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On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad
6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand.
What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings.
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On August 08 2011 05:18 walklightwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad Yeah, that's probably the most bored I've been watching IdrA stream. Not surprised he bugged out. What's the point of playing games like that over and over?
actually i think it is good for him (even though it is annoying), what will happen if he will encounter the same build in a tournament or an impotant match ? better learn to counter it on an unimportant match than in a tournament.
i really dont care even a bit if he loses on the ladder, all the cheese he meet there might even help him in tournaments and such, you only learn when you lose, not when you win.
what you guys think ?
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On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings.
6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is.
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On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is.
That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well.
The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think.
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On August 08 2011 05:37 SnetteL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is. That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well. The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think.
I think that's what he meant - that's like saying 4gate isn't all-in: I'm sure there are builds with 4 gates that aren't all-in, but 4gate typically refers to the 1 gas build off one base.
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On August 08 2011 05:39 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:37 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is. That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well. The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think. I think that's what he meant - that's like saying 4gate isn't all-in: I'm sure there are builds with 4 gates that aren't all-in, but 4gate typically refers to the 1 gas build off one base.
Never mind, i was wrong, I don't think 6 gates are ever ment to transition into something.
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On August 08 2011 05:59 SnetteL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:39 FairForever wrote:On August 08 2011 05:37 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is. That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well. The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think. I think that's what he meant - that's like saying 4gate isn't all-in: I'm sure there are builds with 4 gates that aren't all-in, but 4gate typically refers to the 1 gas build off one base. Never mind, i was wrong, I don't think 6 gates are ever ment to transition into something.
I can't tell if this is sarcastic or...
You can transition out of a 6 gate, but if Zerg catches wind and defends it with minimal damage, the Zerg is definitely ahead as he can easily get spire out before collosus get out in full force, or get infestors to counter mass gateway play.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
6gate was made as a timing attack to kill zergs that went for mutas ages ago when mutas were considered imba cuz protosses were too dumb to know how to defend it. Tyler did it vs idra in that showmatch they did... but it turns out making a ton of units and attacking is pretty good anyway and an easy way to win without skill
and yeah, hwangsin is an all in player. there is a reason he left his korean teams, he didn't want to play the game properly
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On August 08 2011 05:24 damod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:18 walklightwhat wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad Yeah, that's probably the most bored I've been watching IdrA stream. Not surprised he bugged out. What's the point of playing games like that over and over? actually i think it is good for him (even though it is annoying), what will happen if he will encounter the same build in a tournament or an impotant match ? better learn to counter it on an unimportant match than in a tournament. i really dont care even a bit if he loses on the ladder, all the cheese he meet there might even help him in tournaments and such, you only learn when you lose, not when you win. what you guys think ?
It's the proper way to practice.
I mean, how many times has Nestea faced 2 rax rush? I bet there's been a day where the coach goes up and says 'MVP, Nestea, I want bunker rush for the next three hours, go! Report back what you learn', and that's their day. They bunker rush and practice ways to counter and make it more efficient.
Similarly, I'm pretty sure they had a time where MVP was BFH rushing Nestea until Nestea could easily counter it. Lots of people noted MVP didn't even try BFH against DRG, and assume it's because he's been roflstomped by Nestea while trying it.
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On August 08 2011 06:29 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:59 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:39 FairForever wrote:On August 08 2011 05:37 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is. That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well. The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think. I think that's what he meant - that's like saying 4gate isn't all-in: I'm sure there are builds with 4 gates that aren't all-in, but 4gate typically refers to the 1 gas build off one base. Never mind, i was wrong, I don't think 6 gates are ever ment to transition into something. I can't tell if this is sarcastic or... You can transition out of a 6 gate, but if Zerg catches wind and defends it with minimal damage, the Zerg is definitely ahead as he can easily get spire out before collosus get out in full force, or get infestors to counter mass gateway play.
No, it's not sarcastic, IMO you should always admit when you're wrong when you know it yourselve, that's the point of having a dicsussion  .
