streamcheated, it was wrong, I won't do it again." Then the ball would be in IdrA's court, forcing a polite response. Think of it as going an aggressive build that would make IdrA overproduce zerglings... except they would be zerglings of love and mutual respect. Or something. Politeness could go a long way here, I think, but I may be overestimating the capacities of the adult population of the SC2 progaming scene.
Because if he did admit, the chances of him being banned from TSL or something is pretty high.
He will never admit it, but I think his post after the match in his fanclub is admission enough, too bad mods asked him to edit it out... There is a quote of that somewhere near the 10 end pages of Idra's (locked) fanclub thread.
I think it woud be reasonable to ask for the replay and a group of independent pro-gamers analyse it and reach a veredict, then we could definately move on. I don't think it has anything to do with TL forum, but if I was a tournament organizer I would most definately ban him from my tournaments if it was a consensus that he stream cheated. From stream cheat to map hack is a very small step, IMO
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Yes Idra has a temper.. we can all agree, maybe thats why he so many people like him, hes unique and probly one of the best to watch on stream, but lets be real, idra wouldnt say this to crunchers face, and infact its insulting he would say stuff like that, there is BM, and then there is being disrespectful, imo he deserves the ban, hes not gunna learn from it obviously,
im still a fan... but sometimes enough is enough
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If Cruncher did stream cheat that makes me dislike him that much more. He bmed IdrA in TSL3 for idra claiming he was going "roll him" but who cares. Stream cheating is fucking retarded. That is like maphacking.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
Well I wouldn't be surprised if cruncher did indeed stream ghost. he has been known for his shady behavior in the past playing warcraft3. But like IdrA said lets not dwell over ladder games !!!
Edit: Plus stop all the chill hating, he is just doing his job for the site! - I know he is a closet idrA fanboy too 
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EPT