I thought about it and when people say 6 gate, it means the protoss will have made 6 gateways before anything else significant. At best he will have +1. This means that he will be quite behind in tech.
Maybe there's some economic 6 gate pressure into fast 3d but I haven't seen it yet. If you would go 6 gate into tech that would just delay your tech for no reason, making it a worse build than others.
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On August 08 2011 07:35 SnetteL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:29 CeriseCherries wrote:On August 08 2011 05:59 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:39 FairForever wrote:On August 08 2011 05:37 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is. That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well. The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think. I think that's what he meant - that's like saying 4gate isn't all-in: I'm sure there are builds with 4 gates that aren't all-in, but 4gate typically refers to the 1 gas build off one base. Never mind, i was wrong, I don't think 6 gates are ever ment to transition into something. I can't tell if this is sarcastic or... You can transition out of a 6 gate, but if Zerg catches wind and defends it with minimal damage, the Zerg is definitely ahead as he can easily get spire out before collosus get out in full force, or get infestors to counter mass gateway play. No, it's not sarcastic, IMO you should always admit when you're wrong when you know it yourselve, that's the point of having a dicsussion . I thought about it and when people say 6 gate, it means the protoss will have made 6 gateways before anything else significant. At best he will have +1. This means that he will be quite behind in tech. Maybe there's some economic 6 gate pressure into fast 3d but I haven't seen it yet. If you would go 6 gate into tech that would just delay your tech for no reason, making it a worse build than others.
there is a 6 gate build that is a soild build
usually you make 4 gates off of 2 base then tech but if you know that your opponent is committing to roach ling then you can make 6 gates plus tech instead of just 4
it makes your expansion a little behind but if he's allining you then it's a good thing
the point is that most toss's dont do that build they do the make 6 gates asap cut probes all in which is what hwangsin does
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I'm fairly certain dimaga is one of few people idra has a lot of respect for, he certainly wasn't bashing him.
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IdrA actually does interact with his viewers sometimes. He chatted with us during Assembly finals for a while.
He's no crowd pleaser and he's no Destiny, so if you don't like him, that's fine. He doesn't care.
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On August 08 2011 07:58 Carush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 07:35 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 06:29 CeriseCherries wrote:On August 08 2011 05:59 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:39 FairForever wrote:On August 08 2011 05:37 SnetteL wrote:On August 08 2011 05:27 Micket wrote:On August 08 2011 05:23 Kluey wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad 6 gate isn't an ALL in. If you don't do damage, you can fall back and expand. What do you want protoss to do? Zerg players are always like this... Whatever we do we get bashed for being cheesy. There's little ways a protoss can harass and against Zerg there's not that many timings. 6 gate IS an all in, unless you think you can defend your 3rd base from roach ling infestor without any tech at all. Trust me, you are not going to get colossi or HT for a very long time if you commit to a 6 gate. And if you are going to tech or expand behind pressure, you won't be making stuff off 6 gates. 3 gate pressure is not all in. 6 gates is. That is such a dumb statement. Everything depends on the timing. I bet you there are economic 6 gates made to pressure and gather scouting info as well. The 6 gate which stops around 46 probes is all in, i think. I think that's what he meant - that's like saying 4gate isn't all-in: I'm sure there are builds with 4 gates that aren't all-in, but 4gate typically refers to the 1 gas build off one base. Never mind, i was wrong, I don't think 6 gates are ever ment to transition into something. I can't tell if this is sarcastic or... You can transition out of a 6 gate, but if Zerg catches wind and defends it with minimal damage, the Zerg is definitely ahead as he can easily get spire out before collosus get out in full force, or get infestors to counter mass gateway play. No, it's not sarcastic, IMO you should always admit when you're wrong when you know it yourselve, that's the point of having a dicsussion . I thought about it and when people say 6 gate, it means the protoss will have made 6 gateways before anything else significant. At best he will have +1. This means that he will be quite behind in tech. Maybe there's some economic 6 gate pressure into fast 3d but I haven't seen it yet. If you would go 6 gate into tech that would just delay your tech for no reason, making it a worse build than others. there is a 6 gate build that is a soild build usually you make 4 gates off of 2 base then tech but if you know that your opponent is committing to roach ling then you can make 6 gates plus tech instead of just 4 it makes your expansion a little behind but if he's allining you then it's a good thing the point is that most toss's dont do that build they do the make 6 gates asap cut probes all in which is what hwangsin does
Yes but you wouldn't refer to that build as 6 gate. You would say something like 6 gate blink stalker or 6 gate robo. There would be a reference to the chosen tech path.
As someone pointed out to me, 6 gate refers to 6 gates without anything.
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On August 08 2011 08:10 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm fairly certain dimaga is one of few people idra has a lot of respect for, he certainly wasn't bashing him.
idra said somewhere i don't remember that dimaga is a really good zerg who sells himself short by having these moments where he just goes all in way too much for a period of time, which i would agree with
and LOL 6 gate is all-in you guys. it's like you guys don't even understand what constitutes all-in. it's when you build so many production buildings for units that to actually do anything else would mean you have to cut production of units for a long period of time. you can do something like expand with 1-2 gates for sentries, build a council/archive for archon/chargelot and have 6 gates with that with left over economy to expand eventually. that's not what people call 6 gates, and you're just being stubborn to not admit that.
that's not nearly the same thing as 6 gates for stalker/zealot/sentry asap after saturating 2 bases to a specific amount. that is 6 gate, and that is all in because stalker/zealot/sentry is too bulky at that level of economy to transition out of without being highly inefficient with your production
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oh starcraft
"you're not skilled unless you get to 200/200 and you let me get to 200/200"
joke league status
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I'm just gonna delete this.
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On August 08 2011 05:24 damod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:18 walklightwhat wrote:On August 08 2011 05:10 Carush wrote:On August 08 2011 05:09 Micket wrote:
Man, PvZ is so boring to watch if the Protoss just does 2 base all ins. Idra went 2-2 against Hwangsin (not counting the close positions insta quit) and the games just felt really boring, being one sided in either way. No wonder Protoss players are doing so bad in Korea if the only innovation they can think of is to kill Zerg with an all in. We certainly won't see an MC vs Sen if Protoss continues to play like this.
Before, it was deathball, now its 2 base all in. that's just hwangsin all he does is all in i'm dead serious about this i've played him once and i watched all his reps from that first tlopen he played 4 gate 7 gate blink 6 gate nexus cancel that's ALL he does it's fucking sad Yeah, that's probably the most bored I've been watching IdrA stream. Not surprised he bugged out. What's the point of playing games like that over and over? actually i think it is good for him (even though it is annoying), what will happen if he will encounter the same build in a tournament or an impotant match ? better learn to counter it on an unimportant match than in a tournament. i really dont care even a bit if he loses on the ladder, all the cheese he meet there might even help him in tournaments and such, you only learn when you lose, not when you win. what you guys think ? I agree with you. NesTea is even harder to cheese now, because it was basically the only way he could lose. So he learned from this, and became better, and harder to beat.
Our losses should tell us where we need to improve. The sooner we see our shortcomings the better, and the sooner we do something about it the better. Wins will not grant us many clues of our shortcomings.
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On August 08 2011 08:10 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm fairly certain dimaga is one of few people idra has a lot of respect for, he certainly wasn't bashing him.
There's a picture of a younger him and Dimaga with Dimaga's arm around him holding some massive beer jug.
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Once again idra and sheth didn't bash mana and dimaga! They simply stated that assembly wouldnt have any koreans on the top and that it was a easier tournament!
They then ranted about mana's PvZ being bad and it is (atleast by watching mana's PvT wich is actually probably the best in europe!)! Mana is a excellent player taking out the big names he did thorzain, nada, kas etc.. but his PvZ is not that good!
idra respects dimaga and mana but doesnt credit mana for his PvZ even stating that he won against him because mana tried to cheese and he would have lost if mana turtled a bit!
Dimaga top3 zerg eu took that championship fair and square against top3 protoss in europe!
Idra says and does stupid shit but don't bash the guy for what he didn't do!
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EPT
